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  • Pashtuns Don't Want a Talibanistan.

    By Hurmat Ali Shah

    An article on Foreign Policy "Islamic Republic of Talibanistan" argues that since Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand Line have waged jihad for an Islamic system or sharia law, why don't they implement sharia law in this region? The author proposes that the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), other Pashtun areas in Pakistan, and the Taliban controlled areas in Afghanistan should be carved into a new state or semi-state, letting people be ruled by barbarian laws, codes, and customs.

    Proposals and assertions like these are deeply flawed on multiple levels. The first problem is the kind of coverage such problematic assertions, generalizations, and misconceptions get from mainstream media. The distance such proposals have from ground realities often blurs the facts when it is received by foreign audience. Such misconceptions are often formed by a lack of assessment of actual political and social conditions of the areas in question, which are further aggravated by the Establishment's philosophy of "Pushtuns' love for traditions."

    The established understanding of Pushtun culture as a harsh way of life and a set of codes that institutionalize and perpetuate barbarity is what informs the nature of such proposals and assertions. Pushtuns' mistreatment of women and their readiness to spill blood over honor issues are presented as natural precursors to barbarity of the Taliban. The ethnic composition of Taliban is another thing that such spin-masters employ to present Taliban as a genuine Pashtun-culture driven force and as true representatives of Pushtuns.

    What they forget in this mix is that the Pashtun society used to be one of the most progressive in the region, which had progressive political and social movements at the grassroots level. The Khudai Khidmtagar movement led by Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan (aka Bacha Khan) and then the subsequent sway of National Awami Party speak volumes about the recent political and social nature of Pashtun society on the Pakistan side. The Saur Revolution and the progressive regime of former Afghan President Daud Khan are events of recent past. This past is not that far away from the present that it should escape the considerations of such spin-masters.

    History is replete with movements that betray the popular narrative about Pashtun society being a religious and backward one. The Peer-e-Rokhan movement stands at the pinnacle of a long series of rebellions against the Islamist imperialists. This one movement in particular stands out because the forces of Mughal combined both the well-trained military and well-versed clerical powers to colonize Pashtun lands. The leaders of Sufi-informed Pashtun nationalist movement, Peer-e-Rokhan, and his lieutenants faced the wrath of official clergy, Akhundarweza, and his supporters and were confronted many times with Mughal armies. Yet, they triumphed despite all the odds.

    Another such event in history is the debacle of Tehreek-e-Mujahideen, a movement led by Shah Ismaeel, which misled vulnerable Pashtun tribesmen to support his movement in the name of religion. Pashtuns were deceived by the sincere façade and bravado of jihad by the mujahideen, but after the help of Pashtun tribesmen when they defeated Sikh rulers of Punjab, they started to come to their true colors. Their mindless interference with Pashtuns' secular way of life, their grip on power, and their insistence for the jihad council to be the decision-making body rather than the secular jirga awakened Pashtuns; they were driven out of the Pashtun lands and were left in the wild to be hunted down by Sikh armies while their desperate cries in name of Islam fell on deaf ears of Pashtuns whom they had betrayed earlier by using religion as a bait.

    Mirwais Khan Hotak (aka Mirwais Neeka) was raised in rebellion against the brutal Iranian regime, which ruled the Pashtun lands in the name of religion. Often fatwas were used against the forces of Mirwais to deter them from fighting for their freedom. The Saffavid dynasty-backed religious clerics used the established edicts in Muslim jurisprudence that declared any uprising against the 'Hamkim-e-Waqt' as 'fitna.' Mirwais Neeka took many pains to travel to Mecca and get a fitwa from religious authorities there to legitimize his uprising. These tales of the past should be reminded to such spin-masters who think the Taliban are the true representatives of Pashtun culture and their way of life.

