Pakistan's Swat Operation and Failure

[Pakwatan]

Shahbaz, one of the Maliks of the Yargu Khel Wazirs was with me when meeting that high level Khattak.

You know what the Wazir said that insulted the Khattak? He said, "my grandfather used to say that the Khattaks were the best workers! They will break their back for their boss!"

The Khattak smiled and said "Oh Kakaa, how did your grandfather interact with Khattakaan?"

The Wazir smiled wryly and said "Son, your Khattakaan used to be a part of the British occupational force in my land! We say this because when the British colonel would give the order- the Khattak would run to get his chookaa and would give us the hardest and most CRUEL beating for his master... this is what made him a slave!"

Now, I felt embarrassed since both were my guests, and I felt that maybe the Wazir should not have said this so openly - but in a sense he was telling the truth.

Just a few days before the Khattak guy was bragging to me about how he was collecting information on world war II veterans from Pakistan. I asked him what he meant. He said "Oh Lala. it was glorious our grandfathers served the British and died standing against Hitler in Sudan!"

How goddamn embarrassing it was for me! So there is this guy, supposedly educated bragging about how some moron from the former NWFP went across the world to help one imperial white guy kill other imperial white guys and he DIED for this.

To make my point, I asked him if there were WWII graveyards like there are in American for these soldiers. His ears turned red and he said, "Oh Lala, since they endorsed shahadaat they were buried in Sudan"

Do you know what this means Shabaaz?

This means many Khattakaan have no idea where their grandfather is buried in Sudan and British simply buried their as-ses in mass graves like animals!

When they face the judgment throne, what are they going to say when God says to them:

God: So how did you die?
NWFP British era soldier: I died with shahadaat Spitzalaay Khodaay Paak!
God: So why did you not come to Heaven right away like a green bird of paradise like I said in my book? (rhetorical)
NWFP British era soldier: I don't know Khoday, why????
God: Because you idiot, you died for some man named Richard murdering some man named Otto.

And remember Khushaal Khan Khattak died very unhappy with his tribe and their following his son Bahram Khan Khattak.

He said:

Let me show you a direct example of this sort of slavery. This is written by the descendent of Kuli Khan Khattak:

http://zeejah.tripod.com/khattaks.html

Look at how stupid this guy is. Bragging about his grand father's bravery. He doesn't understand that any smart reader will know his grandfather was an opportunist ******* who sold his own people. Here is the key sentence:



So we are supposed to respect this guy because when his master got thrown out, he magically decided to return all the medals and titles? Look at his corrupt greasy face"

http://zeejah.tripod.com/baba.jpg

Wearing all his medals like some super slave.

And now to show that this bloodline and character persists... here is his modern day descendant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kuli_Khan_Khattak

In once case, I proved to you how

1) Khushal Khan would be proud of our criticism of these Bahram Khattak style people who have disgraced the Khattak name
2) Provided a clear example of one corrupt guy Kuli Khattak who was all too proud to go and help his masters in taming the FATA tribes and in sending his Khattak men to Sudan to die fighting Germans
3) His descendants are still in control and doing the same things today.

Please, are you trying to actually tell the people of their history, or trying to drive their agenda?
You are a Pashtun nationalist, and you will not even spare your own for the sake of your agenda.

I am not only disappointed in reading what you wrote, but also astonished... How could you?

As if Pathans did not engage in WWII................

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Please, are you trying to actually tell the people of their history, or trying to drive their agenda?
You are a Pashtun nationalist, and you will not even spare your own for the sake of your agenda.

I am not only disappointed in reading what you wrote, but also astonished... How could you?

As if Pathans did not engage in WWII................

I appear to be like the djinni Legion from the New Testament; one yet many with all the epithets used on me: mullah, talib, American agent, ISI, and now Pashtun nationalist. I must be doing something right pissing everyone off.

Also, please, by all means, read the logs of the British Captains stationed in Wana... They will confirm independently what that Ahmadzai Wazir said. In fact kuli khan Khattak was one of their henchman in FATA.

[Pakwatan]

I appear to be like the djinni Legion from the New Testament; one yet many with all the epithets used on me: mullah, talib, American agent, ISI, and now Pashtun nationalist. I must be doing something right pissing everyone off.

Also, please, by all means, read the logs of the British Captains stationed in Wana... They will confirm independently what that Ahmadzai Wazir said. In fact kuli khan Khattak was one of their henchman in FATA.

