Fountainhead of Jihad The Haqqani Nexus, 1973-2012

[khushal]

......ZzOh you got me there Sherlock.

Once again you showed how ignorant and lawda you are ,

Here you go ,a Dummy guid how to know ISI Stooge I.e Haqani

Haqani belonged to Mullah Khalas Group but he was supplied directly trough ISI channe,l I.e he got his money and weaponry directly from ISI

When on order of ISI Haqani and his so called (Mujahideen ) plundered ,killed and looted Afghan and Afghanistan After Najib fall ,vengeful ISI wasn't done with Afghan and Afghanistan ,they conceived a dirty embryo witch they called Taliban ,they asked their most trusted stooge to join the new gang ,since Haqni was one of their most trusted they ordered him and he obliged without any hesitation so now (pay attention ghoul )the Mujahed Haqani on the order of his Master got reborn as Talib ,got it no!

this is a stawman fallacy. It does not prove your original claim. plus you stated in the other post you saw the Taliban looted with super human vision and now your changing your stance after being proved wrong.

[Catya Sher]

I returned to get the exact title of the book. Saw the
nice appellation "Lion of Khorasan" - like that !

[Sick of lion of panjshir....just found some old pictures
in an ancient box
of Massoud's brother Ahmad Zia back from those days -
can hardly believe how HE turned out.
I practically ripped up the negative and picture of him looking
down in FAKE HUMILITY. The truth comes out !

Contrast Ahmad Zia's dismal behavior with
Jelaluddin who stayed on course with his cause, never looked
for personal profit.

He actually IS humble, not faking it like so many others !

[Tiger Khan]

I think Ahmad Shah Massoud was a traitor, and the only reason he is so popular and revered is because west wants it that way. We are all waiting for the west to leave and taliban (Afghani taliban) to win, a fact that is written on the walls, and then we will see what happens.

[Catya Sher]

^ Will there be a role for Maulavi Jelaluddin do you think ?
Are people IN Afghanistan, not outside,
talking about that at all ?
Or maybe one of his sons or family would take power.

I am counting the days til the troops depart for personal reasons also !
These years of occupation of Afghanistan have been THE WORST
of my WHOLE LIFE, I think !
I think I can feel the burden on the country and the injustices and
have not felt happy or free this entire time, but like a prisoner of the devil.

I think I will "be freed" perhaps only when they leave.

It's so oppressive feeling this heavy weight of evil deeds and
cruel treatments.
I guess I am "suffering vicariously"....it's all I have been able to figure out !

I can't wait for ALL the lives of everyone concerned to get back on their normal track.

[Khorosani]

I am really astonished that many educated members here like Khushal, Barakzai, Shamlawar etc defend Taliban and want to push Pashtuns further in the caves of darkness, ignorance, obscurantism and barbarity.

Can you cite a single example that Taliban style system has been implemented anywhere in the world including the 58 Muslim countries? Was it implemented in the history of Muslims in the past 1400 years any where?How come you recommend, support and suggest it for Pashtuns and Afghans? Even in the Salafi Saudi, Kuwait and Qatar states you have monarchy not Taliban style government.

Citing a link that a Sikh was happy in Taliban era does not serve the purpose. They had to give those positive statements because of terror and fear of Taliban otherwise they would be cut into pieces and their throats slaughtered.

Do not you think that we have better alternatives like democracy, human rights, development, prosperity, secularism and modern education and keeping the religion limited to our personal and family life?

Actually in Canada, we've met hindus from Afg who said they miss the Taliban rule, and believe it or not said when AFG is free will return!

So basically, demon crazy, rights written up by humans and secularism, the ideology that has been here for 200 years in the Muslim world and has only made us worse is BETTER than the law of Allah? How can man give himself rights when he his judgment is subjective? We need an objective law to rule us and give us our equitable rights and that law is the law of Allah.

As for the 1400 years of Islam, yes there have been a movement that ruled over muslims in a like manner, that group was called the Murabitun who were actually much more powerful than the Taliban were but the Taliban are a mirror to them. In al maghrib, They consisted of doing dawah, Jihad, and studying knowledge, they went from one town to another town and they ended up ruling all the way to spain. Yusuf bin Tashfin is a famous murabit of that time.

[Badlun]

Actually in Canada, we've met hindus from Afg who said they miss the Taliban rule, and believe it or not said when AFG is free will return!

