Afghan law on restricting women's rights

[khushal]

Ok, i agree with you that the domestic abuse is present in all societies. But it is more dominant in pashtun society. From what i have heard, the reasons that men in the villages near my own, including my village, hit their wives was to show masculinity.
What are the reasons men hit their wives, in pashtun culture, then?

The same as any other culture. Because they are weaker. Passive aggressive men take out their anger caused by something else and take it out on their wives. I used to have a neighbor who hated his boss and came home every evening and beat his dog because he did not have a wife to pick on.

Well in the case of women being accepted in the workplace, in the villages, women do all the work while men sit on their asses and drink chai and talk. That happens in most villages. I'm not talking about the educated people in the cities like Kabul, Mazar, Kandahar, Herat. I'm talking about the villages. But the abuse does happen in the cities too.

I was talking about the urban areas because change first happens in the urban centers. But women have been doing the majority of the farm work all over the world since faming was invented.

[Diaphanous]

The same as any other culture. Because they are weaker. Passive aggressive men take out their anger caused by something else and take it out on their wives. I used to have a neighbor who hated his boss and came home every evening and beat his dog because he did not have a wife to pick on.




I was talking about the urban areas because change first happens in the urban centers. But women have been doing the majority of the farm work all over the world since faming was invented.

So what is the reason then when the man goes to his friends and starts gloating about how he beat his wife? I agree that they will beat their wives due to outside frustration, but that is not always the case. Men all over afghanistan, beat for the pleasure of knowing they are the stronger gender, knowing that they have someone to pick on, someone that won't fight back and that is how they show their strength.

But did women, go up to the ghroona to collect firewood. What did men do while their wives were out farming, and collecting firewood, cooking, caring for their kids, cleaning and all the other responsibilities that come with being a woman? Isn't it time that men of afghanistan do something for the women, something that will make their lives a little easier, even if it is keeping them from being beaten by their husbands?

[khushal]

So what is the reason then when the man goes to his friends and starts gloating about how he beat his wife? I agree that they will beat their wives due to outside frustration, but that is not always the case. Men all over afghanistan, beat for the pleasure of knowing they are the stronger gender, knowing that they have someone to pick on, someone that won't fight back and that is how they show their strength.

I've never heard of this. In Pashtun culture, it is taboo to talk of such things.

But did women, go up to the ghroona to collect firewood. What did men do while their wives were out farming, and collecting firewood, cooking, caring for their kids, cleaning and all the other responsibilities that come with being a woman? Isn't it time that men of afghanistan do something for the women, something that will make their lives a little easier, even if it is keeping them from being beaten by their husbands?

you have already answered your own question. sitting on their assses.

[Diaphanous]

well it might be, but that's how they showed it. Because of what stays hidden in pashun culture, if you want people to know. It would eventually get to the men that a certain man had beaten his wife for not doing a small, insignificant thing like maybe be a little late in serving tea.

[khushal]

well it might be, but that's how they showed it. Because of what stays hidden in pashun culture, if you want people to know. It would eventually get to the men that a certain man had beaten his wife for not doing a small, insignificant thing like maybe be a little late in serving tea.

The news is usually spread through women, not men. There are also women who abuse men but the vast majority of victims are women. One of the major factor is the domination factor. One is trying to dominate the other and the main tool the man has is physical strength.

[Diaphanous]

The news is usually spread through women, not men. There are also women who abuse men but the vast majority of victims are women. One of the major factor is the domination factor. One is trying to dominate the other and the main tool the man has is physical strength.

Why, because women are always spreading the news and can't keep quiet? It actually isn't women all the time. Men need to stop blaming women for their problems.

you brought up the story about the guy you knew that beat his dog because he didn't have a wife. that is one guy. what about all the other thousands of men that beat their wives, for reasons that are not because they are angered at outside forces?

[Diaphanous]

Why can't you just accept that there are men that abuse their wives for no reason? It is the harsh reality for hundreds of women.

[khushal]

Why, because women are always spreading the news and can't keep quiet? It actually isn't women all the time. Men need to stop blaming women for their problems.

Correct, it is necessary and nature has created one of the sexes to love to talk and share their feeling to keep society transparent.

you brought up the story about the guy you knew that beat his dog because he didn't have a wife. that is one guy. what about all the other thousands of men that beat their wives, for reasons that are not because they are angered at outside forces?

well that is not one guy, there are numerous people like him but that is one reason. I have also stated the domination factor. There are many reasons.

[Diaphanous]

Correct, it is necessary and nature has created one of the sexes to love to talk and share their feeling to keep society transparent.


well that is not one guy, there are numerous people like him but that is one reason. I have also stated the domination factor. There are many reasons.

of course, now your sharing the christian view of everything that happens is women's faults. are you going to start saying that the reason man is on earth is also solely because of women?

Yes, there are many reasons, but you keep mentioning the one. Why can't you mention a reason that actually puts men in the wrong?

[khushal]

your using a red herring fallacy.

[Diaphanous]

your using a red herring fallacy.

ok, forget what i said about the christian things. just give me a couple of reasons why men beat their wives?

[khushal]

well I did give you two. another one would be observation. one who observes domestic violence while growing up tend to think it is an acceptable behavior so it would reinforce that behavior.

[Diaphanous]

well I did give you two. another one would be observation. one who observes domestic violence while growing up tend to think it is an acceptable behavior so it would reinforce that behavior.

No, you only gave me one.
Ok, observation is the biggest reason for domestic abuse, all over the world. But it seems to be over the smallest things ni afghanistan. that i have seen and heard of. Just because a woman went outside, she didn't cook something right and many more insignificant things.

[HalloIsBack]

[MENTION=17835]Diaphanous[/MENTION] you are pretty new here
you can discuss a long time with him but his stupiduty in endless and his argumentation too
i discussed one with him and stopped it's time wasting

[Khostai]

The new law that is being proposed, and has been passes by BOTH parliments is that no family members can be questioned by police or testify against a male family member regarding domestic abuse.
Now, due to outside forces, President Karzai has sent the law back to the Ministry of Justice to have the law amended.

In my opinion, this is morally and islamically wrong. Islam says that woman should not be beaten unless for real reasons, which include that the husband has to have told his wife not to do what she has been doing. If she does not listen, he must spend the night away from her. If she still does not listen, then, and only then does he have the haq to hit her. But as you all know, in Pashto culture, a man uses abuse to show his masculinity to the other men in the village. They feel that by not hitting thier wives, they will be looked at as not man enough. This is wrong. Therefore, this law is morally, legally and islamically wrong.
How can we, as muslims, as human beings, let this happen in our country? The western world will blame our religion on this, not understanding that for most people, culture is more important to follow than our religion, and that everything that is done, is either haram or advised against in Islam.

What do you think?
Samia

Beating your wife is like slavery, Qoran doesn't abolish or forbids it, but we all know that slavery is wrong and around the world laws are made against slavery, the same must happen to domestic violence and hiting of women, even tough our culture and religion doesn't have strict laws against it, we as a people need to realise that hitting a human being is just wrong and bad, becuase lets face, in this time and age hitting an animal is seen wrong how the hell is hitting an another human being is justified.
And to all the people who comes up with stupid excuses like the women don't have a choise or its better for them, think about the African slaves, was it also better for them to stay in there masters house? Becuase they were also fed and got clouths there, without there rich white master they couldn't provide for themselfs. So I guess it was also a bad idea to abolish slavery and let all those people take care of themselfs.