Human right abuses by Pak army in FATA

[abassinafghan]

Luffy your list is nice but nothing new . IsI and pakieps dont play their games since yesterday or a year but för more then 30 years .

Instead of asking which donkey was tricked and which seems friend with the one eyed donkey .

The real question is how did we come so far that there are no more reasonable and capable men left over and our political fate rests on sada topakian who are used and abused like pawns . Uneducated people who are more concernd about the length of peoples beards and how people have to stand on namaz instead in the problems of the people.

Luffy , those people exactly know what they are doing they are *****s , once a ***** always a ***** . And isi is the pimp . At the end a little bit of money and sweettalk will solve the problem .

And they will prefer always. Pakistani qaldare over halal money from other sources or bey normal means .

[Friend]

Afghanistan has to make itself stronger internally otherwise these cries will never finish like the Muslims always cries about America. Because enemy's job is to destroy you its upto you how you utilise your potential.

[Admin Khan]

ISI is very efficient organization. So far they have succeeded in turning one faction of talibans against another and prevent them from uniting under one banner...look at ISI's record
1- They quicky approached turkistan bhittani , who split away from baitulluh mehsud due to differences. They provided finances and other supports to bhittani talibans and encouraged them to launch attacks on mehsud talibans. They also brought turkistan to media to say that how TTP actions are unislamic. Resources and attention of TTP got spending on turkistan bhittani. Then in military operation in south waziristan army employed bhittani group to establish control on already captured areas. Turkistan bhittani was dreaming of having his own area of influence. But due to poor performance of bhittani against powerful mehsuds, army unarmed him and his men despite his protests , to establish army writ over Tank district. Bhittani claimed that he got used by Army against TTP ...moral of this story is that if you give yourself completely to army, they are going to used you and then throw away like tissue paper.
2- Abdullah mehsud group split away from baitullah mehsud group...they were also approached by ISI and togather with turkistan bhittani, they were helped by army to fight against baitullah mehsud...its leader Qari hussain was assassinated in DI khan, their story ends here...
3- Maulvi nazir, leader of wazir talibans of south waziristan got in conflict with troublesome uzbeks, this angered baitullah mehsud who was providing sanctuary to Uzbeks. ISI took advantage of the situation, provided him every kind of help in his war against uzbeks and then against TTP...after that army formed non-aggession pact with maulvi nazir group...Maulvi nazir survived two drones and because of that he broke peace deal and said that deal is invalid untill pakistan ask america to stop drone attacks. Later he formed alliance both with TTP and hafiz gul bahadur group, also maintained non-aggression against pak army and focused on Afghanistan...to break the alliance between TTP and maulvi and turned them against each other, pampflets in pashto were distributed by ISI in nazir's area supposedly written by baitullah against maulvi nazir. Both group called it propaganda of ISI...This guy got droned recently and his group's trust in pakistan military is seem to be lifted and i think they are realizing double games of Pakistan...
4- Hafiz gul bahadur , commander of north waziristan talibans...they are focused on afghanistan...like nazir they are hostile to uzbeks...has formed non-aggression pact with pak army, has allowed them limited movements in north waziristan...is not part of TTP but is not hostile to them either...whenever army try to flex its muscles , they attack and kill or kidnap faujis as warning....as army is focused on TTP so they have no choice but to have peace deals with this guy...after american withdrawl they would continue to focus on afghanistan but if pak army gets naughty with them then he can easily join hands with TTP against army...
5- Haqqani network, has good relationships with ISI , wont participate against in move against pakistan army.
6- Mangal bagh , commander of lashkar e islam in khyber agency of afridi tribe. Was fighting long sectarian war with bareilvi militants of ansar ul islam and defeated them. Had complete control of bara tehsil, was openely pro-pakistan and pro-army and ISI allowed him to carry on his activities in khyber agency freely. Now this month army has decided to clear the tirah of his militants so that NATO supply line is in governament control after american withrdrawl. Mangal bagh has joined hands with TTP and togather they are giving so much resistance to Pak army that dozens of elite SSG commandos are falling like common soldiers..to prevent it from being a disaster, pakistan air force is bombarding each and every inch of tirah...if mangal bagh and his group survives he would be a great headache for Pakistan army as their area of influence is few kilometers away from peshawer...and is also has long border with afghanistan.

