Pakhtunkhwa province's Hazara region may secede

[Bengal_Tiger]

If I understand correctly from the reports.


1. This resolution does not in itself create a "Hazara" province but merely calls for a commission to be formed to discuss it.


2. It also says that the creation of a "Hazara" province is conditional on other such provinces being created through out the whole of the federation.

In other words Pashtuns should not be the only people who should have parts of their province taken away from them.

[jankhan]

There is a huge support for Pakistani cricket team in Bangladesh even by the Bangladeshi people.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

F**king funny

The hazara nationalist are calling for a merger of peshawar into Hazara province,Lol

Well i am in support for converting Division's into provinces through Pakistan.

If i am not wrong,A total of 28-30Divisions exist in Pakistan.

[Khostai]

Its just a creation of province not a new country. They all still going to be ruled by Punjab, so what difference will it make if that regions will stay with KPK or get a seperate name, its still in Pakistan and it will be Pakistany territory.... Devision in to smaller provinces can be a good thing. maybe you can get better money and support from the central goverment or something. At least that was the reason why Paktia, was seperated in Paktika, Paktia and Khost....

But if the case was that KPK was trying to become independent country or merge with Afghanistan, than I can understand that you don't want this, becuase it will be losing territory. But Paki Pashtuns don't want that, the majority are loyal to Punjab and want to stay as one country forever, so this wouldn't be a problem, especialy if the majority like some of you claim in that region are Pashtuns....

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

The problem is becasue half of hazara division is pashtun dominated and they don't want to get seperate from KPK.

First they should they merge fata with KPK.and Make Southern balochistan into Southern pakhtunkhwa.

Than they should form the abbasin division out of hazara division.

Mianwali should be again merged with Bannu and attock should be again merged with KPK

only than we will agree with hazara province(Only kpk,Half of mansehra and haripur)

[Bengal_Tiger]

Its just a creation of province not a new country. They all still going to be ruled by Punjab, so what difference will it make if that regions will stay with KPK or get a seperate name, its still in Pakistan and it will be Pakistany territory.... Devision in to smaller provinces can be a good thing. maybe you can get better money and support from the central goverment or something. At least that was the reason why Paktia, was seperated in Paktika, Paktia and Khost....

But if the case was that KPK was trying to become independent country or merge with Afghanistan, than I can understand that you don't want this, becuase it will be losing territory. But Paki Pashtuns don't want that, the majority are loyal to Punjab and want to stay as one country forever, so this wouldn't be a problem, especialy if the majority like some of you claim in that region are Pashtuns....

1. Pakistan is an unstable country suffering from civil war and massive terrorism.

It could break at any time.

It would be logical to assume that once it breaks the region now called Khyber Pakhtunkhwa will become an independent majority-Pashtun state.

The region called Punjab will be an independent state of Punjab.

These provincial boundaries will become "international boundaries" (in this scenario).

Historically Pashtun areas such as Attock and Mianwali would be part of Punjab forever (I can't see them being joined in to a new Pashtun state).


2. The "Hazaras" can break away if they want to but they should not be able to take majority-Pashtun areas of the region with them.

3. The Tarbela dams are in the "Hazara division" but lie in a majority-Pashtun area.

These dams are vital for Pashtun economic survival.

4. The ANP never practiced confrontational politics in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and one of the reasons why a programme of Pashtunization was never fully implemented was due to the non-Pashtun minority (e.g. Hazaras) within the region.


5. If the Hazara division breaks away then it could become the future international boundary between Pakhtunkha and Punjab.

The ethnically Pashtun, but linguistically Hindko (Punjabi) Hazaras of that region would forever lose their Pashtun identity and become Punjabis. They are already quite anti-Pashtun now e.g. go on the internet and see how some of them abuse Pashtuns e.g. "naswarkhor" etc.

However on a more fundamental level this boundary would also be a major cultural/civilizational boundary between the Iranic world and the Indic world.

The Iranic world consists of Iranians/Afghans/Kurds/Pashtuns.

The Indic world consists of India and eastern Pakistan (Punjab & Sindh).



Pakistan consists of many Pashtuns part of the wider Iranic world. I don't subscribe to any pan-Iranian ideology and have no great interest or affinity to Iran, but linguistically and racially Pashtuns are related to Iranians and vice versa, this does not imply Pashtuns have to be loyal to Iranians. Tribal Pashtuns will consider themselves superior to Iranians in the same way they consider themselves superior to everyone including Arabs. In Pashtun society "Syeds" (alleged descendants of the holy prophet solallAhu 'alaihi wa sallam) are looked down upon as inferior to tribal Pashtuns e.g. Mohmands, Afridis, Yusufzais etc.

