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  • Myth of American decline

    The Myth of America's Decline: Why the 'Declinists' Are Wrong (Again)

    It has become conventional wisdom in recent years that America is in decline, perhaps terminally so.
    Josef Joffe, a professor at Stanford and editor of the German weekly magazine Die Zeit, turns this mindset on its head in his new book: The Myth of America's Decline."
    It's a cyclical phenomenon," Joffe says of the predictions of America's decline. But just as "declinists" were wrong about Russia in the 1950s and Japan in the 1980s, current forecasts about America playing second fiddle to China will also prove wrong, he says.
    Related: U.S. Economy Will Trump China's in 2014
    "All the Asian dragons and tigers started out at double-digit speed, then came down like Japan to nothing, or South Korea to 4%" growth, Joffe notes. "The [export-driven] model runs out of steam" because it's based on investment at the cost of consumption, and features too much state interference leading to over-investment in certain sectors, leading to declining marginal returns, he explains.
    "That is already happening to China," he adds, noting that West Germany went through a similar experience after its initial post-war boom.
    In addition to overstating the power of its rivals, Joffe says America's naysayers also underestimate our attributes, most notably:
    Bring Us Your Tired and Poor: Immigration has been a hot-button issue throughout America's history, yet we continue to attract and absorb millions of people from around the world. The influx of immigrants helps keep America young -- certainly younger than rivals like Japan and Russia -- and provides "brute dynamism" to the U.S. economy that is unmatched globally, he says.
    "The Europeans, Chinese and Japanese cannot handle immigration [which] yields the most precious natural resource in the 21st century economy," he says.
    Johnny Can Read: Despite longstanding concerns about America's education system, the U.S. is home to 17 of the world's top 20 universities and 34 of the top 50, Joffe notes. This gives us a huge leg up in terms of attracting the world's best and brightest (see above). Joffe call the U.S. "the world's Ph.D. factory" -- as well as in R&D spending.
    Related: America May Be #1 But Our Kids Are Below Average
    In his book, Joffe says the biggest threat America faces is from within: If we were to "freeze up" and really limit immigration or severely restrict upward mobility, then America truly might be in decline.
    As for President Obama's recent claim that America is suffering from "a dangerous and growing inequality and lack of upward mobility," Joffe is dubious.
    "If it is true, then it's serious, that engine of self reinvention would slow down," he says. "But you
    can parse [the numbers] either way. The president, of course, is playing politics."
    And there's nothing new about that, as with much of what Joffe says is happening in today's debate about America's outlook.

    The Myth of America's Decline: Why the 'Declinists' Are Wrong (Again) | Daily Ticker - Yahoo Finance
    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

  • #2
    [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION]

    What are your thoughts?
    Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

    A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

    For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


    The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

    -Ferishta, 1560–1620

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
      @BarakzaiAbdali

      What are your thoughts?
      The US is a powerful nation and many projections discuss American dominance for decades to come.

      Some common sense things to think about

      1) A land mass covering the continental US for just a population of 300 million
      2) Two large oceans and two friendly countries (relatively) on its borders
      3) A diversifying gene pool and ability to absorb immigrant populations (somewhat dependent on 1) above
      4) Its science leadership

      are in its favor.

      But there are other things that are going on that are worrisome for America and Americans

      1) Erosion of civil liberties or their redefining under an imperial Presidency
      2) Power projection with all the costs and only some of the benefits (first super power to lose a series of wars post WWII)
      3) Status in the world has become reliant on economic fortune as opposed to the prior image of an "America above the frey." Recent disclosures have even close allies balking at the American moral imperative:

      What I mean by this is that America if fond of touting civil liberties and human rights as well as economic fairness in competition. Recent examples would be the US accusing China and others of spying on it for gaining an advantage. Take a look at this Greenwald discussion today:
      http://www.svt.se/ug/glenn-greenwald...e-is-hypocrisy

      This has resulted in America's image as the shining city on the hill, an example for all, the hope for humanity etc etc etc to come under fire from allies and enemies alike due to these disclosures that have unmasked the state security apparatus that works with business interests.

      4) its all volunteer army is comprised of working class people and this has resulted in excess expenditures from which the general population is shielded from costly wars abroad.

