Decoding Pakistan’s Punjabi Problem.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Badlun Saheb

Doesn't Toramana have a fair point in that a practical review of problems for any issue involves both external and internal factors?

Historically a few ethnic groups have had to suffer under the contradictory nature of a nation state that on the one hand claims to be a zionistic type homeland of Muslims but then at the same have had to endure ethnic domination in certain particulars by one particular group.

It is fair to say that maybe 1/10 of the population (probably even less) of that particular ethnic group hoards resources, etc but that powerful 1/10th with their policy of centralizing power in the Panjab and directing resources there and ensuring war does not touch any aspect of that province - has derailed any prospect of, to steal terms from the Americans " a more perfect union "? Otherwise, why would the Bengalis, Baloch, and Pashtun factions all chafe collectively under these circumstances?

And dont the external circumstances predispose the internal behavioral patterns to emerge in the inflicted chaos?

Meaning you posit that radicalism is the chicken that lays the egg of our circumstance... but Toramana is successfully arguing within the democratic nation state paradigm that you wholeheartedly endorse and showing that it has actually not benefited Pashtuns, Baloch, Bengalis etc when it comes to equality, fraternity, civility etc.

[Pakwatan]

hmm.. my family has agricultural land in punjab.. exactly what tax do you pay?? on agriculture??.. "what do you mean "we" are the only ones that pay tax.. Who steals electritiy? who supports the most corrupt poltical system? who manipulates the prices of sugar, chicken, etc etc and screw the poor?

See do not think too highly of yourself saying that you pay the most tax when we know proportionally karachi probably pays the most tax. also if punjab is paying more tax than KPK compare the size, populations, level of industrialization of the two provinces.. also understand that punjab receives the most tax waivers.. (You can do your reading on that..)..

Also alot of tax collections in punjab mostly go towards infrastructure development etc ect.. while most of the tax earned in kpk goes towards fixing things that are destroyed due to war imposed on KPK.. and alot of the time the redevelopment falls short.. See if operation against taliban/relegeous extremists is such a nice thing.. why not do it in southren punjab.. when we know that most people from kpk and fata are mercineries.. while most extremists from punjab actually belives in this ****.. thinking that if they kill innocent people they would actually get 72 hoors.. no operation in south punjab yet again shows how punjab uses its number to screw smaller ethnic groups..

Salaam Khan saab,

If your family does own land in Punjab then you should know the taxes that us farmers pay.

Just a few of them are:

Abiana-which is tax on the water

Malia-which is land tax

Oshar-an Islamic tax imposed by Zia-ul-Haq.

And the more recent one is the income tax which means we get even less profits or even break even.

You should know that farmers whether Pashtun or Punjabi are very hard working people. If you've ever worked a day on a farm you know this.

[Khilji]

[MENTION=1201]Toramana[/MENTION]
If you really want to understand me and have a meaningful debate not calling names and blames like an old rustic woman ,then spare some time and comment on my thinking posted above and below

After introducing my approach a little bit, now I would like to comment further on what’s happening in Pashtun lands and why I hold Pashtuns responsible for what’s going on. What’s going on Pashtun areas? First problem identification then causes and finally its solution

A SHORT LIST OF THE PROBLEMS AND ISSUES IN PASHTUN AREAS AND SOCIET

Terrorism ,Religious Extremism, Violence ,Insurgency ,Suicide bombings, Abundance of Madrassas and Tablighis, Male chauvinism, Law and order issues, Absence of security , Ignorance, Intolerance towards others, no Democracy , Radicalization of Pashtuns, Obscurantist trends, No Education, Plight of women, the rule of Mullah and Taliban, No commercial and industrial activities, no Scientific and technological development, no Nobel Prizes, no Advancement of knowledge , Literature , natural/social sciences and philosophy, Almost no Inheritance for women, Almost no women Education, Burqa and veil curse ,Low social status of Pashtun specially in non Pashtun areas like Karachi , Emirates etc, tribal system, health issues, family planning, big families, poverty, no official status of Pashto in practice, no good news papers of Pashto , No reading and writing of Pashto language, some bad customs in Pashtunwali and Pashtun way of life , proverbial innocence, tenacity, war like nature , belligerence, stubbornness etc of Pashtuns , no excellent media, smuggling, drug trafficking, agricultural problems, land distribution system , political distribution in two countries and many provinces within Pakistan and Afghanistan and many other social, economic, political, religious, economic and educational issues.

After identifying some of the main problems and issues of Pashtuns and their society, now I shall very briefly talk about the causes of all these problems.

