Afghanistan and Taliban peace talks end with promise to meet again

[Insight]

The Soviets also withdrew but the communist government didn't fall until the money, weapons, fuel stopped flowing, after collapse of the Soviet Union. So the wet dream of an armed takeover of Afghanistan will never come true, if the US keeps funding Afghanistan.

Why the Taliban negotiate? I guess their Punjabi masters threatened to put a danda up their rear end.

It is an educated opinion based on the US historical record (Vietnam). Diem regime in Vietnam collapsed after US exit. I don't know why you get offended by this.

Yes, US will keep funding the Kabul regime forever!! Whatever helps you sleep !! Do you get depressed when wars end, and happy when there are wars?

[Al-Afghani]

It is an educated opinion based on the US historical record (Vietnam). Diem regime in Vietnam collapsed after US exit. I don't know why you get offended by this.

Yes, US will keep funding the Kabul regime forever!! Whatever helps you sleep !! Do you get depressed when wars end, and happy when there are wars?

It's true that the US washed its hands of Vietnam and Iraq, but there was popular, grass roots support for that decision and Congress played an important role too. Even Obama's election promise was to end the war in Iraq. But I do not see similar signs in regards to Afghanistan.

[کیش]

ANA is equivalent to a house slave who is a cup bearer to their masters (Europeans)

The Taliban are the field slaves who have it much harder than the ANA in terms of their masters choosing.

They both point to each other and say what horrible traitors they are.

But they are both slaves of Europeans. So both groups are the losers in this game.

[Insight]

It's true that the US washed its hands of Vietnam and Iraq, but there was popular, grass roots support for that decision and Congress played an important role too. Even Obama's election promise was to end the war in Iraq. But I do not see similar signs in regards to Afghanistan.

Obama's decision for a full US withdrawal is an executive decision. Google it.
Congress can not do anything about foreign policy other then pass sanctions. Foreign policy is traditionally the President's own, and not Congress's.

Your drivel is getting boring now, just the same BS of denial LOL

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?p=767945#post767945

[Al-Afghani]

Obama's decision for a full US withdrawal is an executive decision. Google it.
Congress can not do anything about foreign policy other then pass sanctions. Foreign policy is traditionally the President's own, and not Congress's.

Your drivel is getting boring now, just the same BS of denial LOL

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthr...945#post767945

Don't celebrate yet. Wait until the US decides to stop all support to the ANA, and that includes salaries, weapons, ammunition, training, etc. (If ever).

A US withdrawal means Taliban can not tax supply convoys anymore, which is a good thing.

[randolph85]

The Soviets also withdrew but the communist government didn't fall until the money, weapons, fuel stopped flowing, after collapse of the Soviet Union. So the wet dream of an armed takeover of Afghanistan will never come true, if the US keeps funding Afghanistan.

Why the Taliban negotiate? I guess their Punjabi masters threatened to put a danda up their rear end.

Its more embarrassing for the Afghan government and in effect the US to be negotiating with the Taliban considering the nearly trillion dollar war effort to fight a bunch of guys wearing sandles and using Chinese replica AK's in a war which the state department thought would last only a few weeks back in 2001.

It took the Russians 7 years after their invasion to finally pressure the Afg gov't to negotiate with the Muj. It took the Afghan government about 12 years of begging the American government to be allowed to negotiate with the Taliban until the Qatar office was finally founded.

Neither side will fall today but considering how much more money and manpower the US has invested into propping up their puppet government in comparison to the soviets and their puppets vs how small the mujahadin is today compared to the 80s, its quite embarrassing.

[khushal]

Don't celebrate yet. Wait until the US decides to stop all support to the ANA, and that includes salaries, weapons, ammunition, training, etc. (If ever).

A US withdrawal means Taliban can not tax supply convoys anymore, which is a good thing.

Supply will always come from the south which is why the Pakis and before them the Brits had leverage over the rulers in Kabul. Pakistan could always blockade Afghanistan and Pashtuns could always blockade Shamoli which is why your hero Tajik Nationalist A H Masood could never really rule productively or long term. If a Tajik is going to rule, he has to appeal to Pashtuns and a nationalist is appealing to no one in today's Afghanistan.

Its all about Geography and who controls it.

[Al-Afghani]

Supply will always come from the south which is why the Pakis and before them the Brits had leverage over the rulers in Kabul. Pakistan could always blockade Afghanistan and Pashtuns could always blockade Shamoli which is why your hero Tajik Nationalist A H Masood could never really rule productively or long term. If a Tajik is going to rule, he has to appeal to Pashtuns and a nationalist is appealing to no one in today's Afghanistan.

Its all about Geography and who controls it.

The new Iran deal makes the idea of a Pashtun blockade on Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazaras less likely.

