Humiliating: IDPs returning to Waziristan required to sign 8-page loyalty agreement

[DSM0305]

They have no obligation to help, but they do have an abligation not to destroy and spread extremism in to the neighbouring country that comprise their own ethnic group.
Even today Pashtuns from KPK come to Afghanistan to destabilise the nation and plant boms, becuase Afghans are so called kafir, meanwhile in Punjab you have ***** houses next to a mosque. But they are kept save.

I have no symphaty or what so ever for this people, after the terror atack in the Peshawar school they treaded Pashtun and Afghans like subhumans, when no Afghan was involved in the atack. And they still look down up on Afghans and discriminate them.

So according to you, if a Punjabi does the exact same thing, then it is okay and justifiable...

[Khostai]

So according to you, if a Punjabi does the exact same thing, then it is okay and justifiable...

-_- Where did I say that? I just gave my reason on why I have no sympathy for people who systematicaly hurt and even now destroys my country.
Its now got so worse that when people hear that some preacher or teacher is from Pakistan who teaches Islam they remove their kids from that school. Afghans realised that Pakis pashtuns are just tools of Punjab and can not be trusted. Becuase they spread extremism and terrorism

Punjabies are doing the same and thats why I hate them, but when your own ethnic group does the same you will hate them even more. Becuase an backstabing borther is much worser than some stranger who backstabs you.

[DSM0305]

-_- Where did I say that? I just gave my reason on why I have no sympathy for people who systematicaly hurt and even now destroys my country.
Its now got so worse that when people hear that some preacher or teacher is from Pakistan who teaches Islam they remove their kids from that school. Afghans realised that Pakis pashtuns are just tools of Punjab and can not be trusted. Becuase they spread extremism and terrorism

Punjabies are doing the same and thats why I hate them, but when your own ethnic group does the same you will hate them even more. Becuase an backstabing borther is much worser than some stranger who backstabs you.

''They have no obligation to help, but they do have an abligation not to destroy and spread extremism in to the neighbouring country that comprise their own ethnic group.''

I be honest with you. The reason you hate ''paki'' Pashtuns as you call them, is solely based upon the fact that they don't want to be part of Afghanistan. You now use the excuse of them spreading extremism, because I called you out on it.

If extremism was truly the reason you hated Pakistani Pashtuns, then you should have pointed a bigger finger on Afghan people themselves. Taliban, DAESH, Jamiate Islami, Hezbe Islami, Hezbe wahdat, Dostum's political party(cant remember their name) and many more.

Pakistani support for extremism in Afghanistan isn't a recent event. Even at the era of Zahir shah and Daud khan, Pakistani establishment supported extremist insurgency that includes Rabani, Masoud and Hektmatyr. And that was in time when Afghanistan was completely neutral country and had neither Soviet or US influence.

So extremism is far from what makes you hate Pakistani Pashtuns. The truth is that you're pursuing Loy Afghanistan and Pakistani Pashtuns want to remain in Pakistan, which causes you to hate them because you feel betrayed.

This is where I come in the picture. I hate when people don't prioritize. Afghanistan is in a mess and you for some odd reason find the luxury to pursue ''Loy Afghanistan''.

You can deny it all you want, but all your posts in this topic was based upon, that for some odd reason, because they're from the same ethnic group, they have some sort of obligation to Afghanistan.

The reality is:
Pakistani Pashtuns are they own masters and they can chose Pakistan over Afghanistan if that makes them happy.

When Pakistani Pashtun get unfairly treated in Pakistan, it is completely up to them what they do. They have no obligation to anyone.
- They can support Pakistan even more, despite being unfairly treated
- They can support Pakistan like they always did(no more no less), despite being unfairly treated
- They can demand Pakistan to treat them better, but still be part of Pakistan
- They can leave Pakistan and make their own country
- They can leave Pakistan and join Afghanistan

What my point? My point is that they alone decide their own fate. They have no obligation to any country, nor any ethnicity for that matter. They should do what they want. If they're happy with the way the things are, then who are you to claim that they have other obligations.

Afghanistan is a mess right now, and Afghans sole and only focus right now should be to build Afghanistan. Right now, we shouldn't even think about loy Afghanistan, let alone pursue it... If Pashtuns want to unite, then it is up to Pakistani Pashtuns to pursue it. Afghans neither capable and nor is it their responsibility to do so.

I repeat, Afghans only responsibility is to build their own country. Afghans who are not minding their own business and nor building their own country, are plain simply retarded.

