Difference between a Tajik and a Pashtun

[sterge]

i think Scythians mixing and raping of afghan ancient natives created Pashtunes. and Aryans mixing and raping of afghan ancient natives created Tajiks. this is main difference between pashtunes and tajiks.

Most Afghan Pashtuns(Durrani & Ghilzai) most likely have 30-45% steppe ancestry. Many Afghan Tajiks would be pretty similar to Afghan Pashtuns as well. DUH

There was more "rape" in Hindustani areas as genetic admixture results shows than in Afghanistan.

[sterge]

[QUOTE=Afghanfootball;800822]

any idea who was in AFG before Aryan migration and if they play a role in Pashtun/Tajik genetics.

The Neolithic farmers similar to those found in Iran inhabited Afghanistan. The Near east had two Neolithic revolutions: one led by Levantine/Anatolian farmers (Similar stock) that migrated to Europe and the other wave by Farmers from Iran that populated/migrated to South central Asia and south Asia. Iran Neolithic farmers and Anatolian farmers were pretty distinct populations, predating that Afghanistan and much of south Asia was most likely inhabited by hunter gatherers similar to the ones found in Huto caves (Caspian region) with a possible extra south Asian affinity.

Also Tajiks and Pashtuns are related genetically due to the fact that we are descendants of the people of Ariana. Tajiks mostly being descendants of Sogdians and Bactrians while Pashtuns are most likely descendants of Arachosians and Hepthalites+Kushan.

There is no evidence on that topic. Tajiks could be as Hepthalites+ Khushans as Pashtuns. Ancient times definitely had fewer people and the genetic evidence portrays a picture: the descendants of those people are found from Europe to parts of India, i.e the “Aryans”

[sterge]

Also in medieval times the suleiman mts (from Helmand to Indus) was called Afghanistan/Roh and that is pretty much identical to ancient Arachosia. Not to mention their inhabitants were Pactyans.

Any source?
All folklore points towards Ghor area as the Pashtun 'homeland'.

[sterge]

First before I say this I just want to say that I too believe Ghor was inhabited by Pashtuns atleast partly but

The Rise of the Indo-Afghan Empire: C. 171-178 - Jos J. L. Gommans - Google Books

"We travelled on to Kabul, formerly a vast town, the site of which is now occupied by a village inhabited by a tribe of Persians called Afghans. They hold mountains and defiles and possess considerable strength, and are mostly highwaymen. Their principal mountain is called Kuh Sulayman. It is told that the prophet Sulayman [Solomon] ascended this mountain and having looked out over India, which was then covered with darkness, returned without entering it."[18]

—Ibn Battuta, 1333

Ah, you referred to “Afghanistan” this term itself has dubious etymological history imo. IIRC, the Mughals mentioned Afghanistan -16th century, land between Xhorasan and Kabul, Ferishta-historian mentioned Afghanistan in the 16th century as well.

Off my memory:
The etymology behind “Afghan” roots to Avestan/Sanskrit word for horse Aspa, Pashto- ‘Aas’. Ashvakas (horse-riders) probably became Afghana! Also, Shapur I of the Sassanids in 3rd century mentioned a tribe called “Abgan”. There are many theories behind it.

Ibn Battuta arrived to the region in the 1333. Pashtuns probably moved there in earlier time. The Sulaiman Mountains don’t cover the area between Helmand and Indus. Ibn Battuta didn’t refer to those lands as Afghanistan.

Somethin' crae:



Literature of Travel and Exploration: A to F - Jennifer Speake - Google Books

[Samandri]

Any source?
All folklore points towards Ghor area as the Pashtun 'homeland'.

Ghar (i.e Qais Ghar) has been mispronounced as "Ghor".....in original Persian manuscripts the word is غر.... some authors thought it has "paish' on it and is "Ghur", but its Ghar. So in folklore Qais Abdul Rasheed arrived to "Ghar" i.e Sulieman mountains.....their country in medieval sources is called "Roh" which means mountains but it was not confined to mountainous tracts and entire Pashtun belt was called "Roh" which has also been called 'Afghanistan'

[sterge]

Ghar (i.e Qais Ghar) has been mispronounced as "Ghor".....in original Persian manuscripts the word is غر.... some authors thought it has "paish' on it and is "Ghur", but its Ghar. So in folklore Qais Abdul Rasheed arrived to "Ghar" i.e Sulieman mountains.....their country in medieval sources is called "Roh" which means mountains but it was not confined to mountainous tracts and entire Pashtun belt was called "Roh" which has also been called 'Afghanistan'

a'ite, that's the folklore mostly and I respect that effort but personally I'd rather follow concrete evidence like genetics(haplogroups, IBD runs ...), linguistics, etc. and over time, we'd figure out the history of our people.

Cheers.

[Samandri]

a'ite, that's the folklore mostly and I respect that effort but personally I'd rather follow concrete evidence like genetics(haplogroups, IBD runs ...), linguistics, etc. and over time, we'd figure out the history of our people.

Cheers.

You were claiming "All folklore points towards Ghor area as the Pashtun 'homeland" ......i merely corrected your that claim without context of ongoing discussion. Qais is legend but my description of 'Roh" is not folklore , its documented history....and in the absence of documented and epigraphical history, any attempt by you to weave the very ancient history of Pashtuns through haplogroups etc, would only give you some clues about origin but not "concrete history", would be merely speculation and conjecture. Lets not get carried away

You are saying that Ibn-i-Batuta did not mention any region by name of Afghanistan, but earlier source "Tarikh-i-nama-Herat" has devoted 16 chapters to Afghanistan in which it is roughly the region between Kandahar and river Indus. From Ibn-i-Batuta description it appears that even in early 14th century, Sulieman mountains has legendary status and is considered core of Pashtun homeland.