      5) The quality of life for many Americans is now dependent on global economics driven by American capitalist interests. In the new economy American workers have to compete with Indians, Chinese etc. NPR was discussing how this has impacted the ability of the business leaders to quash workers/unions etc.

      6) The gap between the have and have nots has widened and will continue to widen (look at projected costs of a good college degree in the coming decades - this will place higher education squarely in the hands of the upper middle class and above).

      7) Rapid social changes to the family fabric are being dictated by the elites (Hollywood, leftwing liberals).

      8) Its mathematics and science education for the general populace is far behind relative to its super power status (see the recent comparison of public schooling across the world where South Korea came in 1st).
      ------------------------------------------------------

      Admin,

      I have always advocated realism... I am not one of those people that thinks America is on the verge of collapse.

      If the British Empire (and Ottoman Empire before it) merely contracted - that is the worst common sense fate that would await the American Empire.

      I think the real question will be - will American dominance continue to bring the AVERAGE American all of the benefits that it used to?

      In our era (your and mine) we are seeing funny things happen - such as the simultaneous expansion of access to health care, yet the probable rationing of aspects of that care (yet the billions spent on building other countries could pay for the whole population's healthcare 20 times over)... so I would say its a slow ebb and decline but not some sort of cataclysmic impending fall.

      We almost saw a sort of economic cataclysm with the TARP funding (largest loans to sustain an economic system in history) - but the rule of the day was that those who are mighty (Western powers) are the ones that determine the value of their own assets and money and decide when their people will pay a little of their relative wealth to keep the system from falling apart.
      "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by BarakzaiAbdali View Post
        The US is a powerful nation and many projections discuss American dominance for decades to come.

        Some common sense things to think about

        1) A land mass covering the continental US for just a population of 300 million
        2) Two large oceans and two friendly countries (relatively) on its borders
        3) A diversifying gene pool and ability to absorb immigrant populations (somewhat dependent on 1) above
        4) Its science leadership

        are in its favor.

        But there are other things that are going on that are worrisome for America and Americans

        1) Erosion of civil liberties or their redefining under an imperial Presidency
        2) Power projection with all the costs and only some of the benefits (first super power to lose a series of wars post WWII)
        3) Status in the world has become reliant on economic fortune as opposed to the prior image of an "America above the frey." Recent disclosures have even close allies balking at the American moral imperative:

        What I mean by this is that America if fond of touting civil liberties and human rights as well as economic fairness in competition. Recent examples would be the US accusing China and others of spying on it for gaining an advantage. Take a look at this Greenwald discussion today:
        http://www.svt.se/ug/glenn-greenwald...e-is-hypocrisy

        This has resulted in America's image as the shining city on the hill, an example for all, the hope for humanity etc etc etc to come under fire from allies and enemies alike due to these disclosures that have unmasked the state security apparatus that works with business interests.

        4) its all volunteer army is comprised of working class people and this has resulted in excess expenditures from which the general population is shielded from costly wars abroad.

        5) The quality of life for many Americans is now dependent on global economics driven by American capitalist interests. In the new economy American workers have to compete with Indians, Chinese etc. NPR was discussing how this has impacted the ability of the business leaders to quash workers/unions etc.

        6) The gap between the have and have nots has widened and will continue to widen (look at projected costs of a good college degree in the coming decades - this will place higher education squarely in the hands of the upper middle class and above).

        7) Rapid social changes to the family fabric are being dictated by the elites (Hollywood, leftwing liberals).

        8) Its mathematics and science education for the general populace is far behind relative to its super power status (see the recent comparison of public schooling across the world where South Korea came in 1st).
        ------------------------------------------------------

        Admin,

        I have always advocated realism... I am not one of those people that thinks America is on the verge of collapse.

        If the British Empire (and Ottoman Empire before it) merely contracted - that is the worst common sense fate that would await the American Empire.

        I think the real question will be - will American dominance continue to bring the AVERAGE American all of the benefits that it used to?

        In our era (your and mine) we are seeing funny things happen - such as the simultaneous expansion of access to health care, yet the probable rationing of aspects of that care (yet the billions spent on building other countries could pay for the whole population's healthcare 20 times over)... so I would say its a slow ebb and decline but not some sort of cataclysmic impending fall.

