More post ZarbAzb failure

[BarakzaiAbdali]

http://www.dawn.com/news/1120010

Title?

Eight soldiers killed in attack on Jamrud Post

Three other security personnel were also injured and the vehicle of FC forces was completely destroyed in the attack.
Sources said more than a dozen militants attacked a Frontier Corps patrolling party and checkpost in Jamrud's Gundi area, followed by a grueling gun-battle which continued for over two hours.

Location?: Khybar Tribal Region
As Admin predicted, the violence merely spread out into other places. Pretty brazen attack.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

According to the Post, in Peshawar itself:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...142_story.html

Also in Peshawar on Friday, gunmen opened fire from a speeding car on police officers breaking their daylong fast during the holy month of Ramadan, killing three policemen and a passer-by, said Ejaz Khan, the city police chief.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I just can't believe that People raised in western society can be this much stupid

Zarbazb

*Collapse of TTP(Already happened)
*Majority of the IED's processing Factories were located in NW,most of them already being destroyed(I said majority not all of them)
*Extreme level decrease in terrorism activities in Pakistan(Terrorism activities of TTP origin),Wait for Extract regarding July-july 2011-12-13-14 terrorist activities and rough deathtoll of Civilian/Security comparision.

^^^^^

All of the above are achieved and the hide and run sort of terrorist activities happens everywhere in the developing world including India.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I cannot believe the Pakistani Propaganda machine thinks it can fool all of the people all of the time despite knowing full well that these sorts of conflicts grind on for decades. If a super power cannot do it, Pakistan is convinced it can somehow accomplish it in 3 months? Iraq was invaded in 2003 and now 11 years later is when the pockets of problems pop up. Afghanistan was invaded 2001 and it was half a decade later that the relative calm gave way to the problems we see.

Thankfully, those in Western society are 1) oblivious to the same propaganda machine that spun Musharraf into the Modern Day Khalid Bin Walid and called Bhutto "Shaheed" and 2) can make rational assessments and forecasts based on evidence devoid of jingoism.

[Admin Khan]

Don't get disrespectful by calling people stupid, it's a sign of your weakness, and lack of intellectual ability.

If anything, folks like Dr. [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] mop the floor with folks of your stature, but let's not even go there and remain humble.

I just can't believe that People raised in western society can be this much stupid

Zarbazb

*Collapse of TTP(Already happened)
*Majority of the IED's processing Factories were located in NW,most of them already being destroyed(I said majority not all of them)
*Extreme level decrease in terrorism activities in Pakistan(Terrorism activities of TTP origin),Wait for Extract regarding July-july 2011-12-13-14 terrorist activities and rough deathtoll of Civilian/Security comparision.

^^^^^

All of the above are achieved and the hide and run sort of terrorist activities happens everywhere in the developing world including India.

[HalloIsBack]

Don't get disrespectful by calling people stupid, it's a sign of your weakness, and lack of intellectual ability.

If anything, folks like Dr. @BarakzaiAbdali mop the floor with folks of your stature, but let's not even go there and remain humble.

if i one day get my phd
will you call me Dr. Hallo?
btw do you have a phd or are you doing one?

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I cannot believe the Pakistani Propaganda machine thinks it can fool all of the people all of the time despite knowing full well that these sorts of conflicts grind on for decades. If a super power cannot do it, Pakistan is convinced it can somehow accomplish it in 3 months? Iraq was invaded in 2003 and now 11 years later is when the pockets of problems pop up. Afghanistan was invaded 2001 and it was half a decade later that the relative calm gave way to the problems we see.

Thankfully, those in Western society are 1) oblivious to the same propaganda machine that spun Musharraf into the Modern Day Khalid Bin Walid and called Bhutto "Shaheed" and 2) can make rational assessments and forecasts based on evidence devoid of jingoism.

I just don't know why should anyone be concerned regarding Pakistan internal conflicts apart from Pakistani themselves even if they are fooling everyone.

the recent read from dawn is interesting as the people has started to open there mouth against talibs

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Don't get disrespectful by calling people stupid, it's a sign of your weakness, and lack of intellectual ability.

If anything, folks like Dr. [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] mop the floor with folks of your stature, but let's not even go there and remain humble.