One can imagine easily that problems are always a vicious circle. One problem generates another and the snowball effect magnifies the volume and size of the predicament. For example lack of modern education causes problems like religious extremism, obscurantism, terrorism etc and these problems cause lack of opportunities for imparting and receiving modern education.

Similarly no official status of Pashto language making its writing and reading difficult and scarce but no reading and writing of Pashto by almost 70 millions of Pashtuns make this language deprived of any official status. Some bad customs in Pashtun society, tribalism, and stubbornness of Pashtuns make them ignorant, uneducated and ignorance and no education make Pashtuns more tribal and stubborn.

Simple conclusion is that one problem become cause of the other and what’s important is breaking this vicious circle on all fronts and making Pashtuns a modern, prosperous, progressive, well educated and developed people.

Now coming to the most important part, how can we solve all these problems and issues?

My solution as always is based on self observation, self critical, self improvement, reformation, education, change, development, renaissance, renovation, reorganization, restructuring, overhaul, and rectification NOT BLAMING OTHERS. Even if Pashtuns are sure that my this very problem is because of Punjabis, USA etc, they should not concentrate on blaming them, but should retrospect their own selves that why Punjabis is doing such and such with us. Why we become prey to their hunting. How can we make ourselves strong enough that they may not dare to harm us?

My this approach is based on some political and philosophical notions like Realism and Pragmatism, on some very simple proverbs like as you sow so shall you reap, on verses of Rahaman Baba like kar da gulo ka che sima de gulzar shi, kar da azcho makrha che pa pkho ke ba de khar shi( if you sow flowers you ll get a garden of flowers, if you sow thorns then you shall get your feet injured) , on some Quranic verses like one cannot change oneself if he or she does not want that, some sayings of the Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) that every one is responsible for his/her own deeds etc.

My approach is internal, intrinsic, within our own selves not targeting others.
USA destroyed parts of Japan in Second World War, instead of blaming USA, Japan concentrated on self improvement even by making USA its friend and now the success of Japan as an economic power is not a secret.

My request to all Pashtuns is to concentrate on their own self improvement instead of wasting energies against their enemies. Something is wrong with us that’s are why others are having opportunities to destroy us and deprive us of our own rights and privileges.

I know the complexity of the problems of Pashtun society and its solution is not easy. It’s like asking for a moon but for thousands years of journey we have to take the first step from the zero. The worst thing is that there is no any such reformation movement in Pashtun areas. The political parties are busy in their day to day politics. NGOs are either not allowed to work in Pashtunland or they concentrate on particular issues like alleviation of poverty etc.

Bacha khan Foundation may be an exception and for the time being the only hope. Other intellectuals are either busy in writing poetry or blaming others for the problems of Pashtuns. I wish we could have a reformist/educational movement for all Pashtun areas in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The local population must rise against Taliban and should expel them from Pashtunland. This was seen in some parts of Pashtunkhwah as Bajaur and had good consequences.

We can have a two pronged policy, working for peace by expelling Taliban and meanwhile educating and reforming Pashtuns and having legal business and commercial activities.

A detailed research is required on the issue of the tribal system and Pashtuns. For me the only positive aspect of the tribal system is keeping alive the Pashtun identity and some good customs and traditions of Pashtuns other wise its an evil which must be wiped off if a balance can be maintained between preserving Pashtun identity, values and the extirpation if tribal system.

The very non democratic nature of tribal system, the male dominance in tribal affairs specially in jirgas, customs like swara, the role of malaks and khans, honor killings, the system of collective punishment, the absence of any effective judicial or legislative or executive system, the authoritative role of political agents, unpredictability of tribal leadership, loyalty to tribe instead of over all Pashtun cause, internal tribal wars and fights, resistance to modern education and development, tribalism as an obstacle in a national government of Pashtuns are some of the aspects which require urgent reformation and restructuring of tribal system in Pashtun areas in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

I differentiate Pashtun tribalism from other tribal systems as in Europe, Pakistan, and Kurds etc. Pashtun tribal system has its own peculiarities. I agree that Pashtun society in general is egalitarian but the tribal system depends more on maliks and tribal leaders and collective responsibility than on individual fundamental freedom rights. I don't say that political agent in Pakistan is an indispensable or integral part of tribal system. I hate that institution and it must be eradicated as soon as possible. He is a dictator in a system where there is no judiciary, no legislature only a despotic executive.

I know something of the Pashtun social fabric both in villages and cities , both in tribal and settled areas , and what ever I don't know will learn from friends. I feel no hesitation in learning something new. IF I AM TRYING TO REFORM PASHTUN SOCIETY I MUST REFORM FIRST MY OWN SELF.

