punjab army destroying houses of FATA resident for entertainment

[tilla_jogian]

Hello All.

I by mistake included Niazis. I don't know much about them but it sounds to me they have retained the typical Pashtun tribal structure (e.g., Shaman Khel, Issa Khel, ...) probably also many typical Pashtun traditions and customs; therefore, they may be an exception.

I think Niazis also live in one consolidated geographical enclave so they are genuinely Pashtuns.

As for Lodhis and others living deep inside Punjab for many centuries, they have long forgotten the language as well as Pashtun tribal consciousness and association. So they cannot be accepted as Pashtuns.

Now how can Hamayun Akhtar Khan be accepted a Pashtun?

Don't get me wrong, its not like Kasuri pathans of central punjab are dying to be accepted as pashtuns lol. Come back to real world will you? They are just like any other tribe in rural areas who identify with ancestral origin even if speak different language now.

What you expected? Kasuri pathans to still speak pashto after centuries? Lodhis probably only exist in Multan/Seraiki areas.

[Toramana]

The real problem is the heavy indoctrination by the Pakistani state of the citizens which obviously also influence Pashtuns which is a semi-urban, semi-tribal, semi-rural mix not really having diluted into a monolithic whole.

You can also blame the Western powers for this especially the British policy before partition and American politics in that region after partition and during the Cold War. Before partition, Pashtuns were one of the people that fought most zealously against British. As sadistically vengeful they are, the British divided Pashtuns into many parts; FATA, KP, Baluchistan, etc. breaking the bond of ethnic unity and solidarity between them and eliminating any chance of the development of common national feelings between them in modern sense.

Another reason was that, Punjabis and Urdu-speaking Mahajars constituted the mainstay of British colonial machinery and proudly acted as their coolies, clerks, mercenaries, and other servants. After British departure, British left the power to such clients. Pakistan actually was conceived as a state that will be ruled by British dependent elite most of which came from northern India.

After the partition, during the Cold War, a confrontation between new powers, i. e., USA-West and USSR resulted in which Punjabis and Urdu-speaking Mahajars proved to be West's loyal clients. As one Pashtun politician has said whenever there would be a demand by Pashtuns or Baluchis, or Bengalis, for their rights, the Punjabi-Mahajar elite will warn the Westerners the agitators are communists trying to topple the govt and bring communist revolution. And the West will give them the approval as well as weapons and money to suppress such movements and demands. As the same Pashtun politician said it will really be the fist of the West but Punjabis will serve as a glove.

After the Cold War (1990), NATO started expanding its influence beginning with the ME (1st Gulf War) to fill the vacuum resulted due to Russian retreat from regions like Middle East and East-Europe, Balkans. Possibly, they had planned to return to the Afghan and Central-South Asian scene later after they had settled issues in Balkans.

We know well what happened in 1990s and post 2001. Cold War was replaced by the War on terror in which the Punjabi Army again proved to be a useful tool. It is more and more apparent that US-NATO by succeeding to get basis in Afghanistan will return to the Central-South Asian scene again after it has reshaped the Middle East although its intervention this time will be more insidious and not entirely beneficial to the Punjabi Army (during the Cold War and War on terror Punjabi Army was one of the main beneficiaries of the conflict).

Due to the factors above, Pashtuns have lost a sense of unity and the ability to organize around a single political movement or ideology. Too many powerful forces have been at work against them both global and local-regional. The archaic Pashtun traditions and values and slow progress of urbanization is also to blame. Moreover, formation of national consciousness is a natural process that cannot be achieved in a short time especially in the circumstances in which Pashtuns are living.

[Toramana]

It is also not entirely Punjab. The problem with Punjabis is that, their ignobility and greed is almost infinite. They can do any thing for anyone be Saudi Arab, US, the West, Chinese, etc. as long as they are paid good money. They are particularly not a people of strong values or character (the Sikh variety may be the exception).

Lies and deceit are integral part of their individual and national strategy. One should also appreciate their good qualities, e.g, industriousness, etc., but the non-commitment and lack of devotion to an ideology or set of values is something that is starkly lacking in them. This may also be due to their circumstances being a transitional group without any deep roots in history or independent identity (from India, or Muslims).

Anyhow, the point is Punjabis have acted as the fortune makers during the war on terror. The West needed someone that will help advance its strategy in the West Asia( securing US-NATO basis close to Central and South Asia). And Punjabis provided it that service in return for payment in the form of military and economic aid.

We should know that the F-16 Punjabis are using against the people of FATA have been provided to them by the US recently. And the indiscriminate bombardment of FATA villages and displacement of millions of people is with the US approval and material support. Probably, this is a part of USA future strategy. Whenever it has sought intervention somewhere it has first sought to spread anarchy and misery there and dismantle old structures.

