Why have Tajiks always supported foreigners ?

[vinyard80]

One must look at how Afghanistan would look like with the BSA post 2014. You are going to have a chaotic Pashtun area where US forces will conduct special ops and bombings with a dictator like warlord ruled Tajik and hazara area which eventually will probably lead to a fragmented Afghanistan if not officially, then technically.

Without the BSA, if all American troops leave. The ANA will eventually fragment into ethnic militias depending on what the US would do. Pashtun militias most likely would join the Taliban and hazara and Tajik militias would cooperate in repelling Pashtun attacks. Since Pakistan has de facto control over supply lines, the north would be blockaded and eventually it would fall. I don't see any way where they can stand on their feet fo too long. Where are they going to get their supplies. If the US depended on pakistani supply lines to keep Taliban at bay, how on earth is the NA going to survive.

This is why the BSA only prolongs Pashtun misery.

the best option for the US is to work with the Taliban. The policy they are implementing presently will never work. I just don't see it.

Everything changes in this life. We are not in 1996. Now rules have changed for all of us. In 1996 when taliban took over Kabul, non pashtuns had almost no supplies. But in these last 13 years everything have changed. Now they have access to heavy weapons, they got rich and they can rearm their militas much better than taliban-pashtuns. All our neighbors support them, except Pakistan: Iran, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, China, India and Europe/West. You are fooling yourself with BSA. Several european countries have said they will keep troops in afghanistan (germany, italy,..etc) even after 2014. Karzai is just playing the patriotic card, but he will sign BSA because tajiks will force him to do so.

BTW with or without BSA pashtun belt always has been poor, violent and mess. Pashtun nationalist are always blaming on non pashtuns and USA of all their miseries, but most of pashtuns are unable to join hands. There are many movements among pashtuns and almost no leaders. Pashtun belt will fall in 2014 to taliban hands and that will be the end of pashtun culture and pashtun identity. They will sc*w pashtun identity. Mark my words.

[khushal]

Everything changes in this life. We are not in 1996. Now rules have changed for all of us. In 1996 when taliban took over Kabul, non pashtuns had almost no supplies. But in these last 13 years everything have changed. Now they have access to heavy weapons, they got rich and they can rearm their militas much better than taliban-pashtuns. All our neighbors support them, except Pakistan: Iran, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Russia, China, India and Europe/West. You are fooling yourself with BSA. Several european countries have said they will keep troops in afghanistan (germany, italy,..etc) even after 2014. Karzai is just playing the patriotic card, but he will sign BSA because tajiks will force him to do so.

BTW with or without BSA pashtun belt always has been poor, violent and mess. Pashtun nationalist are always blaming on non pashtuns and USA of all their miseries, but most of pashtuns are unable to join hands. There are many movements among pashtuns and almost no leaders. Pashtun belt will fall in 2014 to taliban hands and that will be the end of pashtun culture and pashtun identity. They will sc*w pashtun identity. Mark my words.

At least have the balls to admit your Tajik. There is nothing wrong with being Tajik. I hope you are aware of that.

Its all about geography and the control of trade. Supplys come from the South so Pakistan holds all the cards for Afghanistan because its landlocked. This is why Durand line was never accepted by Tajiks or by Pashtuns, and Paki Pashtuns will never join a landlocked Afghanistan because then they would be in the same misery. This is why the Brits had more influence over Afghanistan than its northern neighbor, the Soviets.

Pashtuns hold all the cards in Afghanistan because they live in a more strategic geography. Pashtuns reside in the east and west which in turn can blockade the north. This is why Pashtuns have been the historic power brokers in Afghanistan.

I know its hard for you to swallow the facts, but you should thank me for explaining why Tajik always bend over for foreigners.

[vinyard80]

At least have the balls to admit your Tajik. There is nothing wrong with being Tajik. I hope you are aware of that.