I don't think that tribal system is based on total equality. In tribal system individual rights are smashed. I have lived part of my life in tribal areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan and I know how an individual survives in tribal society. What matters is the tribe, the society, the malik, sardar, warlords, drug traffickers, the political agent, not an individual Pashtun man or woman. Don't talk of woman. My heart weeps when I see that women have no say in any tribal or social affair of Pashtun society. I love Pashtun tribal system that it makes Pashtunwali alive, but the system can be reformed.


Once again I will stress that I don't deny role of external factors and contextual elements in a reformation process. Our behavior as an individual and as a group or nation is our response to a stimulus and stimulus is any change in environment. Environment may be biological, social, economic, cultural or of any other type. But what I SUGGEST THAT WE MAY NOT BLAME THESE EXTERNAL FACTORS FOR OUR PROBLEMS and we as an individual, group or society may control our external factors too so that we receive positive stimulus not negative. And my reforms are not on individual basis I want a collective effort WITH THE HELP OF FRIENDS AND WANT TO ESTABLISH AN EDUCATIONAL AND DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATION AS SOON AS POSSIBLE.

I agree with the uniqueness of each individual but society and collective goals make the destination one through education for collective benefits. Each individual quality when combined with others becomes a great force and that's why revolutions and national changes occur by reformation movements.

I once again say that for some problems of Pashtuns external factors are responsible but what I contest is that for any disease there must be first an internal immunity system and if not then there must be some prescribed medicines which may be injected in the internal body so that the body can resist all those antigens in case the internal antibodies don't work.

Pashtuns must have an inbuilt defense mechanism or a protection program against any foreign body. If Pashtuns as a people resist effectively then this would be the sign of a living great nation. Pashtuns as a minority in Pakistan and as majority in Afghanistan must protect their interests; no body from out side will come to their help. Outsiders may create problems but will never solve problems. The outsiders can be exploited in problem solution once there exists a real zest and zeal on internal front. USA defends Israel because Israel has made from itself a great nation.

If we see external factors responsible for our problems still we have to resist ourselves, just blaming them won’t solve the problem. I never mean that all causes are internal, what I mean is that the solution lies in our own hands. If we don't take steps to solve those problems then we Pashtuns are to be blamed. Pashtuns can only solve their problems no body else. This is the crux of the theory of Realism.

The vehicle which I talk for the change can be political parties, NGOS, reformation and development organizations. The issues are not intangible as the issues are very real like terrorism, extremism, education, literacy, economy, drugs, Talibanization, role of mullah, tribal system, women rights etc .Do you think all these issues are not concrete, not tangible, not solid all abstract. Otherwise one can tell that these problems are not real and there is no need to do anything for these issues and that we are living in a perfect society and there is no need for further change.


If the analysis presented here is not realistic then the readers may please make it so. I am not here just telling my standpoint. Readers’ contribution will make the analysis deeper and clearer. I think that we have to take into account the entire interplay of the diverse factors in order to understand the problem. Please let’s take into account all these factors and to reach a clear picture of the issue.

I also opine that the historically weak political structures of Pashtun society was unable to effectively respond to the intervention of outsiders’ .This weakness we have to remove. I would like to make it clear that my focus is not only on the present turmoil albeit it is the main part of my discussion; I take start from the Khilji, Lodhi and Suri Pashtun dynasties till Taliban. The Pashtun society, economy, language, culture all are my targets for my reforms package.

I am of the opinion that the uneven topography and hard terrain remained an obstacle in the integration of Pashtuns. This fact even one can see in the various dialects and accents Pashtuns have specially the hard and soft dialects. I am a hard dialect speaker and when I for the first time met a Wazir friend, I was really unable to understand his conversation with me. Many times I thought to request him to talk to me in English, Persian or Urdu but that was against my Pashtunwali. However later on I understood that it was mainly the matter of two letters KHIN/SHIN and GE/JHE and few geo-synonyms like dodai and marhai/tikaley. But now in this modern era we don't have these problems and now media and communication facilities have played an importance role that the absence of geographic proximity may not be an important factor for the non integration of Pashtuns and elimination of tribal system.

The geo -strategic location of Pashtun land can be exploited by Pashtuns to their advantage and can bargain with the foreign powers for getting them benefits. The land locked situation can become a problem that’s why Pashtuns have to maintain good relations with all concerned to reach the warm waters of Arabian sea and may be Iranian coasts.

I am not in favor of the various invasions and colonization in principle but even these invasions and colonization could be utilized for the benefit of Pashtuns. We can always learn from advanced nations as British introduced some very good things like railway lines, education system, Post system, Legal codes etc.