So basically, demon crazy, rights written up by humans and secularism, the ideology that has been here for 200 years in the Muslim world and has only made us worse is BETTER than the law of Allah? How can man give himself rights when he his judgment is subjective? We need an objective law to rule us and give us our equitable rights and that law is the law of Allah.

As for the 1400 years of Islam, yes there have been a movement that ruled over muslims in a like manner, that group was called the Murabitun who were actually much more powerful than the Taliban were but the Taliban are a mirror to them. In al maghrib, They consisted of doing dawah, Jihad, and studying knowledge, they went from one town to another town and they ended up ruling all the way to spain. Yusuf bin Tashfin is a famous murabit of that time.

What are you doing then in the countries run by demon crazy, rights written up by humans and secularism? Why you do not shift to some country like Somalia, Sudan, Saudi, Iran or the Islamic Republics of Afghanistan, Pakistan?

Some people like the Sikhs talk of Taliban era because of the artificial security they maintained because of their terror and these are individual comments which does not strengthen the validity of the rule of Taliban. Why Afghans celebrated their fall? Why any other country did not copy their system. They were only recognized by 3 countries out of more than 200 countries in the world.

Comparing Taliban with Murabitun will be unfair. The two periods are totally different. At the time of Murabitun there was no democracy, parliaments and modern economic systems. At that time both Muslims and Christian were inspired by religion still many authors connect the movemnt of Murabitun to primal cohesiveness and economic pursuits not purely a religious movement.


Ibn Khaldun used it as a basis for his theory of the rise and fall of civilizations. According to Ibn Khaldun, civilizations are held together by asabiyah (primal cohesiveness). The characteristics that foster cohesiveness are to be found in profusion among the nomads of the desert. The nomads, acting as agents of change, overcome older civilizations and bring in new blood as well as the virtues of the desert: integrity, virility, courage, steadfastness and commitment to the tribe. With time, they settle down, become city dwellers and succumb to the vices that characterize city life. Decay sets in, which in turn is overcome by a new wave of conquest from the desert. It was Ibn Khaldun’s view that in the 11th century, Muslim North Africa and Spain had exhausted their virility to the vices of a luxurious city life. The Murabitun revolution was the tribal wave from the desert that overcame the corruption of city life and replaced it with the asabiyah of the desert.


Engel, one of the architects of Marxist thought, viewed the Murabitun revolution in purely economic terms. He held that the impoverished Sanhaja tribes of the desert wanted to punish the rich, morally lax city dwellers and confiscate their wealth. Max Weber, a German historian, held that both economic and religious elements were present in the uprising of the desert tribes.

http://historyofislam.com/contents/the-classical-period/murabitun/

[Catya Sher]

The Murabitun sound interesting.

Do the Taliban know about them ? Have they mentioned anything
about parallels to the Murabitun in their literature / speeches ?

I would like to know more about that time.
I like the maghreb area all the way up to Granada, seat of the
ruling "Moors". A special time and place in history.

[Khorosani]

What are you doing then in the countries run by demon crazy, rights written up by humans and secularism? Why you do not shift to some country like Somalia, Sudan, Saudi, Iran or the Islamic Republics of Afghanistan, Pakistan?

Some people like the Sikhs talk of Taliban era because of the artificial security they maintained because of their terror and these are individual comments which does not strengthen the validity of the rule of Taliban. Why Afghans celebrated their fall? Why any other country did not copy their system. They were only recognized by 3 countries out of more than 200 countries in the world.

Comparing Taliban with Murabitun will be unfair. The two periods are totally different. At the time of Murabitun there was no democracy, parliaments and modern economic systems. At that time both Muslims and Christian were inspired by religion still many authors connect the movemnt of Murabitun to primal cohesiveness and economic pursuits not purely a religious movement.


Ibn Khaldun used it as a basis for his theory of the rise and fall of civilizations. According to Ibn Khaldun, civilizations are held together by asabiyah (primal cohesiveness). The characteristics that foster cohesiveness are to be found in profusion among the nomads of the desert. The nomads, acting as agents of change, overcome older civilizations and bring in new blood as well as the virtues of the desert: integrity, virility, courage, steadfastness and commitment to the tribe. With time, they settle down, become city dwellers and succumb to the vices that characterize city life. Decay sets in, which in turn is overcome by a new wave of conquest from the desert. It was Ibn Khaldun’s view that in the 11th century, Muslim North Africa and Spain had exhausted their virility to the vices of a luxurious city life. The Murabitun revolution was the tribal wave from the desert that overcame the corruption of city life and replaced it with the asabiyah of the desert.