On ocassion he dismiss the report from dawn(those posted by him) while oppose those i post(from the same source)

though unlike [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] he's a person of his words.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

I just don't know why should anyone be concerned regarding Pakistan internal conflicts apart from Pakistani themselves even if they are fooling everyone.

the recent read from dawn is interesting as the people has started to open there mouth against talibs

Perhaps because as the world is showing these days from East to West, from Eastern Europe to the Middle East and many other places, the borders that others constructed are absurd and are being questioned. What is more absurd is that some man named Richard or Pete came along and told a bunch of people about some farcical made up nation states that defied the true borders of interests, culture, history, and faith. What is still even more insane beyond this is that some of the local people accepted these imposed borders and allowed themselves to not only accept physical colonialism and neocolonialism, but also to accept it mentally (not just to accept it, but to love it and respect it).

The FATA people and Quettans see no border with us and we see no border with them. They are our blood brothers and we are theirs.

Moreover, there is a moral aspect and dimension to this that Pakistan has defied and defiled to stupendous proportions which meets the definition of hypocrisy.

This is not simply about Talib and Non Talib, this is about a disease and treating symptoms instead of an underlying pathophysiology.

If Pakistan's policy makers and military henchman were physicians, why they would be sued for malpractice because their solution is to kill the patient and not even make a proper diagnosis so as to cover up their insidious and malignant role in inflicting the disease in the first place.

We speak out because Pashtun lives are worth as much as the lives of all the other ethnicities on a moral playing field, and they do not deserve to be herded like cattle and disappeared as if they were worthless souls.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

On ocassion he dismiss the report from dawn(those posted by him) while oppose those i post(from the same source)

though unlike @Toramana he's a person of his words.

I did not dismiss the reports. I did three things

1) I posted confirmed soldier casualty counts
2) I posted information about Swat being a festering sore

and perhaps what you are referring to:

3) I questioned the veracity of the Pakistani military estimates in a way that is and was no different than commentators inside and outside of Pakistan. Why? Because Dawn, NY Times, Guardian, et al are all saying the same thing: we have no way to confirm anything the Pakistani military is saying since embed reporters are forbidden and other investigative reporters are barred from the scene.

That's just good science. Why would we accept the Pakistan government and military's assessments when we have apparent evidence of their fabricating things and making statements that wikileaks and others proved were false in the past? For example, they claimed they had no part or parcel in the drone attacks yet it was revealed for the world that they are involved in them and there is a tacit approval policy.

And I treat the Talib press releases the same way, even in Afghanistan. They are also known for claiming that they did X, Y, and Z and the media sources always state for the record that these releases have not been independently confirmed.

4) The last thing I did was that I simply disagreed with your assessment of what the data means when put together and when the non verifiable data points are excluded from the analysis.

I get that you love your country, army, and soldiers, and I also get that Pakistanis feel that it is them against the world and this leads to a strong sense of devotion to protecting the land on which your family lives.

That however doesn't mean that the truth should be a casualty.

I refer you to the words of the Almighty in Surah An Nisa:

O ye who believe! stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God, even as against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin, and whether it be (against) rich or poor: for Allah can best protect both. Follow not the lusts (of your hearts), lest ye swerve, and if ye distort (justice) or decline to do justice, verily Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

And you know full well that in the past, when discussing Pakistan-Afghanistan relationships and the human responses that have occurred between nations, I have discussed the severe faults done by both parties. In fact, it was not too long ago where I posted that article on the Hijraat that you found so interesting.

I am not taking a stand because someone is putting me up to it, or because of a popularity contest... rather it because innocent people are dying in a situation that does not have to be occurring. This is excessive and murderous policy against Pashtuns and that is the honest to goodness truth.

[Admin Khan]

On ocassion he dismiss the report from dawn(those posted by him) while oppose those i post(from the same source)

though unlike [MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION] he's a person of his words.

You are probably not used to people making you think(since most Pakis students just memorize things), and being to able to critically analyze a situation(hence your childish insults and name-calling), but most of us can see right through the nonsense, and when we do -- we call it out and say it how it is. The aforementioned is just one of the reasons why Pakistan is an element in the world's most backward nations subset.

Best,

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Perhaps because as the world is showing these days from East to West, from Eastern Europe to the Middle East and many other places, the borders that others constructed are absurd and are being questioned. What is more absurd is that some man named Richard or Pete came along and told a bunch of people about some farcical made up nation states that defied the true borders of interests, culture, history, and faith. What is still even more insane beyond this is that some of the local people accepted these imposed borders and allowed themselves to not only accept physical colonialism and neocolonialism, but also to accept it mentally (not just to accept it, but to love it and respect it).