Pashtuns like Sher Shah Suri also colonized India and had introduced great reforms which were even continued by British government in India. Always there can be mutual learning between occupied and occupiers. I don't think Pashtuns were marginalized in Cold war rather the soviet invasion on Afghanistan rekindled Pashtun nationalism and Pashtun consciousness of being Pashtun. As a child I remember when the communists used to talk of Pashto and Pashtuns and books in Pashto surged and I read da Capital of Marx in Pashto later. Now I don’t see that enthusiasm for Pashto books these days. Dr Najeeb like people was a great product of that Pashtun awareness.

Afghan War by CIA/Americans (NOT Russians FOR ME) further added to the political fragmentation and paving the way for extremism. Involvement of Pashtuns with Indian Muslim nationalism is also a valid point but more dangerous was the Deobandi-Wahabi influence on Pashtuns. War on terror also played havoc with Pashtuns.

WHAT HAPPENED THAT HAPPENED? There are good and bad times in the history of nations. Now we should abolish the tribal structure with the preservation of Pashtunwali and should reform Pashtun society in way that Pashtun become a modern developed nation based on the tenets of Pashtunwali.

Some friends blame only Punjabis for all the problems of Pashtuns. I never link my analysis with the Pashtun national character but I put responsibility on Pashtuns to improve their situation. AND SOME TIMES GOOD CHARACTERISTICS OF PASHTUN BEING A UNIQUE RACE and qualities like their sincerity, bravery, hospitality , become problem to them and others exploit them. (On Punjabis and Pashtuns I have written separate articles).

ONE THING I WOULD LIKE TO CLARIFY THAT FOR SOME CURRENT PROBLEMS YOU MAY ACCUSE PANJABIS BUT many problems of Pashtuns come from earlier times, before the division of India in 1947 and many problems after 1979 when USA/CIA AND THE THEN GOVERNMENT OF PAKISTAN WHICH MAY NOT BE ESSENTIALLY PANJABI used Pashtuns against Soviet invasion, THE RISE OF EXTREMISM, WAHABI INFLUENCE ETC. Making only Punjabis responsible for all the problems of Pashtuns is not just.

In this article I have tried to sum up my approach, my ideas, my personality, my dreams, my goals, my philosophy, my ideology, my theories, regarding Pashto and Pashtuns with a humble request to correct me where the readers deem it, to suggest me where they feel, to propose new ideas and solution where they consider. All in positive, impersonal, objective and constructive way for the betterment of Pashtuns and Pashto. We may avoid no ill feelings, no personal attacks, no labeling, and no abuses PLEASE.

I want to see a successful reformation movement in Pashtuns with the tools of realism, pragmatism, education, social changes, cultural adjustment, economic and social development, religious reconstruction, legal modifications. I think that first Pashtuns should be educationally advanced, economically developed then they may jump into politics of unification. Religion should be their personal affairs, Taliban and Mullahs should not decide for them. They may not struggle for changing borders instead they should concentrate on their education, culture, language, economy etc where ever they are , in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Middle east , USA, Canada , Europe.

And above all they should become consciously Pashtuns. Pashtunwali should be their pride and their identity. They should them selves read Pashto and practice Pashtunwali and teach the same to their children, friends and family members.

When I say NO POLITICS then from this I mean no politics of changing borders and talking of ideas like Pashtunistan or Loy Afghanistan etc. These ideas have already wasted much of the time and energy of our intellectuals without any result. I say intellectuals because I don't see any movement for these ideals. Even the political intellectuals and politicians like those of ANP and PMAP have reconciled with Pakistan and I don't see any such movement on the other side of Durand line to struggle for Loy Afghanistan etc.

But I don't suggest that Pashtun should not take part in internal politics where they are citizens. If they are citizens of Pakistan they should fully participate in local politics, the same in Afghanistan and even in Europe etc. If I differentiate Pashtun tribalism from other tribal systems as in Europe, Pakistan, Kurds etc. Pashtun tribal system has its own peculiarities.

I agree that pashtun society in general is egalitarian but the tribal system depends more on maliks and tribal leaders and collective responsibility than on individual fundamental freedom rights. I don't say that political agent is an indispensable or integral part of tribal system. I hate that institution and it must be eradicated as soon as possible. He is a dictator in a system where there is no judiciary , no legislature only a despotic executive.


In Pakistan and Afghanistan Pashtuns should defeat the religious extremists and should struggle for their due rights and status. Along with all this internal politics, they must concentrate on education, culture, economy, language, society, family, environment and other issues.