So Kuli Khan agrees to something, and you feel that the Khattaks are all of the same position? You tell me your own tribe, and I promise, I can find a beghairat person of your tribe. And when I do, should I accuse all of your people as ****ty traitors?

You are a lot smarter than me, being an MBA, but I am no fool either.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

So Kuli Khan agrees to something, and you feel that the Khattaks are all of the same position? You tell me your own tribe, and I promise, I can find a beghairat person of your tribe. And when I do, should I accuse all of your people as ****ty traitors?

You are a lot smarter than me, being an MBA, but I am no fool either.

I never said them all- which is why I made distinctions between the legendary khushal Baba and his son bahram khan. The point was smarty appears to come from FATA and my point to shahbaz was the historical truth to his claims of many Khattak khans being subservient to the Brits. This by no means implicates every Khattak but it damn well implicates kuli khan

[Shehbaz Khan]

I didnt generalize, i only talked about fauji families from the particular tribes and regions, napak army is also popular in your nowshera, so was the case in british times. Dont compare khushal baba with your beghairat fauji heroes, who send their wives to beds of punjabi officers

And for that you don't have any proofs!

[Shehbaz Khan]

In Paki Army, the month of December is called the holy month of December because that is when their reports for promotion are compiled and bribery including sending wives to seniors is the main tool for a favourable report.

Remember Musharaf's time ISPR spokesman. I have forgotten his name but they used to say when the ISPR spokesman arrives at Musharaf's place in the morning, his wife leaves Musharaf's bedroom and when ISPR spokesman leaves Musharaf's place in the evening, his wife arrives in Musharaf's bedroom. This way both served Musharaf.

Promotion reports are signed and finalized in June and are signed in August. Only if you knew :D

Haha what a joke the wife of a Lt General visiting the Army Chief. Who told you this? Your friend who used to be inside the Army House :D

[Shehbaz Khan]

But Pakis can do anything for money. When Gulf states started becoming wealthy during 1960s and 1970s, Pakis started getting closed to them. In Bhutoo's days Pakistani officials would supply women to Shiekh Zaid Bin Sultan and other Arab Shiekhs for aid. In particular, on Paki bank, BCCI, Bank of Commerce and Credit International founded by one Agha Hassan Abidi later called Bank of Crooks and Criminal International due to involvement in money laundering, drug money, etc. used to supply women to Shiekhs to oblige them to deposit petro-dollars in BCCI. In fact, Shiekhs were main sponsors of these banks.

In the Rahim Yar Khan area of the Punjab, Shiekh Zaid's progeny and other Shiekhs are still maintaining a large mansion together with a small air-strip where locals serve them.

"During its meteoric rise in the 1980s, BCCI was anything but a "Third World bank." Nominally founded in 1972 by Pakistani banker Agha Hasan Abedi, it was initially capitalized by the British-run Sheik Zayed of Abu Dhabi, incorporated in Luxembourg, and conducted all of its real business in London. True, Abedi was closely allied with the Pakistani military, especially with Gen. Mohammed Zia ul-Haq, who took power in 1977; and BCCI was used as a laundromat for the billions of dollars a year generated by the hundreds of heroin laboratories in Pakistan's North West Frontier Province (NWFP) that processed Afghani opium and smuggled it onto the world market. Likewise, BCCI was the central bank for the British and American arms flows to the Afghan mujahideen."

http://surrenderingislam.com/content/real-story-bcci

1) The bank that Agha Hassan Abdi founded was named as United Bank Limited, UBL.

2) Just visit the slums of Pindi and Islamabad and see what the Afghans do for money?

Last but not the least, Are you nationalists the supporters of an Army operation or the opposers?

[Shehbaz Khan]

[MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]:

1) You're referring me to Al Jazeera for Swat Operation, Shall I refer you to CNN for Palestine's issues?

2) As I'd already said, people like you are never pleased, they will call us Talib supporters when we will hold peace talks and Pakhtun killers when we will hold an operation. Like, on Swat operation you don't believe Asfandyar Wali Khan from ANP, Arbab Jehangir from PPP, Raheem Ullah Yousufzai from Pakhtunkhwa but Al Jazeera.