Anyhow, one very authentic source was telling me that the Punjabis military officials and pilots that participated in American conducted air-war training would tell Americans that they will get the hell out of these tribal. That source told me an American himself told him this to kind of emphasize to him the Punjabis don't have any mercy for them as co-citizen, which was also insidious for the American was trying to exploit the sentiment of that Pashtun.

[tilla_jogian]

It is also not entirely Punjab. The problem with Punjabis is that, their ignobility and greed is almost infinite. They can do any thing for anyone be Saudi Arab, US, the West, Chinese, etc. as long as they are paid good money. They are particularly not a people of strong values or character (the Sikh variety may be the exception).

Lies and deceit are integral part of their individual and national strategy. One should also appreciate their good qualities, e.g, industriousness, etc., but the non-commitment and lack of devotion to an ideology or set of values is something that is starkly lacking in them. This may also be due to their circumstances being a transitional group without any deep roots in history or independent identity (from India, or Muslims).

Anyhow, the point is Punjabis have acted as the fortune makers during the war on terror. The West needed someone that will help advance its strategy in the West Asia( securing US-NATO basis close to Central and South Asia). And Punjabis provided it that service in return for payment in the form of military and economic aid.

We should know that the F-16 Punjabis are using against the people of FATA have been provided to them by the US recently. And the indiscriminate bombardment of FATA villages and displacement of millions of people is with the US approval and material support. Probably, this is a part of USA future strategy. Whenever it has sought intervention somewhere it has first sought to spread anarchy and misery there and dismantle old structures.

Anyhow, one very authentic source was telling me that the Punjabis military officials and pilots that participated in American conducted air-war training would tell Americans that they will get the hell out of these tribal. That source told me an American himself told him this to kind of emphasize to him the Punjabis don't have any mercy for them as co-citizen, which was also insidious for the American was trying to exploit the sentiment of that Pashtun.

Correct me if I am wrong, are not paracha kami kameen people of KPK? So someone writing about character while being inheratly docile kami is funny

[pashtanajan]

Don't get me wrong, its not like Kasuri pathans of central punjab are dying to be accepted as pashtuns lol. Come back to real world will you? They are just like any other tribe in rural areas who identify with ancestral origin even if speak different language now.

What you expected? Kasuri pathans to still speak pashto after centuries? Lodhis probably only exist in Multan/Seraiki areas.

Just curious. But what do these people write on their passports etc. in terms of ethnicity? Are they counted as Pashtun in the census? I'm asking because I want to know how the census system in Pakistan works. I'm wondering if these people are included in the Pashtun population in the census. This could explain why Pashtuns are around 30 million in Pakistan (a number which I think is a bit inflated).

[Kushan Prince]

I don't know how a thread focused on Punjabi barbarism turned into a discussion about Pashtun tribes and their origins...-_-

[Smarty]

This could explain why Pashtuns are around 30 million in Pakistan (a number which I think is a bit inflated).

And why do think the number is inflated? , Peshawer valley alone has 90 million population, Swat has 2 million population, small agency like bajaur has more one million population, even north waziristan, turns out, has 1.2 million poulation...............Some of the areas in pashtun belt of Pakistan are densely populated, tracts are fertile and there is presence of larger number of urban centers than Afghanistan. lag bag 35 million are pashto speakers, the non-pashto speaking pathans are not included in it.

[Smarty]

I don't know how a thread focused on Punjabi barbarism turned into a discussion about Pashtun tribes and their origins...-_-

[MENTION=18008]tripledouble[/MENTION] has answer for that

[Bengal_Tiger]

I don't know how a thread focused on Punjabi barbarism turned into a discussion about Pashtun tribes and their origins...-_-

Path of discussion.

Punjabi army > Pk Pashtuns don't care, lots in army > Level of Pashtuns in army is X and Y > This group is/isn't Pashtun.


or with a bit more detail.

Smarty: Punjabi army atrocities > Bengal_Tiger: Yes, but Pakistani Pashtuns are apathetic, lots in army > Tripledouble: This group are Pashtun/not Pashtun.




Anyway regarding the topic.

Even the Punjabi soldiers who think they are being clever by bombing a Pashtun house for fun are idiots.

The only people that really benefit from any war are the generals who sit in comfortable air-conditioned offices and send other people's sons to die or get killed.

The Pakistani army is a mafia which is glorified by the Pakistani state and nation (however just like religious scholars, politicians they are humans some of whom are very corrupt) and the top godfathers in that mafia are known to those who are a bit more open-minded and informed as notoriously corrupt.

