Pashtuns Don't Want a Talibanistan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Give it a rest AZO…give it a rest…Ahmadi this or Farhat Taj bitch this or that---to much hatred…I just hope you don’t go crazy and start singing with your toothless mouth This place about to blow-oh-oh-oh! Blow-oh-oh-oh.

Are you pleasuring yourself publicly again Daruish? No one wants to read or hear your pervert pleasure moans when you are up to peeping on your male neighbors.

Hahaha lol Without pussyfooting tell us if Taliban are indigenous to Pashtons then where does the ideology behind the Taliban and other extremist groups that sustains them comes from? Hu? Deobandi School, Barelvi and many others of the type, Paki state-funded mufties, and Paki State sponsored Mullahs? None of these are homegrown to Afghan or Pashtons.

idiot, Hekmetyaar and Sayyaf and Khalis, the latter under whom Mullah Omar fought initially have variant schools of thought. The underlying point is that war radicalizes. In times of peace and plenty and stability there is internal dialogue and limits from segments of society on fundamentalist thought (or at least it has its limited space and role). When war hits and the leadership and "thinkers" up and leave - these dedicated zealots come to the fore and often their groups end up having a galvanizing effect on susceptible populations affected by conflict.

Afghan/Pashtons being a proud nation with history going back thousands of years do not need a religious identity.

Coming from a guy who cannot even use the right pashto word for dog and does a piss poor job covering his tracks (Slopey - D/Daruish) - most will take your view of Pashtuns attachment to their faith with not just a grain but perhaps a kilo ton of salt.

In other words the use of religion as a means for acquiring political power either in Afghanistan or in Pakistan.

Or idiot, as is evident, a galvanizing and organizing (as well as comforting) age old paradigm/system that has affected the life of foot soldier and monarch alike at various points in the collective history as much as tribalism. Your attempt to once again blame religion for human nature and behavior belies your kabob salesman intellect that is hell bent on justifying your after hours liquor intake and the fat as-s women you frequent.

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[Badlun]

Its not as black and white as that. Everything is interconnected, your beliefs play a big role in shaping your world view wether right or wrong. Wether we like it or not we all have our biases and a world view shaped mostly by our surroundings so its not easy take away personal beliefs and biases from decision making when it comes to any kind of decision making. We need more wholesome approach to problems rather than looking at things from on narrow point of view. There is a famous example of an elephant in a dark room and 2 people go into the room to find out what is there and one grabs the leg of the elephant and says its a tree , other grabs the ears and says its a round plate. Ofoucrse both are wrong because they can't see the full picture and just know one part of the whole. In the same way a physician will look at a problem from his perspective and a so called spiritual person will see it as a spiritual problem. Neither is absolutely right as things are connected, they are two sides of the same coin, you can't seperate physical from spiritual etc. So I feel a more wholesome approach is better than looking at things from a narrow lense and that applies to everything in life.

I have a model of the secular democratic developed liberal West where my idea of separating faith, society, politics and economy is working for decades and which is the dream land of many of us so called Muslims and Islamists to settle there.

What model you have for your wholesome approach?

[Shapur]

I have a model of the secular democratic developed liberal West where my idea of separating faith, society, politics and economy is working for decades and which is the dream land of many of us so called Muslims and Islamists to settle there.

What model you have for your wholesome approach?

I am a just an ordinary pashtun living in the west. I don't want to impose my model on anybody back home. Pashtuns can and ultimately will decide themselves what model they would like to follow. Ofcourse I can offer my opinion as a pashtun from the west but since I am neither living there nor have any plans to return in the near future, its not really my place to pretend to be the wise guy from the west who has all the answers.
We can take good things from the west such as freedom of speech, rule of law, accountability, welfare state but there are also some bad things about west such as rampant materialism, lack of spirituality, breakdown of family unit, commercialisation of everything, unchecked capitalism causing 1% of the wealthy to control most of the wealth and wage wars in order to keep that monopoly. We can learn from the west and take the good things but also careful not to make the same mistakes they have made. What has worked for the west won't necessarily work for pashtuns. Pashtuns might not want to pay the same price to acheive material success as the westerner, to a pashtun being slightly poor but keeping pashtunwali might be more important than being rich without pashtunwali. Just because Christianity held the Europeans back from advancement doesn't mean Islam will be the same for muslims unless its the brand of islam encouraged by Saudis etc. The islam pashtuns follow is quite tolerant of others as evidenced by a rich sufi culture in pashtun lands and even pre islamic practices.
I am not quite sure what you means seperating society, faith, politics etc. The same person is part of society, can be spiritual, be involved in politics, science and economy etc. Or are you saying one can only be religioius and not be a politician or a scientist. The two are not mutually exclusive. You can be all at the same time which is often the case. If you mean taking out religion completely out of any decision making than I am not sure how that can be acheived. Even in secular democracy we have christians in parliments whose opinions are shaped by their religion but don't say it explicitly in the parliment since religion has become such a taboo. on the other hand we have atheists who willl go against religious injunction just because they want to go against religion and don't care about merits of argument at hand.

