The dancing boys of Afghanistan

[Michin Khel]

kho daghase waya kana..

Several Europeans have travelled in the north west india, Afghanistan and central asia in the 19th century and have recorded the info, their observations and experiences in the books....they have mentioned customs, traditions and culture of afghan/pashtuns and none of them say any thing about bacha bazi, they mention bacha bazi as practice of central asia/turkistan. Today Bannu is known for bacha bazi but english commisionar of bannu in 1841 records no mention of bacha bazi in his book "bannu or our afghan frontier"...note that book discuss the character of bannuchis in detail including their vices.

[Kushan Prince]

It came to Afghanistan from central asian migrations after russian invasions, it was culture of turkistan. I was reading in a book that during first anglo-afghan war amir dost mohamad khan sought refuge with amir bukhara. The amir e bukhara when saw the two young sons of dost mohammad khan, expressed his desire to sleep with them...dost mohammad khan was utterly shocked at such demand, and within that night he escaped from bukhara. It were Russians who put end to bacha bazi in central asia.

Luffy,

The history of bacha bazi is much longer then that. It is is believed to have come from the ancient Greeks who practiced a similar practice with young boys before marriage. It was brought by the Alexander the great and his bored Greek soldiers, not the mongols. No doubt bacha bazi is not native to AFG but it has European roots.

[Michin Khel]

Luffy,

The history of bacha bazi is much longer then that. It is is believed to have come from the ancient Greeks who practiced a similar practice with young boys before marriage. It was brought by the Alexander the great and his bored Greek soldiers, not the mongols. No doubt bacha bazi is not native to AFG but it has European roots.

It is your creative theory?. Even Mughal king babur mentions his love for a boy in his native ferghana in his baburnama, nowhere he mentions that his foes pashtuns are also boy-lovers.....and why greeks didnt leave their pederasty foot prints on iran, Punjab , iraq and other conquered territories.....why kalash people , with abundant greek genes, do not fck their boys? or make them dance like girls?
As muslims we know that it was started in the city of sodom, qaum-e-lut.

[Wowra]

While Bacha Bazi is a complete travesty, to assume it is isolated to the north is only an attempt to pawn it off on ethnic lines. I've known Pashtuns to enjoy it south of Kabul, unfortunately.

Regardless of how or when it started, I think we should look at why it persists. I think its steadfast acceptability is more in direct relation to how Afghan sexuality has changed with respect to rising bride-price induced by the inflation of western money within the country. If the average Afghan male can't afford marriage until the age of 28, one has to note that this occurs after the peak of male sexuality. While fornication will result in death, bacha bazi and homosexual acts (not homosexuality) seem to circumvent this fate due to a tacit social acceptability.

A very interesting anecdotal study on Pashtun sexuality was conducted in Khandahar by a Human Terrain Team. I expect their findings will be explosive on this forum, but here it goes anyway:

http://info.publicintelligence.net/HTT-PashtunSexuality.pdf

So the question is - how can it be undone?

[SiiNii]

Which is worse in the eyes of Afghans? Red light districts in the major cities or widespread bacha bazi? The former is the manner that most of the world handles this issue, also in the Islamic countries the 'working girls' are non-Muslims. Seems simple enough to me.

[Wowra]

Yeah - I've met a more than a few folks that were A-OK with the "China-girls." That is the response I'd expect from a guy from Vegas haha... But honestly, we cant even get over our Puritanical sensibility for the widespread acceptability in the States, we certainly couldn't get it accepted in Afghanistan - not to the level that say homosexual acts are accepted. So there needs to be a different mode. I would say a pervasive separation from the bride-price, but we saw how well that went for Aminullah, and we know the tribal response.

Was bacha bazi prevalent during the reign of the Taliban? (Please someone other than Jamaludeen answer).

[Michin Khel]

While Bacha Bazi is a complete travesty, to assume it is isolated to the north is only an attempt to pawn it off on ethnic lines. I've known Pashtuns to enjoy it south of Kabul, unfortunately. Regardless of how or when it started, I think we should look at why it persists. I think its steadfast acceptability is more in direct relation to how Afghan sexuality has changed with respect to rising bride-price induced by the inflation of western money within the country. If the average Afghan male can't afford marriage until the age of 28, one has to note that this occurs after the peak of male sexuality. While fornication will result in death, bacha bazi and homosexual acts (not homosexuality) seem to circumvent this fate due to a tacit social acceptability. A very interesting anecdotal study on Pashtun sexuality was conducted in Khandahar by a Human Terrain Team. I expect their findings will be explosive on this forum, but here it goes anyway: http://info.publicintelligence.net/H...nSexuality.pdf So the question is - how can it be undone?

