Taliban supporters and Pakistan

[marwat]

Marwat ran away from an argument I was making about their hero Ghaffar Khan being a hypocrite when he preached non violence in pakistan while at the same time he was preaching and backing a very violent man Najib who aided in killing 2 million afghans and displacing more than 1/3 of the afghan population that led to pakistan's long term leverage over afghanistan. Very similar to how Imran khan does when he says that jihad is OK in Afghanistan but not OK in Pakistan.

well i don't want to engage myself in heavy arguments for the sake of point scoring, the reason is i don't have enough time and i have other better things to do.
Ghaffar khan have my respect but i don't buy his non violence too even his son wali khan and Ghani khan opposed his views, and was of the view to pick arms against Bhutto regime. but then again you are repeating the same old mantra that he supported Najib. may be you don't have enough insight of geo politics and the complex relationship between pakistan Afghanistan and pashtun nationalist. you are like those punjo guys who take things like the whole world is revolving around pakistan.
tell me how he supported Najib and why you don't agree with that. i would love to answer your mythos.

[tilla_jogian]

since i caught you brain dead, so don't act like you have some fun. the message is clear yes, that is the reason these kharsadar were begging for mercy when taliban were slaughtering them. do you want me to post some videos to have some fun?

Your loving Taliban are being slaughtered like pigs by Pak army jawans and F-16. I can pass your ID to ISI, so be carefull what you say on internet. Now PA is about to clear last area from Taliban pigs. After that PAF may bomb Afghanis if they don't do anything against terrorists.

[marwat]

Your loving Taliban are being slaughtered like pigs by Pak army jawans and F-16. I can pass your ID to ISI, so be carefull what you say on internet. Now PA is about to clear last area from Taliban pigs. After that PAF may bomb Afghanis if they don't do anything against terrorists.

perhaps you forgot that Moulvi abdul aziz is challenging your state there sitting in capital while enjoying pocket money from the government.

[Insight]

The Taliban and Pakistan depend on each other for different reasons. One side gives sanctuary to the other in the hopes that it will be a client state against Indian interests and the other uses Pakistan's delusions of Afghanistan becoming a province of Pakistan to use its territory and favor.

The Taliban only work with Pakistan because their survival as a military force depends on safe sanctuary, not because they care for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis probably don't care for Pakistan for that matter. If you look objectively at the Taliban-Pakistan relationship, who has actually gotten the better of this arrangement? The Paki state has seen regime change, losses to their economy which are unmeasurable, foreign strikes, loss of prestige, isolation, uncontrollable militant groups who swear allegiance to the Afghan Taliban, loss of military and civilian life. This rag tag Taliban is still a force 20 plus years later because of Pakis delusions of grandeur.

I have never heard the Taliban bestow such beautiful words on Pakistan as Ghani or Karzai ever have.

The Mujahadin of the 80s didn't love America and America didn't love it, same with the Karzai/America relationship.

This post briefly and concisely explains the dynamics of the conflict. Yet, I don't think it meets DSM's standard because he is specifically labeling anyone who tries to objectively explain the conflict as a "Taliban supporter" as the title states. Not really expecting an objective response from him.

[khushal]

DSM, why are you erasing my posts? What I said basically explains the perspective of what people on the ground are thinking.

The Afghan gov basically is employed by the entity that fund it just like the Paki gov. Its job is to deliver the people whole sale to its employer and it can not be done becasue of what I have said.

Stop erasing my posts because you disagree with them. You should instead challenge them.

[Khostai]

sure they did.
https://books.google.com/books?id=fZ...chools&f=false

That was PDPA I am talking about the current goverment and school you dum ghul.

[DSM0305]

The Taliban and Pakistan depend on each other for different reasons. One side gives sanctuary to the other in the hopes that it will be a client state against Indian interests and the other uses Pakistan's delusions of Afghanistan becoming a province of Pakistan to use its territory and favor.

The Taliban only work with Pakistan because their survival as a military force depends on safe sanctuary, not because they care for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis probably don't care for Pakistan for that matter. If you look objectively at the Taliban-Pakistan relationship, who has actually gotten the better of this arrangement? The Paki state has seen regime change, losses to their economy which are unmeasurable, foreign strikes, loss of prestige, isolation, uncontrollable militant groups who swear allegiance to the Afghan Taliban, loss of military and civilian life. This rag tag Taliban is still a force 20 plus years later because of Pakis delusions of grandeur.

I have never heard the Taliban bestow such beautiful words on Pakistan as Ghani or Karzai ever have.

The Mujahadin of the 80s didn't love America and America didn't love it, same with the Karzai/America relationship.

I think most people don't understand the question I ask. If we look at things objectively, then the question is: Why would Taliban or its supporter hate Pakistan.
This is the question in hand. In the end of the day it doesn't matter who gets most of the relation. Whats matter is the reason for hate against a certain thing, in this case Pakistan.

Lets say object A and object B have a symbiotic relation. They both depend on each other to achieve its objection. The question is, why would object A hate object B.

For now all the responses I got is basically trying to explain what benefit Taliban have from Pakistan, or comparing it to USA and the ''mujahadeen'' relation in the past. While I can find in matter of minutes many reason to why they would hate each other; yet, vice versa many of you cant find any reason to hate Pakistan.

What I am trying to say is that you guys aren't answering the question in hand, and are unreasonable accusing me of ignoring the answers.

Basically under the Taliban regime the relation with Pakistan were great, so I don't see why people who supports Taliban suddenly change their mind about Pakistan despite the fact that the relation between Pakistan and Taliban didn't change.

[DSM0305]

This post briefly and concisely explains the dynamics of the conflict. Yet, I don't think it meets DSM's standard because he is specifically labeling anyone who tries to objectively explain the conflict as a "Taliban supporter" as the title states. Not really expecting an objective response from him.