[Badlun]

I am a just an ordinary pashtun living in the west. I don't want to impose my model on anybody back home. Pashtuns can and ultimately will decide themselves what model they would like to follow. Ofcourse I can offer my opinion as a pashtun from the west but since I am neither living there nor have any plans to return in the near future, its not really my place to pretend to be the wise guy from the west who has all the answers.
We can take good things from the west such as freedom of speech, rule of law, accountability, welfare state but there are also some bad things about west such as rampant materialism, lack of spirituality, breakdown of family unit, commercialisation of everything, unchecked capitalism causing 1% of the wealthy to control most of the wealth and wage wars in order to keep that monopoly. We can learn from the west and take the good things but also careful not to make the same mistakes they have made. What has worked for the west won't necessarily work for pashtuns. Pashtuns might not want to pay the same price to acheive material success as the westerner, to a pashtun being slightly poor but keeping pashtunwali might be more important than being rich without pashtunwali. Just because Christianity held the Europeans back from advancement doesn't mean Islam will be the same for muslims unless its the brand of islam encouraged by Saudis etc. The islam pashtuns follow is quite tolerant of others as evidenced by a rich sufi culture in pashtun lands and even pre islamic practices.
I am not quite sure what you means seperating society, faith, politics etc. The same person is part of society, can be spiritual, be involved in politics, science and economy etc. Or are you saying one can only be religioius and not be a politician or a scientist. The two are not mutually exclusive. You can be all at the same time which is often the case. If you mean taking out religion completely out of any decision making than I am not sure how that can be acheived. Even in secular democracy we have christians in parliments whose opinions are shaped by their religion but don't say it explicitly in the parliment since religion has become such a taboo. on the other hand we have atheists who willl go against religious injunction just because they want to go against religion and don't care about merits of argument at hand.

Thanks for the feedbacK. I would like to point out:

1. In spite of all the ills and evils of the West, you, me and every Pashtun wants to live in the West and not in the Pashtunland with lots of religion and Pashtunwali. It means the West is a lesser evil as compared to ours.

2. Pashtuns did have Sufi Islam but now no more. Tableeghi Jamat , Deobandi Mullahs, Panjpeeris, wahabis, Ahle Hadith, Taliban etc have compeltely over taken the kind of Islam Pashtuns have today. There are soem very small insignificant pockets of Sufi or Brelvi Islam but 90 % of pashtunland is spoiled by non Sufi or literalist Wahabi Saudi Islam. I go to Pashtunland located in both Paksitan and Afghansitan and every where I see are Tableeghis and Deobandis.

3. Secularism is not denying religion but separation of politics and religion. A Mullah or Taliban may not be the rulers but the managers of mosques. every body for its post and duty. As Khushal Baba says

Sheikh ba munz rojey krhi za ba dakey pialey akhlam
Har sarhey paida dey khpal khpal lar lara kana

[Azmal]

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Here you go…pussyfooting the question…it is not because of war…for the destruction of Pashton soco-cultural identity/values had started long before the soviet invasion—with creation of Pakistan itself...for any clear-minded person knows that the underlying reason for the Islamist enterprise in Pakistan owes itself to the fact that in the absence of any national coherence, political Islam has been the ONLY means at the government's disposal for keeping their synthetic nation glued together. Hence the underlying reason for Pakistan's support of terrorist and extremist movements in Afghanistan and Kashmir had/has nothing to do with religion or any pretense to moral virtue. For this purpose, over the years Punjabis conveniently nurtured in Pashton nationalism place an Islamic nationalism, which defied geographic boundaries among Muslims. This way, they entered an alliance with the old Pashton yearning for unity with their brethren in Afghanistan, while keeping the rest of Pakistan intact...hence the Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan.
The comical part is you proudly admit xenophobia, and preach for isolationism and centrifugal “Guilty as charged”…yet at the same time you want to impose nonnative indic based Balivi or Debandi schools yet badmouth the only native Rokhanian-- Pir Rokhan because he does not fit your political, religious, or sectarian perceptions. So tell me Azazel who is the foreigner worshiper in here? Hu?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Here you go…pussyfooting the question…

Oh really? then I assume what you did with your utterly retarded plagiarizing of your boyfriend Spengler (aka David Goldman) was what? There is not even a term for that sort of chicanery, mongaloid level retardedness, and pure idiocy. Quoting data secondhand without understanding its implications merely betrayed your Slopey-D nature.

it is not because of war…for the destruction of Pashton soco-cultural identity/values had started long before the soviet invasion—with creation of Pakistan itself...for any clear-minded person knows that the underlying reason for the Islamist enterprise in Pakistan owes itself to the fact that in the absence of any national coherence, political Islam has been the ONLY means at the government's disposal for keeping their synthetic nation glued together.

Lack of Pashtun unity has historical fault lines that precede 1947, jackas-s. In Khushal Khan's era you had the Mughals paying off various tribes in their sphere of influence and around that same era across Pashtun country you had Malik Sado and Malik Khoja Khizr who had been vassals of Safavids. Subsequent British vs Russian era conflict also enhanced aspects of the divide with some exceptions along the border regions to this gradient.

This is another example of how you purposefully assign blame onto Islam for behavior that has other bases and roots. What else can one expect from a fire jumping monkey nostalgic retard.

Hence the underlying reason for Pakistan's support of terrorist and extremist movements in Afghanistan and Kashmir had/has nothing to do with religion or any pretense to moral virtue. For this purpose, over the years Punjabis conveniently nurtured in Pashton nationalism place an Islamic nationalism, which defied geographic boundaries among Muslims.

Once again Slopey D, between selling kabobs, go read a book without committing verification bias errors. The prior rulers and saints and pirs and what not (Shah Waliullah, Ghaznavi, Mughals own dealings with Ahmad Shah subsequent to his winning, Ahmad Shah's vision for Jaffari Shiites to be named as a madhab by the Caliph, Ahmad Shah's desire to fight alongside the Caliph to buffer his empire against Qing expansionism using the Uighar plight etc) demonstrate the same sort of kinship we see across various religious groupings world round. Even today when it comes to Iraqi and Syrian Christians, while some racists in the West would place them below white greco roman influenced Christians of the West - Francis and others still feel a kinship enough to want to have action to protect their religious brethren. Various non genetic memes and ideologies and isms have united disparate people for eons... only a Slopey-D like you would use their verification bias to try and once again blame Islam.

