.Pakistani ISI training of Pashtun children into suicide bombers .

[khushal]

He said that more then one time now you better search on net or youtube and you will find.
I do,nt have time to bring you source for every word he said abaout pashtuns.
BTW why you want to save him here?
Did,nt he kill your people?
Did,nt he helped US to invaed your country?

Publically, Ive only heard him say good things about Pashtuns, but its not about saving him, its about you fabricating stuff.

[jankhan]

gadoonwal is mentally ill. he thinks hurricane Katrina was the ISI farting.

Khushal wrora. I oppose most of gadoonwal's posts but I endorse his this statement that isi is doing double game. Isi is a group of munafiqeen and professional liars.

[Smarty]

Intelligence agencies do play every kind of dirty games but to say that the whole taliban phenomena is controlled and run by ISI, is not true. ISI has moles within TTP but taliban also have moles/sympathizers within army/ISI who provide them intel for successful attacks. As for as haqqani network is concerned, there seem to be some kind of contract/deal with ISI so that they can freely recruit and collect donations in pakistan. ISI is playing double game with them as most of the drone targets in waziristan are of haqqani and intel for that is provided by ISI to CIA , for dollars.

[vinyard80]

Pakistan is a poor and least developed country just like Afghanistan. ISI has not enough resources to back the whole taliban movement. Not all talibans are slaves of Pakistan. Actually there are many branches among taliban: Shura-e Quetta, Haqqani Network, Hekmatyar,..etc and many talibans are just poor pashtun peasants who dislike foreign forces in their lands.

[Smarty]

Pakistan is a poor and least developed country just like Afghanistan. ISI has not enough resources to back the whole taliban movement. Not all talibans are slaves of Pakistan. Actually there are many branches among taliban: Shura-e Quetta, Haqqani Network, Hekmatyar,..etc and many talibans are just poor pashtun peasants who dislike foreign forces in their lands.

Pakistan is surely a developing country (not exactly that poor like afghanistan which is grouped with countries like somalia) it has stable institutions , beauros thanks to British, some thing with which afghanistan is still struggling in 21st century. History of both paki army and indian army dates back to east india company times. Army, beaurocracy, judiciary, infrastructure, roads, railways etc all were gifted to pakistan and india from british. ISI was also founded by british chief of army of newly born pakistan. It is under army so is very strong and stable organization. You ask how poor ISI would fund taliban?, the answer is simple, they leeched million of dollars from america and saudi and directly controlled afghan jihad without spending a dollaro of their own. They dont need to directly fund haqqani network, they just allow them to collect funds from sympathizers within pakistan and abroad and in exchange they do have some demands.

[vinyard80]

Pakistan is surely a developing country (not exactly that poor like afghanistan which is grouped with countries like somalia) it has stable institutions , beauros thanks to British, some thing with which afghanistan is still struggling in 21st century. History of both paki army and indian army dates back to east india company times. Army, beaurocracy, judiciary, infrastructure, roads, railways etc all were gifted to pakistan and india from british. ISI was also founded by british chief of army of newly born pakistan. It is under army so is very strong and stable organization. You ask how poor ISI would fund taliban?, the answer is simple, they leeched million of dollars from america and saudi and directly controlled afghan jihad without spending a dollaro of their own. They dont need to directly fund haqqani network, they just allow them to collect funds from sympathizers within pakistan and abroad and in exchange they do have some demands.

Pakistan has lost every single war against India. I don't know why pakis are so proud of their military. They failed in Bangla Desh and they failed in Kashmir.

Wll I think you are overvaluing Pakistan. According Failed State Index of 2013 Pakistan and Afghanistan almost share same position:


