Myth of American decline

[Admin Khan]

The decline of a society Admin Khan is not in its GDP or its wealth, its in its depravity. The US today is working against the very principles it was founded upon. The US has become too much power hungry, that is their decline. 10 50 100 years ? It might take a while but the social, moral and economic decay is there.

Talal,
The fact is, for as long as the US remains the innovation hub of planet earth, successfully continues to integrates all of its communities(Queens, NY is the most diverse borough on planet earth) along with the attraction of immigrants, good luck finding a successor. What folks realize is that what the US has done in it's own territory is remarkable, and should be praised. I can't think of another country in which Pakistanis in Ocean Parkway can walk around in their traditional clothing and have the times of their lives, while enjoying the wealth and human rights, or the Afghan diaspora producing lawyers, doctors, scientists, from elite global universities, along with having 5 mosques, built by themselves, in just Flushing, Queens, alone. To a large extent, Education encourages growth. Remember Talal, if MIT were to be a country, the companies it has produced would be the 11th largest economy on earth. And that's just 1 university.

"Globally, a less conservative estimate of their annual world sales would equal $2 trillion, producing the equivalent of the 11th-largest economy "

That makes Pakistan economy, merged with Afghanistan along with several other Asian countries, peanuts in comparison. Innovation is often underrated.

Source: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/k...tudy-0217.html

[Loy Afghanistan]

Talal,
The fact is, for as long as the US remains the innovation hub of planet earth, successfully continues to integrates all of its communities(Queens, NY is the most diverse borough on planet earth) along with the attraction of immigrants, good luck finding a successor. What folks realize is that what the US has done in it's own territory is remarkable, and should be praised. I can't think of another country in which Pakistanis in Ocean Parkway can walk around in their traditional clothing and have the times of their lives, while enjoying the wealth and human rights, or the Afghan diaspora producing lawyers, doctors, scientists, from elite global universities, along with having 5 mosques, built by themselves, in just Flushing, Queens, alone. To a large extent, Education encourages growth. Remember Talal, if MIT were to be a country, the companies it has produced would be the 11th largest economy on earth. And that's just 1 university.

"Globally, a less conservative estimate of their annual world sales would equal $2 trillion, producing the equivalent of the 11th-largest economy "

That makes Pakistan economy, merged with Afghanistan along with several other Asian countries, peanuts in comparison. Innovation is often underrated.

Source: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/k...tudy-0217.html

How many of them living on credit? US is a country where money is worshipped, if you have money there you are king and above all laws. I told your how your financial fraud system is build up, yet you ignoring that fact. Go have fun with your savage, colonial Empire nation build up petrodollar, when it collapses don't cry to new countries, specially Afghanistan.

I would be ashamed if I lived in a country and praised their illusion lifestyle who based their doctoring on world domination and wars.

[Bengal_Tiger]

The UK was the world's leading power a century ago and at one point occupied 25% of the world.

It is a shadow of its former self but still a major power and one of the most influential countries on earth.

Germany was defeated in WW2 and so was Japan but both states are very influential on the world stage and have more diplomatic influence than let's say a failed third world terrorist state like Pakistan with its boasts of being a "nuclear power".

The US will still be powerful for the foreseeable nature however it is not as powerful as it was let's say 10 years ago and the trajectory that it is following is one of decline.

a: 10 years ago it could bypass the UN, ignore Russia and China and illegally invade Iraq.

b: 10 years later it could not do the same in Syria, with Syria being a far weaker state than Saddam's Iraq.

Even before Syria, the American regime could not actually send ground troops to Libya but merely used a no-fly zone. They could not even establish a no-fly zone over Syria.

Internally

Internally America is facing problems such as poverty as well as America heading towards becoming a majority non-white country in the next few decades, with many white Americans, though not saying it overtly, considering "America" as a white nation and "Americans" to mean white Americans.

To some white Americans they would want to live in a rump majority-white "real America" (continuation of historically predominantly white America) rather than be a racial minority in a multi-ethnic US. They would however disguise this in more sophisticated language and cite economic reasons or dissatisfaction with Washington and the federal regime and use that to justify any move by their state to withdraw from the union.

America is also losing its manufacturing capabilities due to outsourcing.

However on its plus side America has discovered shale oil.