This way, they entered an alliance with the old Pashton yearning for unity with their brethren in Afghanistan, while keeping the rest of Pakistan intact...hence the Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan.
The comical part is you proudly admit xenophobia, and preach for isolationism and centrifugal “Guilty as charged”…yet at the same time you want to impose nonnative indic based Balivi or Debandi schools yet badmouth the only native Rokhanian-- Pir Rokhan because he does not fit your political, religious, or sectarian perceptions.

LOOOOL, Oh really Slopey? So then tell me, what words do you have for Khushal Khan Baba who famous said:

Like Akhund Derwaza I point out godliness and piety to it; But the flesh teaches impiety and infidelity, like unto Pir Roshan

Being a man like he was, he was not a mongaloid crypto b-itch like you, masquerading as some sort of pseudo nationalist while your deeper inclinations and true nature are that of a Persian fascist he-ll bent on resurrecting a non existent monkey fire jumping/worshiping past you blame Arabs and Muslims in general for extinguishing.

No, being a true hero and a man he knew that Islam belonged to him and to his people as much as it did to the ones that wronged him (Mughals). He was not as stupid as Soldat Amir and others like you and him to go and decide that Islam is the problem. Nope, to the contrary he was a fair judge and not a donkey like you. He could care less if Akhund Derwaza was stipended by the Mughal court - he purely looked at the arguments of Pir Roshan and Derwaza and made a decision/judgement call.

If he heard and read the sick psychopathic things you have said here about the Quran and Islam and what not he would have turned your Slopey-Daruish head into a cone-head.


So tell me Azazel who is the foreigner worshiper in here? Hu?

You, forever and for always since you truly are fifth colu-mn citizen and a lying s-ack of excrement that rationalizes an occupation boot on the neck of Afghanistan with "alliances are needed in this world" despite not addressing the lopsided nature and one way gain of that relationship.

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[Azmal]

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Azazel,
Yet again you are pussyfooting, you cannot have it both ways…favoring Debandi and Balavi foreign ideas over liberal democracy yet accusing me of imposing foreign idea... while you enjoy the privileges of liberal society of west...this shows how much of a real hypocrite you are. Besides, you need to claim down…no need to get furious with name calling…and stop acting as god’s detective or defender of Islam. The simple fact you get hot and cold on an online discussion with an online person, proves how further away you are from Islam. Reminds me of a story my grandfather used to say…60+ years ago a famous Afghan writer was sick but had to attend a government function …since he was sick during dinner he could not eat any food, so they told him to eat Jell-O…he look at Jell-o and said “the thing cannot keep his ass stationary, how it could give me energy?!” You can’t even keep your kona fixed ahahah lol and in control yet you accused others as anti-Islam? I've argued in the past that Islam is by nature secular and you've stated otherwise without referencing the Quran. I believe both political Islam as well as our traditional Islam are a hindrance to people's faith. Without faith, you cannot motivate yourselves to perform good deeds. You cannot ignore the fact that Muslims the world over are viewed as liars, thieves, tyrants, corrupted and violent. The volume of evidence here has fueled immense anti-Islam polymics. The simple fact that you and rest of Paki girls in this forum has never denounced suicide bombing…even when Taliban takes credit for a bombing that killed mainly Afghan civilians, shows how far you are from Islam. Anyways, facts upset the primitive minded, hence the cycles of repetitive vitriol they engage in as they surrender their sanity to oblivion. As expected, you will once again dodge the mainstay of what’s being said, only to revive it again in the future as though this discussion had never occurred.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Azazel,

LOL. Azazel was his name BEFORE he fell, when he actually had potential. You on the other hand are just one of the post- fall minor shaytaan b-itches- like a sort of Kabuli Kaytlan Jenner.

Yet again you are pussyfooting, you cannot have it both ways…favoring Debandi and Balavi foreign ideas over liberal democracy yet accusing me of imposing foreign idea...

There you go again, equating Islam with a foreign imposition. As we have noted, there are mounds of documentary evidence and history from Shah Waliullah's interactions with Afghans to Mir Wais's travels to Mecca to secure religious authority for his insurrection to the Ghazi's like Abdullah Achakzai who died in the droves fighting the British and were called the "Crazy" Talib-ul-ilms of that time to Powindah etc.

That is a far stretch from your perversions you wish to impose which have more to do with persiofascism masquerading as secular humanism. And even the latter has no right to be imposed with F16s and daisy cutters.

while you enjoy the privileges of liberal society of west...this shows how much of a real hypocrite you are.

Ah the classic "I am a mongaloid reaching for a red herring" canard. LOOOOL. Living somewhere and having values of a particular type have little to do with "benefiting off liberal society." Take for instance evangelicals and for that matter one would then have to explain away NATIVE noninterventionism like that of Michael Scheuer, Andrew Bacevich, Ron and Rand Paul etc. Are also "hypocrites" in that they want to limit the amount of tax payer dollars and Western resources you are diverting to impose "flute" training on the Afghan people, Slopey-D?

If you are going to make an argument and pretend to be smart at least go for something better than the whiny b-itch canard of "you live in the West and want to impose Talibanism in the East." Even your communist butt buddy predecessors utilized that one to no avail - and trust me even they were smarter than you Slopey.

Even more hilarious is that you conveniently forget that it is not your door getting kicked down in Gardez or in Lashgar Gah or your children getting molested by ANA and ANP... no to the contrary you are cheerleading hillbillies doing these things from abroad while feigning dog like obedience in Virginia. So I would refer you to the misaal of the Pot and the Kettle.



Besides, you need to claim down

Its "calm" down, dumb shi-t. If you are going to impose liberal democracy at the barrel end of a pistol on innocent natives than at least use correct spelling when doing so so that you don't appear to be the inferiority complex laden persiofascist that you are.

…no need to get furious with name calling…and stop acting as god’s detective or defender of Islam.

No detective work necessary Slopey-D its all here for everyone to see:

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=46504

Even an infant could have caught you Daruish.