[Khostai]

''They have no obligation to help, but they do have an abligation not to destroy and spread extremism in to the neighbouring country that comprise their own ethnic group.''

I be honest with you. The reason you hate ''paki'' Pashtuns as you call them, is solely based upon the fact that they don't want to be part of Afghanistan. You now use the excuse of them spreading extremism, because I called you out on it.

If extremism was truly the reason you hated Pakistani Pashtuns, then you should have pointed a bigger finger on Afghan people themselves. Taliban, DAESH, Jamiate Islami, Hezbe Islami, Hezbe wahdat, Dostum's political party(cant remember their name) and many more.

Pakistani support for extremism in Afghanistan isn't a recent event. Even at the era of Zahir shah and Daud khan, Pakistani establishment supported extremist insurgency that includes Rabani, Masoud and Hektmatyr. And that was in time when Afghanistan was completely neutral country and had neither Soviet or US influence.

So extremism is far from what makes you hate Pakistani Pashtuns. The truth is that you're pursuing Loy Afghanistan and Pakistani Pashtuns want to remain in Pakistan, which causes you to hate them because you feel betrayed.

This is where I come in the picture. I hate when people don't prioritize. Afghanistan is in a mess and you for some odd reason find the luxury to pursue ''Loy Afghanistan''.

You can deny it all you want, but all your posts in this topic was based upon, that for some odd reason, because they're from the same ethnic group, they have some sort of obligation to Afghanistan.

The reality is:
Pakistani Pashtuns are they own masters and they can chose Pakistan over Afghanistan if that makes them happy.

When Pakistani Pashtun get unfairly treated in Pakistan, it is completely up to them what they do. They have no obligation to anyone.
- They can support Pakistan even more, despite being unfairly treated
- They can support Pakistan like they always did(no more no less), despite being unfairly treated
- They can demand Pakistan to treat them better, but still be part of Pakistan
- They can leave Pakistan and make their own country
- They can leave Pakistan and join Afghanistan

What my point? My point is that they alone decide their own fate. They have no obligation to any country, nor any ethnicity for that matter. They should do what they want. If they're happy with the way the things are, then who are you to claim that they have other obligations.

Afghanistan is a mess right now, and Afghans sole and only focus right now should be to build Afghanistan. Right now, we shouldn't even think about loy Afghanistan, let alone pursue it... If Pashtuns want to unite, then it is up to Pakistani Pashtuns to pursue it. Afghans neither capable and nor is it their responsibility to do so.

I repeat, Afghans only responsibility is to build their own country. Afghans who are not minding their own business and nor building their own country, are plain simply retarded.

I stoped reading your rant becuase you assume that my hate is bassed on the fact thatI want Loy Afghanistan, what is not true at all. In no post or treads I have ever propagetated for loy Afghanistan. I know that Afghanistan has much bigger problems to solve first than this far fetched dream of unifieng.


"Pakistani support for extremism in Afghanistan isn't a recent event. Even at the era of Zahir shah and Daud khan, Pakistani establishment supported extremist insurgency that includes Rabani, Masoud and Hektmatyr. And that was in time when Afghanistan was completely neutral country and had neither Soviet or US influence." This is the only reason I deslike Pakistany Pashtuns and thats it.

[Smarty]

[Smarty]

This is a subjugation contract, intended to make fun of the label "azaad qabaili" . To pour salt on the wounds of IDPs, who lived a miserable and humiliated life in tents, Pakistani state has issued them a threat that on violation of agreement their Citizenship can be cancelled, passport and other legal documents can be cancelled and their ancestral lands and properties can be confiscated. As FCR is enforced, so this punishment would be for whole tribe or village. Neither Mughals nor British dared to displace these tribes from their lands but now Desi masters are in position to actually do so. They can use this as pressure tactic on Afghanistan, burdening them with these tribals. Recently they humiliated and harassed Afghan refugees all across the country, for false reason and pressurized Afghanistan by sending back refugees. For punishment of tribals, Pakistani establishment has several plans in store beside breaking their spine and humiliating them, after all more than 10,000 pakistani soldiers perished on the soil of tribal areas........According to reliable journalists, Pakistan army do no want to abolish FCR as it grants them unlimited power over miserable tribes as well as it denies Tribals the basic human rights. So FCR would be used as whip to punish these Pashtun tribes.