In short ISI has utilized its capabilities and has taken advantage of every oppurtunity so far to keep talibans divided...yet they have badly failed against TTP now led by hakimullah mehsud....still they would continue playing their spy roles and lets see how they perform...hakimullah mehsud's amir ul momineen is mullah omar and they listen to him and respect him...afghan talibans would definately provide sanctuary to TTP. TTP has support of foriegn militants as well as punjabi talibans, now mangal bagh of khyber agency has made alliance with them, their range and scope is very wide...TTP can not defeat pak army but they would exchaust them in the long run..similarly pak army is unable to finish TTP...the question is who has high stamina for decades long war?...pashtun talibans? Or pak army who surrendered its 90 thousands of its troops after just 8 days war in east bengal when they faced stronger enemy....while religion and faith drives and motivates TTP...secular like Pak army relies on support , motivation and cheering from civilians , and civilians support is disappointing, from pashtun population there is no support at all, so they are highly demoralized....they are definately going for peace deals with talibans, as after american withdrawl they wont be able to milk dollars from uncle sam...TTP i think wont listen, their goal is islamabad...according to retd general ali jan orakzai, the main person behind peace deals with talibans, it was always army during musharaf times who broke peace deal with talibans under american pressure...TTP simply dont trust two tongued Army/ISI

Luffy,

Is the Punjabification/Desification of Pashtuns on the rise in Pakistan?

[Michin Khel]

Luffy,

Is the Punjabification/Desification of Pashtuns on the rise in Pakistan?

You mean culturally? Not that much as most of the pakhtuns are still rural and traditional and conscious about their ethnic identity....i have seen extreme cultural modification of pakhtuns in big cities outside pakhtunkhwa..or among very modern upper class pashtun families...here and there i see few cases where pashto speaking parents make their kids learn english or urdu instead of their mother tongue...such cases always occur in very big cities....In pakistan being modern/western or speaking english, being burger-khor is symbol of being elite class...few pashtuns try to climb the ladder to reach such status by wearing patloon, speaking urdu/english and giving up on pashtun cultural identity...but their ratio is very very small compared to punjabis and mohajirs who are beghairat enough to give up on every thing.
If you ask me about mindset, then new generation of pakistanis are surely pakistanized from every aspect....and it has to do with pakistani education, literature, media etc
Before 1947 pashtun was only proud pashtun...nowadays he is conflicted, proud pashtun as well as proud pakistani...in future we might be only proud pakistanis,...or may be not as future is always uncertain....Only thing good about pakistan in this regard is that unlike iranis and turkish and others, they dont impose cultural and linguistic restrictions and bans, iranis forcibly persianized balochs and azeris, turks is trying the same with kurds...none the less without attention and encouragement of state of pakistan, our langauge, literature, music, culture etc going to be decayed and dying.

More than desification, radicalization of pashtun belt has taken place.

[khushal]

Luffy your list is nice but nothing new . IsI and pakieps dont play their games since yesterday or a year but för more then 30 years .

Instead of asking which donkey was tricked and which seems friend with the one eyed donkey .

The real question is how did we come so far that there are no more reasonable and capable men left over and our political fate rests on sada topakian who are used and abused like pawns . Uneducated people who are more concernd about the length of peoples beards and how people have to stand on namaz instead in the problems of the people.

Luffy , those people exactly know what they are doing they are *****s , once a ***** always a ***** . And isi is the pimp . At the end a little bit of money and sweettalk will solve the problem .

And they will prefer always. Pakistani qaldare over halal money from other sources or bey normal means .

The situation is more complex than how you perceive it. If you go up to Mullah Omar and offer him a billion dollars and he agrees to put down his arms, that will not solve the problem. The problem is bigger than him, the ISI and the US combined.
Your dealing with the mood of the people, millions of people, they have killed hundreds if not thousands of people in position of leadership but it has only fueled the destability, not reduced it. Violence is on the Rise in both afghanistan and pakistan.

[Michin Khel]

After several attacks on pak army check posts in miranshah, there is indefinite curfew in north waziristan which means shoot at sight orders are given to army. All the exits and entrances are sealed and no one is allowed to enter or go out of waziristan..Army and gunship helicopters shoot any moving human being outside homes...due to contineous curfew for more than month, there is extreme shortage of food and people are starving, even the contestants for elections are unable to submit nomination papers and students were unable to appear in matric exams...while Fauji jawans are eating three times meal...
During attacks on checkpost and crossfire, army has inflicted heavy damage on people of miranshah due to use of heavy weaponry, many houses are destroyed with lot of civilian casaulties...

[Admin Khan]

You mean culturally? Not that much as most of the pakhtuns are still rural and traditional and conscious about their ethnic identity....i have seen extreme cultural modification of pakhtuns in big cities outside pakhtunkhwa..or among very modern upper class pashtun families...here and there i see few cases where pashto speaking parents make their kids learn english or urdu instead of their mother tongue...such cases always occur in very big cities....In pakistan being modern/western or speaking english, being burger-khor is symbol of being elite class...few pashtuns try to climb the ladder to reach such status by wearing patloon, speaking urdu/english and giving up on pashtun cultural identity...but their ratio is very very small compared to punjabis and mohajirs who are beghairat enough to give up on every thing.
If you ask me about mindset, then new generation of pakistanis are surely pakistanized from every aspect....and it has to do with pakistani education, literature, media etc
Before 1947 pashtun was only proud pashtun...nowadays he is conflicted, proud pashtun as well as proud pakistani...in future we might be only proud pakistanis,...or may be not as future is always uncertain....Only thing good about pakistan in this regard is that unlike iranis and turkish and others, they dont impose cultural and linguistic restrictions and bans, iranis forcibly persianized balochs and azeris, turks is trying the same with kurds...none the less without attention and encouragement of state of pakistan, our langauge, literature, music, culture etc going to be decayed and dying.