We should understand the simple self reformation and self improvement. Approach if a student does not want to learn , a teacher cant force things into his/her skull. Fault lies with student not with teacher. Fault lies with Pashtuns not with others. I request the honorable Pashtun intellectuals to think over the ugly reality that why, why we Pashtuns are so vulnerable to the influence of others. Why we are so weak , so susceptible, so easy to be enticed, duped, played with, deceived, why , why ,why. Do you think we Pashtuns are perfect We have no responsibility at all in what’s going on in THE Pashtunland. Its only Punjab, ISI who are doing all this so easily with Pashtuns, lets suppose they do all these evils ,then why we let them do it WITH US ,why.

The solution is inherent strength, making our own walls strong so that the thief does not enter our home. The thief will try to steal, to loot but we should not let him/her to do so, this is very simple. I don’t know why we don’t understand this simple point. For how long we shall waste our energies in blaming others , why not we reform our own selves instead of just blaming others and becoming happy, that accusing Punjab and ISI , my job is done

My solution is change, reformation, education, development, leaving religious extremism, modernism, secularism, democracy, generation of economic activities by competition, hard work and better management not by becoming slaves to others. Being political citizens of a country by ones own sweet will and choice is not slavery as some friends think Pashtuns are slaves of Punjab in Pakistan.

Implementation of any suggestion, solution or idea is a long, difficult but possible. Discussing the issue is 25 % implementation. First you diagnose the problem (25%), then you provide the solution (25 %) and then you solve the problem by taking practical steps (50%). As here the problem is related to the 70 million Pashtuns, its complex but can be solved. Many nations like Jews have gone through worst situation but now you see Jews in Israel as a developed nation.

my solution is still, fight the porkis-pakistan and usa out from pashtun areas they are the main problem.founder and creator of terrorists warlords etc specialy in pashtun baloch areas in pakistan where hazaras now also victims of pakistani usa and even iranian created terrorism for exampl khyber pakhtunkhwa quetta parachinar balochistan .

[Badlun]

You cannot understand that it is primarily the responsibility of the govt to create environment and formulate policies as well as implementation mechanisms to spur industrial and civic development in an area. The govt does this not only through public sector investment but also through support to the private sector. The govt always has a complete monopoly over where would large-scale industrial investment and development go. It can even prefer one type of industrial development over the other.

Do you know how has Ranjit Singhistan denied KP its competitive advantage it has in power sector whereas has given the same advantage to Punjab in the form of provincial control over cotton production, distribution, and utilization, which in turn has lead to cotton industry in Faisalabad . It is very simple. An industrialist of Faisalabad procures cotton at subsidized price from local market and also gets the power which comes from KP and Baluchistan in the form of electricity and natural gas. An industrialist from KP on the other hand has to buy power to run his industry at the same rate but cotton at an elevated rate from Punjab. Who is the winner ultimately.

And now you are telling Baluchis they are themselves responsible for their condition the same excuse a die-hard Ranjit Singhi from Central Punjab would make.

You are more dangerous than a Mullah can be in my opinion.

There are two kinds of governments., federal and provincial. In KP and Balochistan and Sindh Pashtuns, Balochs and Sindhis have their independent governments and now after 18th amendment these governments are stronger and can do whatever they want to do for their people.

In federal government you have members of national assembly and senate from all provinces and can raise any point regarding their people under the constitution approved by all ethnicities including Pashtuns' representative Wali Khan in 1973.

ANP was in power many times and they might have raised such issues where you feel deprived. Wwhen there is a will there is a way. If Pashtuns want they can struggle for their rights. If I agree with you that Punjabis is a hurdle in the way of Pashtuns then why the traditionally brave Pashtuns cannot fight for their rights.

Government has a limited role in economic development. Private sector is what matters in free market economies. Pakistan or Afghanistan are not communist states.

Power and Cotton have the same rates in the whole country. We find cotton in Punjab because the land is suitable for it. Tarbela dam is in KP not in Punjab because the dam could be constructed only there. Still if you have any issue then fight for that democratically not just blaming others like a sick defeated mentality. Fight like a lion not moan like a dog.

[Badlun]

Badlun Saheb

Doesn't Toramana have a fair point in that a practical review of problems for any issue involves both external and internal factors?

Historically a few ethnic groups have had to suffer under the contradictory nature of a nation state that on the one hand claims to be a zionistic type homeland of Muslims but then at the same have had to endure ethnic domination in certain particulars by one particular group.

It is fair to say that maybe 1/10 of the population (probably even less) of that particular ethnic group hoards resources, etc but that powerful 1/10th with their policy of centralizing power in the Panjab and directing resources there and ensuring war does not touch any aspect of that province - has derailed any prospect of, to steal terms from the Americans " a more perfect union "? Otherwise, why would the Bengalis, Baloch, and Pashtun factions all chafe collectively under these circumstances?