    Pushtuns have fought extremists in the past. They have stood firm against the onslaught of cruelty and brutality. No matter how vocal these self-declared experts on the history and culture of the region try to analyze Pashtuns, the recent sacrifices of Pashtuns against the Taliban demonstrate the true nature of Pashtun society. Pashtuns are the first victims of Talibinisation, and they did not ask for it; Pashtuns have suffered the most at the hands of the Taliban than any other ethnic group in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Therefore, these so-called experts should stop presenting that Talibanistan is what Pashtuns have been wanting all along.


  • #2
    Wow, LOOOL. First of all his Mir Wais Neeka example backfires. Going to Mecca to obtain a sunni fatwa against Shiite safavid Iran is the devil in the details.

    This is how far you have sunk you piece of feces? Quoting a crypto Ahmadi/ Shiite Farhat Taj equivalent?

    Here is his linked in page:
    https://pk.linkedin.com/pub/hurmat-ali-shah/25/58a/787

    Here is his facebook:
    https://www.facebook.com/hurmatali.shah

    Sooo, a guy with poor historical acumen, a pot belly (like most of his mad red hatter buddies), and a crypto ideology who says his agenda is to clearly be an agent of militant secularism in his linkedin page is a trust worthy source???

    and he ascribes to your momma Ayaan Hirsi Ali?

    What is this? Farhat Taj Andersenzai part 2 the new, improved version?

    LOOOOOL - gotta do better than that girl - if you are gonna be the best b-itch on the corner turning tricks to whitey you need to wisen up!
    Attached Files
    "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

    Comment


    • #3
      Why don't we see what the non crypto agenda, sunni majority really says?

      http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/15/wo...stan.html?_r=0

      But the Taliban’s rule has still proved attractive, or at least tolerable, to many rural Afghans who have endured decades of war. Residents of other parts of Helmand, who find themselves caught in the cross hairs of the war, have sought out Baghran’s relative security, migrating away from the front lines.

      “People are suffering under constant war, but we don’t suffer those kinds of problems,” said Hasti Khan, a farmer in Baghran.
      and

      Although the harsher ways have prevailed in Baghran, residents’ complaints often had less to do with the Taliban’s treatment of them than the deprivations that have taken hold: the lack of good doctors and the need to travel to other districts to buy staples, like cooking oil. And some said they were saddened by the lack of opportunities for their children, many of whom tend to work in the opium fields alongside their fathers.

      Many residents who were interviewed said they were mostly satisfied with the Taliban’s rule. Some agree with the Taliban’s principles, others have come to accept them.

      “I think I like the way of the Taliban,” Mr. Baghrani, the shopkeeper, said. “You live simply, the way you have been created.”
      Oh but wait, who is having problems...?

      Not everyone, however, has been able to live simply. Ethnic Hazaras had been allowed relatively safe passage through Baghran, on several important market roads, in recent years. But over a month ago that suddenly changed: Hazara elders and other residents said that the Taliban’s district commander, Mullah Ghulam Hazrat Shahidmal, warned that Hazaras would no longer be allowed through, in what was seen as a troubling step back toward the targeting of minorities by the insurgents.
      So Slopey- D (Daruish aka Azmall D-ick)'s cousins aren't too happy... on a side note fascinating that these folks quote the biography of the Iron Amir, Abdurrahman Khan who comitted ten thousand more excesses against Hazaras than even this - because he demanded "his progeny seek out access to the sea" - indicating he was some sort of brilliant forerunner... yet they get diarrhea and fart up a storm when the above is noted.

      Sorry Khaista Bibi - you need to find some more authoratative sources than a Peshawar U morbidly obese crypto minority, secular militant to prove your point.
      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

      Comment


      • #4
        The Afghan-Soviet war changed the elements of the world forever. We will never go back to what the world was. 9/11 made sure to wake up the rest of the world who were not awaken by the Afghan-Soviet war.

        It's been 45 years now that Zbigniew Brzezinski chalked an all or nothing blueprint for how the US can remain the world power for centuries to come.

