Proof that Punjabis feel inferior to Pashtuns and pretend to be "Pathans"

[Firdousi]

Brother the reason I doubt you're nationality is because real afghani can't stay civil for more then 2 posts.

Greetings!

Wow, thanks for the compliment, baiyan! I really appreciate it!

Well all the credit goes to my parents. Both are pretty educated people. And since I am from Herat I must say that Heratis value and appreciate good manners and education. After all our Persian culture has educated many peoples all over the region. Just look at your own country: Pakistan is a Persian name. Your national anthem is Persian. Your national poet, Muhammad Iqbal (one of my favorites BTW) used to recite poems in Persian. My ancestors brought Islam to yours. Many Pakistanis even claim to hail from Persian cities such as Isfahan, Bukhara, Samarkand and so on. Your national language, Urdu, is a mix of Hindi and Farsi and your script/grammar/alphabet is Nastaliq, pure Persian style (Nastaliq is originally from my hometown, Herat jaan!!!). So I guess you should thanks us a lot because without us you wouldn't have an identity to be proud of.

Take care.

[Firdousi]

Calm your tits please. We are on the same side. It is nothing to do with racism. It is just plain and simple science. Understand that before opening your mouth against your pure ruler.

Greetings!

Thank you brother I must disagree. We are not on the same side. Alhamdulillah we both are proud Afghans but I am not a racist. Actually I dislike it pretty much. Nor do I care so much about gens and stuff like that. So I am sorry but we can not be friends.

Manana wrora.

[Samandri]

Greetings!

My ancestors brought Islam to yours.

Which ancestors?........tell us the names of some preachers from Herat who preached Islam to Punjab.

[Samandri]

I think misery awaits both of us brother. Sometimes you Islamized Hindus forget that despite your nukes Pakistan is a least developed country. After 40 years of war and we have almost the same Human Development rate. Actually many places from Afghanistan are much better than Pakistan. I mean Herat or Mazar must be like two centuries ahead of any Pakistani city. Leaving aside the matter of "cleanliness" a term that most of Pakistanis hate to death.

But I am confident, brother. With Iran and India gaining momentum and Pakistan being isolated Afghanistan will be the main benefit.

Herat is a very backward city. Your country is in "mud age", and i am not saying this as an insult, its a fact.....just because some modern looking buildings were built during American occupation, doesnt mean the country has made progress.

[Firdousi]

Herat is a very backward city. Your country is in "mud age", and i am not saying this as an insult, its a fact.....just because some modern looking buildings were built during American occupation, doesnt mean the country has made progress.

Greetings, bro!

Not really brother. Actually Herat is a pretty "developed" city. According to the regional standards. Most of the roads are well paved, streets are cleaned on a daily basis, we got good hospitals, schools and universities, security is much better than any other place in Afghanistan (except may be Balkh. Not a fan of Atta at all but the guy is doing a good job in there). We got a growing civil society. There is almost no ruins despite being carpet bombed by URSS. Most of the buildings are not "mud houses". Heratis are traders and businessmen. We got the best carpets, the best saffron in the world, the best dry fruits, the highest rates of trade in the country. And honestly brother we are the most tolerant and educated people in this country. There is a lot of Pashtuns and Hazaras in Herat and they have no problems here. Just look at the Safi family (owners of Safi Airways): they are Persianspeaker Pashtuns and they are well integrated into our society. No suicide bombs, no drug dealing.. and so on. We have improved a lot in the past 15 years. There is a long way to go but I am confident.

I use to visite our beloved Afghanistan very often and I must say Heratis enjoy the highest living standards in the country. We are not troublemakers, nor qaumparast, nor fascists. We don't care about politics. We just want to live in peace. Thats why Herat is centuries ahead of any Pashtun province of the country (I REPEAT THERE IS A HUGE PERSIANSPEAKERPASHTUN COMMUNITY IN HERAT AND THEY ARE AS HERATI AS A TAJIK!!!). Its pretty obvious you have never been to Herat. But I hope some of the members on this forum can tell a bit more about us!

[Firdousi]

Which ancestors?........tell us the names of some preachers from Herat who preached Islam to Punjab.

