Why Pakis are so worried

[Azmal]

Just a few days ago head of ISI visited Kabul and tomorrow Nawaz Sharif and Raheel Sharif are coming in. Pakistani foreign office claims it as invitation of President Ashraf Ghani but there was absolutely no mention of visit from Kabul gov—usually the host gov publicize an invitation. Question is why is there a sense of urgency in Pakis?

[DSM0305]

It is the only chance for Pakistan to establish a friendly neighbor. A hostile neighbor like Afghanistan is to dangerous due to its geographic location and cultural conection.

If Afghanistan become friendly with Pakistan, Pakistan will finally have access to energy rich central Asia. Pakistani nationalist tend to underestimate the importance of that by ignoring facts.

Currently Pakistan have access to Tajikistan via China. This is an argument most Pakistani nationalists use as an excuse of independence from Afghanistan, but we all know that 2 + 2 doesn't give 5 regardless of how you twist words and ignore reality.

First of all, Tajikistan is the poorest country in central Asia. Even Afghanistan is far better of than Tajikistan despite the fact that Afghanistan have enduring war for several decades. Even during Soviet union, Tajikistan was the poorest despite the assistance from the super power back than. Today Tajikistans economy is driven by the money that being sent from Russia by Tajik immigrants.

If not Tajikistan, then which country is important in central Asia. Well, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan comes in my mind. One of the most energy rich countries in central Asia. Both which can be accessed through Afghanistan. Even the distance will be extremely short through Afghanistan.

What the other reason that Pakistan needs a friendly Afghanistan. Well, that must be the insurgency. Any insurgency in Pakistan will be almost invaluable in Afghanistan due to its terrain. Afghanistan is basically a natural fortress. Also due to the cultural link, it is easy to blend in for insurgency or intelligence/spy agency.

So despite what Pakistani nationalists says. Afghanistan is extremely important country for them. Pakistan's hardcore meddling in Afghanistan's affair have caused an extreme anti Pakistani sentiment in Afghanistan. So that is extremely risky business for them. So right now it is a golden opportunity for both countries to look pass the past and build a future instead, because now Ashraf ghani is offering them a friendly Afghanistan for an exchange for a friendly Pakistan. So basically, if Pakistan misses this opportunity, then there will never be another chance(literally).

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Considering the magnitude of terrorism in Pakistan and Afghanistan,we need far more engagement than present.Yes we can defeat them.

I am in support of Afghanistan using Pakistani ports and Pakistan having access to CAS through Afghanistan though for the time being,we can't allow direct India-Afg trade through wagah border.

[Azmal]

It is the only chance for Pakistan to establish a friendly neighbor. A hostile neighbor like Afghanistan is to dangerous due to its geographic location and cultural conection.

What cultural connection? Pakistan was created for Muslims primarily of Indian cultural background based on problems and conflicts which pertained strictly with India. What did Pashtuns have to do with it? Absolutely Nothing! Pashtun and Baloch together make less than 15% of Pakistani population moreover Afghanistan has never recognized Pashtuns and Baloch part of Pakistan. Even here in west, you will find Pakistani more with their cultural and racial brothers Indian then Muslims Afghans for there is a deep cultural/racially and historical dissimilarity with two people.

If Afghanistan become friendly with Pakistan, Pakistan will finally have access to energy rich central Asia. Pakistani nationalist tend to underestimate the importance of that by ignoring facts.

Currently Pakistan have access to Tajikistan via China. This is an argument most Pakistani nationalists use as an excuse of independence from Afghanistan, but we all know that 2 + 2 doesn't give 5 regardless of how you twist words and ignore reality.

First of all, Tajikistan is the poorest country in central Asia. Even Afghanistan is far better of than Tajikistan despite the fact that Afghanistan have enduring war for several decades. Even during Soviet union, Tajikistan was the poorest despite the assistance from the super power back than. Today Tajikistans economy is driven by the money that being sent from Russia by Tajik immigrants.