Engel, one of the architects of Marxist thought, viewed the Murabitun revolution in purely economic terms. He held that the impoverished Sanhaja tribes of the desert wanted to punish the rich, morally lax city dwellers and confiscate their wealth. Max Weber, a German historian, held that both economic and religious elements were present in the uprising of the desert tribes.
http://historyofislam.com/contents/t...iod/murabitun/

Alhamdulillah i have left Canada for good. Unfortunately there isn't a Muslim country with full sharia I can migrate to as of yet.

and really, because a few scholars viewed the murabitun movement to be "solely" economic (marxist views don't even hold a voice in our religious knowledge) that doesn't make it so

A Thousand Years Ago In Mauritania - Kamal El Mekki - YouTube

This video shows the origins of the murabitun movement, and no doubt once the history is seen there can be no doubt that it started with a religious motive and not a economic one.

and thank you for agreeing with me that Sikhs and hindus did approve of the Talibans rule.

I still can't fathom how you can give the right of Allah to men, are you Muslim? If you aren't than your view point on Afghanistan doesn't hold place because AFG is a majority Muslim country and not a kafir one. Tell me, what makes human rights objectively the truth?

Extended Interview with Michael Scheuer - YouTube

even this kaffir understands that

secondly, i don't remember a poll being take from the whole afghan nation on whether the Taliban rule was accepted or not or whether everyone celebrated when they were ousted, doesn't matter Afghanistan is a Muslim nation before an afghan one and the Muslim nation as a whole loved the Taliban. If your claim is true the Taliban wouldn't have gained so much momentum and land through the current insurgency era we are living.

and lets be clear, there is no such thing as democracy the way it is theoretically presented. Algeria, Gaza and Egypt are perfect examples to display this. unless you use the democratic system to pick a party or individuals that are in sync with western powers morals, (lack of) values and view point than you cannot rule even if you were democratically elected. The bottom line is, secularism appeared in the Muslim world 200 years ago, was the main cause for the fall of the Ottomans yet instead of progressing through these 200 years we have more poverty, more wars, more diseases and more moral corruption. I am almost without a doubt that those who championed secularism (like the kafir attaturk) in the Muslim world did it because their own souls were corrupt and they wanted to do what ever they wanted and they knew they would gain power with the assistance of the Western super powers of the past and present.

[Khorosani]

The Murabitun sound interesting.

Do the Taliban know about them ? Have they mentioned anything
about parallels to the Murabitun in their literature / speeches ?

I would like to know more about that time.
I like the maghreb area all the way up to Granada, seat of the
ruling "Moors". A special time and place in history.

http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/TheIncompleteHistory-AndalusAfter1492.pdf

this book has a very good history on post al andalus, it also mentions the al murabitun movement.

[Badlun]

Alhamdulillah i have left Canada for good.

You might have left Canada but many Muslims still live there and many others are highly desirous to live there. In fact if Muslims are given a chance to live in Canada I am sure 90 % will move there. the 10 % will have the development and wealth of Canada so may stay back.

Unfortunately there isn't a Muslim country with full sharia I can migrate to as of yet.

How come in 1400 years you do not have today a single country with Sharia? It means your idea of Sharia is a total failure! By the way can you prove where the term appear in any Quranic text or authentic hadith? There is no Sharia. Only there is the religion of Islam.

and really, because a few scholars viewed the murabitun movement to be "solely" economic (marxist views don't even hold a voice in our religious knowledge) that doesn't make it so

How can you reject Ibne Khaldun?

A Thousand Years Ago In Mauritania - Kamal El Mekki - YouTube

This video shows the origins of the murabitun movement, and no doubt once the history is seen there can be no doubt that it started with a religious motive and not a economic one.

You think think this video is reliable but Ibne Khaldun or Max Weber not?

and thank you for agreeing with me that Sikhs and hindus did approve of the Talibans rule.

Few Sikhs or Hindus might have approved but billions of Muslims and non Muslims do not approve Taliban. The whole non Pashtun population of Afghanistan does not approve them. Pashtuns like Karzai, members of Parliament and many other also do not approve Taliban. Only 3 countries recognized them and these 3 are now fighting against Taliban.

I still can't fathom how you can give the right of Allah to men, are you Muslim? If you aren't than your view point on Afghanistan doesn't hold place because AFG is a majority Muslim country and not a kafir one. Tell me, what makes human rights objectively the truth?