And dont the external circumstances predispose the internal behavioral patterns to emerge in the inflicted chaos?

Meaning you posit that radicalism is the chicken that lays the egg of our circumstance... but Toramana is successfully arguing within the democratic nation state paradigm that you wholeheartedly endorse and showing that it has actually not benefited Pashtuns, Baloch, Bengalis etc when it comes to equality, fraternity, civility etc.

As I mentioned earlier I don't deny role of external factors and contextual elements in a reformation process. Our behavior as an individual and as a group or nation is our response to a stimulus and stimulus is any change in environment. Environment may be biological, social, economic, cultural or of any other type. But what I SUGGEST THAT WE MAY NOT BLAME THESE EXTERNAL FACTORS FOR OUR PROBLEMS and we as an individual, group or society may control our external factors too so that we receive positive stimulus not negative.


I once again say that for some problems of Pashtuns external factors are responsible but what I contest is that for any disease there must be first an internal immunity system and if not then there must be some prescribed medicines which may be injected in the internal body so that the body can resist all those antigens in case the internal antibodies don't work.

Pashtuns must have an inbuilt defense mechanism or a protection program against any foreign body. If Pashtuns as a people resist effectively then this would be the sign of a living great nation. Pashtuns as a minority in Pakistan and as majority in Afghanistan must protect their interests; no body from out side will come to their help. Outsiders may create problems but will never solve problems. The outsiders can be exploited in problem solution once there exists a real zest and zeal on internal front. USA defends Israel because Israel has made from itself a great nation.

If we see external factors responsible for our problems still we have to resist ourselves, just blaming them won’t solve the problem. I never mean that all causes are internal, what I mean is that the solution lies in our own hands. If we don't take steps to solve those problems then we Pashtuns are to be blamed. Pashtuns can only solve their problems no body else. This is the crux of the theory of Realism.

[Tiger Khan]

Salaam Khan saab,

If your family does own land in Punjab then you should know the taxes that us farmers pay.

Just a few of them are:

Abiana-which is tax on the water

Malia-which is land tax

Oshar-an Islamic tax imposed by Zia-ul-Haq.

And the more recent one is the income tax which means we get even less profits or even break even.

You should know that farmers whether Pashtun or Punjabi are very hard working people. If you've ever worked a day on a farm you know this.

dude?? how many actually pays that?? ..

also i have to take this oppotunity to agree with badluns point of view.. that we have to start fixing things by ourselves and from within.. Also i dont know why are we clinging to the idea of agriculture.. agriculture doesnot do much.. its industry and services...

[Tiger Khan]

Salaam Khan saab,

If your family does own land in Punjab then you should know the taxes that us farmers pay.

Just a few of them are:

Abiana-which is tax on the water

Malia-which is land tax

Oshar-an Islamic tax imposed by Zia-ul-Haq.

And the more recent one is the income tax which means we get even less profits or even break even.

You should know that farmers whether Pashtun or Punjabi are very hard working people. If you've ever worked a day on a farm you know this.

also know that the agriculture income was exempted from paying tax for 60 years of pakistan.. i think they tried levying tax on income over a certain size of agriculture land.. here is an artcile pertaiainig to it... web is full this information..