        We almost saw a sort of economic cataclysm with the TARP funding (largest loans to sustain an economic system in history) - but the rule of the day was that those who are mighty (Western powers) are the ones that determine the value of their own assets and money and decide when their people will pay a little of their relative wealth to keep the system from falling apart.
        You know Dr.Abdali, one question I always wanted to ask you, is about Obama care. What is your thoughts on it. I know I'm going slightly off-topic here, but a lot of my colleagues continue to bash it, claiming it's going to hurt as Engineers(well, not really us, since our company has hired a bunch of Physicians(well, quite a lot to be honest), on our site at our disposal, serving just us, to help see us when we are sick or have a flu or something as opposed to booking an appointment with someone else; one of our perks for free)but more or less the average American would be affected. What are your thoughts mashra?
        Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

        A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

        For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


        The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

        -Ferishta, 1560–1620

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
          You know Dr.Abdali, one question I always wanted to ask you, is about Obama care. What is your thoughts on it. I know I'm going slightly off-topic here, but a lot of my colleagues continue to bash it, claiming it's going to hurt as Engineers(well, not really us, since our company has hired a bunch of Physicians(well, quite a lot to be honest), on our site at our disposal, serving just us, to help see us when we are sick or have a flu or something as opposed to booking an appointment with someone else; one of our perks for free)but more or less the average American would be affected. What are your thoughts mashra?
          Tell me if this good article answers some of your questions:
          http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...653308300.html
          "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

          Comment


          • #6
            This is like the man who crosses the river to run away from the someone chasing him- running away from reality/problems instead of facing it. Hence, the problem is never solved and becomes worse with time.

            The US has the best education system in the world, and will remain so for a period of time provided there is money to keep funding alive. There is a somewhat fair justice system compared to other parts of the world. There is a rule of law for most, but a few exceptions. Opportunity is available for all, more so than compared to any other nation. This does not mean there is not a decline.

            The fact is the American economy has been in a recession for the last 17 years (as Clinton left office, recession began during Clinton years)- a definition of a decline.

            Compare US and China.

            Fact is that China has overtaken the US as the world's largest trading partner (meaning more nations do trade with China than with the US). China overtakes US in world trade | Business | theguardian.com

            China has also overtaken the US as the largest buyer of oil.
            China overtakes U.S. to become world's biggest oil importer - Business - CBC News

            China has a higher need for energy compared to the US.

            US is in over 17 trillion dollars debt , China has a cash surplus.

            Put aside economy, and analyze other measures. Education for example. Here is the latest news and an example of denial.

            Are American Students Really that Dumb? - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

            These all are examples of decline.


            The US and European economies are in the continual collapsing state that they are in today due to one major reason, spending trillions of dollars/euros on a failed war in Afghanistan. Greece (where most of the defense companies are based) was one of the first Western economies to crash, and that is the future.
            Last edited by Shah-i-Kot; 12-10-2013, 12:25 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Shah-i-Kot View Post
              This is like the man who crosses the river to run away from the someone chasing him- running away from reality/problems instead of facing it. Hence, the problem is never solved and becomes worse with time.

              The US has the best education system in the world, and will remain so for a period of time provided there is money to keep funding alive. There is a somewhat fair justice system compared to other parts of the world. There is a rule of law for most, but a few exceptions. Opportunity is available for all, more so than compared to any other nation. This does not mean there is not a decline.

              The fact is the American economy has been in a recession for the last 17 years (as Clinton left office, recession began during Clinton years)- a definition of a decline.

              Compare US and China.

              Fact is that China has overtaken the US as the world's largest trading partner (meaning more nations do trade with China than with the US). China overtakes US in world trade | Business | theguardian.com

              China has also overtaken the US as the largest buyer of oil.
              China overtakes U.S. to become world's biggest oil importer - Business - CBC News

              China has a higher need for energy compared to the US.

              US is in over 17 trillion dollars debt , China has a cash surplus.

              Put aside economy, and analyze other measures. Education for example. Here is the latest news and an example of denial.

              Are American Students Really that Dumb? - US - CBN News - Christian News 24-7 - CBN.com

              These all are examples of decline.