I want you to pin point or quote a single post of mine where I labeled anyone Taliban supporter.

You in the other hand just accused me of something without any prove or reference. Basically your posts from the get go weren't objective to begin with.

[DSM0305]

DSM, why are you erasing my posts? What I said basically explains the perspective of what people on the ground are thinking.

The Afghan gov basically is employed by the entity that fund it just like the Paki gov. Its job is to deliver the people whole sale to its employer and it can not be done becasue of what I have said.

Stop erasing my posts because you disagree with them. You should instead challenge them.

I deleted your post because you were cursing and insulting. I even messaged you for why I deleted your post. Yet, you hadn't the moral high ground to answer me, and out of shame ignored me.

Now you suddenly write in this topic as if I deleted some well written masterpiece.
Even this post of yours contain what I written to you in response for deleting your post. ''Stop erasing my posts because you disagree with them. You should instead challenge them''. Just a rephrased sentence that I wrote to you.
Not only do you start throwing insults when you meet someone who you cant argue with, but also copy their sentences because you yourself haven't the intellectual capability to come up with something original.

The post I deleted was literally one sentence which contained nothing but curse words.

So instead of defaming me, then you can contact [MENTION=2]Admin Khan[/MENTION]
then we can see whether your post was worth anything.

[tilla_jogian]

I think most people don't understand the question I ask. If we look at things objectively, then the question is: Why would Taliban or its supporter hate Pakistan.
This is the question in hand. In the end of the day it doesn't matter who gets most of the relation. Whats matter is the reason for hate against a certain thing, in this case Pakistan.

Lets say object A and object B have a symbiotic relation. They both depend on each other to achieve its objection. The question is, why would object A hate object B.

For now all the responses I got is basically trying to explain what benefit Taliban have from Pakistan, or comparing it to USA and the ''mujahadeen'' relation in the past. While I can find in matter of minutes many reason to why they would hate each other; yet, vice versa many of you cant find any reason to hate Pakistan.

What I am trying to say is that you guys aren't answering the question in hand, and are unreasonable accusing me of ignoring the answers.

Basically under the Taliban regime the relation with Pakistan were great, so I don't see why people who supports Taliban suddenly change their mind about Pakistan despite the fact that the relation between Pakistan and Taliban didn't change.

Internet afghan taliban supporters are basically "islamic pashtunistan" nationalists. They love afghan taliban because of islam and the fact that they are afghan pashtuns. They hate Pakistan because they claim land up to indus belong to them.

All make sense

[randolph85]

I think most people don't understand the question I ask. If we look at things objectively, then the question is: Why would Taliban or its supporter hate Pakistan.
This is the question in hand. In the end of the day it doesn't matter who gets most of the relation. Whats matter is the reason for hate against a certain thing, in this case Pakistan.

Lets say object A and object B have a symbiotic relation. They both depend on each other to achieve its objection. The question is, why would object A hate object B.

For now all the responses I got is basically trying to explain what benefit Taliban have from Pakistan, or comparing it to USA and the ''mujahadeen'' relation in the past. While I can find in matter of minutes many reason to why they would hate each other; yet, vice versa many of you cant find any reason to hate Pakistan.

What I am trying to say is that you guys aren't answering the question in hand, and are unreasonable accusing me of ignoring the answers.

Basically under the Taliban regime the relation with Pakistan were great, so I don't see why people who supports Taliban suddenly change their mind about Pakistan despite the fact that the relation between Pakistan and Taliban didn't change.

Well it is pretty simple from a historical standpoint. Pakistan turned on the Taliban in 2001 at the behest of the US. For years it had offered support and all of the sudden the leadership was arrested and sold to America. Even prior to this during the "honeymoon" phase of the relationship, Pakistan had always tried to control the foreign policy of the country which the Taliban resented, Mullah Zaeef talks about this in his book.

There is no doubt that Pakistan thought Afghanistan as being its backyard no thanks to the world shunning the Taliban regime in favor of recognizing the worthless Mujahadin government, the only government in the world where the President and Prime Minister were actively at war with each other.

A Taliban supporter or the Taliban should not like Pakistan for its nominal support with ulterior motives any more than the Afghan governments of the last 14 years and their supporters should like Pakistan for its nominal support with ulterior motives.

[khushal]

I deleted your post because you were cursing and insulting. I even messaged you for why I deleted your post. Yet, you hadn't the moral high ground to answer me, and out of shame ignored me.

Now you suddenly write in this topic as if I deleted some well written masterpiece.
Even this post of yours contain what I written to you in response for deleting your post. ''Stop erasing my posts because you disagree with them. You should instead challenge them''. Just a rephrased sentence that I wrote to you.
Not only do you start throwing insults when you meet someone who you cant argue with, but also copy their sentences because you yourself haven't the intellectual capability to come up with something original.

The post I deleted was literally one sentence which contained nothing but curse words.

So instead of defaming me, then you can contact [MENTION=2]Admin Khan[/MENTION]
then we can see whether your post was worth anything.

As a moderator, you cant take this personal stuff and abuse your authority to delete posts and ban members just because you disagree with them. Besides you started the insults because you cant debate in a civil manner.

http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=44865&page=4

I just read your messages and you gave me 3 warning within a minute and then banned me. I couldn't access the messages and couldnt even respond since I could not access the account. My insult to Shamlawar was a reaction to his insult to Afghans in general which(my action) was appropriate and his wasn't so he should have been banned. I did not insult you in the post you deleted, I insulted your argument.
I do admit the insult to Badlun was uncalled for but you should have warned me before banning me. You have to grow up.