Well Ghorids were Tajiks from Western Afghanistan. Ghaznawids were Persianized Turks. Same thing goes for Moguls. Even many Pashtun dynasties such as Lodis adopted Persian as their national language. Most of Indians and Pakistanis are Sunni Hanafis. Did you know that Abu Hanifa was a Tajik from Kabul? Actually everything in Islam is Persian: Abu Hanifa, Ghazzali, Imam Bukhara, Termidhi, Tabari, Salman al Farsi, Abu Dawood,.. and so on.


The Chishti Order is known for its emphasis on love, tolerance, and openness.[1]

The Chishti Order is primarily followed in Afghanistan and South Asia. It was the first of the four main Sufi orders (Chishti, Qadiriyya, Suhrawardiyya and Naqshbandi) to be established in this region. Moinuddin Chishti introduced the Chishti Order in Lahore (Punjab) and Ajmer (Rajasthan), sometime in the middle of the 12th century CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chishti_Order

I could go on, brother, but I think I made my point. Just do some more research about the Indo-Persian culture. There is a lot of info about Persian contributions to India.

[Firdousi]

Which ancestors?........tell us the names of some preachers from Herat who preached Islam to Punjab.

"The work of Iranians can be seen in every field of cultural endeavor, including Arabic poetry, to which poets of Iranian origin composing their poems in Arabic made a very significant contribution. In a sense, Iranian Islam is a second advent of Islam itself, a new Islam sometimes referred to as Islam-i Ajam. It was this Persian Islam, rather than the original Arab Islam, that was brought to new areas and new peoples: to the Turks, first in Central Asia and then in the Middle East in the country which came to be called Turkey, and of course to India. The Ottoman Turks brought a form of Iranian civilization to the walls of Vienna. [...] By the time of the great Mongol invasions of the thirteenth century, Iranian Islam had become not only an important component; it had become a dominant element in Islam itself, and for several centuries the main centers of Islamic have the power and civilization were in countries that were, if not Iranian, at least marked by Iranian civilization. [...] The center of the Islamic world was under Turkish and Persian states, both shaped by Iranian culture. [...] The major centers of Islam in the late medieval and early modern periods, the centers of both political and cultural power, such as India, Central Asia, Iran, Turkey, were all part of this Iranian civilization. Although much of it spoke various forms of Turkish, as well as other local languages, their classical and cultural language was Persian. Arabic was of course the language of scripture and law, but Persian was the language of poetry and literature".

-- Bernard Lewis

Whether you like it or not Persian culture is one greatest ever created. I don't know why you guys hate us so much.

[Loy Afghanistan]

Greetings!

Thank you brother I must disagree. We are not on the same side. Alhamdulillah we both are proud Afghans but I am not a racist. Actually I dislike it pretty much. Nor do I care so much about gens and stuff like that. So I am sorry but we can not be friends.

Manana wrora.

Sorry but people who does not belong in my ancestors noble lands can't stay more than a simple guest can. Hope you are packing back to your roots later.

Best Regards brother.

[Firdousi]

Sorry but people who does not belong in my ancestors noble lands can't stay more than a simple guest can. Hope you are packing back to your roots later.

Best Regards brother.

Greetings!

Thanks for your good wishes, brother! But I don't care lol.

Enjoy your racial purity. You must be such a successful human being! I wish I was like you! LOL

Please, since you are better than us, just share a picture of yours! I want to see your godlike face!

[tilla_jogian]

Greetings, bro!

Not really brother. Actually Herat is a pretty "developed" city. According to the regional standards. Most of the roads are well paved, streets are cleaned on a daily basis, we got good hospitals, schools and universities, security is much better than any other place in Afghanistan (except may be Balkh. Not a fan of Atta at all but the guy is doing a good job in there). We got a growing civil society. There is almost no ruins despite being carpet bombed by URSS. Most of the buildings are not "mud houses". Heratis are traders and businessmen. We got the best carpets, the best saffron in the world, the best dry fruits, the highest rates of trade in the country. And honestly brother we are the most tolerant and educated people in this country. There is a lot of Pashtuns and Hazaras in Herat and they have no problems here. Just look at the Safi family (owners of Safi Airways): they are Persianspeaker Pashtuns and they are well integrated into our society. No suicide bombs, no drug dealing.. and so on. We have improved a lot in the past 15 years. There is a long way to go but I am confident.