1 Somalia 9.5 10.0 9.3 8.9 8.4 9.4 9.5 9.8 10.0 9.7 10.0 9.4 113.9
2 Congo (D. R.) 10.0 10.0 9.4 7.1 8.8 8.5 9.6 9.5 9.8 10.0 9.5 9.7 111.9
3 Sudan 8.8 10.0 10.0 8.4 8.5 7.8 9.6 8.8 9.3 9.8 10.0 10.0 111.0
4 South Sudan 8.9 10.0 10.0 6.5 8.9 8.6 9.1 9.8 9.3 9.6 9.8 10.0 110.6
5 Chad 9.5 9.7 8.8 8.0 8.9 8.0 9.7 9.9 9.8 9.4 9.5 7.9 109.0
6 Yemen 9.3 9.2 9.0 7.4 8.1 9.2 9.3 8.7 8.7 9.8 9.5 8.7 107.0
7 Afghanistan 9.3 9.2 9.2 7.2 7.8 8.2 9.4 8.8 8.4 9.9 9.4 10.0 106.7
8 Haiti 9.6 8.6 7.0 9.1 9.1 9.7 8.8 9.6 7.6 7.9 9.0 9.9 105.8
9 Central African Republic 8.6 9.8 8.5 6.1 9.2 7.7 9.0 9.5 8.6 9.7 9.1 9.4 105.3
10 Zimbabwe 9.2 8.7 8.4 8.6 8.6 8.6 9.2 9.1 8.9 8.4 9.7 7.8 105.2
11 Iraq 8.3 8.8 10.0 8.3 8.4 7.3 8.6 7.6 8.6 10.0 9.6 8.5 103.9
12 Cote d'Ivoire 7.8 9.3 9.0 7.3 7.8 7.7 9.3 8.5 8.6 9.1 9.4 9.7 103.5
13 Pakistan 8.9 9.1 9.7 6.9 7.9 7.5 8.4 7.3 8.7 9.8 9.2 9.6 102.9

The Failed States Index 2013 | The Fund for Peace

[Smarty]

Pakistan has lost every single war against India. I don't know why pakis are so proud of their military. They failed in Bangla Desh and they failed in Kashmir.

Wll I think you are overvaluing Pakistan. According Failed State Index of 2013 Pakistan and Afghanistan almost share same position:


1 Somalia 9.5 10.0 9.3 8.9 8.4 9.4 9.5 9.8 10.0 9.7 10.0 9.4 113.9
2 Congo (D. R.) 10.0 10.0 9.4 7.1 8.8 8.5 9.6 9.5 9.8 10.0 9.5 9.7 111.9
3 Sudan 8.8 10.0 10.0 8.4 8.5 7.8 9.6 8.8 9.3 9.8 10.0 10.0 111.0
4 South Sudan 8.9 10.0 10.0 6.5 8.9 8.6 9.1 9.8 9.3 9.6 9.8 10.0 110.6
5 Chad 9.5 9.7 8.8 8.0 8.9 8.0 9.7 9.9 9.8 9.4 9.5 7.9 109.0
6 Yemen 9.3 9.2 9.0 7.4 8.1 9.2 9.3 8.7 8.7 9.8 9.5 8.7 107.0
7 Afghanistan 9.3 9.2 9.2 7.2 7.8 8.2 9.4 8.8 8.4 9.9 9.4 10.0 106.7
8 Haiti 9.6 8.6 7.0 9.1 9.1 9.7 8.8 9.6 7.6 7.9 9.0 9.9 105.8
9 Central African Republic 8.6 9.8 8.5 6.1 9.2 7.7 9.0 9.5 8.6 9.7 9.1 9.4 105.3
10 Zimbabwe 9.2 8.7 8.4 8.6 8.6 8.6 9.2 9.1 8.9 8.4 9.7 7.8 105.2
11 Iraq 8.3 8.8 10.0 8.3 8.4 7.3 8.6 7.6 8.6 10.0 9.6 8.5 103.9
12 Cote d'Ivoire 7.8 9.3 9.0 7.3 7.8 7.7 9.3 8.5 8.6 9.1 9.4 9.7 103.5
13 Pakistan 8.9 9.1 9.7 6.9 7.9 7.5 8.4 7.3 8.7 9.8 9.2 9.6 102.9

The Failed States Index 2013 | The Fund for Peace

Who cares about achievememts and failures of paki army? You were saying Poor ISI cant fund taliban and i tried to help you understand how they operate. Afghanistan being poor/backward country or pakistan being developing country is not exactly the topic of discussion.

[vinyard80]

Who cares about achievememts and failures of paki army? You were saying Poor ISI cant fund taliban and i tried to help you understand how they operate. Afghanistan being poor/backward country or pakistan being developing country is not exactly the topic of discussion.

Sir calm down.

I claimed that ISI and Pakistan are poor and lack of resources. They can not back the whole taliban movement and you proved me right when you said "They dont need to directly fund haqqani network, they just allow them to collect funds from sympathizers within pakistan and abroad". You should not see the hand of ISI behind every taliban operation in afghanistan. They might send most of suicide bombers but I am pretty sure that pakistan has nothing to do with most of small scale taliban operation carried out on a daily basis by talibans.

Anyway I repeat: Pakistan is a failed state.