By the way Pakistani Faujis sources are saying that 35th Punjab unit in Tirah has lost more than 200 soldiers in an attack of TTP. Intense pitched battles are fought in Tirah between Taliban and Pak army with huge losses from both sides, the scene is like a war between two countries as there is excessive use of air strikes by Pakistan. Once Tirah is cleansed, Pak army wont forgive Afridis as they have suffered very heavy casualties here (also because previous operations in Tirah were failures)

[Bengal_Tiger]

This is a subjugation contract, intended to make fun of the label "azaad qabaili" . To pour salt on the wounds of IDPs, who lived a miserable and humiliated life in tents, Pakistani state has issued them a threat that on violation of agreement their Citizenship can be cancelled, passport and other legal documents can be cancelled and their ancestral lands and properties can be confiscated. As FCR is enforced, so this punishment would be for whole tribe or village. Neither Mughals nor British dared to displace these tribes from their lands but now Desi masters are in position to actually do so. They can use this as pressure tactic on Afghanistan, burdening them with these tribals. Recently they humiliated and harassed Afghan refugees all across the country, for false reason and pressurized Afghanistan by sending back refugees. For punishment of tribals, Pakistani establishment has several plans in store beside breaking their spine and humiliating them, after all more than 10,000 pakistani soldiers perished on the soil of tribal areas........According to reliable journalists, Pakistan army do no want to abolish FCR as it grants them unlimited power over miserable tribes as well as it denies Tribals the basic human rights. So FCR would be used as whip to punish these Pashtun tribes.

By the way Pakistani Faujis sources are saying that 35th Punjab unit in Tirah has lost more than 200 soldiers in an attack of TTP. Intense pitched battles are fought in Tirah between Taliban and Pak army with huge losses from both sides, the scene is like a war between two countries as there is excessive use of air strikes by Pakistan. Once Tirah is cleansed, Pak army wont forgive Afridis as they have suffered very heavy casualties here (also because previous operations in Tirah were failures)

Luffy/Smarty

What the Pakistani army is doing is absolutely disgusting and appalling.

This is 2015 and we supposedly live in an era of human dignity and rights.

This agreement and the FCR basically make the people of FATA slaves.

The sad thing and most tragic thing is that it appears that the vast majority of "Pakhtuns", in Pakistan whether it be in the Peshawar Valley, even a lot of FATA, rest of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are in love with Pakistan and could care very little if a few "troublesome" tribals are punished.

However in the long run, if the Pakistan army does this they will end up alienating the people of FATA and also their kin in Afghanistan e.g. Kunar, Paktia, Khost etc and what remained of Pakistan after its division in 1971 will also cease to exist.

Islamic scholars of India in the 1940s warned of the catastrophe the Pakistan project would bring and they have been proven correct.

[Smarty]

Luffy/Smarty

What the Pakistani army is doing is absolutely disgusting and appalling.

This is 2015 and we supposedly live in an era of human dignity and rights.

This agreement and the FCR basically make the people of FATA slaves.

The sad thing and most tragic thing is that it appears that the vast majority of "Pakhtuns", in Pakistan whether it be in the Peshawar Valley, even a lot of FATA, rest of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa are in love with Pakistan and could care very little if a few "troublesome" tribals are punished.

However in the long run, if the Pakistan army does this they will end up alienating the people of FATA and also their kin in Afghanistan e.g. Kunar, Paktia, Khost etc and what remained of Pakistan after its division in 1971 will also cease to exist.

Islamic scholars of India in the 1940s warned of the catastrophe the Pakistan project would bring and they have been proven correct.

In my opinion history is repeating itself. Its not the first time that one part of Pashtun body is getting hurt and their neighbors are doing nothing about it and are watching tamasha. Naturally you would expect nationalist politicians to do politics on it and raise noise over it even if it is for politics but the ones in our region are more interested in their own Peshawer valley and wont look beyond Kalabagh issue. The sad thing is that Wazirs and Dawars are very active in student wing of ANP but they are used as tissue papers. On flip side, ANP has suffered most from terrorism emanating from Mehsud and Wazir regions, so their silence is natural and they might see army as necessary evil.

So before blaming Punjabi, i would like to see Pashtuns coming to their senses and bringing their act together. If we had acted like a nation, we would never have been divided by British. Due to our classic display of disunity , divisions, tribalism and infighting, we are receiving kicks from every corner and from every power. A meek and weak Indian Mohajir, is no longer scared of "Pathans", he is cutting pashtun into pieces and packing him in bori. Mohajir is mongrel with no particular race, never had cohesive cultural identity but they got united in Pakistan under a leadership and have not only occupied Karachi but are even kicking the asses of natives. Pashtuns need to learn some lessons from Mohajir nationalism.