I use to visite our beloved Afghanistan very often and I must say Heratis enjoy the highest living standards in the country. We are not troublemakers, nor qaumparast, nor fascists. We don't care about politics. We just want to live in peace. Thats why Herat is centuries ahead of any Pashtun province of the country (I REPEAT THERE IS A HUGE PERSIANSPEAKERPASHTUN COMMUNITY IN HERAT AND THEY ARE AS HERATI AS A TAJIK!!!). Its pretty obvious you have never been to Herat. But I hope some of the members on this forum can tell a bit more about us!

Ssince you're probably not troll and actually from Herat, I will do more digging and come up with some facts. I doubt Herat is anywhere as developed as Peshawar or Quetta, forget about bigger cities in Pakistan.

Now some facts, Herat is city of just about half million people. Combined GDP of Afghanistan is barely $15 billion dollars. GDP of KPK alone is near $30 billion despite less population then Afghanistan. 90% of Afghan government budget is foreign aid and 10% from tax collection which is mostly spent on huge Afghan army. Considering all this not sure from where does Herat get so much money to run, clean, build, develop as you're saying here.

KPK budget last year was $4 billion, good part of it most have been spent on Peshawar. How much is Herat budget?

Considering these facts alone is enough that Herat isn't anywhere near as developed as you would like to believe.

And brother nothing wrong with mud houses, but Herat pictures on google only show mud houses and nothing else for most part.





How is Herat 200 years ahead of any Pakistani city is hard to understand.

[Firdousi]

Ssince you're probably not troll and actually from Herat, I will do more digging and come up with some facts. I doubt Herat is anywhere as developed as Peshawar or Quetta, forget about bigger cities in Pakistan.

Now some facts, Herat is city of just about half million people. Combined GDP of Afghanistan is barely $15 billion dollars. GDP of KPK alone is near $30 billion despite less population then Afghanistan. 90% of Afghan government budget is foreign aid and 10% from tax collection which is mostly spent on huge Afghan army. Considering all this not sure from where does Herat get so much money to run, clean, build, develop as you're saying here.

KPK budget last year was $4 billion, good part of it most have been spent on Peshawar. How much is Herat budget?

Considering these facts alone is enough that Herat isn't anywhere near as developed as you would like to believe.

And brother nothing wrong with mud houses, but Herat pictures on google only show mud houses and nothing else for most part.





How is Herat 200 years ahead of any Pakistani city is hard to understand.

Greetings!

Thanks for sharing all the info, bro. I will try to learn more about you guys. Now speaking honestly its pretty obvious that Pakistan is ahead of Afghanistan. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that. But truth is that despite all the corruption, terrorism and lack of education and resources, we have done a good job in Afghanistan. HDI reported in 2013 that Afghanistan has had the fastest growth in the world. I am not kidding when I say that Afghanistan is much better place than it was 15 years ago while Pakistan is much worse. You must give me that at least bro. We have now decent roads linking all the main urban centers, a relatively free media, we have modern technology, we thousands of girls and boys studying, we have a small but growing civil society, we are much better connected to our neighbors and the rest of the world, we have improved our relationship with key regional actors such as Iran, India and Russia. Very soon we will have access to sea thanks to Chabahar (i am sorry but we will bypass Pakistan), we less dependency on Pakistan than ever,.. and so on. I have never been to Pakistan so I can't judge (I was trolling a bit ) and compare Quetta to Herat

I don't have too much numbers about Herat economy, bro. But most of Herat is not that bad place. There are many poor places and neighborhoods in Herat where poor people live in mud houses but that can be also found in many cities of Pakistan. Even in Iran. Believe it or not the city has much higher population than half million. That number is completely outdated. Many people from other provinces have moved into Herat because our better economic situation.

You are right when it comes to foreign dependency. We depend too much on Western economical aid. But you know whats the problem with Afghanistan? There is a lot of money in there but the government is too weak so they can not carry out a good control of population and taxes. But truth is government is finally trying to fix this. I mean just two days ago government finally approved the modern ID cards plan. That will help us a lot to control our own population: e will be finally able to tackle electoral fraud, terrorism, taxes, corruption and even will finally find out the ethnic reality of our country (ethnicity will be included in the ID).