[Al-Afghani]

Its more embarrassing for the Afghan government and in effect the US to be negotiating with the Taliban considering the nearly trillion dollar war effort to fight a bunch of guys wearing sandles and using Chinese replica AK's in a war which the state department thought would last only a few weeks back in 2001.

It took the Russians 7 years after their invasion to finally pressure the Afg gov't to negotiate with the Muj. It took the Afghan government about 12 years of begging the American government to be allowed to negotiate with the Taliban until the Qatar office was finally founded.

Neither side will fall today but considering how much more money and manpower the US has invested into propping up their puppet government in comparison to the soviets and their puppets vs how small the mujahadin is today compared to the 80s, its quite embarrassing.

That is a testament to Pakistan's cunning. Without whose safe haven for Taliban and Mujahedin fighters this war would have been concluded long ago.

[ComradePashtun]

Randolph,

It was not an objective that every single Talib be wiped out and any resistance against the invading army pacified. The U.S. military intervention was to overthrow the Talib movement and alter the political authority where the new dispensation is preserved. This is achieved and is almost certainly to remain intact, not because it was solely done through the use of force but with the convenience of the fact that the people of Afghanistan does not want to be ruled by Talibs and wants a participatory government. You can go on and criticize it endlessly but they still consider to live with the current government than Talibs the only alternative.

It is embarrassing for Talibs to come around their grousing that they will never talk to the government which we now see them sending their daal and curry munching mullah from Karachi.

The Afghan government is too strong for Taliban and will eventually defeat Talibs. Pakistan can no longer sustain them and they will be more of a liability than an asset any longer in to the future.

[ComradePashtun]

Embarrassing times for proxies on daal. ;-/

[marwat]

That is a testament to Pakistan's cunning. Without whose safe haven for Taliban and Mujahedin fighters this war would have been concluded long ago.

probably in a week

[marwat]

Supply will always come from the south which is why the Pakis and before them the Brits had leverage over the rulers in Kabul. Pakistan could always blockade Afghanistan and Pashtuns could always blockade Shamoli which is why your hero Tajik Nationalist A H Masood could never really rule productively or long term. If a Tajik is going to rule, he has to appeal to Pashtuns and a nationalist is appealing to no one in today's Afghanistan.

Its all about Geography and who controls it.

lol khara, did you recall any geography before british?

[randolph85]

That is a testament to Pakistan's cunning. Without whose safe haven for Taliban and Mujahedin fighters this war would have been concluded long ago.

That would be to admit that Pakistan has beaten 2 superpowers by way of their politicking without giving credit to the small portion of Afghans who have never been bought off by money or the threat of death. If it was about money or sanctuary, than this war would of been over in 2001. If this were about personal ambition, would the Taliban be on the side of a sorry state like Pakistan or would they have joined hands with the American superpower like every other "Islamic" group has in the country?

According to you if it wasn't for the cunning of the likes of amin, karmal, and najib, the Russians would have never been able to operate out of Afg lol

[randolph85]

Randolph,

It was not an objective that every single Talib be wiped out and any resistance against the invading army pacified. The U.S. military intervention was to overthrow the Talib movement and alter the political authority where the new dispensation is preserved. This is achieved and is almost certainly to remain intact, not because it was solely done through the use of force but with the convenience of the fact that the people of Afghanistan does not want to be ruled by Talibs and wants a participatory government. You can go on and criticize it endlessly but they still consider to live with the current government than Talibs the only alternative.

It is embarrassing for Talibs to come around their grousing that they will never talk to the government which we now see them sending their daal and curry munching mullah from Karachi.

The Afghan government is too strong for Taliban and will eventually defeat Talibs. Pakistan can no longer sustain them and they will be more of a liability than an asset any longer in to the future.

I don't criticize an inclusive order, it is the only way out of this mess. You are talking as if the American campaign against Afghanistan was based on the wishes of the Afghan people, give me a break. People are fickle, they will support what is best for them in that point and time. Afghans are no different and if the Chinese invaded the country and ousted the Americans tomorrow investing even more money than the Americans did yesterday, the people supporting the American invasion would be called traitors.

Thousands attend Commie parade, thousands attend muj parade, thousands attend Taliban parade, thousands attend Karzai parade. Who knows whats next? Thousands attend Mullah Omar/Ghani parade.

Both sides have deviated from their ideologies. Talibs now talking because they are under Paki pressure and the Afg gov't and most importantly their American handlers approving it. Don't forget when Kharzai wanted to talk to the Taliban in the early 2000's and was shot down by his handlers.

From the outside looking in though, the Afghan gov't with American approval trying to talk to the Taliban is far more of a capitulation considering the countless billions/trillion poured into the war effort against anti-gov't elements than the Taliban agreeing to talk. If one were to say these things were equal would be to say that a Trillion dollars in the war effort and 14 years of propping up a puppet government was equal to the sandel wearing fake Chinese AK toting Taliban ideology of an Islamic Emirate.

Who looks better or worse in that equation?