The simple fact you get hot and cold on an online discussion with an online person, proves how further away you are from Islam.

Nah, I prefer this methodology because its like Ahmad Shah at Armitsar where you are Armitsar, except verbally.

Reminds me of a story my grandfather

Oh that old Chinkey guy from Pol-e-Sokhta? LOOOOL. Please Daruish, spare me the litany of references to generations that spawned stupid (aka You).

used to say…60+ years ago a famous Afghan writer was sick but had to attend a government function …since he was sick during dinner he could not eat any food, so they told him to eat Jell-O…he look at Jell-o and said “the thing cannot keep his ass stationary, how it could give me energy?!” You can’t even keep your kona

Amazing, you don't even know the word for dog and ran away doing diarrhea when everyone asked you what the f-%^&& a "spaag" was - yet you are an aficionado when it comes to vocabulary that might come in handy in a red light district or on a xxx movie set. Shows us your priorities Mr. Flute. LOL.

fixed ahahah lol and in control yet you accused others as anti-Islam?

Accusations require proof - the thread above provides clear incontrovertible proof you fire jumping monkey.

I've argued in the past that Islam is by nature secular and you've stated otherwise without referencing the Quran.

It depends on your DEFINITION of secular. For instance, did the Prophet Mohammad ask certain individuals to keep their indiscretions to themselves and not bring the matter to the public and the state and to keep the indiscretion between God and the supplicant? Sure. Such was even the case in adultery. Yet there were clear cut governance laws of inheritance, penal code references, directives for war and treaty making, post war governance, marriage laws, court witness testimony references etc.


I believe both political Islam

Once again Slopey, read the history. How many times does one have to tell a fire jumping nostalgia laced persiofascist monkey to read a book on cause and effect and history without inserting verification bias. The concept of Political Islam has been studied in depth by Esposito, Mogahed and the tactics of insurgency by Pape. In general, in a fashion similar to Latin American Marxism ala Guevara - Islamic insurgency or factions are a responsive element to outside incursion/invasion and acts as a galvanizing force It cannot be compared to the evangelical political force we see in the West since the conditions that feed it are entirely variant. Only an agenda laced Slopey-D like you would find it fit to ignore the mountains of evidence and worship at the alter of Geller and Spencer and view it as otherwise.

But I guess we can only expect so much from a monkey that plagiarizes from Spengler.

as well as our traditional Islam are a hindrance to people's faith. Without faith, you cannot motivate yourselves to perform good deeds.

Ah there is the broken record. We have discussed this before but your illiteracy precedes you. Islamic theology teaches of the inherent goodness and sinless birth of man as well as the predilection to believe in the monotheism of God as well as to practice good works.

In fact the Islamic formula of "amano WA amilosalihaati" - "those who believe AND do good" recognizes with utter clarity that the two can be bereft of each other you fool. This formula and observation is repeated countless times in the Holy Quran.

You cannot ignore the fact that Muslims the world over are viewed as liars, thieves, tyrants, corrupted and violent.

Sure, by inferiority complex, balding, insecure little men like yourself who are busy trying to prove to Jennifer that you are a brown/olive complexion receding hairline version of "Tom." The rest of us understand complexity and know clearly that for every Saddam you have a cocaine nose jut punk retard like W Bush.

For every lying, thieving conniving Blair you have a Karzai. For every murderous thug in Syria you have a hill-ja-ck mayonnaise sandwich eating tobacco chewing Bubba Sparxxx Toby Keith listening mental nitwit (aka Rapist Stephen Greene that murdered the girl Abeer Hamza and her family in Iraq) that goes and molests and shoots innocents abroad as well.

For every moron with bad teeth that destroys a Palmyra building there was that equivalent ebay addicted jughead that pocketed looted treasure from Bhagdad and Kabul and sold it online.

And then of course there is the confounding factors of imposed war and the post colonial period that may take hundreds of years to recover from similar to the post Roman European dark ages.

These are the natural steps in history that peoples follow and move through.


The volume of evidence here has fueled immense anti-Islam polymics. The simple fact that you and rest of Paki girls in this forum has never denounced suicide bombing…even when Taliban takes credit for a bombing that killed mainly Afghan civilians, shows how far you are from Islam.

As I said, I cannot denounce or comment or pass judgement either on an empire using B52s and drones (since it is ABSURD) to ask an empire not to use personal casualty limiting weaponry and it is equally ABSURD to pass judgements on a group of insurgents responding to asymmetric tactics with what they have devised.

You choose to ignore Robert Pape's work because it clashes with your Persiofascist narrative yet history is replete with such examples of insurgencies that inherently resort to low resolution weaponry.

If one moralizes or injects morality into the discussion then the biggest qualm is toward the ones that IMPOSE the war conditions ONTO the indigenous people... namely the empire and its slave minded perverts and inferiority complex laden failures like you.

But I am actually doing you a favor you thalidomide monkey. I am saying that war tactics and weaponry are inherently a part of war and that if we are to discuss the ethics of war weaponry and tactics then we can do so but it must be done with a panoramic view of the whole problem - not just hurling your monkey feces thoughts against people you dislike since they whooped your grand daddys as-ses and hero's (Mossoud and Hizbe Wahdat) ass-es.

Anyways, facts upset the primitive minded, hence the cycles of repetitive vitriol they engage in as they surrender their sanity to oblivion.

Coming from the Tajikaam acolyte like you, I would say if such descriptions of yours is to label people as primitive then your place in evolution relative to said parties is that of sh-it eating bacteria or roach compared to hominoid primate, LOOOL.

As expected, you will once again dodge the mainstay of what’s being said, only to revive it again in the future as though this discussion had never occurred.