If not Tajikistan, then which country is important in central Asia. Well, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan comes in my mind. One of the most energy rich countries in central Asia. Both which can be accessed through Afghanistan. Even the distance will be extremely short through Afghanistan.

What the other reason that Pakistan needs a friendly Afghanistan. Well, that must be the insurgency. Any insurgency in Pakistan will be almost invaluable in Afghanistan due to its terrain. Afghanistan is basically a natural fortress. Also due to the cultural link, it is easy to blend in for insurgency or intelligence/spy agency.

So despite what Pakistani nationalists says. Afghanistan is extremely important country for them. Pakistan's hardcore meddling in Afghanistan's affair have caused an extreme anti Pakistani sentiment in Afghanistan. So that is extremely risky business for them. So right now it is a golden opportunity for both countries to look pass the past and build a future instead, because now Ashraf ghani is offering them a friendly Afghanistan for an exchange for a friendly Pakistan. So basically, if Pakistan misses this opportunity, then there will never be another chance(literally).

Pakistan has always used her geolocation as a tool to undermine Afghanistan. As one of the Pakistani generally has said "God bless Durand and British for giving us a tremendous strategic advantage over Afghanistan." Indeed to this end Shia Ali Jannah even bestow half of Baluchistan to his Shia brothers Iran--in order to close the cycle around Afghanistan. The key was to keep Afghanistan land lock--anytime they wanted they can shut down tread route and Afghanistan can do nothing. Worst Pakistan still uses terrorism as arm of her foreign--Afghanistan policy. Haqani and co still enjoy safe heaven and were left unaffected from Waziristan operation. The question is what can Afghanistan use as leverage? The answer is very simple---Water---dam on Punjshir, Kunar, Laghman and Kabul rivers. The problem is not Pakis, the Kabul gov and lack of ability. Indeed, the question is even if Pakistan brings their proxy-Taliban to table what are the grantees they will not use terrorism to destroy Afghanistan—Kabul must be burn. We Afghan have lost everything so better to burn Pakistan so in future our children will not be on guard against evil from Pakistan.

[Azmal]

Considering the magnitude of terrorism in Pakistan and Afghanistan,we need far more engagement than present.Yes we can defeat them.

I am in support of Afghanistan using Pakistani ports and Pakistan having access to CAS through Afghanistan though for the time being,we can't allow direct India-Afg trade through wagah border.

I'm just amazed at your naivety. Any clear-minded person knows that the underlying reason for the Islamist enterprise in Pakistan owes itself to the fact that in the absence of any national coherence, political Islam has been the ONLY means at the government's disposal for keeping their synthetic nation glued together. Hence the underlying reason for Pakistan's support of Islamist(terrorist and extremist) movements in Afghanistan and Kashmir had nothing to do with religion or any pretense to moral virtue. For this purpose, over the years Ponjabis conveniently nurtured in Pashton Nationalism place an Islamic Nationalism, which defied geographic boundaries among Muslims. This way, they entered an alliance with the old Pashtun yearning for unity with their brethren in Afghanistan, while keeping the rest of Pakistan intact...hence the Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan. 9-11 change the equation and now the chicken have come back to roast.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I'm just amazed at your naivety. Any clear-minded person knows that the underlying reason for the Islamist enterprise in Pakistan owes itself to the fact that in the absence of any national coherence, political Islam has been the ONLY means at the government's disposal for keeping their synthetic nation glued together. Hence the underlying reason for Pakistan's support of Islamist(terrorist and extremist) movements in Afghanistan and Kashmir had nothing to do with religion or any pretense to moral virtue. For this purpose, over the years Ponjabis conveniently nurtured in Pashton Nationalism place an Islamic Nationalism, which defied geographic boundaries among Muslims. This way, they entered an alliance with the old Pashtun yearning for unity with their brethren in Afghanistan, while keeping the rest of Pakistan intact...hence the Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan. 9-11 change the equation and now the chicken have come back to roast.

Khudey ta gora,da conspiracies nora prezda.

