Redrawing new provinces in Pakistan

[Pukhtoon]

Well.. here are my two cents... PAshtuns in paskistan are progresively opening up to the idea of independence.. thanks to pakistani (Punjabified policies).. that said.. i being pakistani pashtun.. dont have as many issues with punjabies as Afghani Pashtuns.. also all my life my best friedns have been punjabies... we grew up togather.. and they even (couple of closest ones) are fluent in pashto.. However, i myself belive that Pakistan need to chnage policies (its a federation) towards all the ethnic groups (Policies petraining to official languages, support of indegenous cultures, equal economic opportunity and general justice for all), other wise independence is not a bad option.. Also i being pakistani can not get along with Farsibans,, i think they are traitors,, and back stabbers.. and Punjabies are mcuh, much better people.. compared to Tajiks.. I also believe that balochs should be given rights.. i want samethings for balouchs .. which is similar to pashtuns.. also i believe pashtuns on either side of the border are similar and no one is better than thhe other..
Also i think yoy are pakistani pashtun..

Manana. And no, I'm 100% from the Afghan side.

As to the Farsibaan thing, honestly, I have encountered in large numbers both Farsibaans and Punjabis/Desi people and Farsibaans are much closer in culture then Punjabis to Pashtoons. However, my experience is biased as is yours because of who we grew up with. My personal experience has been Punjabis are about 100% the opposite of the historical Pashtoon culture, especially with things like nang, namoos, etc. These things simply do not matter much to them in practice or spirit. They are also not a fighting people and never known for being very klak so this also weighs in on my opinion of the two cultures.

Things like melmastiya, generousity, nanawatay, I've seen it, not as extreme as Pashtoons, but nonetheless seen it with other Farsibaan ethnic groups but laughable to expect these things in even close to the same manner amongst Punjabis.

Also, as an aside, I have NEVER heard some of the things Punjabis say about Pashtoons from any Farsibaan, ever, except for a few times on a message board here and there. The tenor and feel of the relationship is much different between Pashtoons and Punjabis and Pashtoons and Farsibaans - the latter being more positive.

[Tiger Khan]

well either the pakistani pathans are lying to us or the afghanis thats means.


you got your numbers wrong



there are 30 million pathans in pakistan.
and there is 12 million pathans in afghanistan.


idk where you have been but somebody have been lying the **** out of themselves to you.
get a genuine Pathan from pakistan with no family in afghanistan and they will give you a field day. don't bring an afghan refugee living in pakistan.
but a real pakistani pathan.
tiger khan seems like off spring of afghan refugees to me.

haha.. you aint smart kid.. if thats what you are thinking.. if you see me in real life you will think of me as the most sophesticated pakistani.. you however sound like some chora.. so if you dont get the answer that you want you get all pissed off.. and try to throw tantrums like a little kid.. while knowing that you can not show that attitude to most of the pathans on the street becuase you know they would probably go medieval on you...

[punjabi1990]

haha.. you aint smart kid.. if thats what you are thinking.. if you see me in real life you will think of me as the most sophesticated pakistani.. you however sound like some chora.. so if you dont get the answer that you want you get all pissed off.. and try to throw tantrums like a little kid.. while knowing that you can not show that attitude to most of the pathans on the street becuase you know they would probably go medieval on you...

jesus christ dude you need to get over your self,
i grew up beating up my pathan friends, you people aren't some super people like you claim. punjabis will beat a pathan in a fight any day.

[Pukhtoon]

well either the pakistani pathans are lying to us or the afghanis thats means.


you got your numbers wrong



there are 30 million pathans in pakistan.
and there is 12 million pathans in afghanistan.


idk where you have been but somebody have been lying the **** out of themselves to you.
get a genuine Pathan from pakistan with no family in afghanistan and they will give you a field day. don't bring an afghan refugee living in pakistan.
but a real pakistani pathan.
tiger khan seems like off spring of afghan refugees to me.

Just so you know, the numbers from Wikipedia, which you referred to, are completely inaccurate and grossly off to diminish the Pashtoon population in both countries.