Its all about geography and the control of trade. Supplys come from the South so Pakistan holds all the cards for Afghanistan because its landlocked. This is why Durand line was never accepted by Tajiks or by Pashtuns, and Paki Pashtuns will never join a landlocked Afghanistan because then they would be in the same misery. This is why the Brits had more influence over Afghanistan than its northern neighbor, the Soviets.

Pashtuns hold all the cards in Afghanistan because they live in a more strategic geography. Pashtuns reside in the east and west which in turn can blockade the north. This is why Pashtuns have been the historic power brokers in Afghanistan.

I know its hard for you to swallow the facts, but you should thank me for explaining why Tajik always bend over for foreigners.

There are country sellers among tajiks and also among pashtuns.

Bro, I told you once... let me do it again. North and west afghanistan has now access to the sea through chabahar (thanks to india and iran) and full access to central asia through their railways and roads. There is a heavy commerce between north afghanistan and uzbekistan and tajikistan. They also have now more airports (mazars airport is even larger than kabul one). Meanwhile most of east and south afghanistan have not even roads. You must be a fool if you think we still in 1996 lol. That time talibans won because they had thousand of warriors and paki army ready to join them in afghanistan while massoud had only 15000 soldiers. Do you know what happened in taloqan in januray 2001? Massoud had 300 casualties while taliban had several thousands.. taliban won anyway just because they had more troops.

Anyway i think every afghan has his own wet dreams based on their ethnic background. Everything changes in this life. You still stuck in 1996.

BTW my identity is not the matter here. I have said several times that my dad is a pasthun and my mom is a tajik and I can not speak pashto. What is wrong with that? I bet there are many pashtuns like me on this forum.

[Khostai]

The Pashtun areas are not that isolated and poor...
Those regions also have a lot of development. You claim that people are stuck in 1996, but your point of view of Pashtun regions are also not that better than what people had about that regions in 1996.
Most of Pashtun that come back from Afghanistan always say what a hell Kabul is, and how it was good and clean to be in Jalalabad, Khost or Kandahar...

[khushal]

vineyard,
I understand that you moron. but those don't matter. Without the south, the north is nothing and without access to the sea and I mean real access, Afghanistan as a whole will remain in misery. This is evident by the fact America needed Pakistani supply lines.

[Kushan Prince]

There are country sellers among tajiks and also among pashtuns.

Bro, I told you once... let me do it again. North and west afghanistan has now access to the sea through chabahar (thanks to india and iran) and full access to central asia through their railways and roads. There is a heavy commerce between north afghanistan and uzbekistan and tajikistan. They also have now more airports (mazars airport is even larger than kabul one). Meanwhile most of east and south afghanistan have not even roads. You must be a fool if you think we still in 1996 lol. That time talibans won because they had thousand of warriors and paki army ready to join them in afghanistan while massoud had only 15000 soldiers. Do you know what happened in taloqan in januray 2001? Massoud had 300 casualties while taliban had several thousands.. taliban won anyway just because they had more troops.

Anyway i think every afghan has his own wet dreams based on their ethnic background. Everything changes in this life. You still stuck in 1996.

BTW my identity is not the matter here. I have said several times that my dad is a pasthun and my mom is a tajik and I can not speak pashto. What is wrong with that? I bet there are many pashtuns like me on this forum.

What the hell? the north and the west are landlocked you moron. If anything Chahabar is down south in iran near balochistan so in essence, when a loy afghanistan happens, pashtuns will have access to the sea since half of pashtun land is also in godar.

And your lying about your dad being a pashtun, all half breeds i know can atleast speak pashto.

[vinyard80]

What the hell? the north and the west are landlocked you moron. If anything Chahabar is down south in iran near balochistan so in essence, when a loy afghanistan happens, pashtuns will have access to the sea since half of pashtun land is also in godar.

And your lying about your dad being a pashtun, all half breeds i know can atleast speak pashto.

South is also landlocked you moron LOL

West has access to Chabahar through Eslam Qala or through Zaranj, both mainly non pashtun areas.