"In order to make this definition more precise, the following attributes, proposed by the Fund for Peace, are often used to characterize a failed state:

loss of physical control of its territory, or of the monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force therein,
erosion of legitimate authority to make collective decisions,
an inability to provide reasonable public services, and
an inability to interact with other states as a full member of the international community."

Pakistan has lost physical control of several parts of his land mainly in Pakhtunwah and Baluchistan. Pakistani state does not hold the monopoly of violence in pakistan. Pakistani state can not provide reasonable public services to most of his people.

Afghans are overvaluing Pakistan. They just have some nuclear bombs and a army that without american money would collapse in few months. Do you realize that prior to the american invasion of afghanistan pakistan was as strong as India? Now they are just another failed state like most of "-istans" lol

[Smarty]

^That exactly is my point. Afghan taliban are not working under ISI neither they are fighting for interests of pakistan and its establishment. The thing is that they need sanctuaries in Pakistan to effectively operate against NATO and for that shaking hands with ISI (or with some elements within it) is necessary.
Gadoonwal is also claiming that TTP is working for ISI/army but the thing is both have killed thousands of each other. May be he is confusing TTP with those taliban groups in FATA who have made non-aggression pacts with army e.g hafiz gul bahadur group or taliban groups of wana, south waziristan.

[Shamlawar Khurasani]

^That exactly is my point. Afghan taliban are not working under ISI neither they are fighting for interests of pakistan and its establishment. The thing is that they need sanctuaries in Pakistan to effectively operate against NATO and for that shaking hands with ISI (or with some elements within it) is necessary.
Gadoonwal is also claiming that TTP is working for ISI/army but the thing is both have killed thousands of each other. May be he is confusing TTP with those taliban groups in FATA who have made non-aggression pacts with army e.g hafiz gul bahadur group or taliban groups of wana, south waziristan.

There are a significant amount of people within the Taliban movement on both side of the Durand Line serving the interests of Pakistan. Some of them are compelled to do so, while others are just doing it because they are either stupid and loyal to a fat Pakistani Mullah, or they are suffering from myopia.

The ones who are compelled to serve the interests of Pakistan have their relatives kidnapped and tortured by Pakistani ISI. The stupid ones believe anything their fat halwa eating corrupt Pakistani mullah says.

However a large significant portion of Taliban on both side of the Durand Line are ideologically motivated people.

Critics and opponents of Taliban might dislike them and oppose them. But lying and painting a false image of Taliban won't help you winning the war.

[vinyard80]

^That exactly is my point. Afghan taliban are not working under ISI neither they are fighting for interests of pakistan and its establishment. The thing is that they need sanctuaries in Pakistan to effectively operate against NATO and for that shaking hands with ISI (or with some elements within it) is necessary.
Gadoonwal is also claiming that TTP is working for ISI/army but the thing is both have killed thousands of each other. May be he is confusing TTP with those taliban groups in FATA who have made non-aggression pacts with army e.g hafiz gul bahadur group or taliban groups of wana, south waziristan.

No, no, no. I did not say that. You did not get my point. Most of talibans leaders are sell out traitors to Pakistan thats why they are enjoying life in Pakistan because in Afghanistan they would be hunted down like dogs. But as Shamlawar has said most taliban fighters and commanders believe in their fight. They have an ideology and they are fighting for it. And they are strong in south and east pashtunland due to several reasons: afghan government is weak in those areas, many young pashtuns joined talibans due to nationalism, many others have been forced by talibans, some due to poverty and many others because they believe in their sick ideology. There are many reasons behind talibanism but seems some afghans are obsessed with Pakistan. I am against Pakistan policy toward Afghanistan but its also our fault. When we claim that half of Pakistan belongs to us, then Pakistan will try to burn to the ground our country because pakistans integrity is in play.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Pakistan has lost every single war against India. I don't know why pakis are so proud of their military. They failed in Bangla Desh and they failed in Kashmir.