        The Taliban of yesteryears may not be you cup of tea, and perhaps you will never want the Taliban of tomorrow either. However, an all out war fought by Muslims for Muslims in on the verge. You no longer have a choice, you have to choose a side.

        Jihad has taken a new meaning in 2015.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tamim View Post
          The Afghan-Soviet war changed the elements of the world forever. We will never go back to what the world was. 9/11 made sure to wake up the rest of the world who were not awaken by the Afghan-Soviet war.

          It's been 45 years now that Zbigniew Brzezinski chalked an all or nothing blueprint for how the US can remain the world power for centuries to come.

          The Taliban of yesteryears may not be you cup of tea, and perhaps you will never want the Taliban of tomorrow either. However, an all out war fought by Muslims for Muslims in on the verge. You no longer have a choice, you have to choose a side.

          Jihad has taken a new meaning in 2015.
          Its unfortunate. I read Brzezinski's recent set of quotes in which he clearly states the best option is to "keep the barbarians divided." And though I strongly disagree with his definition of "barbarian" and I suspect he was using it in reference to Roman history - one cannot deny the stark divisions fostered in various regions of the world (Latin America, Africa, Middle East, Central and South Asia) are exactly what he wants to maintain for what is called "Full Spectrum Dominance."

          What has happened is that the rural urban divide/elite vs common man divide has taken on a secular vs religious character. And within these divisions are various agendas. On the one hand you have state players utilizing various subsegments of religionists and on the other you have various minorities (e.g. Maronites in Lebanon, Alawites in Syria) hijacking the secularist agendas because they fear sunni ascendancy.

          I never accepted Hungtington's Clash of Civilizations theorem but I think these groups are accelerating toward the precipice.

          Instead of a healthy situation that establishes a conveyor belt of idea building that prevails in all autonomous nation states in which rural peoples are allowed to implement their rigid or unrigid tribal local values (a pertinent comparison might be state's rights) and urban dwellers near universities foster their own culture ---> and there is Brownian motion between members of these societies to permit a gradual gradient of change and exchange - what we have is a world where elites and those aforementioned take on the urban mantle and view themselves as the harbingers of enforced change and then a reactionary rural segment pushes back and is whipped up into a frenzy. As they say, for every action there is an equal and opposite one... When bombs drop the poor and those that cannot leave end up fighting first what comes in from abroad and then each other and heels get dug in.

          The steps that need to happen are:
          1. Regional unity with an understanding that whatever differences there are- no matter how stark or how historical - what is being pushed from abroad has decimated other tribal units and peoples into oblivion ... so they gotta stand together.
          2. Minorities and minority thinkers cannot use crypto techniques and subversion and collusion to implement change by force. They have to accept their status and be offered protection/dignity/humanity in return.
          3. Rural dwellers and urban dwellers need to recreate and refoster exchanges in the stability period. If what takes over is rural and religious - it cannot by force impose rural values onto urban centers and vice versa.
          4. Never, never accept economic dependence.
          "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

          Comment


          • #6
            The only way for the Muslim world to overcome Western dominance and influence is to unite. They need to find a way.

            Today, Muslims are killing Muslims due to differences in belief. If that is not case, then they hate each other due to ethnic lines. If that is not the case, then they hate each other due to class differences. If that is not the case, then hate each other due to gender....etc.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Khostai View Post
              By Hurmat Ali Shah

              An article on Foreign Policy "Islamic Republic of Talibanistan" argues that since Pashtuns on both sides of the Durand Line have waged jihad for an Islamic system or sharia law, why don't they implement sharia law in this region? The author proposes that the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA), other Pashtun areas in Pakistan, and the Taliban controlled areas in Afghanistan should be carved into a new state or semi-state, letting people be ruled by barbarian laws, codes, and customs.

              Proposals and assertions like these are deeply flawed on multiple levels. The first problem is the kind of coverage such problematic assertions, generalizations, and misconceptions get from mainstream media. The distance such proposals have from ground realities often blurs the facts when it is received by foreign audience. Such misconceptions are often formed by a lack of assessment of actual political and social conditions of the areas in question, which are further aggravated by the Establishment's philosophy of "Pushtuns' love for traditions."