Says the guy that failed to make his point because plagiarized Spengler without knowing what he was plagiarizing, who has regurgitated the same Tajikaam propaganda and canards repeatedly, and who invented a pseudo shajaraat because he likes to forget his monkey nature and play make believe.

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[Azmal]

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Azazel,
People do these mental gymnastics to make their beliefs logical in their own mind when they are clearly not. You have mixed lot of curse words with half-truth trying to sound intelligent. You mention “impose liberal democracy at the barrel end of a pistol on innocent natives.” Yet you have no problem with your Taliban imposing their interpretation (based on you indic Belavi and Dewbandi school” on native with barrel end of a gun. I told you this before, you can never guarantee your right to practice your religion--how you see it unless you guarantee others to practice theirs. The hypocrisy and filthy culture you uphold is one among a myriad of reasons explaining why Muslim world is so f.ucked up! I told you before you are betting on yourself (mule) on horse race. lol ahahh Every wonder why the people you really hate have always popped up and used Islamist (like a condom) from creation of Pakistan—in the name of Islam, to Hamas, or brainwashing of village idiots into Muj and later Taliban? You do not have to be a genius to figure it out.. Just ask yourself,, "Who gets the most out of this ,long-term?” and the answer will stare you straight in the face. Hence your fake Muslim pride becomes a false pride. We are being ruled by others today and we have been so for the last 150 years….and the only way out of this age old occupation is through an Afghanistan that has solid institutions. But it’s you retards who, delusional thinking that they are free, stand against construction of anything positive for Afghanistan…worst even outside Afghanistan you are busy cheering for dog of dogs, those naive fools that don’t even know they are being used and abused. The fact is those you worship have nothing to offer then killing, terrorist, murder and savageness.... you lot are good at nothing else. If you Islamist simpletons spent 3 percent of your time using your brains instead of demonizing the others you would not have been in this state.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Azazel,

Nah, lol, the only Satan is the one worshipping at the alter of Spengler (aka you)


People do these mental gymnastics to make their beliefs logical in their own mind when they are clearly not.

Says the persiofascist who cannot rebut a single iota of evidence of these scholars that are referenced (e.g. Pape's "Dying to Win" study etc) and who incorrectly plagiarizes, making verification bias error, the David Jewboy Goldman (Spengler) blogs maligning Islam.

You have mixed lot of curse words with half-truth trying to sound intelligent.

Nah Slopes, thats the difference of why I am where I am and you are where you are (doing kabob sales by day and translating dari for the war industry by night) alongside of inventing a new ethno identity to compensate for your inadequacies

You mention “impose liberal democracy at the barrel end of a pistol on innocent natives.” Yet you have no problem with your Taliban imposing their interpretation (based on you indic Belavi and Dewbandi school” on native with barrel end of a gun.

No idiot, any Helmand denizen, even the anti Talibs and governmental officials alike will tell you one was the response to civil war and mafioso style killing by militias and the other was the result of your idiocy advocating for forced intervention to try and turn Ahmad and Hamida into Tom and Jennifer equivalents using blowback as a pretext to invade instead of understanding why US interventionalism in the mid-east and Sudan created the blowback in the initial.

These are full truths that an agenda driven, herpes laden war industry beneficiary like you cannot grasp due to secondary gain influences.

I told you this before, you can never guarantee your right to practice your religion--how you see it unless you guarantee others to practice theirs.

Idiot, evolution to pluralistic societies requires gradual change and institutions that are INDIGENOUS and well thought out - not imposed by a turtle neck wearing, car washing, kabob selling Slopey-D like you who has no capacity to do it himself but uses foreign guns to do it.

The hypocrisy and filthy culture you uphold is one among a myriad of reasons explaining why Muslim world is so f.ucked up!

Yeah fool, had one imposed decades of raging war on parts of Alabama and Texas (refer to the reconstruction era) you would see no different and in fact in certain outcome measures across the nation (US) you actually do see tangible hindrances to liberal pluralistic progression across swathes of the post war South. Rather the filthy creatures are the ones like you that, as I said, want to bend over for Tom and impress his whitey girl Jennifer to convince her that you are their down trodden equivalent awaiting their guns and help in the region. The reality is you are far from the average Afghan and, if you spouted your anti Quran nonsense, you would likely have that black head pocked nose of yours handed back to you in less than 24 hours.

I told you before you are betting on yourself (mule) on horse race.

You? A horse? I told you, you are not a high level species - your relative is the survivalist sh-it eating cockroach.

lol ahahh Every wonder why the people you really hate have always popped up and used Islamist (like a condom) from creation of Pakistan—in the name of Islam, to Hamas, or brainwashing of village idiots into Muj and later Taliban? You do not have to be a genius to figure it out.. Just ask yourself,, "Who gets the most out of this ,long-term?” and the answer will stare you straight in the face.

Once again, according to men who practice evidence based analysis, like Scheuer, like Bacevich, like Pape you are a f-ucking idiot with your conspiracy theories. Its as simple as there is an instigator and a response and then there are fifth columnist Uncle Toms like you that try to live with and justify their salesmanship of snake oil. Fortunately, the rest of the world does not want to dabble in buying what Slopey-D has to sell LOOOL.Well except numero uno client, Saleh of course.

Hence your fake Muslim pride becomes a false pride.

Oh wow, now you are reaching into the cliche bin.

We are being ruled by others today and we have been so for the last 150 years….

With sh-it for brains and trashy members of society like you, using foreign hands to prop up your minority while pretending to be a member of the Pashtun majority (e.g. refer to spaag, lol)- until the septic tank is cleaned out (figuratively) it might be 150 more.

and the only way out of this age old occupation is through an Afghanistan that has solid institutions.