It is gratifying to note that, though belated, the government of Gen. Pervez Musharraf has issued firm directive to all the provincial governments to levy a tax on agriculture income at a uniform rate w.e.f. 1.7.2001. Although basic exemption have been raised generously, it may be viewed as a good beginning provided enforced with a strong will.
The decision was taken in a meeting of federal cabinet chaired by the chief executive which approved the recommendations of the implementation committee on Agriculture Income Tax to harmonise provincial legislations on the subject. As recommended by the committee, the provinces will issue notifications making only owners of 50 acres or more to file a two-page Agriculture Income Tax return. It will be applicable to only those whose taxable agriculture income exceeds the exempted limit of Rs. 80,000. The total number of such farmer assessees is reported to be only about 20,000 in the entire country with an average of no more than 200 such agriculture income tax payees per district.
Approval was also accorded to empower the provincial governments through their respective legislature, to grant remission of agriculture income tax in case of calamity or crop failure. Personal hearing has to be ensured before imposition of penalty. The cabinet also approved toning down of penalties for failure to furnish IT returns and for default in payment.
Levying of tax on farm incomes has been an issue as old as the state of Pakistan, but an alliance of feudal lords, civil and military bureaucrats and agricultural technocrats has successfully kept these incomes out of the orbit of taxation for 54 years.
A serious challenge to this alliance came in the eighties when Pakistan had to seek the assistance of the International Monetary Fund, which, in turn, laid down tax on farm incomes as one of its conditions for help. Despite being in dire need of IMF aid on several occasions and the promises made by successive governments to enforce the levy, they avoided doing so, on one pretext or another, for over a decade and a half.
It has been a considered view of independent economists in the country and has been repeatedly vouched by IMF and World Bank that "It is criminal to keep farm income out of tax net," but the powerful feudal lobby, which dominated the Parliament, always successfully and tactfully defied all attempts by various governments in the past to bring this highly potential segment into normal tax net.
Emphasizing the need to bring farm income under normal tax net, the donor agencies have pointed out more than once that exemption of this sector from normal income tax laws has prompted industrialists to buy vast lands to hide their income. Now it is an established practice of all business houses to hide their income under the garb of agriculture. Large industrial houses in the country had also bought agri-farms to hide their incomes. So, taxing the farm sector is also important to check tax evasion.
It was expected from the government of General Pervez Musharraf, which is free from any such political compulsions and does not need the political support of the feudals, can deliver by implementing this measure repeatedly emphasized by the IMF and World Bank and economic managers of the country both within and outside the government. The present government has been commended by the donor agencies for earnestly trying to meet their conditionalities. It is reportedly again under the pressure of the IMF that the federal cabinet has now acted on the recommendation of an experts committee set up earlier to levy a tax on farm income at a uniform rate in all the four provinces from the next fiscal year, and issued a directive to this effect. One only hopes that this time the tax would not only be levied but fully realized. (Nothing has happend so far)

Please do not confuse expenses with tax.. you have to pay for water etc.. but there is not tax on agricultural income..

[gadoonwal]

The history of punjab is serving master,chaplosi and yes ,farming.
They got pakistan with help of evil british empire to divide pashtun power .
The pahstuns kicked hard the britishes in their ass and in response the evil divide pasthun country into pieces.
The evil brtish instaled abdurahman a pupet to sign a fake treaty wich pashtun never accepted that time and now.
Since then true pashtun never rise to power and if some reached got killed.
i hope we will set our boundry near margala height accross attock.
it is only a matter of time and the rise of pashtuns.

[Tiger Khan]

Punjabis are not only good in agriculture but also in industry and services. The hub of textile industry is Faisalaabd, the electric and metallurgy in Gujrat and sports goods as well as surgical instruments in Sialkot. Lahore is also an industrial city. Hotel and other services are very strong in Punjab.

They are shrewd and professional people. They do not live in nostalgia of empires and padarm sultan bood mentality. Hats off to Punjabis .

In Pashtun areas you will not find neither agriculture nor industry nor services , the three pillars of economy. What you find is abundance of Fazlullahs, Omars, Haqanis, false pride of graveyard of empires which made the Pashtunland land a real graveyard. The only industry we have is the illegal arms and pressure cooker bombs for suicide attacks.

textile in faisalabad because that where or close to where the cotton is produced.. do you have any place in kpk where cotton is produced??!.. and yes cotton is the largest industry of this country.. machenery etc is all now coming from China...there was a huge checmical and surgincal units in kpk .. but have been shut down thanks to war.. also the industry of mining etc can not be explored thanks to war.. while defense is being called "illegal industry in this forum" although it is one of the largest and most profitable insdutires.. Amercia being exibit "A'. if it is not being regualrized.. governemnt should step up and do something about it..

[Tiger Khan]

Do you know the ground realities. Do you know what is ISSB and where are its centers? Do you know that is there any bar on entry of Pashtuns or others to participate in ISSB ? Do you know what is CSS? Is it a ethnicity base exam? Even they have quotas for Pashtuns, Balochs, Sindhis and FATA and at the same time all ethnicities can participate in open merit in all these exams.
Do not blame others. Khpal grewan ke hum lag ugora. khpal gholey khachan aw da bal jaroo. sta malgari kho khilafat aw da ummat khabarey kawi
aw sta ANP wala pa islamabad aw pekhawar dwano ke nast wi no da khpal haq khabara waley na kawi
da toley stomzey ba hala awareegi che da pashtano pa chaperchal ke da badlun ghag khor shi , awal zaan dey bya jahan dey

See.. i agree with you to a certain extent (believe it or not).. .. I totaly understand that so many nations are great in the world today because they worked hard and perceviered when everyone else was working against them.. i also agree that the change start from within.. i also agree that its easy to pin ones short comings on other and than not do anything yourself..