              The established understanding of Pushtun culture as a harsh way of life and a set of codes that institutionalize and perpetuate barbarity is what informs the nature of such proposals and assertions. Pushtuns' mistreatment of women and their readiness to spill blood over honor issues are presented as natural precursors to barbarity of the Taliban. The ethnic composition of Taliban is another thing that such spin-masters employ to present Taliban as a genuine Pashtun-culture driven force and as true representatives of Pushtuns.

              What they forget in this mix is that the Pashtun society used to be one of the most progressive in the region, which had progressive political and social movements at the grassroots level. The Khudai Khidmtagar movement led by Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan (aka Bacha Khan) and then the subsequent sway of National Awami Party speak volumes about the recent political and social nature of Pashtun society on the Pakistan side. The Saur Revolution and the progressive regime of former Afghan President Daud Khan are events of recent past. This past is not that far away from the present that it should escape the considerations of such spin-masters.

              History is replete with movements that betray the popular narrative about Pashtun society being a religious and backward one. The Peer-e-Rokhan movement stands at the pinnacle of a long series of rebellions against the Islamist imperialists. This one movement in particular stands out because the forces of Mughal combined both the well-trained military and well-versed clerical powers to colonize Pashtun lands. The leaders of Sufi-informed Pashtun nationalist movement, Peer-e-Rokhan, and his lieutenants faced the wrath of official clergy, Akhundarweza, and his supporters and were confronted many times with Mughal armies. Yet, they triumphed despite all the odds.

              Another such event in history is the debacle of Tehreek-e-Mujahideen, a movement led by Shah Ismaeel, which misled vulnerable Pashtun tribesmen to support his movement in the name of religion. Pashtuns were deceived by the sincere façade and bravado of jihad by the mujahideen, but after the help of Pashtun tribesmen when they defeated Sikh rulers of Punjab, they started to come to their true colors. Their mindless interference with Pashtuns' secular way of life, their grip on power, and their insistence for the jihad council to be the decision-making body rather than the secular jirga awakened Pashtuns; they were driven out of the Pashtun lands and were left in the wild to be hunted down by Sikh armies while their desperate cries in name of Islam fell on deaf ears of Pashtuns whom they had betrayed earlier by using religion as a bait.

              Mirwais Khan Hotak (aka Mirwais Neeka) was raised in rebellion against the brutal Iranian regime, which ruled the Pashtun lands in the name of religion. Often fatwas were used against the forces of Mirwais to deter them from fighting for their freedom. The Saffavid dynasty-backed religious clerics used the established edicts in Muslim jurisprudence that declared any uprising against the 'Hamkim-e-Waqt' as 'fitna.' Mirwais Neeka took many pains to travel to Mecca and get a fitwa from religious authorities there to legitimize his uprising. These tales of the past should be reminded to such spin-masters who think the Taliban are the true representatives of Pashtun culture and their way of life.

              Pushtuns have fought extremists in the past. They have stood firm against the onslaught of cruelty and brutality. No matter how vocal these self-declared experts on the history and culture of the region try to analyze Pashtuns, the recent sacrifices of Pashtuns against the Taliban demonstrate the true nature of Pashtun society. Pashtuns are the first victims of Talibinisation, and they did not ask for it; Pashtuns have suffered the most at the hands of the Taliban than any other ethnic group in both Afghanistan and Pakistan. Therefore, these so-called experts should stop presenting that Talibanistan is what Pashtuns have been wanting all along.

              http://www.asafeworldforwomen.org/sa...ibanistan.html
              What an article. This is the true picture of Pashtuns. Perfect secularism by separating Hujra and Jumat. Using religion as a symbol as done by Hotak but the power was always in the hands of Pashtun elites not Mullahs like Taliban now. Pashtun dance,music Tang takor,folklore,mythology,norms and sayngs that Pashto is half infidelity all speak of the original non Islamist nature of Pashtunwali.