So I repeat: we have a long way to go but I am confident. We just need some more stability and time. Afghans are hard workers and very brilliant people. Just come here to Europe and you will see how Afghans are running successful businesses and getting educated.

[Orakzai]

It would be great brother if you conduct a gen test for yourself and share the outcome with us. Just in order to make sure you not a Pakistani hybrid, can you please share a picture of yours with us? :D

I don't care about your racist mumbo jumbo. I am a humanist. I care about any human being regardless his ethnic or religious background.

They are just low caste Hindus who betrayed first their religion, Hinduism, and few decades ago they betrayed their motherland, India. These guys want badly to be related with the Central Asian and Middle Eastern peoples.. but at the end of the day they are just Islamized Indians. You belong to the Indic civilization and you will never be part of the Aryan civilization. No matter how much you try, guys. We will never accept you as our equals.

Step outside and take a look at the American soldiers patrolling the streets nearby, some of whom are "sub-human negroids" and "mutant mulatto latinos", keeping your "strong, noble Aryan state" from collapsing into a pile of rubble. What's the point I'm trying to get at over here? Race doesn't matter anymore. It didn't matter 1000 years ago, but it matters even less now. You can tell from the fact that a country like the United States, with no thousand-year old history and a vibrant mix of races and ethnicities easily dominated and crushed the "proud, noble, superior Afghan-Persian-Aryan-Pashtun race" and is now babysitting their crippled body until it recovers well enough to be beaten to a bloody pulp by some other "sub-human" regional or global power.

[tilla_jogian]

Greetings!

Thanks for sharing all the info, bro. I will try to learn more about you guys. Now speaking honestly its pretty obvious that Pakistan is ahead of Afghanistan. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see that. But truth is that despite all the corruption, terrorism and lack of education and resources, we have done a good job in Afghanistan. HDI reported in 2013 that Afghanistan has had the fastest growth in the world. I am not kidding when I say that Afghanistan is much better place than it was 15 years ago while Pakistan is much worse. You must give me that at least bro. We have now decent roads linking all the main urban centers, a relatively free media, we have modern technology, we thousands of girls and boys studying, we have a small but growing civil society, we are much better connected to our neighbors and the rest of the world, we have improved our relationship with key regional actors such as Iran, India and Russia. Very soon we will have access to sea thanks to Chabahar (i am sorry but we will bypass Pakistan), we less dependency on Pakistan than ever,.. and so on. I have never been to Pakistan so I can't judge (I was trolling a bit ) and compare Quetta to Herat

I don't have too much numbers about Herat economy, bro. But most of Herat is not that bad place. There are many poor places and neighborhoods in Herat where poor people live in mud houses but that can be also found in many cities of Pakistan. Even in Iran. Believe it or not the city has much higher population than half million. That number is completely outdated. Many people from other provinces have moved into Herat because our better economic situation.

You are right when it comes to foreign dependency. We depend too much on Western economical aid. But you know whats the problem with Afghanistan? There is a lot of money in there but the government is too weak so they can not carry out a good control of population and taxes. But truth is government is finally trying to fix this. I mean just two days ago government finally approved the modern ID cards plan. That will help us a lot to control our own population: e will be finally able to tackle electoral fraud, terrorism, taxes, corruption and even will finally find out the ethnic reality of our country (ethnicity will be included in the ID).

So I repeat: we have a long way to go but I am confident. We just need some more stability and time. Afghans are hard workers and very brilliant people. Just come here to Europe and you will see how Afghans are running successful businesses and getting educated.

Pakistan have not gotten worse in last 15 years in terms of development. I believe what you're saying about Afghanistan but Pakistan have also come long way. Yes things could have been better but that's life.

Since 15 years poverty have decreased according to WB and UN and GDP increased many folds yet you make it seem like Pakistan is stuck in 2000.

You just linked your main urban centers through road which was done by early 50's in Pakistan. I don't think there is any point in comparing development of both countries. Pakistan is independent while Afghanistan will need many more decades to get on same stage.

[Samandri]

Greetings, bro!