Despite Pakistan consisting of both Pashtuns and Balochi who are Iranic, the country is culturally an Indic country e.g. the dominant language and culture being a Punjabi-Mohajir hybrid which Pashtuns and others are expected to assimilate to, to be "true Pakistanis".

"Pathans" (desified/Punjabized Pashtuns) even view themselves as part of the wider south Asian world e.g. India, Bangladesh. Many if not most "Pathans" care more about Bangladesh ("East Pakistan") then about Afghanistan. I mean this literally, I have read Pathans saying how they want "East Pakistan" back but do not care about Afghanistan.

Of course this is ridiculous (Bengalis have nothing in common with Pashtuns) but this shows the extent of brainwashing that Pakistanization has had on "Pathans".

With an independent Pashtun state, the future Pakhtunkwa will view itself less as part of the Indic/South Asian world but part of the central Asian world which it is geographically, civilizationally and linguistically part of.



Aside from the long-term ramifications of all this, in the here and now, taking majority-Pashtun areas of the "Hazara" division from their fellow Pashtuns would be a great injustice.

Pashtuns had to wait 60 years for a simple naming of their province.

Hazaras may have to wait less than 60 months for being given a whole new province.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Hazara again are 70% pashtun

*Haripur Population is more than 70% tanoli/taniwal and they are pashtun
*Abbottabad again 30% of Population is Jadoon/Gadoon and 20% or even more Tanoli
*Mansehra though punjabi origin hindko people,atleast 70-80%.

And sorry,Not only Mianwali and attock are pashtun region's but Islamabad aswell.

Pakistan is not going to break away.

[Bengal_Tiger]

Da Bannu Mazdigar
This message is hidden because Da Bannu Mazdigar is on your ignore list.

Da Lahore Mazdigar, stop posting in my threads. You are precisely one of the "Pathans" I was referring to who believes in some sort of imaginary connection between Bengalis and Pakistani Pashtuns. You even said you respect Bengalis more than Afghans.

1. Pashtuns of Pakistan are blood brothers of Pashtuns of Afghanistan and are the same people.

2. Afghanistan is the motherland of Pashtuns and is where Pashtuns came from.

You have:

i: Insulted my family.
ii: Harassed and insulted forum members here including @abbasinafghan whom you have threatened with violence.
iii: Spoken of Buddhism as the religion of Pakistan (I read people quoting you)
iv: Spoken approvingly of pornography, masturbation and other sexually deviant practises.


You have now gone on to a hardcore anti-Bengali Pakistani nationalist site which has Al-Qaeda supporters, Taliban supporters, Jamaati supporters and other thugs and started badmouthing me in your obsession with me:

http://defence.pk/threads/pakistan-should-be-named-peoples-republic-of-pakistan.305321/page-35

[MENTION=2]Admin Khan[/MENTION]

Da Lahore Mazdigar posts on this forum and then in a two-faced way goes to other forums and attacks a member here and links threads from here to a Pakistani nationalist hate-site.


For everyone else who reads that link and thinks that I am "IamBengali", and there are some fundamental differences between me and that poster e.g. I respect Hefazat-e-Islam whilst he doesn't.

If you read Bangladeshi forums, newspapers, comments sections on Youtube videos you will see the vast majority of Bangladeshis are anti-Jamaati. It is only on a Pakistani nationalist site such as defence.pk that they are allowed to thrive.

[Da Bannu Mazdigar]

Well i didnt wanted to expose you but you forced me.

On Pakistani forum he's pro Pakistani

On Afghanistan forum he's pro Afghanistan

Now enjoy my tamil friend

[Bengal_Tiger]

Da Bannu Mazdigar
This message is hidden because Da Bannu Mazdigar is on your ignore list.

Da Lahore Mazdigar,

1. Please stay away from this thread, my thread (I do not post in your threads).

2. Please apologize to Abbasinafghan for threatening him and abusing him.

I do not expect any apology from you because I will never get one as you are an anti-Bengali racist but please apologize to Abbasinafghan.

I will not respond to you anymore since you consistently derail threads and deteriorate them with low-quality, uncivilized personal attacks, sexual comments and other such shameful behaviour.

Bye.

[Khostai]

1. Pakistan is an unstable country suffering from civil war and massive terrorism.

It could break at any time.

It would be logical to assume that once it breaks the region now called Khyber Pakhtunkhwa will become an independent majority-Pashtun state.

The region called Punjab will be an independent state of Punjab.

These provincial boundaries will become "international boundaries" (in this scenario).

Historically Pashtun areas such as Attock and Mianwali would be part of Punjab forever (I can't see them being joined in to a new Pashtun state).