Interesting report, it seems characteristics of bachabazi in kandahar and Bannu/lakki are very much similar. It can be undone through islam, the problem is mullah is not playing his role, bacha bazi is not included in his priorities....

[Michin Khel]

Yeah - I've met a more than a few folks that were A-OK with the "China-girls." That is the response I'd expect from a guy from Vegas haha... But honestly, we cant even get over our Puritanical sensibility for the widespread acceptability in the States, we certainly couldn't get it accepted in Afghanistan - not to the level that say homosexual acts are accepted. So there needs to be a different mode. I would say a pervasive separation from the bride-price, but we saw how well that went for Aminullah, and we know the tribal response. Was bacha bazi prevalent during the reign of the Taliban? (Please someone other than Jamaludeen answer).

You are asking question from the members who have not spent any time under taliban rule, were in the western countries.

Also its not that every one in the area indulges in bacha bazi. It becomes a life time peghor for a person to become 'boy/ashna/bacha' of another man in exchange for some money and expenditures on him....once you offer your a$$ , you lose every ounce of respect in the society. But society is very hypocritic, it doesnt condemn and loathe the bacha baz...the bacha baz proudly boasts of keeping boy...the report was right, bacha bazi indicates power and status...you would see khans and badmashs in my area with young beautiful boys...they spend on boys and at night recieve the price.

If boy is not willing , he wont be bothered much. But there are always exceptions. I remember back in 1997, a police in bannu raped and murdered a boy when he refused to make friendship with him, this erupted the war between bannuchis and police (who are mostly marwats in bannu) which continued for days and curfew had to be imposed in the city. In another incident a badmash , murderer of dozens of people, shot a boy because he refused to accept his advances.

Its strange, parents keep have to keep more eye on their young fair sons, , than the daughters...in the areas plagued with bacha bazi....

The dancing part is different from afghanistan in our areas. There are professional boys or hijras who are paid to dance on weddings, they dress like women and dance....taliban put an end to this and now weddings are without them.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Yeah - I've met a more than a few folks that were A-OK with the "China-girls." That is the response I'd expect from a guy from Vegas haha... But honestly, we cant even get over our Puritanical sensibility for the widespread acceptability in the States, we certainly couldn't get it accepted in Afghanistan - not to the level that say homosexual acts are accepted. So there needs to be a different mode. I would say a pervasive separation from the bride-price, but we saw how well that went for Aminullah, and we know the tribal response.

Was bacha bazi prevalent during the reign of the Taliban? (Please someone other than Jamaludeen answer).

hahahaha.

I understand. You just want someone to give you the response that you want.. that would suit your taste...

[Wowra]

hahahaha.

I understand. You just want someone to give you the response that you want.. that would suit your taste...

Hahaha, Na - I just wanted to mess with you Jamaludeen. It was for fun.

Luffy -

Thanks so much for such a thorough response. I wouldn't imagine there is anyway to get out from under paighur once you've walked the path of the cheska. Does someone still go honor-bankrupt for casual homosexual sex? Or is that just something not spoken of?

It's also a very interesting point that you made that only one person in the bacha baz relationship ends up daus.

I agree Islam would be a hearty portion of the solution, but I don't think it can be the complete solution. This is an almost cultural issue at this point, so it can be strengthened with religion, but it seems like it would need support from a cultural fix.

I thought it would be a viable option for a start up non government organization to purchase the freedom of bachaloo and sort of have a house for them to undergo counseling from healthcare professionals and mullahs while they learned a new trade such as furniture-making etc. The NGO would sell those items to the west to fund the rescue in a sustainable manner. It could also incorporate the rescue of Afghan girls from *****houses in Dubai and every where else. They could craft rugs and woven items throughout their time the shelter. The only problem is the tremendous red flags that would arise when you have an NGO essentially buying people from the sex trade - regardless of cause/justification.

Obviously that just treats the problem, but it doesn't attack the systemic existence of it.

[Kushan Prince]

Interesting report, it seems characteristics of bachabazi in kandahar and Bannu/lakki are very much similar. It can be undone through islam, the problem is mullah is not playing his role, bacha bazi is not included in his priorities....

Bacha Bazi is not common at all in the south. Pashtuns there mostly there get tajik or hazara women dancing in their homes while throwing money at them like arab pimps.

[SiiNii]

Bacha Bazi is not common at all in the south. Pashtuns there mostly there get tajik or hazara women dancing in their homes while throwing money at them like arab pimps.

Which provinces have you traveled to besides Ontario?

[Wowra]

Which provinces have you traveled to besides Ontario?

That almost made me spit on my computer haha

[Pukhtoon007]

who cares where it comes from we know that it exists now and how do we get rid of it.

[Kushan Prince]

Which provinces have you traveled to besides Ontario?

I'm sorry, but what was that supposed to be an inside joke? I didn't understand your question.