              Comment


              • #8
                [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION]

                Actually this person is blatantly lying

                Hotak actually used religious Fatwas to JUSTIFY rebellion aganst Safawiyyah.

                It's even documented here.

                https://books.google.com/books?id=bY8ck6iktikC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=Mirwais+ Hotak+Fatwa&source=bl&ots=HZpM31ouJ4&sig=dQ6DWDiPI sdibgPc-3E28ihtf-8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCGoVChMIv4m55ZKvxwIVTJQN Ch0BCwWM#v=onepage&q=Mirwais%20Hotak%20Fatwa&f=fal se

                "In 1709, Mirwais, Chief of the Hotak Ghilzai tribe, mobilized his men to put an end to the domination of Afghanistan by the Shia Safawids. After a pilgrimage to Mecca, he secured a religious edict (fatwa), proclaiming war on the Safawid Govenor, Gurgin."

                Source: P. 29 Culture and Customs of Afghanistan by Hafizullah Emadi


                Who ever wrote this article is blatantly lying and promoting Historical Falsehood

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                  What an article. This is the true picture of Pashtuns. Perfect secularism by separating Hujra and Jumat. Using religion as a symbol as done by Hotak but the power was always in the hands of Pashtun elites not Mullahs like Taliban now. Pashtun dance,music Tang takor,folklore,mythology,norms and sayngs that Pashto is half infidelity all speak of the original non Islamist nature of Pashtunwali.
                  What words of wisdom - tears come to my eyes! Only such pearls of guidance could emanate from a Pashtun who is both Shinwari and Safi at the same time and so he truly understands the Pashtun history.

                  New member? Just registered? Post an introduction and tell us more about yourself!


                  Buckloop/Badlun's thoughts will be in an amazing book one day called Buckloop's Amazing Adventures by Buckloop/Badlun.

                  On front page he will argue that Jesus was only from one woman, Adam from no parents, and he is also now unique product somehow because of his previous claims of being Shinwari one day and Safi next day of being product of two men!

                  Next pages will be on Tang Takor and Osho and next chapter will be on Pashto words for sexy acts since he somehow is only Pashtun that knows full usage of these words.

                  Then he will be known forever as the man that took Agrarian society and in two years made it fully modern with high rise towers and g-ay marriage.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Brown Skinned Savage View Post
                    [MENTION=1034]Badlun[/MENTION]

                    Actually this person is blatantly lying

                    Hotak actually used religious Fatwas to JUSTIFY rebellion aganst Safawiyyah.

                    It's even documented here.

                    https://books.google.com/books?id=bY8ck6iktikC&pg=PA29&lpg=PA29&dq=Mirwais+ Hotak+Fatwa&source=bl&ots=HZpM31ouJ4&sig=dQ6DWDiPI sdibgPc-3E28ihtf-8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFIQ6AEwCGoVChMIv4m55ZKvxwIVTJQN Ch0BCwWM#v=onepage&q=Mirwais%20Hotak%20Fatwa&f=fal se

                    "In 1709, Mirwais, Chief of the Hotak Ghilzai tribe, mobilized his men to put an end to the domination of Afghanistan by the Shia Safawids. After a pilgrimage to Mecca, he secured a religious edict (fatwa), proclaiming war on the Safawid Govenor, Gurgin."

                    Source: P. 29 Culture and Customs of Afghanistan by Hafizullah Emadi


                    Who ever wrote this article is blatantly lying and promoting Historical Falsehood
                    Mirwais Nika was not a Mullah. He was a great Pashtun nationalist and being a wise statesman he just might have used a religious Fatwa againt Iranis to make his hold on power further stronger. His this act does not fall in category of Political Islam or Radical Islam or Islamism of today's Pashtun Taliban.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                      Mirwais Nika was not a Mullah. He was a great Pashtun nationalist and being a wise statesman he just might have used a religious Fatwa againt Iranis to make his hold on power further stronger. His this act does not fall in category of Political Islam or Radical Islam or Islamism of today's Pashtun Taliban.
                      Oh my, dual nature wise statesman and nationalist like dual nature Shinwari and Safi male paternity lineage where two dad make one Badlun?
                      New member? Just registered? Post an introduction and tell us more about yourself!