However, my approach is to teach pashtuns about what wrong has been done to them and where and how? that will open their eyes to real wolrd, which might give them reason to unite and work towards their growth and development toaghter..

I am not emotional i can see that pashtuns can be crude.. illitrate.. and even plain disrespectful.. but i see something which is heavier than all those short comings.. which is honesty (Still in many cases), Hard work and Tawakul.. (Arabic for blind faith in God).. You give them clear direction and you have created something great..

[jankhan]

Pashtuns have unique and distinguish qualities that the other nations don't have but that needs to be polished. But our people are not sophisticated, we are straightforward we think and do straightforward.
Punjabis are more sophisticated especially their educated class and this you can see in thier policies making and decision making. For example how they use beaurocracy to rule over the country then how do they use ISI and ISI use their literature and resources. For example ISI is doing two, three opposite things but at the same time they are able to justify their actions and have taken the whole nation in confidence.
We pashtuns are straightforward, we call it munafiqat, chalaki, ayyari, darogh, makkari and double game. And thus this reflects when you go to have a business deal with them or any other deal. Lahoris, gujratis are famous for these traits.
now we have to understand it whether it is style of the game or it is a double game.

[Tiger Khan]

Pashtuns have unique and distinguish qualities that the other nations don't have but that needs to be polished. But our people are not sophisticated, we are straightforward we think and do straightforward.
Punjabis are more sophisticated especially their educated class and this you can see in thier policies making and decision making. For example how they use beaurocracy to rule over the country then how do they use ISI and ISI use their literature and resources. For example ISI is doing two, three opposite things but at the same time they are able to justify their actions and have taken the whole nation in confidence.
We pashtuns are straightforward, we call it munafiqat, chalaki, ayyari, darogh, makkari and double game. And thus this reflects when you go to have a business deal with them or any other deal. Lahoris, gujratis are famous for these traits.
now we have to understand it whether it is style of the game or it is a double game.

I think educated pashtuns are much more sophesticated... i dont know how many pashtun educated have you dealt with... but i know many educated pashtuns.. and i do not know of any other ethnic group to compare to them . honestly not kidding.. they are good looking,, have better command over language (except urdu) and have confidence.. other ethnic groups in pakistan does not have that ,, and this is the truth. ,. How many sophesticated Memons or punjabies do you know? lool.. you can take a paindo out of pind, but you can never take a pind out of paindo..

See.. look at the problem.. problem is nothing but education and peace.. give them that and you have made gods..

Also define "Shrewd" if you can lie, cheat and be dishonest you are automatically shrewed.. Why and how is that a quality.. if that is what is needed for development pashtuns shoudnt want that.. But truth is that is not needed..

For sucess, all you need is Honesty and Hardwork.. look at paksitan from international perspective.. it is mostly punjabi country so lets call it "shrewed". what has that earned it??
They are scared of other nation and call their cowardace their strategy.
Most other ethnic groups are not happy.
They themselve (Punjab province) is not much different than other provinces (Look at GNI of all the provinces of Pakistan).
Internationally, pakistan is a poor country..

THe better strategy would have been.. giving everyone their rights.. develop mining in baluchistan and KPK, Develop port in Baluchistan.. Develop power and defense sector in KPK and be honest and hardworking.. that would creat confidence by other ethnicities in punjabies and no one would talk about seceding,, and this would lead to a more united, developed and braver country..


Finnally, please do not confuse dishonesty with smartness... it can earn (dishonesty) you advatge in a short run,,, but it will always backfire in the long run..

Also i think pashtuns are better business man.. pashtuns have whole markets in lahore, faisalabad, karachi and other cities of pakistan.. no other ethnic group can claim that.. also most of the product that comes to pakistan from china is actually imported by pashtuns..

[Since1947]

Oh my...... People are SO obsessed with Punjabis, it kinda gets boring you know.

[Tiger Khan]

Oh my...... People are SO obsessed with Punjabis, it kinda gets boring you know.

true... obsessed.. or the rest of the ethnic groups of pakistan just despise them.. take your pick..

[Since1947]

true... obsessed.. or the rest of the ethnic groups of pakistan just despise them.. take your pick..

I could care less if someone despises us or doesn't, hatred is blind anyway.... Seems like Punjabi bashing is ya'll all-time favourite passtime. Talk about educated people...... LOL.
Whoever says something positive about Pakistan or Punjabis is deemed to be called a Pakistani and cursed till death (even if it's valid), whereas if someone says something negative about Punjabis or Pakistan he will receive all praise even if it's nothing but utter bull****. :')

And, its not that the Pashtuns in Afghanistan are loved by all the other afghan ethnicities. Guess we have much more in common than we think or wanna admit innit.