[sterge]

You were claiming "All folklore points towards Ghor area as the Pashtun 'homeland" ......i merely corrected your that claim without context of ongoing discussion. Qais is legend but my description of 'Roh" is not folklore , its documented history....and in the absence of documented and epigraphical history, any attempt by you to weave the very ancient history of Pashtuns through haplogroups etc, would only give you some clues about origin but not "concrete history", would be merely speculation and conjecture. Lets not get carried away

You are saying that Ibn-i-Batuta did not mention any region by name of Afghanistan, but earlier source "Tarikh-i-nama-Herat" has devoted 16 chapters to Afghanistan in which it is roughly the region between Kandahar and river Indus. From Ibn-i-Batuta description it appears that even in early 14th century, Sulieman mountains has legendary status and is considered core of Pashtun homeland.

Dude, When did I claim anything? I was asking questions, I guess (?) means a claim eh.
I am not a trained historian nor an armchair historian. MEH

Yes, 'I WAS SAYING', twas my opinion based on my knowledge on Ibn Battuta. MIND YOU THIS AIN'T A CONTEST
SHARING/ASKING for information =/= claiming information. jeez

[sterge]

I have an old Persian (translated to english) book which states that the legend goes we migrated from GHOR to the Kasi GHAR.

Cool, do you have access to the original text? I have issues with translated books.

[Samandri]

Dude, When did I claim anything? I was asking questions, I guess (?) means a claim eh.
I am not a trained historian nor an armchair historian. MEH

Yes, 'I WAS SAYING', twas my opinion based on my knowledge on Ibn Battuta. MIND YOU THIS AIN'T A CONTEST
SHARING/ASKING for information =/= claiming information. jeez

Calm down , why you are feeling so offended and irritated? i merely corrected your mistake with no malice involved , keep your Meh and jeez in your pocket.

[Samandri]

Another Afghan source of the same period, "Afsana-i-Shahan" says "there lived in Roh on the banks of the river Gomal all the three brothers , Batani, Sarbini and Ghurghusti, who were the sons of the Afghans. The eldest of them was Batani and he was also chief among the brothers..."

Gomal river flows through Suleiman mountains

[sterge]

Calm down , why you are feeling so offended and irritated? i merely corrected your mistake with no malice involved , keep your Meh and jeez in your pocket.

Why should I? You've accused me twice now, I'd rather make that happen in reality. I have every right to offer an opinion in the way I'd want to without insulting as per the forum rules.

How are you even concluding that I was offended or irritated?

Anyway, not gonna take you or your posts seriously anymore. Anyone who is unable to take on questions without answering with a subliminal ad-homenien response because they sense insecurity cannot be taken seriously PERIOD

[Win Butler]

Tajiks have Kushan and Hephthalite ancestry too...the Hephthalites ruled areas like Khuttal in southern Tajikistan, Balkh, Badakhshan, etc. There is even a region/district in Afghan Badakhshan known as "Yaftal" which is the Persian word for Hephthalite. Tajiks from there are known as "Yaftali." The Kushan capital was in Parwan and once they were overthrown by the Hephthalites some Kushan elites sought refuge in Panjsher.

By the time Islam arrived Bactria/Tukharistan had expanded to encompass parts of central and northeast Afghanistan thanks to the Kushans, Hephthalites and Kidarites.




Arezou Azad, Sacred Landscape in Medieval Afghanistan: Revisiting the Faḍāʾil-i Balkh, p. 74.

[sterge]

Tajiks have Kushan and Hephthalite ancestry too...the Hephthalites ruled areas like Khuttal in southern Tajikistan, Balkh, Badakhshan, etc. There is even a region/district in Afghan Badakhshan known as "Yaftal" which is the Persian word for Hephthalite. Tajiks from there are known as "Yaftali." The Kushan capital was in Parwan and once they were overthrown by the Hephthalites some Kushan elites sought refuge in Panjsher.

By the time Islam arrived Bactria/Tukharistan had expanded to encompass parts of central and northeast Afghanistan thanks to the Kushans, Hephthalites and Kidarites.




Arezou Azad, Sacred Landscape in Medieval Afghanistan: Revisiting the Faḍāʾil-i Balkh, p. 74.

Now didn't I notice Pashtun and Tajik bashing on this thread? So, you agree Panjshiris are lost Pashtuns
at least genetically, save the koolture.

[Win Butler]

Now didn't I notice Pashtun and Tajik bashing on this thread? So, you agree Panjshiris are lost Pashtuns
at least genetically, save the koolture.

Well yeah it makes sense that Tajiks from Badakhshan, Takhar, Panjsher, etc. have shared ancestry with Pashtuns. Pashtuns don't have a monopoly over these ancient groups (like Kushans) though and the inhabitants of those areas weren't part of the Pashtun tribal system. If more Tajiks from these localities were tested you could flip the script and say Pashtuns are lost Badakhshis. There is also an element of Samarqandi and Bukhari ancestry in these areas which Pashtuns lack.

Look at that excerpt I posted. By the medieval period those localities were distinct from Pashtun regions. Asadi Tusi's Loghat-e-Furs, the oldest existing New Persian dictionary, includes poems by poets from all those areas. Rudaki, Makki Panjhiri, Unsuri Balkhi, etc.