3) Now I simply can't call Baitullah Mehsood to be Shaheed neither does Usama Bin Ladin nor Fazlullah, so I will call them Shaheed, you have a problem with the word, I don't mind as long as it's a problem with that specific word. Secondly, those who drink in the military are a minor percentage almost all of them are Brig+ that is one star or more, you can't expect a common Captain or Major neither the common soldier in the battlefield to be drinker, so calling him a Shaheed because he sacrificed his life to save the innocent people from those barbaric animals sounds logical to me.

4) Again this is all what you have as I said earlier, Personal stories, a General's son killing the tribals source? Your personal friends.. And you speak like we have never seen any Generals of Pakistan Army and never met their sons.

5) Pakistan's policy is quite clear. We negotiated with those who wanted to talk like gentlemen and left the rest for those Jets to bomb. Where is the policy unclear, as I have repeatedly stated, is at what after the operation? And it will be more clear once they will stop the bombing.

6) And a person sitting miles away, having no idea of how we live here, is going to tell me that who is the follower of Khushal Khan and which one is following Behram. Just like Bhagat singh, the people of of India called him Freedom Fighter and the British called him Terrorist. So for you this Khattak might be Behram Khan, for me he is Khushal Khan. Argument Over!

[jankhan]

Brother shehbaz khan, we pakistanis have one problem and that is blindness and believe in whatever isi propagates though thier agents. There are good guys in army but majority are munafiqeen and cheaters. They don't care about salah and saum. These twos are personal acts but I mentioned them here because they always claim to be shaheed and ghazi and ghazwa e hind etc etc. Then they are extremely arrogant. They use islam for their motives. They don't want to implement islamic shariah in pak but they love to do the same act in afghanistan again munafiqat.
And yes they are involved in some dirty acts as the other guys mentioned. They not holy. Don't ask me for reference because these stories are not printed in newspapers.
Im saying this because I have been very to army and their mentality.
Shareef man can't get top promotion but very very few

[Smarty]

And for that you don't have any proofs!

What proof? You want semen sample extracted from the used wife or DNA results of their children.
Your own faujis spill the beans to us civilians.

[Shehbaz Khan]

What proof? You want semen sample extracted from the used wife or DNA results of their children.
Your own faujis spill the beans to us civilians.

Proof of your false allegations if you have any? And if you don't have any this is called 'Bohtaan' so avoid what you don't know about..

I've met Army officials ranking from common soldiers to Generals and I can for sure tell you that this thing that you're referring to I never witnessed. If you have witnessed or have proof for it. Share it, else your empty words don't mean a thing.
[MENTION=17535]jankhan[/MENTION]

So they can't be published but you still came to know about. And you know that because you have been to Army and their mentality, is the stupidiest reason you are giving me. Because I breath with Army look at this avatar carefully the sign on my right it says 'Pakistan Navy Central Library' and you want me to believe you because you have met and you know about Army mentality. Ghalay kena mara!
Ok, you have been to, so why don't you meet me someday, and show me a single person that you know of? What happens gets published as well from example we all know about the General Yahya's very personal General Rani don't we?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Proof of your false allegations if you have any? And if you don't have any this is called 'Bohtaan' so avoid what you don't know about..

I've met Army officials ranking from common soldiers to Generals and I can for sure tell you that this thing that you're referring to I never witnessed. If you have witnessed or have proof for it. Share it, else your empty words don't mean a thing.
[MENTION=17535]jankhan[/MENTION]

So they can't be published but you still came to know about. And you know that because you have been to Army and their mentality, is the stupidiest reason you are giving me. Because I breath with Army look at this avatar carefully the sign on my right it says 'Pakistan Navy Central Library' and you want me to believe you because you have met and you know about Army mentality. Ghalay kena mara!
Ok, you have been to, so why don't you meet me someday, and show me a single person that you know of? What happens gets published as well from example we all know about the General Yahya's very personal General Rani don't we?

The proven history of Kuli Khan Khattak and his British servitude was something you completely glossed over. And by khushal khan Khattak baba's definition - your support of people like kuli khan and his descendants in Pak Askar would make you in line with his criticism of Behram. So I backed up my personal story with the kuli khan reference. There are books and books from the British on how Kuli khan licked their boots and beat up waziristan for them like their lap dog.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Proof of your false allegations if you have any? And if you don't have any this is called 'Bohtaan' so avoid what you don't know about..