I could say the same, somebody has been lying to you as well, maybe because if they are around a Punjabi like yourself, and your friendly, they won't tell you they hate your culture and don't respect you. Also, most of the people your friendly with probably don't have any disgust for Punjabis or else you wouldn't be friends, including any family members who have married Punjabis.

If you actually peruse the board, you'll see how most Pakistani Pashtoons feel about Punjabis. I know several genuine Pakistani Pashtoons, they proudly call themselves Afghan, the synonym for Pashtoon, and would shoot you if you called them Punjabi. This is only speaking about Swat, close to Peshawr which is not even considered as tribal as other areas. Quetta Pashtoons are generally the same and really only Peshawar I've seen the love for Punjab. There is a big disconnect somewhere, the more people who post from real accounts, you'll see the feeling is more in line with my belief rather then yours. Your perception is skewed because you probably acquant yourself with Punjabized Pashtoons, who real Pashtoons call "Pathans" as a pejorative, or insult.

[Tiger Khan]

Manana. And no, I'm 100% from the Afghan side.

As to the Farsibaan thing, honestly, I have encountered in large numbers both Farsibaans and Punjabis/Desi people and Farsibaans are much closer in culture then Punjabis to Pashtoons. However, my experience is biased as is yours because of who we grew up with. My personal experience has been Punjabis are about 100% the opposite of the historical Pashtoon culture, especially with things like nang, namoos, etc. These things simply do not matter much to them in practice or spirit. They are also not a fighting people and never known for being very klak so this also weighs in on my opinion of the two cultures.

Things like melmastiya, generousity, nanawatay, I've seen it, not as extreme as Pashtoons, but nonetheless seen it with other Farsibaan ethnic groups but laughable to expect these things in even close to the same manner amongst Punjabis.

Also, as an aside, I have NEVER heard some of the things Punjabis say about Pashtoons from any Farsibaan, ever, except for a few times on a message board here and there. The tenor and feel of the relationship is much different between Pashtoons and Punjabis and Pashtoons and Farsibaans - the latter being more positive.

may be you are right.. we have similar food and dress forsure (farsiwans).. but farsivbs are extremely liberal, and they always side with outsiders... i have come across many good punjabies.. if i see some anti pahtun.. i sort them out there and then,.. and they get the idea .. also see you being Pashtun (afghanistani will( be more comforatbel with farsibans,, we being pashtuns (Pakistani) are more comfortable with punjabies..

[Pukhtoon]

lol.. temper.. temper.. well i think i answered that in my last post.. we pakistani pashtuns associate with afghani pashtuns..and see the thing with pakistan is that there are not many sindhies in india (so no connection with india), nor many baluchs in Iran or afghanistan.. punjabies that are in india are sikhs..so paksitani punjabies can not have a good connection with them either.. pashtuns however, have a sizable population in afghanistan.. so we are comfortable with them.. that said, i do believe pashtuns (Afghanistani) are a little ungrateful to pakistan.. and as far as Aid money is concerned.. Pakistan never planned that they will royaly screw afghanistan and when the Aid money comes in they will party with it (I wish they were such an amaizing planners), however, subsequent to afghan wars the money did come and they did "Party" with it. But you have to realize that both (infact almost all) the "muslim" countires are corrupt.. the politicians on both sides would take the money when the opportunitues arise. I have no doubt in my mind that had afghanistan been in pakistan shoes they would have done the samething.. we are just corrupt people.. and no one tell me that corruption is not happeninig in afghanistan (i m sure it is happening in pakistan)..

Plus,, i am a pure pashtun.. but i do call myself pathann sometime.. (i dont see a problem with that)..

Manana wrora. Te aw ze pohagum chee di Punjabiyaan singa dee. Puh internet har chawnah ghat ghat shayaan wayee, especially Punjabyaan lol Alhamdillah shukur chee sta ghundi Pukhtoono puh Pakistani dee.

[Tiger Khan]

jesus christ dude you need to get over your self,
i grew up beating up my pathan friends, you people aren't some super people like you claim. punjabis will beat a pathan in a fight any day.

ahan.. why m i waisting my time with you?... how old are you?.. grew up beating up his "friends".. are you young or are you just dumb?