The FATA people and Quettans see no border with us and we see no border with them. They are our blood brothers and we are theirs.

Moreover, there is a moral aspect and dimension to this that Pakistan has defied and defiled to stupendous proportions which meets the definition of hypocrisy.

This is not simply about Talib and Non Talib, this is about a disease and treating symptoms instead of an underlying pathophysiology.

If Pakistan's policy makers and military henchman were physicians, why they would be sued for malpractice because their solution is to kill the patient and not even make a proper diagnosis so as to cover up their insidious and malignant role in inflicting the disease in the first place.

We speak out because Pashtun lives are worth as much as the lives of all the other ethnicities on a moral playing field, and they do not deserve to be herded like cattle and disappeared as if they were worthless souls.

For the Bold part,we are not responsible but rather the elite of your side especially Abdur rehman khan.and if we by any mean are responsible do tell us how?Can you give up your American citizenship for Afghanistan?because as for as i know Afghanistan doesn't allow dual citizenship status if i am not wrong

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

I did not dismiss the reports. I did three things

1) I posted confirmed soldier casualty counts

They are already made public by ISPR itself

2) I posted information about Swat being a festering sore

How?have talibs again got control of swat?otherwsie the ocassional terrorist activities happens throughout Pakistan and even india(Yes india by mere terrorist activities has surpassed even Pakistan in 2011)

and perhaps what you are referring to:

3) I questioned the veracity of the Pakistani military estimates in a way that is and was no different than commentators inside and outside of Pakistan. Why? Because Dawn, NY Times, Guardian, et al are all saying the same thing: we have no way to confirm anything the Pakistani military is saying since embed reporters are forbidden and other investigative reporters are barred from the scene.

lol,why should they be allowed into the battlefield unless the area is cleared(Media was allowed when the Mirashah bazor was cleared)

That's just good science. Why would we accept the Pakistan government and military's assessments when we have apparent evidence of their fabricating things and making statements that wikileaks and others proved were false in the past? For example, they claimed they had no part or parcel in the drone attacks yet it was revealed for the world that they are involved in them and there is a tacit approval policy.

And I treat the Talib press releases the same way, even in Afghanistan. They are also known for claiming that they did X, Y, and Z and the media sources always state for the record that these releases have not been independently confirmed.

Well sir for ISPR/army only the concerns of Pakistanis matter and i can asure you that majority in Pakistan in the pashtun belt support the operation and this is something only concerns the establishment

4) The last thing I did was that I simply disagreed with your assessment of what the data means when put together and when the non verifiable data points are excluded from the analysis.

I get that you love your country, army, and soldiers, and I also get that Pakistanis feel that it is them against the world and this leads to a strong sense of devotion to protecting the land on which your family lives.

That however doesn't mean that the truth should be a casualty.

I refer you to the words of the Almighty in Surah An Nisa:

[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][/LEFT]

And you know full well that in the past, when discussing Pakistan-Afghanistan relationships and the human responses that have occurred between nations, I have discussed the severe faults done by both parties. In fact, it was not too long ago where I posted that article on the Hijraat that you found so interesting.

I am not taking a stand because someone is putting me up to it, or because of a popularity contest... rather it because innocent people are dying in a situation that does not have to be occurring. This is excessive and murderous policy against Pashtuns and that is the honest to goodness truth.

[/QUOTE]

Well sir,I have repeatedly told you that i am not a blind patriotic.The part is even your own source's put the army as slightly lesser of the 2 evils(taliban/army).

This will explain everything

http://newsweekpakistan.com/north-waziristan-before-and-after-the-taliban/

To be posted in other post

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Now this is a interesting Read

The Good and Bad of talibs for the common people of Waziristan

TRIBESMEN WHO HAVE SOUGHT REFUGE IN BANNU CLAIM THE MILITANTS WERE INITIALLY WELCOMED, BUT SOON BECAME FIGURES OF DREAD.

It took Ambroz Khan two days of standing in a torturously slow-moving queue before he could register as an internally displaced person at Bannu. The 28-year-old, who works as a driver, had to abandon his home and most of his belongings when he and his family fled North Waziristan after Pakistan’s military launched Operation Zarb-e-Azb on June 15. But while he appreciates the need to exterminate terrorism from Pakistan, he says the Taliban helped introduce a better way of life to the residents of the tribal areas. He isn’t the only one.