2. The "Hazaras" can break away if they want to but they should not be able to take majority-Pashtun areas of the region with them.

3. The Tarbela dams are in the "Hazara division" but lie in a majority-Pashtun area.

These dams are vital for Pashtun economic survival.

4. The ANP never practiced confrontational politics in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and one of the reasons why a programme of Pashtunization was never fully implemented was due to the non-Pashtun minority (e.g. Hazaras) within the region.


5. If the Hazara division breaks away then it could become the future international boundary between Pakhtunkha and Punjab.

The ethnically Pashtun, but linguistically Hindko (Punjabi) Hazaras of that region would forever lose their Pashtun identity and become Punjabis. They are already quite anti-Pashtun now e.g. go on the internet and see how some of them abuse Pashtuns e.g. "naswarkhor" etc.

However on a more fundamental level this boundary would also be a major cultural/civilizational boundary between the Iranic world and the Indic world.

The Iranic world consists of Iranians/Afghans/Kurds/Pashtuns.

The Indic world consists of India and eastern Pakistan (Punjab & Sindh).



Pakistan consists of many Pashtuns part of the wider Iranic world. I don't subscribe to any pan-Iranian ideology and have no great interest or affinity to Iran, but linguistically and racially Pashtuns are related to Iranians and vice versa, this does not imply Pashtuns have to be loyal to Iranians. Tribal Pashtuns will consider themselves superior to Iranians in the same way they consider themselves superior to everyone including Arabs. In Pashtun society "Syeds" (alleged descendants of the holy prophet solallAhu 'alaihi wa sallam) are looked down upon as inferior to tribal Pashtuns e.g. Mohmands, Afridis, Yusufzais etc.

Despite Pakistan consisting of both Pashtuns and Balochi who are Iranic, the country is culturally an Indic country e.g. the dominant language and culture being a Punjabi-Mohajir hybrid which Pashtuns and others are expected to assimilate to, to be "true Pakistanis".

"Pathans" (desified/Punjabized Pashtuns) even view themselves as part of the wider south Asian world e.g. India, Bangladesh. Many if not most "Pathans" care more about Bangladesh ("East Pakistan") then about Afghanistan. I mean this literally, I have read Pathans saying how they want "East Pakistan" back but do not care about Afghanistan.

Of course this is ridiculous (Bengalis have nothing in common with Pashtuns) but this shows the extent of brainwashing that Pakistanization has had on "Pathans".

With an independent Pashtun state, the future Pakhtunkwa will view itself less as part of the Indic/South Asian world but part of the central Asian world which it is geographically, civilizationally and linguistically part of.



Aside from the long-term ramifications of all this, in the here and now, taking majority-Pashtun areas of the "Hazara" division from their fellow Pashtuns would be a great injustice.

Pashtuns had to wait 60 years for a simple naming of their province.

Hazaras may have to wait less than 60 months for being given a whole new province.

I also would like to see Pakistan fall apart and the Punjab/Sindh side be anexed by India, so that the PAshtun and Baloch part can be free, but I still don't see it happening, Majority Pashtuns in PAkistan love Pakistan to death, there is only tiny minority of them wanting to be free, and that only is becuase they are poor and have no real income, but once they become rich they all start to worship Jinnah and PAkistan....-_-

So having big debate and discussion about formation of a province is just silly, and even if Pakistan falls apart, the majority in Hazara province will be still Pashun, so they still can join KPK, I don't think a tiny province with a majority comprised of PAshtun would declare themself a different country.....

[Bengal_Tiger]

I also would like to see Pakistan fall apart and the Punjab/Sindh side be anexed by India, so that the PAshtun and Baloch part can be free, but I still don't see it happening, Majority Pashtuns in PAkistan love Pakistan to death, there is only tiny minority of them wanting to be free, and that only is becuase they are poor and have no real income, but once they become rich they all start to worship Jinnah and PAkistan....-_-

So having big debate and discussion about formation of a province is just silly, and even if Pakistan falls apart, the majority in Hazara province will be still Pashun, so they still can join KPK, I don't think a tiny province with a majority comprised of PAshtun would declare themself a different country.....

Yes, the majority of Pashtuns in Pakistan are "pro-Pakistan". However there are two types of pro-Pakistani Pashtuns.

1. Those who want to have a good life and see a stable Pakistan because that's where they were born and have no great hatred of Afghans. Such people will turn against the Pakistani military as Bengalis did in 1971 if there is a major war against them.


2. Those who are infatuated with Pakistan, do not care about Pashto (even see it as backwards), won't be bothered or will be happy if their children grow up speaking Urdu, hate Afghanistan, will post internet comments threatening to nuke Afghanistan (astaghfirullah).