[DSM0305]

The fact is that Pashtun are Ghulams both in Afghanistan and Pakistan. The great glories of Pashtuns is nothing but past. I can guarantee you guys, that Pashtuns both in present and in the future will stay ghulams. Their income will be the lowest amongst their representative country men, and they will have to abide by the rules of other ethnicities to be even allowed to partake in the government. ''Pashtun'' will no longer be a mark of great glory, but a mark of shame and symbol of low class people, cheap labour, stupidity and slave worker.

[Bengal_Tiger]

In my opinion history is repeating itself. Its not the first time that one part of Pashtun body is getting hurt and their neighbors are doing nothing about it and are watching tamasha. Naturally you would expect nationalist politicians to do politics on it and raise noise over it even if it is for politics but the ones in our region are more interested in their own Peshawer valley and wont look beyond Kalabagh issue. The sad thing is that Wazirs and Dawars are very active in student wing of ANP but they are used as tissue papers. On flip side, ANP has suffered most from terrorism emanating from Mehsud and Wazir regions, so their silence is natural and they might see army as necessary evil.

So before blaming Punjabi, i would like to see Pashtuns coming to their senses and bringing their act together. If we had acted like a nation, we would never have been divided by British. Due to our classic display of disunity , divisions, tribalism and infighting, we are receiving kicks from every corner and from every power. A meek and weak Indian Mohajir, is no longer scared of "Pathans", he is cutting pashtun into pieces and packing him in bori. Mohajir is mongrel with no particular race, never had cohesive cultural identity but they got united in Pakistan under a leadership and have not only occupied Karachi but are even kicking the asses of natives. Pashtuns need to learn some lessons from Mohajir nationalism.

Pashtuns in Pakistan are very divided. Apart from ideological differences e.g. religious v liberal, the different regions are quite different.

Swat: Until recently very pro-Pakistan, liberal. Looked down upon by other Pashtuns as lacking in Pashto.

Peshawar valley: Mardan, Kohat, Pekhawar. This area has a very strange relationship with Pakistaniyat and Pashtuniyat. They seem to embrace both. Mardan, Kohat etc are well known for heavy recruitment for the army. However the ANP also has a strong presence there.

They are "settled area" Pashtuns and do not have the tribal system of mountain areas and are to an extent culturally "Pakified" and "desified" even the ones who "embrace" Pashtun "nationalism".

Other regions: Then there are other regions which so much can be written about e.g. Hazara division, Malakand etc.

Tribal areas: FATA Pashtuns are somewhat different but even there most are pro-Pakistan, Waziristan might be a tad different. Anyway there is an urban/rural ("settled areas" v tribal) divide and many "settled area" Pashtuns dislike Pakistani Pashtun tribals let alone Afghan Pashtuns.

Pashtuns are too divided and coming from a culture which inherently encourages loyalty, honour and being noble upon being exposed to Pakistani indoctrination which inculcates loyalty to Pakistan they feel it is a duty and in accordance with their Pashtun culture to be loyal to Pakistan.

This is the majority.

Pashtuns despite their kind, generous nature, martial qualities are in political terms simpletons and backwards.

Even the Sindhis made Sindhi an official language of Sindh decades ago. Even today Sindhi nationalists can close the whole of the interior of Sindh at a short moment's notice when they want to.

The Bengalis pre-71 were also unified and politicized.

The Mohajirs too.


To summarize I think we can say Pakistani Pashtuns love Pakistan and want to stay part of it and if a segment of that community is punished by the Pakistani state they could care less, because they have come to adore the Pakistani state and military.

I don't think anyone in Pekhawar will really care what is happening to FATA Pashtuns, many if not most are like the "Pathans" you see on defence.pk or like Shebaz Khan or Da Lahore Mazdigar i.e. Pakistan-walas.

[Adam]

Whats has been the response of Pakistani Pashtuns to this?

[Yousufzai]

Whats has been the response of Pakistani Pashtuns to this?

Aren't you a Pashtun from Pakistan?

[Adam]

Aren't you a Pashtun from Pakistan?

Yeah, but I meant those who are citizens

[Smarty]

Whats has been the response of Pakistani Pashtuns to this?

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