More than desification, radicalization of pashtun belt has taken place.

But isn't ANP and PKMAP doing a lot to preserve Pukhto?

[Michin Khel]

@Admin khan
Pashto was already compulsory subject upto primary level in governament schools before ANP governament. The new thing was that pashto would be implemented in private schools also, but read following report.
90% private schools do not teach Pashto as a subject, the KP Edu Deptt playing role of a silent spectator | Dateline Peshawar
Pashto as compulsory subject: Private schools defy govt orders | Newspaper | DAWN.COM

Bada ye na omanay PKMAP yway hisabay che na razi...though i have great respect for achakzai sahab but he has a small party limited to one or two districts of balochistan...

Yousafazipakhtun and toramana can shed better light on your question...

[BLS_1919v2.0]

^^Going to a private school there in Peshawar, I remember the strict policy they had against Pashto. They still have that complex and you rarely find real well-wishers of the language unfortunately.

[Talal]

But isn't ANP and PKMAP doing a lot to preserve Pukhto?

ANP is the least ideological of the two and after their recent performance I doubt they'll be getting any seats except maybe 2 or 3.

PkMAP is very ideological and democratic, but they only have achakzai who only wins his own seat from Quetta.

you need to win seats to implement that sort of change.

[Khyber Pass]

One thing I hate about Pakistan is how much they promote the Punjabi language or culture. We have many cultures and languages in Pakistan, infact we are very diverse, but all I ever see is Punjabi culture being promoted, even in Peshawar I've heard there is an indeed strict rule on not speaking Pashto and promoting the use of Urdu. Why are we being assimilated? Even in Afghanistan, we are being assimilated into a more Persian culture, even Pashtuns I know calling themselves Persians, it's pathetic, we should do something about it.

[Admin Khan]

^^Going to a private school there in Peshawar, I remember the strict policy they had against Pashto. They still have that complex and you rarely find real well-wishers of the language unfortunately.

Sad but true. Even in Quetta, a Pashtun majority city, Pashtuns are taught Baluchi, but not Pashto.

[mayan]

I proud that i am pakistani

And peopel like mayan are pround Pakistany and celebrates the creation of Pakistan
-_-

and secondly pak Military Help to Afghanistan and Russia War
Mola Omer (Afghan Mujhaid) Said in our speech that Pakistani Army Second name is Green sabaz mujhaid

. After the Soviet retreat, the ISI and the Pakistani government supported Gulbuddin Hekmatyar in his 1992–1994 bombardment campaign against the ISlamic State of Afghanistan and the capital Kabul. It is widely agreed that after Gulbuddin Hekmatyar failed to take over power in Afghanistan, the ISI helped to found the Afghan Taliban The ISI in conjunction with other parts of the Pakistani military subsequently provided financial, logistical, military and direct combat support to the Taliban until the attacks of 9/11. It is widely acknowledged that the ISI has given the Afghan Taliban safe havens inside Pakistan and supported the Taliban's resurgence in Afghanistan after 9/11 helping them, especially the Haqqani network, carry out attacks inside Afghanistan

But now these Day Pak Army is not a Good military . Its all credit go to mushraf . and also Ishfaq Kiyani (general) were Fight to Pak army Each other in Pakistan , they are fight to pashtun . and our president take money they are all sold . .

here is no Terrorist are all Black water America Israeli and India Agency .

[mayan]

when i am too young my wish that i was join PAk army
but when i know Pak army are were sold now i hated . i just like one Army . the Army of Allah Mujhaideen .

[MostafaM]

Mayan,

1. Pakistani Military didn´t Afghanistan. It helped itself by training and funding islamic groups like the Hisbe Islami and Jamiat way before the Russian Invasion;
Hikmatyar and Massoud organized the "Panjsher Mutiny" in 1975 with Pakistani assistance. They had fled there after the Daoud Takeover of the state.

2. Mullah Omar is not considered a "mujahid" by Afghans.
His services from 1980-1989 are well known and respected.
His post-1998 aka siding with Al Qaida and becoming an Arab/Pakistani agent arent appreciated at all.

It is Pakistani policy to unite that ethnic and linguistic diverge country by uniting it under one language (Urdu) and the banner of one religion. For that they have to sideline other languages by assimilating its population into one "Pakistani nation" (whatever that may be).

So, get real, understand where Pashtuns stand and what struggles they have ahead, or let yourself be assimilated into that ****ty idea of Pakistan.
Your choice!
But do not lecture others about what you believe in.