Tribal Elders Oppose Jirga and BSA

[randolph85]

Tribal Elders Oppose Jirga and BSA

A gathering of tribal elders and religious scholars from around the country was organized in Kabul on Sunday in which opposition was voiced against both the Loya Jirga organized by President Hamid Karzai and the Washington-Kabul security pact it is expected to decide on.

There have been many commentators over the past couple months offering criticism or support for Karzai's decision to leave the fate of the Bilateral Security Agreement (BSA), which would outline the U.S.' involvement in Afghan national security after the troop withdraw at the end of 2014, up to a Loya Jirga. Most have generally agreed that the BSA is advantageous for Afghanistan.

Fearing the Loya Jirga could prove a blunt instrument for a delicate decision, the biggest critics of Karzai's Jirga have often been the biggest supporters of the BSA.

However, on Sunday, tribal elders and religious scholars took a different stance. They opposed the Loya Jirga because they did not think the security pact should even be considered.

"What is in this agreement? Only one thing: that the United States will remain in Afghanistan, the CIA will continue its operations, other countries will be attacked from the soil of Afghanistan and the U.S. will have control over the region," said Wahdat Millie Party spokesman Waheed Muzhda who attended the gathering on Sunday. "What is in it for Afghanistan? Afghans will achieve nothing but the hostility of countries in the region and war in Afghanistan will continue."

According to those who gathered in Kabul for their very own Jirga, ironically, the continued presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan, which is expected to be a provision of the BSA, would only perpetuate conflict in Afghanistan. They said the complete absence of foreign soldiers would open up opportunities to reconcile with the Taliban and usher in peace and stability after twelve years of war.

The most controversial item of the BSA in discussion to this point was the matter of criminal jurisdiction over U.S. troops stationed in Afghanistan post-2014. Many Afghans have reservations about granting immunity to U.S. troops from prosecution in Afghan courts, especially considering the numerous examples of crimes committed by coalition soldiers and the few that saw no follow-up.

But the tribal elders and religious scholars on Sunday were unqualified in their objection to the BSA, setting their criticisms against the entire agreement and not just a single provision. And they resented Karzai for trying to shift responsibility for the agreement on to the people of Afghanistan by convening the Jirga.

"Karzai wants the innocent people of Afghanistan to sign the agreement, and hand over their honor and pride to the United States," said religious scholar Ahmad Farid.

[Tiger Khan]

Tribal Elders Oppose Jirga and BSA

A gathering of tribal elders and religious scholars from around the country was organized in Kabul on Sunday in which opposition was voiced against both the Loya Jirga organized by President Hamid Karzai and the Washington-Kabul security pact it is expected to decide on.

There have been many commentators over the past couple months offering criticism or support for Karzai's decision to leave the fate of the Bilateral Security Agreement (BSA), which would outline the U.S.' involvement in Afghan national security after the troop withdraw at the end of 2014, up to a Loya Jirga. Most have generally agreed that the BSA is advantageous for Afghanistan.

Fearing the Loya Jirga could prove a blunt instrument for a delicate decision, the biggest critics of Karzai's Jirga have often been the biggest supporters of the BSA.

However, on Sunday, tribal elders and religious scholars took a different stance. They opposed the Loya Jirga because they did not think the security pact should even be considered.

"What is in this agreement? Only one thing: that the United States will remain in Afghanistan, the CIA will continue its operations, other countries will be attacked from the soil of Afghanistan and the U.S. will have control over the region," said Wahdat Millie Party spokesman Waheed Muzhda who attended the gathering on Sunday. "What is in it for Afghanistan? Afghans will achieve nothing but the hostility of countries in the region and war in Afghanistan will continue."

According to those who gathered in Kabul for their very own Jirga, ironically, the continued presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan, which is expected to be a provision of the BSA, would only perpetuate conflict in Afghanistan. They said the complete absence of foreign soldiers would open up opportunities to reconcile with the Taliban and usher in peace and stability after twelve years of war.

The most controversial item of the BSA in discussion to this point was the matter of criminal jurisdiction over U.S. troops stationed in Afghanistan post-2014. Many Afghans have reservations about granting immunity to U.S. troops from prosecution in Afghan courts, especially considering the numerous examples of crimes committed by coalition soldiers and the few that saw no follow-up.

But the tribal elders and religious scholars on Sunday were unqualified in their objection to the BSA, setting their criticisms against the entire agreement and not just a single provision. And they resented Karzai for trying to shift responsibility for the agreement on to the people of Afghanistan by convening the Jirga.

"Karzai wants the innocent people of Afghanistan to sign the agreement, and hand over their honor and pride to the United States," said religious scholar Ahmad Farid.

Some people are just fundamentalists..

[ډګروال]

so this means the tribal elders have accepted the bases but wont accept them being above the Afghan law?

i think this is all politics , karzai and co want to make it seem as if the military bases have already got green light from the Afghan nation.