[Tiger Khan]

Manana wrora. Te aw ze pohagum chee di Punjabiyaan singa dee. Puh internet har chawnah ghat ghat shayaan wayee, especially Punjabyaan lol Alhamdillah shukur chee sta ghundi Pukhtoono puh Pakistani dee.

manana

[punjabi1990]

Just so you know, the numbers from Wikipedia, which you referred to, are completely inaccurate and grossly off to diminish the Pashtoon population in both countries.

I could say the same, somebody has been lying to you as well, maybe because if they are around a Punjabi like yourself, and your friendly, they won't tell you they hate your culture and don't respect you. Also, most of the people your friendly with probably don't have any disgust for Punjabis or else you wouldn't be friends, including any family members who have married Punjabis.

If you actually peruse the board, you'll see how most Pakistani Pashtoons feel about Punjabis. I know several genuine Pakistani Pashtoons, they proudly call themselves Afghan, the synonym for Pashtoon, and would shoot you if you called them Punjabi. This is only speaking about Swat, close to Peshawr which is not even considered as tribal as other areas. Quetta Pashtoons are generally the same and really only Peshawar I've seen the love for Punjab. There is a big disconnect somewhere, the more people who post from real accounts, you'll see the feeling is more in line with my belief rather then yours. Your perception is skewed because you probably acquant yourself with Punjabized Pashtoons, who real Pashtoons call "Pathans" as a pejorative, or insult.

so your saying as pathans become more civilised they become pakistanis? and while they still hang out in tribes they are afghans?

[Tiger Khan]

jesus christ dude you need to get over your self,
i grew up beating up my pathan friends, you people aren't some super people like you claim. punjabis will beat a pathan in a fight any day.

Also you dont know anything about Pashtuns..or legal system of paksitan or history of pakistan and afghanistan for that matter.. you need to learn about that (so do some reading) and some anger management before you try discussing things with the big boys..

[Pukhtoon]

may be you are right.. we have similar food and dress forsure (farsiwans).. but farsivbs are extremely liberal, and they always side with outsiders... i have come across many good punjabies.. if i see some anti pahtun.. i sort them out there and then,.. and they get the idea .. also see you being Pashtun (afghanistani will( be more comforatbel with farsibans,, we being pashtuns (Pakistani) are more comfortable with punjabies..

You know the thing is, if you go outside Kabul, and even in Kabul, but outside of Kabul they are extremely conservative, religiously speaking, not much different then Pashtoons.

During our civil war has been the first time where we have had an ethnic conflict as between Farsibaan and Pashtoons, any animosity was never that palpable before.

And even now, no Farsibaans ever talks about cessation or anything like that.

The funny thing is that, just like the Punjabyaan want their Pashtoons for themselves, the Farsibaans want the same. The Farsibaans will say our Pashtoons in Afghanistans are ours, you are Pashtoon Alhamdillah, you are real Pashtoon but we want you but for ourselves, don't consider the Pakistani Pashtoon your brothers, they aren't Pashtoon like you, their Punjabyaan or mixed with Punjabyaan. And then in Pakistan, the Punjabis tell the Pakistani Pashtoons be ours only, don't consider the Afghan Pashtoons your brothers, their Farsibaan. It just always seems the Pashtoons are in the middle being manipulated one way or another.

I am all for Islam, but when people use the name of Islam and don't practice it and instead use it to steal resources, make Pashtoons kill each other, use Pashtoons to kill others for their own personal interest, etc., it just makes me feel we'd be in a better position if we all just lived together and went back to our previous borders. If you think about it, truly Pashtoons are of the same blood, history, culture, everything, and then third parties introduce themselves and manipulate in a way that makes us choose a preday (stranger) over our own blood, and not only that, teaches us to hate them, is just over the line in terms of treachery and being unIslamic. If people truly practiced Islam we wouldn't have any issues but since they don't, I think it just makes more sense to be closer with those people who share the same values as us.