Loy Awghanistan and partition of afghanistan will never happen. Wake up. Tajik and pashtun nationalist will take that dream to their graves. Most of afghans love their country so partition is impossible. And most of paki pashtuns are proud citizens of that country. Same goes for baluchs for are pushing for a free baluchistan and they don't give a care about your wet dreams. So take it easy, because pakistan is a nuclear country and they would nuke all pashtun belt first.

This half breed can not speak pashto.. and I don't need to learn it, to be honest with you. I am a proud darispeaker. If I was raised in afghanistan I would learn pashto but since i have been raised abroad no pashto for me LOL

[vinyard80]

The Pashtun areas are not that isolated and poor...
Those regions also have a lot of development. You claim that people are stuck in 1996, but your point of view of Pashtun regions are also not that better than what people had about that regions in 1996.
Most of Pashtun that come back from Afghanistan always say what a hell Kabul is, and how it was good and clean to be in Jalalabad, Khost or Kandahar...

Man Herat, Balkh or Kabul, even Bamyan, compared to Helmand, Nangarhar or Paktia, are switzerland. Are you kidding me?

[Kushan Prince]

South is also landlocked you moron LOL

West has access to Chabahar through Eslam Qala or through Zaranj, both mainly non pashtun areas.

Loy Awghanistan and partition of afghanistan will never happen. Wake up. Tajik and pashtun nationalist will take that dream to their graves. Most of afghans love their country so partition is impossible. And most of paki pashtuns are proud citizens of that country. Same goes for baluchs for are pushing for a free baluchistan and they don't give a care about your wet dreams. So take it easy, because pakistan is a nuclear country and they would nuke all pashtun belt first.

This half breed can not speak pashto.. and I don't need to learn it, to be honest with you. I am a proud darispeaker. If I was raised in afghanistan I would learn pashto but since i have been raised abroad no pashto for me LOL

Do you have reading comprehension problems? i said ONCE a loy afghanistan happens then pashtuns areas won't be landlocked. You inbred ape, not once did i mention the south afg so shove your pack of lies up your arse. Farsiwan immigrants such as yourself will be crawling to godar port just to see the sea and get job opportunities.

Your last paragraph was completely of topic and a good way to derail the argument.

[vinyard80]

vineyard,
I understand that you moron. but those don't matter. Without the south, the north is nothing and without access to the sea and I mean real access, Afghanistan as a whole will remain in misery. This is evident by the fact America needed Pakistani supply lines.

Which real access? As far as I know Baluchistan is mainly inhabited by baluchs and they don't like your loy awghanistani dreams. North, west and central afghanistan don't need anymore south afghanistan. Karzai is aware of this thats why in 12 years he has not paved the road from Herat to Kabul through Bamiyan. That would boost even more non pashtun areas. Have you ever been to Herat? Most of heratis send their goods first to Mazar and then to Kabul. One decade ago they used to send it through kandahar-ghazni and then kabul. Most of non pashtuns avoid south and east afghanistan because its a lawless land and they prefer northern roads because there is more security and better roads.


About USA and pakistani supply lines you are right. But those lines were needed for 120000 american soldiers... if usa is going to keep 10000-20000 soldiers in afghanistan they will not need those supply lines anymore. They will supply their troops with airplanes. Do you know that Germany signed an agreement with uzbekistan regarding Termez as a stop-off point for NATO military flights in 2009? Man USA is just planning to split up afghanistan. But they will not success because most of non pashtuns are loyal to afghanistan.

[vinyard80]

Do you have reading comprehension problems? i said ONCE a loy afghanistan happens then pashtuns areas won't be landlocked. You inbred ape, not once did i mention the south afg so shove your pack of lies up your arse. Farsiwan immigrants such as yourself will be crawling to godar port just to see the sea and get job opportunities.

Your last paragraph was completely of topic and a good way to derail the argument.

Don't lose your cold. Bad words lead to more bad words.

Once loy afghanistan happens? what if once loy khorasan happens? what if loy pakistan happens? Man you live in a candy world with not contact with ground reality. If you are a real proud pashtun you should be afraid from talibans not tajiks, because those *******s are killing every day innocent pashtun people. But you still talking BS on parsiwans on a forum.