Ah yes, because a nation that doles out contracts by the billions to produce shoddy edifices and non functioning equipment to benefit a few contractors and that has been cited by its own fact finding mission (Sopko) is going to do that free of charge without trying to turn every Afghan by force into a Slopey-D equivalent. This is the same garbage that fifth columnists in Africa spout to justify their personal behind the scenes paychecks. You were better off selling kabobs Slopey-D, at least that was honest work instead of making up reasons to get paid by the Pentagon to produce nothing. Are you even half literate with that sloped up part of your brain lobotomized?
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/sh...ticle/2558553#!



But it’s you retards who, delusional thinking that they are free, stand against construction of anything positive for Afghanistan…

No, we stand against prostitutes like you who invent the sorts of trashy reasons above to feel better about bending over for whitey. You want to talk about mental gymnastics? Look at half the garbled bu-ll-sh-it you just wrote.

worst even outside Afghanistan you are busy cheering for dog of dogs, those naive fools that don’t even know they are being used and abused.

No one is cheering for anyone Slopey-D. The abuse is hoisted by pervs, lechers, and idiots like you and Saleh who are hell bent on making Dana Rohrbacher and his boyfriends in DC (hence why you live so close to Washington to keep your escort service running) keep destroying Afghanistan.

The fact is those you worship have nothing to offer then killing, terrorist, murder and savageness.... you lot are good at nothing else.

Says the guy whose whole career and life rest upon benefiting from the current conflict LOOOL. Like I said Slopey, go back to selling those kabobs - they may be burnt and over done- but they were at least more of an ethical trade than the crap you peddle now.

If you Islamist simpletons spent 3 percent of your time using your brains instead of demonizing the others you would not have been in this state.

3/100 - 3% with 97% potential is superior and perhaps efficient compared to the 3% due to being a Sloped forehead- Daruish who has no 97% reserve LOOOOL.

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[Azmal]

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Azazel,
I am still waiting on you to answer a reasonable question that was placed before you..it kinda went like this..."if ideology of Taliban are native then where do they get the motivation that sustain them?” All you’re personalizing the discussion and verbal masturbation not standing let me assure you I have absolutely no personal gain or loss from war or peace in Afghanistan except sentimental attachment to country of my forefather. I truly believe only secularism is answer to Afghanistan’s problem for what’s good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander. I believe if Afghans want to fare better in the future, then they must seek to become outward looking and Universalist in as much as they’ll be required to build on their democracy and individual liberties back home. I’ve always considered myself as being an Afghan nationalist, but my nationalism and the pursuit of motherland’s interests is by no means exclusive to other tribes in the country or across the globe for that matter. As I've stated in the past, the important thing is that the people of Afghanistan are spared from all tyrannies, be they from the Islamists, Marxists, or the myriad of Barbarians posing as both. All are ok to compete, but only politically and with their hands and feet bound by laws that observe individual liberties.
Nobody should have the right to impose anything over the people. As I've said it countless times before for those caring to understand, my view of the government and the state is that it ought to be bound. The less powers people surrender to them, the better. The more people demand from their government, the less free they will be, guaranteed. You want somebody to regulate your daily moral behavior? Fine, there goes your god-given liberty to regulate your own behavior. You want the government (or foreigners) to build you things and give you things? Fine, but don't complain when they expect you to do things in return like paying lots of taxes or accepting a pay-cheque that is lower than your measured labor as you've to foot the bill for a lazy counterpart as the Commies would have it. You want to excuse Barbarism as those carrying it out happen to be in your circle of politics? Fine, but don't complain when they come to your home and force your daughter into marriage with them or insert a bomb in your recutm in your case. lol ahhah
For a deeply scarred, fractured and frustrated population, the more political channels there are for people to identify with and express their grievances through, the better. The party that chooses to initiate mass violence upon another is the enemy. When Ghani offers to talk and acomodiate Taliban yet they who chose violence instead, then the Taliban did indeed place themselves as the enemy of the nation. The more political groups we have in Afghanistan who are forced to compete for people's attention instead of waging mass violence, the better it will be for the nation in my opinion. Nothing reduces the power of the government than political competition, as each suspicious group seeks to reduce the powers of the other. The real reason behind the immense problems today is that the only valid opposition to the current elite are the Taliban. What political vehicle do people have to FORCE the elite to clean up? Nothing. This is what inflates the ranks of the Taliban to the benefit of our Pakistani enemy.
Ps: I’m glad you finally adopted a “persianist” spelling of “ Quran” hahah dumbass.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Azazel,
I am still waiting on you to answer a reasonable question that was placed before you..it kinda went like this..."if ideology of Taliban are native then where do they get the motivation that sustain them?”

The answer is littered throughout every response, but you being an illiterate agenda driven, fifth column piece of tr-ash purposefully ignores it. Years of war, invasions (even going back to the British era, sustained interventionalism. These reactionary forces have been there are are present in EVERY society and are ingrained in communities as a sort of immune system style response to galvanize resistance so long as the outside threat is present. There are, in most societies a governing polity/elite, urbanized population, rural population, and clerics. In American society this also exists, especially in the rural South where they contribute tons of manpower to the military (hence Tennessee being the volunteer state.) The new religion however, to galvanize support for military violence is "patriotism."

Churchill encountered this innate violent response to outsiders, and Mir Wais Neka even capitalized on it. Amanullah praised his Ghazis that were often the rural folks that ran at British cannons in the droves without concern for limb or life.

In one of his dispatches as a war correspondent for the Daily Telegraph, Churchill describesdthe Taliban “…as degraded as any on the fringe of humanity: fierce as a tiger, but less cleanly; as dangerous, not so graceful.” Churchill held the Taliban responsible for the pitiful conditions of the Afghans. These so-called holy men repelled Churchill for their loose moral conduct. According to Churchill, the Taliban incited the common Afghan to rise in rebellion against the British: ” …they live free at the expense of the people, keep them in the grip of miserable superstition, and enjoy droit de seigneur …no man’s wife or daughter is safe from them. Of some of their manners and morals it is impossible to write.”

http://guardianlv.com/2014/02/taliban-and-young-winston-churchill/

So basically, YOU, Slopey-D with your idiotic cat-calls for sustained interventionalism for all the confabulated reasons you invoke (alliances are required bul-lsh-it, etc) are the motivator and strength for sustaining them.