I am a Muslim and I do recognize that the religion of Islam(faith, worship and ethics) have been revealed by Allah but in politics, economics, science, technology , culture, society we are free to formulate our own laws. We cannot make a law against five times prayer but for elections, development, education, civil matters, land issues, international relations we can make laws . Parliament is supreme. In Islam you have the moral principles of justice, consultation, equality etc but for detailed penal and civil codes, major and minor acts we humans have to make laws.

In the world there are about 4 billion non Muslims and they are successfully making their laws. Not a single Muslim country is developed. Non Muslim world is better in all aspects with their human made laws.

Extended Interview with Michael Scheuer - YouTube

even this kaffir understands that

secondly, i don't remember a poll being take from the whole afghan nation on whether the Taliban rule was accepted or not or whether everyone celebrated when they were ousted, doesn't matter Afghanistan is a Muslim nation before an afghan one and the Muslim nation as a whole loved the Taliban. If your claim is true the Taliban wouldn't have gained so much momentum and land through the current insurgency era we are living.

Taliban took over because of the civil strife and their terror but their rule was overthrown in few days. Today they have few pockets. They do not have a single district or province under their legitimate control.

and lets be clear, there is no such thing as democracy the way it is theoretically presented. Algeria, Gaza and Egypt are perfect examples to display this. unless you use the democratic system to pick a party or individuals that are in sync with western powers morals, (lack of) values and view point than you cannot rule even if you were democratically elected. The bottom line is, secularism appeared in the Muslim world 200 years ago, was the main cause for the fall of the Ottomans yet instead of progressing through these 200 years we have more poverty, more wars, more diseases and more moral corruption. I am almost without a doubt that those who championed secularism (like the kafir attaturk) in the Muslim world did it because their own souls were corrupt and they wanted to do what ever they wanted and they knew they would gain power with the assistance of the Western super powers of the past and present.

Muslim world have problems because of feudalism, military rules, dictators, monarchy not because of democratic secularism. The West with their secular democracy is far better than us. If secularism would fail then it would fail in the whole world. The only better country you have in Muslim world is Turkey which is secular. The most Islamic country can be Somalia or Sudan!

I am really astonished to see people living in the developed secular Western world and do not learn from them so that the poor Muslims do not have to struggle this hard to come to the secular west and make their own developed world in their own countries. We waited for 1400 years for Sharia but it is an absolute failure as your self say that there is not a single country today with Sharia! why we should wait more? 1400 years are too much to wait and experiment.

[Khorosani]

Muslim world have problems because of feudalism, military rules, dictators, monarchy not because of democratic secularism. The West with their secular democracy is far better than us. If secularism would fail then it would fail in the whole world. The only better country you have in Muslim world is Turkey which is secular. The most Islamic country can be Somalia or Sudan!
Okay, Muslim world has problems, secularism has been here for 200 years, why haven't these problems been rectified in the Muslim world? Because it doesn't work, we have went from a powerful rich nation into multiple nations without any economy.
You might have left Canada but many Muslims still live there and many others are highly desirous to live there. In fact if Muslims are given a chance to live in Canada I am sure 90 % will move there. the 10 % will have the development and wealth of Canada so may stay back.

Trust me, everyone i know in Canada who aren't morally bankrupt want to leave canada, and when I tell Muslims who desire to go to Canada the reality over there they don't want to go.

How come in 1400 years you do not have today a single country with Sharia? It means your idea of Sharia is a total failure! By the way can you prove where the term appear in any Quranic text or authentic hadith? There is no Sharia. Only there is the religion of Islam.

I see why SK can make takfir of you, not only have you just said Sharia is a failure but you also are Historically ignorant. Our history is filled with Sharia states from the Khulafa arrashidun to the Ottomans, it wasn't till the ottomons were ruled by the Young Turks did sharia get abandon and now we are in the mess we are today. So really you can only count 100 years and not 1400.

And you've also shown your ignorance of the Quran

ۚ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلْنَا مِنكُمْ شِرْعَةً وَمِنْهَاجًا

in surah maidah it says Sher'ah which is the same word sharia was derived from.

here is the next ayah that sharia has been used

شَرَعَ لَكُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا وَصَّىٰ بِهِ نُوحًا

or this ayah in surah shura

أَمْ لَهُمْ شُرَكَاءُ شَرَعُوا لَهُم مِّنَ الدِّينِ مَا لَمْ يَأْذَن بِهِ اللَّـهُ ۚ

Or have they other deities who have ordained for them a religion to which Allah has not consented

theres one more ayah but i can't remember which surah it is right now, all these terms are clear what sharia means and what it contains. It ranges from the laws to our beliefs.