They could care less if Waziris or Mehsuds are being massacred as they are now, and would support the Pakistani army if it started a 1971 style war against Pashtuns.

No 1 are the vast majority.

[Smarty]

I agree with bengal_tiger about point 1. A big portion of pakistani pashtuns are pro-pakistan because they were born there, absorbed every kind of influences .They are born pashtuns but grow pakistanis in institutions and under influence of paki literature and media. As long as a pashtuns of paki preserve their langauge and culture, they can be freed from brainwashing and can be motivated and inspired to work for betterment and interests of pashtun nation than punjabis.....some times patients in deep coma do come out of it, we shouldnt lose hope.
As pointed out by bengal-tiger, there is also class of mir sadiq, mir jafar and abdullah ibn ubbay among us....they can not be redeemed as they are pillers of paki ideology e.g munafiqs of jumat e islami. Also the ones in paki military establishment.
The mommy daddy pathans who have given up on pashto and culture and marry with punjabis instead of pakhtuns (because they consider their own people backward), i dont consider them pashtuns. They are irrelvant.

[Bengal_Tiger]

I agree with bengal_tiger about point 1. A big portion of pakistani pashtuns are pro-pakistan because they were born there, absorbed every kind of influences .They are born pashtuns but grow pakistanis in institutions and under influence of paki literature and media. As long as a pashtuns of paki preserve their langauge and culture, they can be freed from brainwashing and can be motivated and inspired to work for betterment and interests of pashtun nation than punjabis.....some times patients in deep coma do come out of it, we shouldnt lose hope.
As pointed out by bengal-tiger, there is also class of mir sadiq, mir jafar and abdullah ibn ubbay among us....they can not be redeemed as they are pillers of paki ideology e.g munafiqs of jumat e islami. Also the ones in paki military establishment.
The mommy daddy pathans who have given up on pashto and culture and marry with punjabis instead of pakhtuns (because they consider their own people backward), i dont consider them pashtuns. They are irrelvant.

1. KPK Pashtuns are proud of three things: Islam, Pashto and Pakistan.

Around ten years ago they voted for the "Islamic" parties i.e. the MMA. Then a few years back for Pashtun nationalism i.e. the ANP and now recently for the Pakistani nationalist PTI.

2. Are they confused? Lack direction?

Far from it, they were simply open-minded and willing to give different parties that appeal to one of the three main pillars of their identity a chance, but it shows they are pragmatists and not ideological fundamentalists.

Pragmatists want to live in peace and prosperity.

3. They will never go to extremes in any of these three things. They have rejected the "Islam" (not true Islam) of the TTP the Pashtun nationalist ANP (supposedly very corrupt) and have rejected Pakistani nationalism to an extent (e.g. renaming their province Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa is against what die-hard Pakistani nationalists want e.g. the "journalist", Farzana Shah, who uses the internet handle "Jana" who was against the renaming though apparently a Pashtun from Pekhawar).

They do not want any of these things in excess but for them to flourish in harmony with each other.


However Pashtun nationalism now is much stronger in Pakhtunkhwa than it was ten years ago.

If the PTI mess up in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa - as they might well do - it will set Pakistani nationalism in the region back severely.


Anyway Pakistan's existence is very precarious, around a year or two ago the former prime minister, Gilani, spoke about possibly holding a referendum on Balochi independence. If that had happened, and it had been a real fair referendum, Balochis would have voted for independence. That would have been the death nail for Pakistan, as the next day the SDLA (Sindudesh Liberation Army) in Sindh would have started copying the BLA's successful tactics.

The Punjabis after losing Balochistan would have no appetite for another war in far more populous Sindh and would quickly give up on Sindh.

With Balochistan and Sindh gone and "Pakistan" a landlocked country, the Pashtuns would have separated.

This is what will happen if Balochistan gains freedom.


Balochi independence means the de facto end of Pakistan's over 60 years of existence.

Balochis will never give up their struggle for independence, in some ways Balochis are by far a much more stubborn, tenacious and honour-obsessed race than the Pashtuns.

They are a small nation of a few million in a land full of dry land and desert with some mountains who have fought a nuclear military of half a million and have none of the advantages Bengalis had in 1971, they will keep on fighting until they win.

[Toramana]

Actually, Bengal-Tiger, Pashtuns have passed through many of such conditions in history. Those who think they can assimilate Pashtuns completely and erase their identity are living in fools paradise (50 millions strong people). Even if they change their language (of which there is not even -infinite probability) , the consciousness of a distinct identity will remain.

This time, Pashtun nationalism will end at a consolidated Pashtun nation.