One of over 900,000 tribesmen who have sought refuge in Bannu, Khan says he had fled to Afghanistan when the government announced Zarb-e-Azb. “I had to return because some members of my family had stayed behind in Waziristan,” he says, referring to the 29 family members he is currently sharing a small house with, including his brother’s entire family. “There isn’t much difference between the [refugee camp] in Afghanistan and the one in Bannu. But the weather was better,” he adds.

According to Khan, North Waziristan was transformed when the Taliban started to exert control in 2004. He claimed that the Taliban had “won the hearts and minds” of locals after killing members of Afghan Hakeem Khan’s gang, who were charging protection money from shopkeepers and transporters and were involved in several other criminal activities. However, he said, shortly after evicting Hakeem Khan, the Taliban started to engage in similar activities.

Mirwaiz Khan Wazir, a 60-year-old who is also seeking refuge in Bannu, agreed with Khan. “The Taliban completely changed our lives,” he said. “They eliminated the role of elders in our society and hampered the effectiveness of the political administration,” he said.

The father of 14 said he blamed the Taliban for destroying the peace of North Waziristan. “The Army and the U.S. drones followed the Taliban, destroying our peaceful region,” said Wazir, adding, “ [Before the Taliban] I had only seen chickens and cattle being slaughtered. They showed us the bodies of slaughtered humans.” He said that after the brutal massacres perpetrated by the Taliban, no one dared to interfere in their business.

However, Khan said that while the Taliban progressively became more oppressive, at one point they were considered vital to the local economy. “The Taliban paid well [so we embraced them],” he said. “They would often hire the services of the local community.” According to Khan, the Taliban seldom haggled and were “good customers.” He also appreciated the technological advances they introduced to North Waziristan. “They brought in electronic gadgets to the region, like laptops, and mobile and satellite phones,” he said. “Before they introduced us to mobile phones, we were completely reliant on landlines, which would often get damaged and be out of service for weeks at a time,” he said. “They would also frequently visit Afghanistan and return with exotic food that was alien to the local community,” he added.

Lajbar Khan, a 38-year-old who used to sell fruits and vegetables in Mir Ali, said the Taliban had revitalized his business. “Thanks to them, I could afford to bring in fruit from across the country, which they paid very well for,” he said. He said people in North Waziristan barely cared about fruit before the Taliban started demanding more variety. “They were good customers. My business expanded [thanks to their money], and I also started selling goats to them,” he said. “They were fond of eating mutton and were not interested in cows and buffaloes. I earned a lot of money from them,” he added, saying the Taliban would often order from him in bulk.

But while the local community appreciated the advances introduced by the Taliban, they were accompanied by greater fear over their sophisticated weaponry, said Khan. “A decade ago, we did not fear anyone [because we had our own weapons],” said Khan, “But the Taliban [and their affiliates] introduced weapons that scared us.” According to Khan, the Khorasan faction of the Taliban was the most feared. “People would hide as soon as they saw their vehicles with tinted windows,” he said. “I was always terrified of dealing with them, but had no other choice since they were responsible for my livelihood.”

Lajbar Khan agrees, saying the Taliban virtually ruled the entire tribal region and you had no choice but to obey them. “They were wrong,” he says. “Because of them, our lives eventually became hell. We had to worry about [U.S.] drone strikes, unannounced curfews, and checkpoints.”

According to both Lajbar and Khan, the biggest change was the cultural shift that the Taliban enforced. “Our wedding ceremonies used to be full of music, fun and dance, but the Taliban banned all this,” said Lajbar. “They said it was against Islam and sharia and forced us to adopt piety.” Khan admits that even drivers had to be careful about what kind of music they played. “We would play the latest Pashto music when driving to Bannu,” he said. “But when we would return home, we would only play jihadi anthems and religious hymns.”

http://newsweekpakistan.com/north-waziristan-before-and-after-the-taliban/

[HalloIsBack]

For the Bold part,we are not responsible but rather the elite of your side especially Abdur rehman khan.and if we by any mean are responsible do tell us how?Can you give up your American citizenship for Afghanistan?because as for as i know Afghanistan doesn't allow dual citizenship status if i am not wrong

as i know afg allow double citizenship
lots of refugees in europe from afg have afg citizenship and the country they live in
afg state dont let afghan people out from the afghan citizenship