How can you reject Ibne Khaldun?

BEcause ibn khaldun is one scholar in the range of many scholars and he has dubious opinions that he holds to
You think think this video is reliable but Ibne Khaldun or Max Weber not?

Yes of course, it is a historical presentation of al murabitun.

Few Sikhs or Hindus might have approved but billions of Muslims and non Muslims do not approve Taliban. The whole non Pashtun population of Afghanistan does not approve them. Pashtuns like Karzai, members of Parliament and many other also do not approve Taliban. Only 3 countries recognized them and these 3 are now fighting against Taliban.

I'm sorry, the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) state was not accepted by the world until he fought them and submitted them into his state, therefore whether other nations recognize or don't recognize the taliban it doesn't take away from there legitimacy rather it is the book of Allah and the sunnah that is used to recognize whether a nation is legitimate or not. Secondly, i can't remember when you took a poll from the Muslims on whether they approve or don't approve of the Taliban. I'm pretty sure the Iraqis, Syrians, Egyptians, Saudis, Qataris, Burmese, Chechnyans and Pakistanis who have gotten multiple aid from the Taliban and have aided them as well love the Taliban. As we can see when they opened there office. Furthermore statistics state that Taliban have at least 60% of Afghanistan so what are these few pockets you are talking about?

I am a Muslim and I do recognize that the religion of Islam(faith, worship and ethics) have been revealed by Allah but in politics, economics, science, technology , culture, society we are free to formulate our own laws. We cannot make a law against five times prayer but for elections, development, education, civil matters, land issues, international relations we can make laws . Parliament is supreme. In Islam you have the moral principles of justice, consultation, equality etc but for detailed penal and civil codes, major and minor acts we humans have to make laws.

Allah states that no one can do shirk in legistlation, and Him and His messenger has also given economic, societal, and penal laws that cannot be crossed, so what garbage are you spewing that these are not part of religion?Your basically stating that the laws Allah has prescribed are no more in use therefore less perfect than democracy, this is straight kufr.

In the world there are about 4 billion non Muslims and they are successfully making their laws. Not a single Muslim country is developed. Non Muslim world is better in all aspects with their human made laws.

4 billion non Muslims and all of them are in a mess, just look at the mess in south America and the only ones who are sort of getting through is America and Europe and they are doing so because of plundering and ripping off the rest of the world. And if you look at there morallity and society than they are socially and morally bankrupt! And you call that progress?

Taliban took over because of the civil strife and their terror but their rule was overthrown in few days. Today they have few pockets. They do not have a single district or province under their legitimate control.

This is such a stupid stereo type, i failed to see the terror in their methods, if you consider war and fighting to be terror than the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) also used terror.

I am really astonished to see people living in the developed secular Western world and do not learn from them so that the poor Muslims do not have to struggle this hard to come to the secular west and make their own developed world in their own countries. We waited for 1400 years for Sharia but it is an absolute failure as your self say that there is not a single country today with Sharia! why we should wait more? 1400 years are too much to wait and experiment.

I'm astonished to see people who claim to be Muslims and have such a high inferiority complex to the point they try to see their deen through the eyes of their western masters. In 1400 years of our ummah we've had plenty of states with sharia, and today we don't have one because as the hadith of the end of times states (refer to it here "The Khilafah is coming - I can see it" - Tariq Suwaidan (Sydney, Australia) - YouTube) we are living in Tyrannical kingdom so of course we have no sharia states except in a few pockets in the Muslim world but insha'Allah we will soon be on the path of minhajun nabuwa.

The problem with establishing sharia at the moment is the Western powers and soon to be China (i predict at least) and they are blocking us militarily, therefore we have brothers who are militarily matching them and even if it takes 30 more years our brothers will fight them until they BACK OFF and let us rule the way Allah wants it to be, i.e Sharia.

[Catya Sher]

I started reading this book - to return to the topic of this thread -
and was dismayed, as I feared I would be.
It was so propaganda-oriented that it is almost impossible to
read a single page without rolling eyes.

I have not by any means read much. But the authors seem bent
on their agenda, rather than reporting real information which might
be of interest especially to old Soviet-war era observers.

I will write more after I complete more, but I thought it was not
really an historical study the way it could have been.
Still, I am grateful to know of its existence !
It is very rare to find ; I don't think many libraries hold it in
their collections. So I would never have found it otherwise.