The Pakistan army generals are engaged in using the Pakistan army to acquire money and land, in 1971 whilst Pakistani soldiers were being killed in east Pakistan/Bangladesh, their commander Yahya Khan was getting drunk and naked in sex parties, this is an officially confirmed fact by the way.

Link : Yahya Khan, Pakistan army chief, drunkard and womanizer.




Facebook: PK Pushtons



Yahya Khan, head of the Pakistan army during 1971 who sent Pakistani soldiers to die in 1971 whilst he got himself drunk in sex parties and enjoyed life in comfort after the war finished.



So those Punjabi soldiers who destroyed that house what will they do when they finish fighting?

What job will they do in Pakistan or Punjab?

Will they have to go to the gulf?

So Pakistan-walas can glorify their army and believe that Pakistan and the Pakistani people should exist to serve the army and benefit the army, however it will just keep them in poverty and suffering.

By the way in liberal-democracies where people are far more intelligent they know that warfare and fighting thus the militarism which promotes it contribute nothing to a better quality of life hence they quarantine the army in the barracks and focus on economic growth rather than fighting and killing.

[tilla_jogian]

Just curious. But what do these people write on their passports etc. in terms of ethnicity? Are they counted as Pashtun in the census? I'm asking because I want to know how the census system in Pakistan works. I'm wondering if these people are included in the Pashtun population in the census. This could explain why Pashtuns are around 30 million in Pakistan (a number which I think is a bit inflated).

No they are not included among pashto speakers but punjabis, Pak census is language based not ethnic. Now I know that not every pashto speaker is pashtun, which mean kami kameen people like toramana and syeds etc are just pashto speaking and not necessarly pashtuns. So it gets complicated and for that reason Pak census just stick with language identity.

Here is 1998 census report, Pakistan will have another census next year after long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Pakistan

[Toramana]

No they are not included among pashto speakers but punjabis, Pak census is language based not ethnic. Now I know that not every pashto speaker is pashtun, which mean kami kameen people like toramana and syeds etc are just pashto speaking and not necessarly pashtuns. So it gets complicated and for that reason Pak census just stick with language identity.

Here is 1998 census report, Pakistan will have another census next year after long time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Pakistan

That is stupid of you. Every Pashto speaker whether originally Pashtun or assimilated Pashtun is more Pashtun than those that pretend to be Pathans but neither have ancestral relationship to Pashtun land nor speak the language or know the values.

You as a typical Paki really belong to the neolithic age with an ossified mindset devoid of all rationality and objectivity.

[tripledouble]

Just curious. But what do these people write on their passports etc. in terms of ethnicity? Are they counted as Pashtun in the census? I'm asking because I want to know how the census system in Pakistan works. I'm wondering if these people are included in the Pashtun population in the census. This could explain why Pashtuns are around 30 million in Pakistan (a number which I think is a bit inflated).

govt considers them punjabi, tilla jogian gave you the answer, it's language base

30 million is not inflated, it's understated, the number is now just 50 million pashto speaker or more since 1998.

if u include pathan origin people, number goes higher.

[tilla_jogian]

That is stupid of you. Every Pashto speaker whether originally Pashtun or assimilated Pashtun is more Pashtun than those that pretend to be Pathans but neither have ancestral relationship to Pashtun land nor speak the language or know the values.

You as a typical Paki really belong to the neolithic age with an ossified mindset devoid of all rationality and objectivity.

Seem like I hit a nerve. Even pashto speaking chuhra from Peshawar believe he is pathan. I also was ignorant but now I know better and not every pashto speaking is pashtun. There is blood line involved here to determine who is pathan.

Your values are off kami kameen people, to serve your pakhtun overlords while speaking pashto. All these people went to conquer hindustan while your ancestors were serving pakhtuns as kami people. So centuries later their pathetic descendent left behind in mountains can decide wether one is pashtun or not while at the same time bragging about ancient exploits

[Toramana]

Seem like I hit a nerve. Even pashto speaking chuhra from Peshawar believe he is pathan. I also was ignorant but now I know better and not every pashto speaking is pashtun. There is blood line involved here to determine who is pathan.

Your values are off kami kameen people, to serve your pakhtun overlords while speaking pashto. All these people went to conquer hindustan while your ancestors were serving pakhtuns as kami people. So centuries later their pathetic descendent left behind in mountains can decide wether one is pashtun or not while at the same time bragging about ancient exploits

Go drain your nonsense in some other commode like Paki Defnce forum. I better be a commie Kameen and a chori than an uneducated lunatic afflicted by identity crisis.

[tilla_jogian]

Go drain your nonsense in some other commode like Paki Defnce forum. I better be a commie Kameen and a chori than an uneducated lunatic afflicted by identity crisis.

Kami people have identity crisis, when they move out of village they adopt identity of their masters. Your case is similar.