I go back to Loiy Afghanistan all the time not just becuase I am from Afghanistan, but more so just because it really is our shared past, Pashtoons from both sides, and we already have Pashtooon history taught in school, Pashto language as a mandatory subject, national anthem in Pashto, and Pashto culture so ingrained in the society, including with non-Pashtoons, it seems like an easier fit.

Its also partly what I don't get with some Pakistani Pashtoons who prefer the current state of affairs - if Punjab loved Pashtoons so much, why do they have to fight so much just to have a province named after them, or not allowed to teach in Pashto, get blamed and bombed for everything, and even have their culture mocked, often times openly? Insha'Allah a good solution will come out eventually to the betterment of all parties and ethnicities.

[Pukhtoon]

so your saying as pathans become more civilised they become pakistanis? and while they still hang out in tribes they are afghans?

As Pashtoons hang around Punjabis, they become like Punjabis more, i.e., lose their culture.

If civilized means sust, meek, no longer martial, having lost their sense of nang, ghairat, namoos, and if those adjectives describe Punjabis, and the antithesis or opposite of those adjectives describe Pashtoons, then yes, civilized Pashtoons are Pakis and tribal Pashtoons are Afghan.

[gadoonwal]

tiger khana,The afghan pashtuns like ,,pukhtoon,, care more for farsibans master then their fellow pashtuns.They are fully brainwashed.For over 250 years farsibans like zahir khan,dawood,abdurahman,dost mamad etc ruled afghanistan.These rulers promote farsi language and culture.The parsi speaking pashtuns were recognized and respected.
There are millions of pashtuns mixed up with farsibans.
The duranis are lost in this case.They can,nt speak a word of pashtu and feel more comfotable with farsibans then pure pashtuns.
The farsibans called them,,,dumdar,,,and spagan.
Many also called them daalkhor even.
This is the reality.Here on pashtunforums i challenge how many of them speak pashtu at home.
The farsibans told them to call pashtunkhwa pashtuns pakistanis cus persains are scared of pashtun unity.
If pashtuns of both side united these half breed pashtuns and persain will become a small minority.Pashtu will become the dominant language.
But so far the persain gang will use pashtun against pashtuns.
I met an afghan pashtun from ,,kama,,who lived most of his life in buner pashtunkhwa.He could,nt speak parsi.When he went to kabul for some work and try to speak to the officail in pashtu.The man replied him speak in parsi or go away.He speak nangarhari pashtu was called by many in afghanistan pakistani.
A farsi speaking quetawal hazara is more accepted as an afghan in afghanistan then pashu speaking pashtunkhwa pashtun.



Forget about this confusion and mixture.

The only way ahead for pashtunkhwa pashtuns to break the backbone of pakistan by creating azad pashtunkhwa watan or pashtunistan you call it.
We share nothing with farsibans and punjabis.
One group/punjo occupied our land the other iranizad/persio taken our language and culture from us.
Farsibans have no respect for pashtu and pashtun culture.
They even call ahmad shah abdali a servant and bacha of nadir afshar.

Lets the pashtu speaking pashtuns with no mix blood come out and creat its own identity on the wolrd map.
Death to pakistan and farsibans.Death to pashtu hater.death to urdu and parsio.

I can see the future state of pashtunistan on the world map.
The independence of azad baluchistan is the ,,zeray,,for azad pashtunkhwa watan with no persio and urdu virus.

[gadoonwal]

persio and pakio virus the most dangerous to pashtuns.
We are like sandwich between tow evils.
Lets not follow the evils.be brave to stand for your own identity and freedom.
Respect for holy pashtu khushal khan,emal khan,darya khan,mir wais khan and ahmad shah.
Send the pupets and nawkaran back to their masters.
Must not follow persain and punjo chaplosaan.

chi wanakhlay bachahi da bal ikhtyaar ki
aw pa khpal ikhtyaar ki wagay gada kha ye,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ahmad gadoonwal,poet

[ComradePashtun]

Gadoonwala, toor-konay daalkhor Pathan chup sa. :-)

You talk out of your dark aas.