At the end of the day,Pakistan supported insurgency in Afghanistan

*After backstabbed by Afghanistan in the 60's with Bajaur invasion(To kill pashtunistan movement)
*Supporting USA anti soviet compaign in Afghanistan(To develop WMD's under the shadow of supporting the west in Afghanistan)

We all agree that Pakistan did so,anything else you believe is your own fantasy.

Now don't you think we should leave the past and move on?I can assure you that we can move toward prosperity even without Afghanistan albeit slow but can you?

Think purely from nationalist point of view?don't you think after the Bajaur invasion,You should have expected a reaction from Pakistan aswell?

[Kushan Prince]

It is the only chance for Pakistan to establish a friendly neighbor. A hostile neighbor like Afghanistan is to dangerous due to its geographic location and cultural conection.

If Afghanistan become friendly with Pakistan, Pakistan will finally have access to energy rich central Asia. Pakistani nationalist tend to underestimate the importance of that by ignoring facts.

Currently Pakistan have access to Tajikistan via China. This is an argument most Pakistani nationalists use as an excuse of independence from Afghanistan, but we all know that 2 + 2 doesn't give 5 regardless of how you twist words and ignore reality.

First of all, Tajikistan is the poorest country in central Asia. Even Afghanistan is far better of than Tajikistan despite the fact that Afghanistan have enduring war for several decades. Even during Soviet union, Tajikistan was the poorest despite the assistance from the super power back than. Today Tajikistans economy is driven by the money that being sent from Russia by Tajik immigrants.

If not Tajikistan, then which country is important in central Asia. Well, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan comes in my mind. One of the most energy rich countries in central Asia. Both which can be accessed through Afghanistan. Even the distance will be extremely short through Afghanistan.

What the other reason that Pakistan needs a friendly Afghanistan. Well, that must be the insurgency. Any insurgency in Pakistan will be almost invaluable in Afghanistan due to its terrain. Afghanistan is basically a natural fortress. Also due to the cultural link, it is easy to blend in for insurgency or intelligence/spy agency.

So despite what Pakistani nationalists says. Afghanistan is extremely important country for them. Pakistan's hardcore meddling in Afghanistan's affair have caused an extreme anti Pakistani sentiment in Afghanistan. So that is extremely risky business for them. So right now it is a golden opportunity for both countries to look pass the past and build a future instead, because now Ashraf ghani is offering them a friendly Afghanistan for an exchange for a friendly Pakistan. So basically, if Pakistan misses this opportunity, then there will never be another chance(literally).

Well said, i agree on all points.

[tilla_jogian]

It is the only chance for Pakistan to establish a friendly neighbor. A hostile neighbor like Afghanistan is to dangerous due to its geographic location and cultural conection.

If Afghanistan become friendly with Pakistan, Pakistan will finally have access to energy rich central Asia. Pakistani nationalist tend to underestimate the importance of that by ignoring facts.

Currently Pakistan have access to Tajikistan via China. This is an argument most Pakistani nationalists use as an excuse of independence from Afghanistan, but we all know that 2 + 2 doesn't give 5 regardless of how you twist words and ignore reality.

First of all, Tajikistan is the poorest country in central Asia. Even Afghanistan is far better of than Tajikistan despite the fact that Afghanistan have enduring war for several decades. Even during Soviet union, Tajikistan was the poorest despite the assistance from the super power back than. Today Tajikistans economy is driven by the money that being sent from Russia by Tajik immigrants.

If not Tajikistan, then which country is important in central Asia. Well, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan comes in my mind. One of the most energy rich countries in central Asia. Both which can be accessed through Afghanistan. Even the distance will be extremely short through Afghanistan.

What the other reason that Pakistan needs a friendly Afghanistan. Well, that must be the insurgency. Any insurgency in Pakistan will be almost invaluable in Afghanistan due to its terrain. Afghanistan is basically a natural fortress. Also due to the cultural link, it is easy to blend in for insurgency or intelligence/spy agency.