All you’re personalizing the discussion and verbal masturbation not standing let me assure you I have absolutely no personal gain or loss from war or peace in Afghanistan except sentimental attachment to country of my forefather.

Highly doubt that - Kabob sales and political science degrees don't pay bills so many Afghans who used to beat their chest and brag about being the race that repelled the Russians suddenly found reasons to support occupation, murder from above, and interventionalism when they found it convenient and beneficial.

I truly believe only secularism is answer to Afghanistan’s problem for what’s good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander.

Who cares what you believe Slopey? Your belief in the by force and fiat IMPOSITION of something you think is the answer is the problem in the initial. You are no better than an Islamist or a Red or a any ideological reta-rd because you think you have the panacea to cure a complex historical and diverse nation's ills. And you think, the id-iot that you are, trying to justify your secondary gain, that imposing it by force will somehow rapidly push through the hundreds of years of societal evolution, internal dialogue, and even sometimes violent conflict that births these sorts of stable systems. Additionally, who is to say that the gander and the goose (animals you probably tried to copulate with in your spare time) are going to come to the same exact execution, conclusions, and preferences in utilizing secular democracy?

I believe if Afghans want to fare better in the future, then they must seek to become outward looking and Universalist in as much as they’ll be required to build on their democracy and individual liberties back home.

Yeah, perhaps or perhaps not, but they don't need slopey D heads like you who have accomplished nothing except playing a variant version of Dungeons and Dragons (i.e. inventing a pseudo shajaraat) to lobby and get all tingly so that you can bend over and take it like a jack rabbit from Petreus and co. to bring this idealistic future onto Afghans. And the hypocrisy is glaring - on the one hand pretending that secular democrats cannot be demagogues or ideologues - when in fact recent history and borad interventionalism across the world shows just the opposite. In fact Neoconservatism finds its bedrock on half of the retarded brain fart nonsense you produced above.

I’ve always considered myself as being an Afghan nationalist, but my nationalism and the pursuit of motherland’s interests is by no means exclusive to other tribes in the country or across the globe for that matter.

Yep, Kabob salesman becomes neocon should be the title of your biography. All of your idiotic Leo Strauss and Fukayama style adventures are turning out to be disasters world round.

As I've stated in the past, the important thing is that the people of Afghanistan are spared from all tyrannies, be they from the Islamists, Marxists, or the myriad of Barbarians posing as both. All are ok to compete, but only politically and with their hands and feet bound by laws that observe individual liberties.

Once again idiot, symbiosis, agreements, and stability take time and internal dialogue, something that Afghans have never been given a chance to do except for some brief idyllic periods. The rest of the time they had demagogue Slopey-D characters like you claiming that they had to collaborate with kharijaan and bring a "new better system" because everyone else was competing to impose their own "better system." You are no Afghan nationalist - you are a bent over, failed in the West wants to experiment on the East nitwit.

Nobody should have the right to impose anything over the people.

Should is exactly the problem. And Right is the other problem in your vocabulary. Systems EVOLVE to decide these matters and the range of what is acceptable to indigenous peoples over time through suffering, blood, sweat, tears, internal agreements and realizations over what brings progress and what does NOT.

As I've said it countless times before for those caring to understand, my view of the government and the state is that it ought to be bound. The less powers people surrender to them, the better.

Yet like the pom pom bearing Katylyn Jenner Cheer leader you have become - you seek to somehow create a government by FORCE using your escort business customers (Franks, Petreus, McChrystal, etc) that has minimal to NO respect for the issue of even basic government interference. Even your peg leg idiot boyfriend Hanifa Bibi Atmar abuses these powers over frivolous things:

The latest target was Haneef Atmar, the powerful National Security Council adviser to President Ashraf Ghani, who Kabul Taxi mocked over the number of his advisers and their activities.

Atmar, however, did not find this funny.

The National Directorate of Security, the intelligence agency that effectively reports to Atmar, hauled in two reporters it suspected to be behind Kabul Taxi.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/25/us-afghanistan-press-idUSKCN0QU1HF20150825

The more people demand from their government, the less free they will be, guaranteed.

Hanifa and Hamida Bibi? You cannot demand anything from them idiot- they are sycophants and the like that wouldn't last a day without dynacorps cadres 4 people thick guarding their every day actions. Its you playing Imaginary World again with SELECTIVELY deciding when it is OK for government (even if they are illegitimate, installed, and corrupt) when it suits your and Saleh's Slopey-D gains.

You want somebody to regulate your daily moral behavior? Fine, there goes your god-given liberty to regulate your own behavior.

Idiot, MORAL BEHAVIOR is RELATIVE to which society a person lives in. That is what you fail to understand. What an African tribeswoman sees in her indigenous environment vs an Afghan vs an American are variant concepts of what it means to be moral and immoral etc. And even in the heart of the empire whose service men you serve as top escort to there are raging debates:

http://observer.com/2015/08/bill-de-blasio-wont-tolerate-topless-times-square-women/

Yet the African Tribeswoman who generally walks around half nude with a loin cloth would find De Blasio's regulation of these women's behavior as problematic. And besides in NYC, in the rest of America, a woman would be arrested for indecent exposure if she chose to execute this sort of behavior publicly. Theoretically, on the ideal secular democracy with equality for all and no interference these women would be left alone - but a significant portion of Americans (even in liberal NYC) look at this behavior as problematic and something they do not want to expose their young ones to.