I've met Army officials ranking from common soldiers to Generals and I can for sure tell you that this thing that you're referring to I never witnessed. If you have witnessed or have proof for it. Share it, else your empty words don't mean a thing.
[MENTION=17535]jankhan[/MENTION]

So they can't be published but you still came to know about. And you know that because you have been to Army and their mentality, is the stupidiest reason you are giving me. Because I breath with Army look at this avatar carefully the sign on my right it says 'Pakistan Navy Central Library' and you want me to believe you because you have met and you know about Army mentality. Ghalay kena mara!
Ok, you have been to, so why don't you meet me someday, and show me a single person that you know of? What happens gets published as well from example we all know about the General Yahya's very personal General Rani don't we?

As I noted the kuli khan reference is air tight proof and his own idiot grandson was one of musharrafs generals and bootlickers in doing damage on FATA like his grand daddy. Mr Ali Kuli Khan Watan Ferosh

[Shehbaz Khan]

^ You didn't reply my points?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

^ You didn't reply my points?

Because you didnt answer a single thing in the original post and did not even take the time to look at the effective arguments against what you said so how can I response when you side stepped everything and just said "because I think so."

1) For instance, he the he-ll can you dismiss the Al Jazeera report with the lame excuse of "Who knows better? Me or Al Jazeera?" They have superb and renowned investigative reporting.

Specifically, they address the Pakistani Governments lack luster performance in subsidizing the silk industry as an example. Here is the full report, with ground level evidences:

They interview the Swati Silk producer Shams Al Hadi.

Pakistan jobless turn to Taliban in Swat - YouTube

Listen to the the silk industry guy at 1 min and 51 sec regarding what is going on. Your head is in the sand my friend.

2) Your commentary on Bahram Khan and Khushaal Khan simply amounted to... "well some may like bahram and some may like Khushaal and I choose Khushaal."

What does that even mean when my original argument was that by Khushaal Baba's definition, you have NOT chosen him, you chose Behram's ideology, strategy, and choices?

3) You asked for proofs regarding the Wazir elder's commentary on the Khattak role in Waziristan.

I provided you the clear and well documented example of Kuli Khan Khattak. If you want more:

The Khattaks collectively welcomed the British right from the beginning and served loyally. The reason was that compared to other tribes, Khattaks had a more centralized organization and they generally gave allegiance to one principle chief and followed his decisions. Khattaks served in military and many civil areas. Frontier Force regiments especially Coke’s Rifles (Ist Punjab Infantry, later 1/13 Frontier Force) saw a number of good Khattak soldiers.

http://www.defencejournal.com/2003/june/tribesandturbulence.htm

More? Here is the full story of the British retreat from Waziristan and who helped them kill Wazir and Mahsuds:

http://www.khyber.org/publications/011-015/britishretreat.shtml

There were some Pashtuns who had mutinied and saw the brutality of the British and joined their Afghan and Wazir brothers.

What did the Khattak members do?

Russell tried to determine just who had mutinied and who had not. Counting the Scouts marching with him, he realized that Scouts from the Yusafzai, Khattak and Bangash tribes had remained loyal, as had some Bhittanis. The Afridis and Wazirs, who made up one-tenth of the South Waziristan Militia, had mutinied, and their officers - men with whom Russcll had worked and lived for years - had led them. Some Orakzai Scouts; near kin of the Afridis, accompanied Russell's column as it marched out of Wana, but during the night they melted away. How faithful the others would prove was anyone's guess.

Meaning this was the British Captain Russell's assessment none mine.

Earlier in the article he discusses why this was the case:

Among the latter were 230 Khattaks, tribesmen recruited from within British administered territory across the Indus River. They would remain loyal because their families and homes were squarely under the British thumb.

So you think Kuli Khan Khattak the main best friend of the British and his grandkiddy Ali Kuli Khan Khattak

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ali_Kuli_Khan_Khattak

are good people and that Khushaal khan would do thaar ghara wathaal with Kuli Khan? No, because Kuli and his descendants in the Pakistani Army embody opportunistic narcissism and all the things Kushal Khan Baba wrote against.

3) Your commentary on what constitutes Shahadaat completely side stepped the juristic information I provided. My whole point was that Pakistan preaches and utilizes that juristic interpretation when endorsing many struggles locally and in the world. By that very FACT, its soldiers who kill those that embody that interpretation cannot be shaheed, but are at worst munapiqeen or at best, mercenaries.

So once you respond to each of my points then I can respond to whatever you raise next because up to now, I see nothing to respond to.