Also these chosen people are hand picked by kharzai and if any of them vote yes it will be acceptable to him and if someone votes no ,they wont care about that vote and wont even count it.

thats how the last fake jirga was conducted.

[DSM0305]

what is your opinion regarding US bases?

[Kushan Prince]

If Karzai said no to the bases, then that would tarnish Afghanistan's relationship with USA. It's not like he said yes out of his own will he had no choice but to say yes. The tribal leaders are just following Karzai in terms of action.

[randolph85]

so this means the tribal elders have accepted the bases but wont accept them being above the Afghan law?

i think this is all politics , karzai and co want to make it seem as if the military bases have already got green light from the Afghan nation.

Also these chosen people are hand picked by kharzai and if any of them vote yes it will be acceptable to him and if someone votes no ,they wont care about that vote and wont even count it.

thats how the last fake jirga was conducted.

karzai just wants history to remember him as a good leader so he will shift the blame and shame of foreign bases and occupation to the loya jirga and say that this was the decision of the people and he will respect the peoples decision.

no doubt the jirga will be comprised of mostly slaves, with some independent minded people who are invited in small numbers that will reject the agreement just so it looks fair. others who reject the agreement will not even show even if invited because they know their opinions don't matter in the big picture.

i am sure the agreement is already signed, they are just waiting for this drama show to play out so they can publicly announce it. its like the first jirga when karzai accepted the presidency when officially the jirga hadn't even decided on it yet publicly.

[Bost Bastan News]

Those who are against the agreement are to 95% Salafis and Wahabits close to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. In Kabul 3000 representatives of Hizb, Itehad (not depending on party) and Taliban joined hands against this agreement. These people want civil war nothing else. Without US we will have the era of topakian. It has nothing to do with treachery. In a country like Afghanistan with deep ethnic devision, no pluralistic orineted government what would be your solution? Joining those insurgents and giving again the cake (Afghanistan) to Pakistan and Arabs? These people don´t represent Afghan people or Afghanistan. taliban also claim they represent all Afghanistan which is a lie

[randolph85]

Those who are against the agreement are to 95% Salafis and Wahabits close to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. In Kabul 3000 representatives of Hizb, Itehad (not depending on party) and Taliban joined hands against this agreement. These people want civil war nothing else. Without US we will have the era of topakian. It has nothing to do with treachery. In a country like Afghanistan with deep ethnic devision, no pluralistic orineted government what would be your solution? Joining those insurgents and giving again the cake (Afghanistan) to Pakistan and Arabs? These people don´t represent Afghan people or Afghanistan. taliban also claim they represent all Afghanistan which is a lie

people who oppose the occupation of the country are salafis? its funny that the "people" who support the occupation are so called nationalists that have no faith in their own people to not kill each other and think they need kaffir babysitters. the civil war was almost over in the late 2000's with one side nearly defeating the other until the US invaded and kick started the civil war. you talk about giving pieces of cake to pakistan and saudi arabia without amrikka support but the ones who support the occupation have not only given the cake to the west, but also their mother and children.

if the taliban were by extention the policy of arabs and pakis, then what is the kharzai regime with hundreds of thousands of foreigners on afghan soil today? imagine if mullah omar walked around with isi operatives and his personal bodyguards were punjabis, now if karzai does the same thing with the cia and white trash american bodyguards its ok in the eyes of you sell outs.

show me an afghan "leader" who supports the occupation and i'll show you a piece of **** with a large home he didn't work a day in his life for.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Those who are against the agreement are to 95% Salafis and Wahabits close to Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. In Kabul 3000 representatives of Hizb, Itehad (not depending on party) and Taliban joined hands against this agreement. These people want civil war nothing else. Without US we will have the era of topakian. It has nothing to do with treachery. In a country like Afghanistan with deep ethnic devision, no pluralistic orineted government what would be your solution? Joining those insurgents and giving again the cake (Afghanistan) to Pakistan and Arabs? These people don´t represent Afghan people or Afghanistan. taliban also claim they represent all Afghanistan which is a lie

Absolute nonsense. The sticking point is the immunity clause. Maybe you would like to bend over and stretch your persianized-hazaracentric rectal cavity wide open for the insertion of a white man's phallus and then call the rape consensual - not so real men.

Let me guess, the typical excuse will be something related to how Pakistan was inserting something into something else and so why not the US. How about you quit the horse shi-t.

Lets give a practical example of what immunity will mean.

Here is a case that happened recently:
IPS – Afghan Families Want Accountability, Not Apologies | Inter Press Service

This was a previously government affiliated family.

Here is what the father is now saying:
In front of all the participants they said they made an error,” said Khan. Abdulzai said “the Americans offered their apology in front of the victims’ families and Nangarhar’s authorities.”