Loser lol

[khushal]

Which real access? As far as I know Baluchistan is mainly inhabited by baluchs and they don't like your loy awghanistani dreams. North, west and central afghanistan don't need anymore south afghanistan. Karzai is aware of this thats why in 12 years he has not paved the road from Herat to Kabul through Bamiyan. That would boost even more non pashtun areas. Have you ever been to Herat? Most of heratis send their goods first to Mazar and then to Kabul. One decade ago they used to send it through kandahar-ghazni and then kabul. Most of non pashtuns avoid south and east afghanistan because its a lawless land and they prefer northern roads because there is more security and better roads.


About USA and pakistani supply lines you are right. But those lines were needed for 120000 american soldiers... if usa is going to keep 10000-20000 soldiers in afghanistan they will not need those supply lines anymore. They will supply their troops with airplanes. Do you know that Germany signed an agreement with uzbekistan regarding Termez as a stop-off point for NATO military flights in 2009? Man USA is just planning to split up afghanistan. But they will not success because most of non pashtuns are loyal to afghanistan.

First of all I am not a loya Afghanistan person.
Your alternative routes are not viable to natural trade routes that have existed for over a thousand years. Plus even if they work, all your doing is trading to be at the mercy of another group vs the group today. That's not a solution, its just trading masters.

The best way to do this is put all this hatred aside, the hatred is created from the outside. I believe the people and I mean all the people, Pashtun, tajiks Uzbeks, Hazara, Panjabis, etc are best served if the region unites under one federation or union with everyone having real access to the sea and the resources of the region. When I say real access, I mean the border goes to the sea. The region has all the variables to become a union that can vie with the EU and China.
Historically, it has been that way

[Khostai]

Man Herat, Balkh or Kabul, even Bamyan, compared to Helmand, Nangarhar or Paktia, are switzerland. Are you kidding me?

LOL at Bamyan looking like switserland :P

[Kushan Prince]

First of all I am not a loya Afghanistan person.
Your alternative routes are not viable to natural trade routes that have existed for over a thousand years. Plus even if they work, all your doing is trading to be at the mercy of another group vs the group today. That's not a solution, its just trading masters.

The best way to do this is put all this hatred aside, the hatred is created from the outside. I believe the people and I mean all the people, Pashtun, tajiks Uzbeks, Hazara, Panjabis, etc are best served if the region unites under one federation or union with everyone having real access to the sea and the resources of the region. When I say real access, I mean the border goes to the sea. The region has all the variables to become a union that can vie with the EU and China.
Historically, it has been that way
Your alternative routes are not viable to natural trade routes that have existed for over a thousand years. Plus even if they work, all your doing is trading to be at the mercy of another group.

And how do you suggest we get that access to sea? its not going to happen without balochistan.

[ډګروال]

Can you explain how you feel the title of the thread is false/inaccurate?

I am talking about the make up of the Afghan security forces (ANA, ANP) which is majority Tajik. This is a fact.

The parliament is dominated by Tajiks, and this parliament is pro-BSA. The Karzai regime is dominated by Tajiks.

Its not news that all these representatives are not really representing the Afghan people.

its false because it mentions a whole ethnic group as if all of them think or do the same.

yes there are warlords who happen to be tajiks and there are also who happen to be ,uzbak , hazara, pashai.

Yes makeup of parliament is not based on reality of Afghanistan.
for example the representative from Ghazni is a hazara.

ANA / ANP is mostly comprised of northern alliance members and that is the concern .

The parliament is comprised of people based on rigged election and yes there could be bias and knowing the fact that elections did not happen in mostly pashtun areas (such as in case of ghazni) .
Karzai governement has many different ethnicities and factions.
there are even members of Hezbi islami. The pro BSA group is a minority in AFG and they can be tajiks ,pashtuns,uzbaks, or any other ethnicity.

i do agree with you that the so called representatives in the parliament do not represent the Afghan people.