So despite what Pakistani nationalists says. Afghanistan is extremely important country for them. Pakistan's hardcore meddling in Afghanistan's affair have caused an extreme anti Pakistani sentiment in Afghanistan. So that is extremely risky business for them. So right now it is a golden opportunity for both countries to look pass the past and build a future instead, because now Ashraf ghani is offering them a friendly Afghanistan for an exchange for a friendly Pakistan. So basically, if Pakistan misses this opportunity, then there will never be another chance(literally).

Combined GDP of Uzbeki, Afghani, Turki, Tajiki stans is $100 billion.

TAPI and CASA-1000 projects will benefit Afghanistan also. Win win for both countries. But Afghanistan shouldn't expect direct access to India through Wagah, thats our internal matter with India.

India will get gas through TAPI but Pakistan will not allow Indian trucks from Wagah. They can use Karachi port route instead. Pakistan didn't invade Afghanistan remember? Afghanistan should have expected reaction after that.

[khushal]

Pakistan has realized that the militancy groups it uses have gotten out of control and are unmanageable. It has gotten to a point where Paki mullahs in Mosques are openly criticizing the Paki Army which has never happened before.

It is also because China, which exerts influence over Pakistan, has become more involved in peace efforts in Afghanistan as the U.S. military presence draws down to protect their Western border and have economic opportunity in Central Asia.

Does anyone think these two prostitutes Ghani and Ax2 would sign the Durand line with the Paki in exchange for nothing. It wouldn't surprise me.

But as long as Paki exists especially with the Paki army in power because they serve others interests over their own people's, they will always have leverage over Afghanistan.

[ComradePashtun]

Good talk by Mr Nawaz Sharif today. I hope his talks will be vindicated by action if he really desires good and brotherly relations with Afghanistan.

[ComradePashtun]

"Abdul Qadir Baloch, a retired general now serving as the minister for states and frontier regions, said last year’s election of Ghani had finally pushed Pakistan’s leadership to drop support for the Afghan Taliban.

“The Taliban should understand that difficult days are ahead for them,” he said. “The pressure is coming and they will not have anyone to look to for help.”

Baloch said the years when Afghan insurgents enjoyed security and sanctuary inside Pakistan were at an end and that both countries were now “on the same grid, on the same wavelength”.

He said: “They are to be killed and arrested wherever they are. This side will kill them, that side will kill them.”"

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/may/12/afghanistan-and-pakistan-thaw-relations-with-pledge-to-fight-terrorism-together

[ComradePashtun]

Lets give this guy the benefit of doubt till some time.

[Insight]

The Pak military and Kabul puppet regime have been rushing to meet each other ever since Obama made clear (about a dozen times) that he is not changing his decision for a full US withdrawal. This is after Nawaz paid a visit to Washington with Sartaj Aziz asking US to stay (http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/16/...stan-just-yet/), and were told NO. This is after Ghani and Abdullah paid a visit in March, asking the US to stay, and being told NO. This is after China starts talks with Taliban in Beijing last year.

Here is a Pak official upset over US withdrawal. http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/16/...stan-just-yet/

[He said administration officials whom he spoke with agreed with his government’s grim analysis of Afghanistan’s current political and security situations, but said they also gave no indication that they were willing to consider changing their withdrawal plans.


"They do not say they will re-evaluate it, but they do not tell us, ‘no, you are wrong,’" he said. ]

This is what Obama said next to Ghani, and after this, Nawaz and Pak generals started traveling to Kabul LOL


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...4ff_story.html

[President Obama said Tuesday that he would freeze U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan at 9,800 through the end of the year but vowed to end the American war by the end of his presidency.
Obama announced that he would slow the planned withdrawal of U.S. troops after a White House meeting with Afghan President Ashraf Ghani. The decision to keep more U.S. forces in Afghanistan this year was driven by the administration’s confidence in Ghani, whom Obama praised repeatedly. Relations between Ghani’s predecessor, Hamid Karzai, and the U.S. government had been steadily deteriorating for years. Obama lauded Ghani, who took office in September, for taking on “the mantle of commander in chief in a way that we have not seen in the past from an Afghan president.”
But Obama also made it clear that he wouldn’t depart from his current plan to close the remaining U.S. bases in Afghanistan and consolidate the remaining U.S. forces in Kabul by the end of 2016.
“Afghanistan is still a dangerous place,” Obama said. “The way it’s going to become less dangerous is by Afghan security forces* being capable of keeping law and order and security in the country, and that is not going to happen if foreign forces* are continually relied upon.” ]


This comes after extensive Pak and Kabul puppet regime attempts at trying to pressure Obama to change his decision. Ghani talked about manufactured ISIS threat to Afghanistan in his speech to Congress, and Obama stood next to him at a press conference and still affirmed the full US withdrawal.