* * *

The decline of America coincides with the rise of China and whilst the latter gains in strength and the former weakens, the international community will be able to ensure that the hyper-aggressive rogue state which is the US will not be able to continue bullying and destroying countries as it is doing now (though less frequently).

Russia, China and India are all working towards weakening U.S. power e.g by weakening the petro-dollar a key pillar of the US' world dominance.

America will still be a major world power in 30-40 years time and unfortunately probably the world's no.1 power for at least the next 20 years but we are now entering a period of a balance of power, where as Syria has shown, the US has limits in who it can bully and destroy.

However for the meantime unfortunately America can still do a lot of damage and cause a lot of suffering and misery.

[Talal]

Talal,
The fact is, for as long as the US remains the innovation hub of planet earth, successfully continues to integrates all of its communities(Queens, NY is the most diverse borough on planet earth) along with the attraction of immigrants, good luck finding a successor. What folks realize is that what the US has done in it's own territory is remarkable, and should be praised. I can't think of another country in which Pakistanis in Ocean Parkway can walk around in their traditional clothing and have the times of their lives, while enjoying the wealth and human rights, or the Afghan diaspora producing lawyers, doctors, scientists, from elite global universities, along with having 5 mosques, built by themselves, in just Flushing, Queens, alone. To a large extent, Education encourages growth. Remember Talal, if MIT were to be a country, the companies it has produced would be the 11th largest economy on earth. And that's just 1 university.

"Globally, a less conservative estimate of their annual world sales would equal $2 trillion, producing the equivalent of the 11th-largest economy "

That makes Pakistan economy, merged with Afghanistan along with several other Asian countries, peanuts in comparison. Innovation is often underrated.

Source: Kauffman Foundation study finds MIT alumni companies generate billions for regional economies - MIT News Office

I understand and can to a great extent appreciate your admiration for the progress US has made in these fields Admin Khan. After all to people like you and me, we look at these things to sort of see how well off a society is. But myself and I think a couple of other posts here raise some very valid points regarding the steep moral and social decline in the american society.

A society that has the ability to track every single moment of your daily life can sure boast immense technological advancement but you can't give it much points for being "land of the free" any longer. They have gotten too much blood on their hands Admin Khan, the american dream is no more.

But you're right it is immature to call doomsday right now, they are far from done.

[khushal]

unless they change the tide, they are done. There are very few influential people that are actually doing something about it but those voices are not loud enough. The elites are taking this country towards its decline.
If we can learn anything from history, The Mughuls decline started with Arengzeb with khushal khattak one of the few who talked about the elites of the time taking the empire towards its decline. A few decades after that, the richest empire on earth could not stop a couple of no name rag tag warriors named Nadir Shah and Ahmed shah from conquering its territory.

After Snowden's revelation, US leaders must find a way to guarantee civil liberties and privacy. Otherwise Bush and Obama are going down as the Arengzebs of America and Snowden as the Khushal Khattak of America.

[khushal]

http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....-u-s-prestige/
Americans see declining U.S. prestige

By Bruce Stokes, Special to CNN
Editor’s note: Bruce Stokes is director of global economic attitudes at the Pew Research Center. The views expressed are his own.

The debate over America’s alleged decline was one of the subtexts of policy debates during last year’s U.S. presidential election, and it remains a recurring theme in the partisan punditry of foreign policy scholars today. But at a time when the Obama administration has been focusing on domestic challenges like the roll-out of the Affordable Care Act, a new Pew Research Center survey finds that many foreign policy experts have turned bearish on the United States. And the American public appears to agree – U.S. global power and prestige are in decline.

Public support for U.S. global engagement was already near an historic low earlier this year, and it has declined further still. The public thinks that the United States does too much to try to solve the world’s problems, and increasing percentages want the U.S. to “mind its own business internationally” and pay more attention to problems at home.

Indeed, for the first time in surveys dating back 40 years, a majority of Americans say the United States plays a less important and powerful role as a world leader than it did a decade ago, according to the latest Pew poll “America’s Place in the World,” a quadrennial survey of foreign policy attitudes conducted in partnership with the Council on Foreign Relations. The share saying the U.S. is less powerful has increased 12 points since 2009 and has more than doubled – from just 20 percent – since 2004.