Wll I think you are overvaluing Pakistan. According Failed State Index of 2013 Pakistan and Afghanistan almost share same position:


1 Somalia 9.5 10.0 9.3 8.9 8.4 9.4 9.5 9.8 10.0 9.7 10.0 9.4 113.9
2 Congo (D. R.) 10.0 10.0 9.4 7.1 8.8 8.5 9.6 9.5 9.8 10.0 9.5 9.7 111.9
3 Sudan 8.8 10.0 10.0 8.4 8.5 7.8 9.6 8.8 9.3 9.8 10.0 10.0 111.0
4 South Sudan 8.9 10.0 10.0 6.5 8.9 8.6 9.1 9.8 9.3 9.6 9.8 10.0 110.6
5 Chad 9.5 9.7 8.8 8.0 8.9 8.0 9.7 9.9 9.8 9.4 9.5 7.9 109.0
6 Yemen 9.3 9.2 9.0 7.4 8.1 9.2 9.3 8.7 8.7 9.8 9.5 8.7 107.0
7 Afghanistan 9.3 9.2 9.2 7.2 7.8 8.2 9.4 8.8 8.4 9.9 9.4 10.0 106.7
8 Haiti 9.6 8.6 7.0 9.1 9.1 9.7 8.8 9.6 7.6 7.9 9.0 9.9 105.8
9 Central African Republic 8.6 9.8 8.5 6.1 9.2 7.7 9.0 9.5 8.6 9.7 9.1 9.4 105.3
10 Zimbabwe 9.2 8.7 8.4 8.6 8.6 8.6 9.2 9.1 8.9 8.4 9.7 7.8 105.2
11 Iraq 8.3 8.8 10.0 8.3 8.4 7.3 8.6 7.6 8.6 10.0 9.6 8.5 103.9
12 Cote d'Ivoire 7.8 9.3 9.0 7.3 7.8 7.7 9.3 8.5 8.6 9.1 9.4 9.7 103.5
13 Pakistan 8.9 9.1 9.7 6.9 7.9 7.5 8.4 7.3 8.7 9.8 9.2 9.6 102.9

The Failed States Index 2013 | The Fund for Peace

Pakistan is in the list only since the past few years.

Pakistan is holding 37% of kashmir(india 43% and China 20%),Bangladesh war was our own mistake.

Pakistan doesnt has just few nuclear bomb unless your talking from your posterior.Pakistan nuclear program is the fastest growing one in the world,you can google about this

While india has just one operational plutonium production reactor

Pakistan has 3 Operational,Fourth one as per ISIS had just recently close to be completed.as per 1996 info,the Khushab I had the capability of producing 14-19kg of plutonium per year.Khushab II was bigger and Khushab III might be even bigger

6kg of plutonium was used in the Warhead dropped on hiroshima without the addition of tritium into it,Pakistan also has the Tritium production capability since 80's thought he heavy water reactor in khushab has its own.

As per Independent estimates Pakistan this year has 110-130 warheads while India has about 100-110 warheads.

If we consider each warhead at only 40kt.it means we can easily destroy more than 100 cities of India which has total 200 cities.

Other than this as per independent sources pakistan by 2020 will replace British warhead stockpile.

Pakistan GDP by PPP is all set to reach 1trillion dollars by 2018-19.While GDP nominal more than 300 Billion dollars by 2015.Which means We can easily reach the target of 500-550billion dollars by 2018 or this govt end

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Pakistan is indeed playing the double game

Pakistan is keeping touch with Afghan taliban since they know if we don't,They will also turn against us.America or west will abandon the region as they did in Iraq with just an annual aid of 2billion dollars to iraq

Pakistan cannot ahve bad relation with Afghanistan taliban since they know it will be a big mess to fight Both Pakistani and Afghanistani taliban

[vinyard80]

Pakistan is in the list only since the past few years.

The difference between afghanistan and pakistan is that our country has been at war since 1979 against Russia, against pakistani proxies and now with USA. Whats your excuse? You can not fool me. I know many pakistani people. One good friend of mine told me that in most of Pakistan and even in pakistans largest cities there is no electricity, clean water or other basic services.

Because of your wrong policy now you are taking a bit of your own medicine. You have been playing with fire and now its time to pay. Enjoy it.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

The difference between afghanistan and pakistan is that our country has been at war since 1979 against Russia, against pakistani proxies and now with USA. Whats your excuse? You can not fool me. I know many pakistani people. One good friend of mine told me that in most of Pakistan and even in pakistans largest cities there is no electricity, clean water or other basic services.

Because of your wrong policy now you are taking a bit of your own medicine. You have been playing with fire and now its time to pay. Enjoy it.

Ofcourse Pakistan is a Poor country,Yes there is alot of poverty and Problems in Pakistan

But atleast Pakistan as a state does offer Immunity from foriegn invasion,Limited health and education.

Electricity in Pakistan is all the mistake of past govt.Guys like smarty or any fellow Pakistan can tell you the situation of Electricity in Pakistan in the past.

Yes it was our own mistake but still we are capable enough to handle them on our own.we will sort the problem ourselves.