[tilla_jogian]

Pakistan has realized that the militancy groups it uses have gotten out of control and are unmanageable. It has gotten to a point where Paki mullahs in Mosques are openly criticizing the Paki Army which has never happened before.

It is also because China, which exerts influence over Pakistan, has become more involved in peace efforts in Afghanistan as the U.S. military presence draws down to protect their Western border and have economic opportunity in Central Asia.

Does anyone think these two prostitutes Ghani and Ax2 would sign the Durand line with the Paki in exchange for nothing. It wouldn't surprise me.

But as long as Paki exists especially with the Paki army in power because they serve others interests over their own people's, they will always have leverage over Afghanistan.

Durrand line agreement was already signed in 1919. If Afghanistan can't accept this fact then there is no point to sign anything now. What if Ghani sign it? Couple of years later some new leader will start to cry once again.

Its not like Pakistan is even asking, durrand line issue only exist among minorty of Afghanistan people.

[khushal]

The Pak military and Kabul puppet regime have been rushing to meet each other ever since Obama made clear (about a dozen times) that he is not changing his decision for a full US withdrawal. This is after Nawaz paid a visit to Washington with Sartaj Aziz asking US to stay (http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/16/...stan-just-yet/), and were told NO. This is after Ghani and Abdullah paid a visit in March, asking the US to stay, and being told NO. This is after China starts talks with Taliban in Beijing last year.

Here is a Pak official upset over US withdrawal. http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/16/...stan-just-yet/

[He said administration officials whom he spoke with agreed with his government’s grim analysis of Afghanistan’s current political and security situations, but said they also gave no indication that they were willing to consider changing their withdrawal plans.


"They do not say they will re-evaluate it, but they do not tell us, ‘no, you are wrong,’" he said. ]

This is what Obama said next to Ghani, and after this, Nawaz and Pak generals started traveling to Kabul LOL


http://www.washingtonpost.com/politi...4ff_story.html

[President Obama said Tuesday that he would freeze U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan at 9,800 through the end of the year but vowed to end the American war by the end of his presidency.
Obama announced that he would slow the planned withdrawal of U.S. troops after a White House meeting with Afghan President Ashraf Ghani. The decision to keep more U.S. forces in Afghanistan this year was driven by the administration’s confidence in Ghani, whom Obama praised repeatedly. Relations between Ghani’s predecessor, Hamid Karzai, and the U.S. government had been steadily deteriorating for years. Obama lauded Ghani, who took office in September, for taking on “the mantle of commander in chief in a way that we have not seen in the past from an Afghan president.”
But Obama also made it clear that he wouldn’t depart from his current plan to close the remaining U.S. bases in Afghanistan and consolidate the remaining U.S. forces in Kabul by the end of 2016.
“Afghanistan is still a dangerous place,” Obama said. “The way it’s going to become less dangerous is by Afghan security forces* being capable of keeping law and order and security in the country, and that is not going to happen if foreign forces* are continually relied upon.” ]


This comes after extensive Pak and Kabul puppet regime attempts at trying to pressure Obama to change his decision. Ghani talked about manufactured ISIS threat to Afghanistan in his speech to Congress, and Obama stood next to him at a press conference and still affirmed the full US withdrawal.

Exactly.

Both the Pak military and the Afghan gov rely on the US for life support. With Obama saying NO, they have to cooperate against their own people to survive. The Paki establishment has more to lose than the Kabul regime. The Kabul regime is going down anyways, they should do their best to take the Paki's down with them.