              The US and European economies are in the continual collapsing state that they are in today due to one major reason, spending trillions of dollars/euros on a failed war in Afghanistan. Greece (where most of the defense companies are based) was one of the first Western economies to crash, and that is the future.

              Brothers, you all ask the questions, but nobody can give clear answers. The biggest fraud country in the world the so called US is going to collapse this is a fact. Because in the history of mankind, from the beginning and the end of it. It has never survived debt as it does in the modern day. There is absolutely no logical system nor mathematical conclusion that a nation should thrive and live so long with so much debt.

              In the past, when a nations treasury was empty, it couldn't even survive a week before collapsing, even soviet union collapsed because of this. The petrodollar system since, 1973, has given the US their advantage against all nations in the world world. How, do you ask? Because they can print as much of worthless money as they want as long all OPEC countries "allows" the oil (nr 1 source of energy) being sold only in dollar. The biggest looser in this will be rest of the world, because of their scam dollar being a world currency. The advantage of world currency is that all nations must do business with the dollar currency and thus US treasury gets a fee in the whole world trade.

              But this does not end here, when you OWN a currency that powerful nothing is impossible, you can print as much money you want, buy everyone in the world and that's how you become a superpower. But in the end it is not sustainably, the mathematics behind this doesn't hold and it will collapse, like in the 2007-08 economic crash. The next one may be the last one.

              That's why people/leaders etc who are cowards and spineless sub humans sell their own motherland, people and dignity for a fistful of dollars. When the westerners can't buy someone, they kill him or invade their country.

              What I think will happen after the collapse the inevitable system collapse .

              The powerful parasites is going to make a new system with their illusion democracy and start this process again, it may not even work, otherwise they will chance on ww3.
              Last edited by Loy Afghanistan; 12-10-2013, 05:37 AM.
              To Paradise, with Pakhto, I will go.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] that was helpful.

                To keep it simple, I strongly believe that the USA is just too powerful/diverse/educated to collapse, or loose its strategic power. As long as we have the MIT's[world's number 1 university, 1], and the Google's, good luck for any country wishing to compete. To summarize China's innovation, to them [MENTION=1772]BarakzaiAbdali[/MENTION] stealth jets mean painting the air craft with black paint as much as possible so it can't be seen at night. I guess, as the author put it, for as long as the US is the #1 destination for immigrants, nations will have a hard time competing. As a Muslim, born and raised in the USA, I've had more opportunities here than I would've in any other Muslim dominant country. The aforementioned speaks volumes. Nor have I any tasted, or witnessed "discrimination or racism", and I am no where near as educated as the BarakzaiAbdali, or the President of San Jose State University(an Afghan), or Wali Karzai(distinguished Professor of Biochem), etc.

                Best,

                Source of my MIT claim:

                MIT has been named the world's top university for the second year in a row. See how it compare to the rest of the world's top 100 institutions in the QS' 2013 rankings

                Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                -Ferishta, 1560–1620

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                  Thank you @BarakzaiAbdali that was helpful.

                  To keep it simple, I strongly believe that the USA is just too powerful/diverse/educated to collapse, or loose its strategic power. As long as we have the MIT's[world's number 1 university, 1], and the Google's, good luck for any country wishing to compete. To summarize China's innovation, to them @BarakzaiAbdali stealth jets mean painting the air craft with black paint as much as possible so it can't be seen at night. I guess, as the author put it, for as long as the US is the #1 destination for immigrants, nations will have a hard time competing. As a Muslim, born and raised in the USA, I've had more opportunities here than I would've in any other Muslim dominant country. The aforementioned speaks volumes. Nor have I any tasted, or witnessed "discrimination or racism", and I am no where near as educated as the BarakzaiAbdali, or the President of San Jose State University(an Afghan), or Wali Karzai(distinguished Professor of Biochem), etc.

                  Best,

                  Source of my MIT claim:

                  http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...vard-cambridge
                  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-rankings.html
                  Admin,

                  It is more complex than just this. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction and US history is also very intricate.

                  There is no doubt that as an empire, the US has a pluralistic bent to it. Many leading empires before it also had this component to their success (even Genghis Khan had mosques, churches, and pagodas in his realm).

                  There are also different types of discrimination that you and I may not see because of social status playing some role too.