All the victims’ relatives this IPS correspondent met said they had received some offers from the “foreign envoys” as a form of ‘compensation’.

“The Americans said they would help us, now and in future,” said Agha. “They did not offer any amount of money, but when we left the palace we found some cars with sacks of food. We all agreed to refuse that offer: we are poor but we do not sell our own blood.”

“Our request is clear,” Khan told IPS. “Give us the pilots of the two helicopters. We will handle them according to our culture, to the Holy Quran and to what the Hadith prescribes. Then, we will give them back to the U.S., saying ‘we are very sorry’, as they did with us.”

“Over the past years the Americans have killed many innocent people, also children and women,” said Agha. “They just say ‘we apologise’. It’s time for them to be accountable for their wrong actions


Are these salafis you piece of garbage? Are these Saudis in disguise?

What is your answer to them regarding immunity for these crimes?, which is what Hamida Karzai Bibi is going to pawn over to them.

Quit your horse sh-it propaganda or take that dung and put it back in that flatulating anus you call a mouth.

Otherwise, answer clearly how such crimes will be dealt with when Hamida Bibi signs away Afghanistan's autonomy.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

[MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION] If I had no choice, I'd prefer an American puppet to a Punjabi puppet.

[randolph85]

[MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION] If I had no choice, I'd prefer an American puppet to a Punjabi puppet.

who is the punjabi puppet? the taliban? i am no fan of them but lets look at the facts. in what way were they puppets and how or when were their authority usurped by pakistan?

[Khilji]

if the tribal elders dont support the usa they dieing with them half of the villagers if they dont support the pakistani/us american created terrorists they dieing too

[Khilji]

[MENTION=1902]randolph85[/MENTION] If I had no choice, I'd prefer an American puppet to a Punjabi puppet.

thats what a ex puppet of the soviets would say.
but dont forget you would be in the same boot with your american puppet like the punjabi.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

who is the punjabi puppet? the taliban? i am no fan of them but lets look at the facts. in what way were they puppets and how or when were their authority usurped by pakistan?

The Taliban's salaries came from Islamabad's federal budget. Karzai's government is funded by the US.

The Taliban's foreign affairs were controlled by Islamabad. Karzai's foreign affairs are under US control.

Islamabad would send FC to fight alongside the Taliban. The US sends its air force to aid the ANA.

The Taliban were aided and mentored by Pakistani majors. The US mentors Karzai's army.

The Taliban never attacked Pakistan or its interests. Karzai cannot work against American interests.

The Taliban (and their allies) sought refuge in Pakistan after 2001. Karzai and his cronies will fly to the US after their fall.

[Bost Bastan News]

people who oppose the occupation of the country are salafis? its funny that the "people" who support the occupation are so called nationalists that have no faith in their own people to not kill each other and think they need kaffir babysitters. the civil war was almost over in the late 2000's with one side nearly defeating the other until the US invaded and kick started the civil war. you talk about giving pieces of cake to pakistan and saudi arabia without amrikka support but the ones who support the occupation have not only given the cake to the west, but also their mother and children.

if the taliban were by extention the policy of arabs and pakis, then what is the kharzai regime with hundreds of thousands of foreigners on afghan soil today? imagine if mullah omar walked around with isi operatives and his personal bodyguards were punjabis, now if karzai does the same thing with the cia and white trash american bodyguards its ok in the eyes of you sell outs.

show me an afghan "leader" who supports the occupation and i'll show you a piece of **** with a large home he didn't work a day in his life for.

The Saudis and Pakis are worse than Americans. They implanted the ethnic devide in Afghanistan. They have never done anything good for Afghanistan. Have you ever have seen any Saudi building our streets, schools, universities or hospitals? Only one time Saudis supported us financially, ...building a Saudi-controlled mosque within Kabul. Saudi presence and Paki presence aka Taliban means being slaves for ever. They use Islam and destroy us. America is much better than Saudi and paki colonialism or chinese invasion. We need to find a good place for our own in the modern global dynamics of neo-colonialism. Americans aren´t such a great danger for Afghanistan as Pakistan and Arabs are. The Americans don´t destroy our culture or language. Arabs want to impose on us Arabc and turn our country to a new Arab state and Pakistan want us as a fifth province with Urdu as national and official language and after some decades with growing population they will push millions of Muhajers to our country. ''American slavery'' is much better than being a slave of our real enemies. We need hospitals and medicines to heal our wounds and deseases, not Qoran verses. Qoran verses we need in the moesques, not in the civil life. Qoran doesn´t feed our families our give our kids credibility by studying and becoming a doctor of Qoran ... we need professors, craft-men, teachers, doctors. We have enbough Mullahs and enough Arabs and Pakis in Afghanistan. Do you know that 90% of all beggers in Kabul and all Afghanistan are neither Pashtuns nor Tajiks but Pakistanis and other ethnicties who never lived in that country before???