An even larger majority says the U.S. is losing respect internationally – fully 70 percent say the United States is less respected than in the past, almost identical to the level reached late in former President George W. Bush’s second term. The public’s sense that the United States has lost respect is up 15 percentage points since early 2012.

Meanwhile, the public’s skepticism about U.S. international engagement – evident in “America’s Place in the World” surveys four and eight years ago – has increased. Currently, just more than half of Americans say the United States “should mind its own business internationally and let other countries get along the best they can on their own.” Just 38 percent disagree with the statement, the most lopsided balance in favor of the U.S. “minding its own business” in the nearly 50-year history of the measure.

After the recent U.S. confrontation with Syria over its chemical weapons program, the NATO involvement in the Libyan civil war and lengthy U.S. military deployments in Afghanistan and Iraq, about half of Americans say the United States does too much in helping solve world problems. When those who say the U.S. does “too much” internationally are asked to describe in their own words why they feel this way, nearly half (47 percent) say problems at home, including the economy, should get more attention.

So what is behind the shift? Partisanship seems to be a major factor in the public’s evolving view of U.S. global power. Nearly three-quarters of Republicans say the United States plays a less important and powerful role than it did 10 years ago, up from 50 percent four years ago and just 8 percent in July 2004.
For political independents, the percentage who view the United States as less powerful has also grown, from about a quarter in 2004 to 55 percent today, while Democrats’ perceptions have changed little over this period; in the current survey one third say the U.S. is less powerful today than it was a decade ago.
Interestingly, partisan differences are not quite as pronounced in opinions about whether the United States is respected internationally. Majorities of Republicans (80 percent), independents (74 percent) and Democrats (56 percent) view the United States as less respected by other nations than in the past. And there is more partisan agreement that the United States should be less active internationally. Just over half of independents and Republicans and 46 percent of Democrats say the United States should mind its own business internationally. In 2002, following the September 11 attacks, about a quarter of independents and Republicans, and 40 percent of Democrats wanted the United States to mind its own business internationally.
Meanwhile, foreign policy experts are also negative about the ongoing U.S. role in the world. A companion survey of members of the Council on Foreign Relations, a nonpartisan membership organization and think tank specializing in U.S. foreign policy, found that they see the U.S. as a less important and powerful world leader – 62 percent express this view, compared with 44 percent in 2009 and 25 percent in early September 2001, shortly before the 9/11 attacks.
All this suggests that the debate over the United States’ supposed decline is likely to continue on editorial pages and political talk shows – it seems to be an irresistibly fascinating topic

[Shah-i-Kot]

[QUOTE]

Talal,
The fact is, for as long as the US remains the innovation hub of planet earth, successfully continues to integrates all of its communities(Queens, NY is the most diverse borough on planet earth) along with the attraction of immigrants, good luck finding a successor.

Is it correct for me to understand that you are defining a superpower as the most technologically advanced/innovative society even with economic recession/decline?

"Globally, a less conservative estimate of their annual world sales would equal $2 trillion, producing the equivalent of the 11th-largest economy "

That makes Pakistan economy, merged with Afghanistan along with several other Asian countries, peanuts in comparison. Innovation is often underrated.

Source: http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/k...tudy-0217.html

China is the largest trading partner of the world's nations currently, not the US.

The parameters you are using for defining superpower seem to center around innovation and size of economy (regardless of whether there is economic decline or not- the US economy has been in recession for nearly 17 years now).

Its a multipolar world.

[Shah-i-Kot]

Nations/Empires collapse when they are in debt to another power. The way Europe broke the Ottoman Empire was through loans/finance/credit.

European monarchs/governments gave loans to build railways that crossed the whole empire, connecting all the different provinces. Constructing the railway itself was the fatal error the Ottomans made because it was via these financed railways that Europe began shipping arms/weapons to Arabs to turn against the government.

The US/Europe are in major debt to China, and China is continuing to finance that growing debt.

[randolph85]

but if the west goes belly up, so will china's economy which depends on a strong western economy that consumes its goods. a strong west and strong china is a win win for both sides and both sides understand this.

the US isn't in so much a decline as others are just catching up faster. the US is still the innovative capital of the world, there is really no question about that.