In the same way, morality is inherently regulated wherever humans govern. Law systems may initially start off with some modicum of religious law even (e.g. Puritan seed colony that began America in Salem and Plymouth Rock). Subsequent reevaluation and indigenous mores will shade and color what is moral and immoral and evolution of these systems.

Yet so long as Slopey -D bas-tards like you exist that want to get corn holed to make some money to keep Afghanistan occupied - there will only be reactionaryism on the one hand vs hyper secular militancy on the other.



You want the government (or foreigners) to build you things and give you things? Fine, but don't complain when they expect you to do things in return like paying lots of taxes or accepting a pay-cheque that is lower than your measured labor as you've to foot the bill for a lazy counterpart as the Commies would have it.

Quit wasting my time with debating libertarian vs republican vs democratic concepts we are all aware of. You cannot on the one hand espouse libertarian values where you sit on your idiot as-s in Virginia but then demand the bill be footed to occupy multiple nation states based on some retarded view of how empires are justified in doing so but indigenous people have no right to develop and enact responses accordingly.

You want to excuse Barbarism as those carrying it out happen to be in your circle of politics? Fine, but don't complain when they come to your home and force your daughter into marriage with them or insert a bomb in your recutm in your case. lol ahhah

Nah, Slopey, seems as if Afghans, based even on the recent polls that mirror this 2010 poll, continue to blame NATO and occupation and Slopey-D bas-tards like you for such events because they, unlike you understand the ethical dilemma of blaming a poorly equipped insurgent force having to deal with an occupying super power force:

U.S. and NATO officials have used the figures to denounce the Taliban to win popular support for an increased presence that aims to clear out Taliban strongholds this fall. But ordinary Afghans have largely rejected this good guy-bad guy narrative and continue blaming the civilian deaths on the international forces, said experts who have studied the issue.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/13/AR2010081305821.html

For a deeply scarred, fractured and frustrated population, the more political channels there are for people to identify with and express their grievances through, the better.

You mean if your boyfriends Tom and Bill impose such systems, right? Please add that qualifier to your idiotic statements.

The party that chooses to initiate mass violence upon another is the enemy.

LOOOOL. What a laughable attempt at utilizing one sided ethics Slopey. Even in that same article the average Afghan DISAGREES with who it is that is INITIATING the mass violence:

and that the presence of foreigners in their neighborhoods brings unwanted attention from insurgents.

"The [Afghan] government, NATO, the U.N., the American forces -- they make a big, big wall of cement and they are inside," said Zafar Khanbahar, 25, Azizi's cousin. "So the insurgents, to try to kill the troops, whenever they explode [a bomb], the people in the public are hit. I blame all of them, the government, NATO and the insurgents -- all."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/13/AR2010081305821.html

That is the COMMON SENSE that the average Afghan displays. Unlike an ideological driven, minority sub group derived crypto fascist like you - they understand cause and effect the way that the overwhelming majority of the Muslim world sees it. Which is namely that Ghani and Hamida Bibi are not some little Ghandi Mandela style gurus sitting in the middle of Kabul espousing non violence while roaches like you throw flower petals on them and then some big hairy nihilistic black turban beast comes and attacks you randomly and wantonly.

Regarding the rectal part - that seems to be your forte and fetish. Seems like your suppressive techniques to correct that deviant behavior are not helping.




When Ghani offers to talk and acomodiate Taliban yet they who chose violence instead, then the Taliban did indeed place themselves as the enemy of the nation.

Ghani? Talk? While signing accords that erase Afghan autonomy expects people to view him seriously as King Cockroach and you expect people to view your argument with any seriousness whatsoever? LOOOOL. The enemy of the nation is the one that signed off on re-initiating the very night raids that resulted in many civilian casualties like this famous Gardez case:

http://www.worldcantwait.net/index.php/features/afghanistan-pakistan/6238-made-in-america-the-gardez-massacre

That bald- headed monkey faced imp is only friends to the types of people that fellate Hanifa Bibi Atmar and Saleh, namely you!



The more political groups we have in Afghanistan who are forced to compete for people's attention instead of waging mass violence, the better it will be for the nation in my opinion.

Your opinion is one thing and facts and complexities and intricacies are completely another things. The former is stupidity and the latter is well thought out historical and precedent based wisdom laced approach.

Nothing reduces the power of the government than political competition, as each suspicious group seeks to reduce the powers of the other.

or, fool, as some argue, it creates a hidden plutocracy and merely serves to maintain stability as the elite govern from behind the veil while candidates are beholden to them to even exist on the nation stage. One can see this clearly when we see how many of your bosom buddies here had to stick their face into Sheldon Adelson's crotch.

The real reason behind the immense problems today is that the only valid opposition to the current elite are the Taliban. What political vehicle do people have to FORCE the elite to clean up? Nothing.

Because of people like you that are retarded enough to justify the elites as the "better of two options" to implement your true goal which is killing as many Pashtuns as you can with foreign hands and using a smoke screen set of illogical conclusions (e.g. alliances with empires are required, G8 membership) so as implement your own Saleh Slopey-D supremacy.

This is what inflates the ranks of the Taliban to the benefit of our Pakistani enemy.

And what sustains the reactionary movement is your set of boyfriends, Davy Petreus, John Allen, etc.


Ps: I’m glad you finally adopted a “persianist” spelling of “ Quran” hahah dumbass.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=46504

There is that dyslexia or brain damage in your case shining through. The common spelling is Q-U-R-A-N now having replaced K-O-R-A-N. You on the other hand, like your later ego Daruish and the other persiofascists, as seen in that thread all spell it Q-O-R-H-AN.

Dam-n, you are dumb Daruish, you cannot even remember how you spelled something twenty times 3 months ago. Kabob sales must not be keeping your brain off the early Alzheimers path.

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