                  1) It is only in recent memory (Lyndon Johnson's era) that civil rights became codified. It took the sacrifice of Malcolm X and many many deaths and lynchings to earn these rights for minorities we see in action. And these rights were not given easily. While a white man like Cheney dodged the draft and flunked out of school - a black man with a conscious like Boxer Mohammad Ali was jailed for not wanting to fight a war that he knew was wrong.

                  The US elite saw that their own society was becoming unstable (60s rioting and deaths) and they realized they could not keep up the charade of touting their human rights record and also deny these people their dignity.

                  2) Proof that this mindset continued can be seen even into Reagan's era. Cheney and Reagan supported, as a National Policy apartheid South Africa and were against Mandela in support of the white south African population in the name of the cold war struggle.

                  3) What of the fact of how Latinos are treated? The Americas are more theirs than they are subsequent peoples'. The Latinos have the blood of indigenous Americans coursing in their veins. Yet they are threatened with deportation, work the lowest paying jobs, and are vilified by the "minute men" under the guise of border protection.

                  4) Complex factors also ensure that the US is stable enough to let the majority cede some ground to minorities. As I stated before you have a country with tons of wealth, a relatively small population, and a huge land mass. Its not as if everyone is competing for resources intensely or living in a land with imposed borders... This natural environment and stability also promotes this sort of "trickle down" effect.

                  5) Its no longer simply race discrimination or gender discrimination, but also class discrimination or monopoly that is coming into vogue. There are the haves and the have nots. While the country has many opportunities for those in need - these are shrinking in the face of the whims of the elites.

                  i.e. The elites decide to waste money, fund TARP, go off to unnecessary wars and the paycuts are imposed on the have nots in the form of taking away their social benefits.

                  -----------------------------------------------------------

                  The above is not to take away from the accomplishment of the American people in building a powerful nation. Every power in history deserve some accolades for the unique contribution to advancement and humanity that it provides alongside of the careful maneuvers of strategists to elevate a people to empire status.

                  Have Muslims felt discrimination?

                  Well that depends on what you define as discrimination. Recent work from Yale shows that trial by jury in cases of traditionally ethnic Muslims are overwhelmingly won by prosecutors versus other entrapment cases that are often dismissed when evidence is scant.

                  Muslims moderates are chided by the media to "scorn and identify extremists" even though most of these people do not know or could not convince the latter despite their already vocal attempts to do so... yet they are vilified as being in collusion and not doing enough. Can catholics all identify which priests are child molesters? Can moderate Christians neutralize the fundamentalists that are ardent about bringing Armageddon around with wars?

                  I would posit that in most places in the world (Russia, America, England) if you keep your head down, do your work, and don't get involved in anything political (even if its just words) you wont be bothered for the most part... but I would also posit that recent evidence shows if you buck the status quo and create a problem for the goals of the elite your rights will be trampled upon.

                  Look at the behavior of these "moral" leaders of the world in the case of London's Gaurdian Newspaper where they are prosecuting it in Britain for publishing the Snowden files. Look at how people of conscience like Thomas Drake are treated when they speak out through proper channels initially.

                  So its not simply a race issue or a gender or a religious issue anymore:
                  Its such that if you question the faux moral imperative or speak out in a way that jars the objectives of the powerful, your rights will be trampled upon.

                  But this happens throughout history right? So I am not going to judge America or Americans too harshly on this aspect of life.

                  Regarding Muslim countries - I would say that comparing the US to Egypt, Pakistan, Afghanistan, or even Turkey is unfair since these are post colonial nations that are imposed constructs and paradigms with continued funding from the prior occupying entities... they do not reflect a purely free people who were left to their own devices to develop pluralistic societies. Rather, the colonial power put a few "khan" types in power and even killed off those "khans" that opposed them - and then left these sorts in power and wrote their constitutions for them.

                  When Muslims were even briefly left alone in history and autonomous we see inklings of pluralism. For instance, Ahmad Shah Abdali allowed Hindus to be a merchant and trader class in Kandahar (that is not to say at all that they had rights equivalent to what is found in a modern pluralistic society - but it is still a good example for the 1700s when black people were slaves in the West).