                      Osho was also Mullah but a pervert Mullah. But Buckloop/Badlun will open the way for even perverts to gain acceptance such is the mercy of the two dad messiah.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                        Mirwais Nika was not a Mullah. He was a great Pashtun nationalist and being a wise statesman he just might have used a religious Fatwa againt Iranis to make his hold on power further stronger. His this act does not fall in category of Political Islam or Radical Islam or Islamism of today's Pashtun Taliban.
                        You don't think so? I would say this is precisely what political dimension of Islam entails, the integration of religious principles in State Policy. Here he applied religious principles for a solution to political issue.

                        That is the meaning of Theocratic rule. I don't think you can get around that.

                        Plus it is incorrect to say he was a Pashtun Nationalist, because he was rivals with the Sadozai clan who were allies with the Persians. This contradicts a "Pan Pashtun" identity.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Brown Skinned Savage View Post
                          You don't think so? I would say this is precisely what political dimension of Islam entails, the integration of religious principles in State Policy. Here he applied religious principles for a solution to political issue.

                          That is the meaning of Theocratic rule. I don't think you can get around that.

                          Plus it is incorrect to say he was a Pashtun Nationalist, because he was rivals with the Sadozai clan who were allies with the Persians. This contradicts a "Pan Pashtun" identity.
                          Religion at that time might have used for the purpose and today may be used for spirituality and morality in politics but making only religious people as political leaders and rulers is something else.

                          Pashtun Nationalism and Pan-Pashtunism are two different things. In Pakistan or Afghanistan Pashtun nationalists like ANP or PMAP or Afghan Millat party etc may oppose each others and may not be Pan- Pashtunists but are Pashtun nationalists as compared to Taliban who are Pashtuns but not Pashtun nationalists but Islamists. Similalry Mirwais might had differences with Sadozais but he was talking of Afghans/Pashtuns versus Persians.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Badlun View Post
                            Religion at that time might have used for the purpose and today may be used for spirituality and morality in politics but making only religious people as political leaders and rulers is something else.

                            Pashtun Nationalism and Pan-Pashtunism are two different things. In Pakistan or Afghanistan Pashtun nationalists like ANP or PMAP or Afghan Millat party etc may oppose each others and may not be Pan- Pashtunists but are Pashtun nationalists as compared to Taliban who are Pashtuns but not Pashtun nationalists but Islamists. Similalry Mirwais might had differences with Sadozais but he was talking of Afghans/Pashtuns versus Persians.

                            I see Pan--Pashtun and Pashtun Nationalism as one in the same. I see no reason to distinguish because its aims are essentially identical.

                            This is not "relativism"; the clear evidence is that Hotak were at war with some Pashtun tribes, But Hotaks were also allies with Uzbeks and Baluch. Sadozai were allies with Turko-Persian-Kurdish Safawids.

                            This means the battle between them was hardly ethnic but more religiously tinged. There was no Pashtun Nationalism. Pashtun Nationalism is purely a recent invention. even Khushal Khan Khattak was not a "Nationalist" he just didn't want to be under the Mughals.

                            If you'd like to compare historical data to see whose hypothesis, yours or mine is more congruent with the data ....then I'd be happy to go more indepth, please let me know

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Wow I just posted one ertical and the fa.g brigade all jumped on it like there is no tomorow lol.

                              And by the way I do not read what you post I just scroll by and insult you all, becuase thats my new hobby now. lol

                              So here by my other insult to you all. You are all mentaly enslaved fagots, go suck some merican dicks. fagots lol

                              Comment

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