Not really brother. Actually Herat is a pretty "developed" city. According to the regional standards. Most of the roads are well paved, streets are cleaned on a daily basis, we got good hospitals, schools and universities, security is much better than any other place in Afghanistan (except may be Balkh. Not a fan of Atta at all but the guy is doing a good job in there). We got a growing civil society. There is almost no ruins despite being carpet bombed by URSS. Most of the buildings are not "mud houses". Heratis are traders and businessmen. We got the best carpets, the best saffron in the world, the best dry fruits, the highest rates of trade in the country. And honestly brother we are the most tolerant and educated people in this country. There is a lot of Pashtuns and Hazaras in Herat and they have no problems here. Just look at the Safi family (owners of Safi Airways): they are Persianspeaker Pashtuns and they are well integrated into our society. No suicide bombs, no drug dealing.. and so on. We have improved a lot in the past 15 years. There is a long way to go but I am confident.

I use to visite our beloved Afghanistan very often and I must say Heratis enjoy the highest living standards in the country. We are not troublemakers, nor qaumparast, nor fascists. We don't care about politics. We just want to live in peace. Thats why Herat is centuries ahead of any Pashtun province of the country (I REPEAT THERE IS A HUGE PERSIANSPEAKERPASHTUN COMMUNITY IN HERAT AND THEY ARE AS HERATI AS A TAJIK!!!). Its pretty obvious you have never been to Herat. But I hope some of the members on this forum can tell a bit more about us!

Dont assume that i have not been to Herat, like i said, there are just some modern polished buildings otherwise its an empty shell...you talk of high living standards?, its a lie. Universities colleges etc are joke , so are the hospitals (Doctors in Herat are big joke, so are the facilities). The city is "relatively" clean though, but it doesnt mean it gets into your head and start comparing it with Pakistani cities. Calm down, buildings other than mud houses, doesnt mean your city and country has made tremendous progress. When Afghanistan makes genuine progress, not painting on the surface, i will nod in agreement with you.

About Herati people.....I am told they are fine and sophisticated people

[Samandri]

Well Ghorids were Tajiks from Western Afghanistan. Ghaznawids were Persianized Turks. Same thing goes for Moguls. Even many Pashtun dynasties such as Lodis adopted Persian as their national language. Most of Indians and Pakistanis are Sunni Hanafis. Did you know that Abu Hanifa was a Tajik from Kabul? Actually everything in Islam is Persian: Abu Hanifa, Ghazzali, Imam Bukhara, Termidhi, Tabari, Salman al Farsi, Abu Dawood,.. and so on.


The Chishti Order is known for its emphasis on love, tolerance, and openness.[1]

The Chishti Order is primarily followed in Afghanistan and South Asia. It was the first of the four main Sufi orders (Chishti, Qadiriyya, Suhrawardiyya and Naqshbandi) to be established in this region. Moinuddin Chishti introduced the Chishti Order in Lahore (Punjab) and Ajmer (Rajasthan), sometime in the middle of the 12th century CE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chishti_Order

I could go on, brother, but I think I made my point. Just do some more research about the Indo-Persian culture. There is a lot of info about Persian contributions to India.

Thats a good answer, and to the point.....Kudos. Still Herat or any Persian city or village, has no monopoly over preaching Islam to India, most of the preachers were from Central Asia. There is not a single ethnic Iranian dynasty which ruled Delhi as Sultans, most of them were Turks from Central Asia, and Persians were one of the many classes serving them. Persians were not warriors and leaders, they were court creatures and remained mostly in big cities of India, mostly sticked to administration, literature, poetry etc.

About Ghorids, you can call them Tajiks but they were certainly not Iranians or Persians, and had no resemblance to Heratis. Ghorids were some distinct east Iranian group , with distinct language as their contemporaries tell us. According to 10th century book Hadud-i-Alam ,

"a province amid mountains and rugged country. It has a King called Ghur Shah. He draws his strength from the mir of Guzganan. In the days of old this province of Ghur was pagan (Kafir) ; actually most of the people are Muslims. To them belong numerous boroughs and villages. From this province come slaves , armour, coats of mail, and good arms. The people are bad-tempered, unruly, and ignorant. They are white and swarthy" (page-110)

The above description of Ghurids reveal that they were quite different from Persians in temperament and ways of life....rather very similar to Afghans