                  Just my 2 cents.
                  "2 crackheads don't become any better or stronger by sharing the same crack pipe." - Greatest PF quote

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When a human being wants to leave its own soil and wants to lead her/his whole life till death in another country and then his generations continue to do the same, can be the best criterion to decide which country is a power and which country is the land of opportunities.


                    The only country come to mind int his regard is USA and the next is Canada, Australia, Western Europe . Then comes Japan, may me Singapore and others

                    Not only the people want to immigrate there but spend thousands of dollars and take risks even of travelling in a sinking boat or clinging to an airplane.

                    If China is overtaking USA then why we do not want to go and spend rest of our lives there.

                    Islam in 1400 years did not make any country attractive for immigration. The reason is mixing religion with politics and economy. All the developed countries are democratic and secular.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      With so many countries that are having problems with America and a country suffering with economic problems, i see it collapsing like Rome in a century or so. When you are being threatened by NK with nukes, you know your doing something wrong.
                      Last edited by Kushan Prince; 12-11-2013, 10:16 PM.
                      "Revenge is a dish best served cold".

                      -Old Pashtun proverb




                      "My Pashtun Pride i will not hide!"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Admin Khan View Post
                        Thank you @BarakzaiAbdali that was helpful.

                        To keep it simple, I strongly believe that the USA is just too powerful/diverse/educated to collapse, or loose its strategic power. As long as we have the MIT's[world's number 1 university, 1], and the Google's, good luck for any country wishing to compete. To summarize China's innovation, to them @BarakzaiAbdali stealth jets mean painting the air craft with black paint as much as possible so it can't be seen at night. I guess, as the author put it, for as long as the US is the #1 destination for immigrants, nations will have a hard time competing. As a Muslim, born and raised in the USA, I've had more opportunities here than I would've in any other Muslim dominant country. The aforementioned speaks volumes. Nor have I any tasted, or witnessed "discrimination or racism", and I am no where near as educated as the BarakzaiAbdali, or the President of San Jose State University(an Afghan), or Wali Karzai(distinguished Professor of Biochem), etc.

                        Best,

                        Source of my MIT claim:

                        http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...vard-cambridge
                        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-rankings.html
                        Admin Khana,
                        IIT competes with MIT. Some say its even better.
                        Documentray on IIT in an American TV Channel CBS in the famous show "60 minutes" - YouTube


                        The one thing that America has and its losing it as we speak is that the worlds best and brightest come to the US. This is Americas secret weapon.
                        Dr. Michio Kaku America Has A Secret Weapon - YouTube

                        If America loses its civil liberties, it will lose its secrete weapon.
                        http://www.migrationinformation.org/...lay.cfm?ID=571

                        More countries today are competing to attract the best and brightest. Germany which had the previous status as number one of attracting the best and brightest lost that status after Hitler eroded civil liberties there.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by khushal View Post
                          Admin Khana,
                          IIT competes with MIT. Some say its even better.
                          :
                          Even Adobe Photoshop can't change me.

                          A line[Durrand line] of hatred that raised a wall between the two brothers -Hamid Karzai

                          For generations, the Hindus of India prayed for deliverance from "the venom of the cobra, the teeth of the tiger and the vengeance of the Afghan."


                          The men of Kábul and Khilj also went home; and whenever they were questioned about the Musulmáns of the Kohistán (the mountains), and how matters stood there, they said, "Don't call it Kohistán, but Afghánistán; for there is nothing there but Afgháns and disturbances." Thus it is clear that for this reason the people of the country call their home in their own language Afghánistán, and themselves Afgháns. The people of India call them Patán; but the reason for this is not known. But it occurs to me, that when, under the rule of Muhammadan sovereigns, Musulmáns first came to the city of Patná, and dwelt there, the people of India (for that reason) called them Patáns—but God knows!

                          -Ferishta, 1560–1620

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                          • #14
                            The decline of a society Admin Khan is not in its GDP or its wealth, its in its depravity. The US today is working against the very principles it was founded upon. The US has become too much power hungry, that is their decline. 10 50 100 years ? It might take a while but the social, moral and economic decay is there.



                            It's enough that I know, Our time had a home, In your heart..Was a place..But the glass always breaks..

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                            • #15
                              ^^Talal,
                              You should note that your pic is from Nelson Mandela's funeral.

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