Does thinking for yourself automatically dub you as a conspiracist?

[یاسمینه]

Khushal is deliberately lying ...seriously think about it, Pashtuns celebrate a son's birth and not a daughter's because the daughter is with them temporarily and son permanently? Why wouldn't they be more celebratory of a daughter then since her time with them is shorter and thus more precious and rare?
Well, Khushal words aren't my only only one source of knowledge. I also read about it in the Pashtunwali by Khadim. There is a separate bab about this topic. Also Westerner etnographer, Benedicte Grima who lived few years among Pashtuns in Pakistan writes about it in her book The Performance of Emotion about Pashtun Women. Also Fredrik Barth wrote about it but I don't remember where - Last Wali of Swat or Political Leadership amond Swat Pathans.
And secondly; most Pashtun women are forced to marry their first cousins who live in the SAME Village as them. So how will they be temporary. Thirdly, the son will have his own family, his children and spouse will take away from devotion to his parents naturally.
This is what I know. On of my friend (man) was forced to marry his first cousin (so she was alos forced to do that) because it was the will of his parents. I think both women and men can suffer from unwanted marriages. And I also know that forced marriages aren't the only one way of getting married and that not every arranged marriage is a diseaster for a woman (and not only).
SO many inconsistencies in Khushal's narrative; I'm not jealous, but I did not think you'd be so easily swayed by pretty words while ignoring whether or not it makes any sense.
I wasn't. Usually what I read here or elsewhere, I check in other sources or ask my friends. But it often happens that I get tso different answers from two reliable sources. Like recently. I asked two Pashtuns, one born in Kabul, second one has been lived in Kabul for 8 years about colors of chadari. One said that Pashtun women usually wear yellow ones, second one that blue and white. Both of them are right to me because both have different experience etc. One version does not exclude other.

I'm just saying don't stop your critical thinking just because it sounds good.

Thank you for your concern about my education

[Kushan Prince]

If there was no evidence for the conspiracy’s there wouldn’t be any conspiracy against the subject matter in the first place.

False.


Conspiracy is arisen from suspicion and most of the time they are ridiculous and aren't even worthy of being called "conspiracy theories". There created by individuals who don't want to believe the governments side of the story.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Thank you for your concern about my education

welll you missed my point; if the lady is marrying her first cousin, which is usually the case she isn't "going away permanently" as Khushal says, so that leaves the question still open, why such a negative attitude towards women amongst Pashtuns?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Again Lutz answers this question.

Different Pashtun men have different attitudes because it is guided by how shame is perceived and evaluated. These are RTR's sources and he has failed to read them.

you realize the sentence you quote is saying there's a standard understanding that isn't based on moral right and wrong but ego and pride right?

lol

I think you really are cognitively challenged when it comes to comprehension of the material you read

[یاسمینه]

welll you missed my point; if the lady is marrying her first cousin, which is usually the case she isn't "going away permanently" as Khushal says, so that leaves the question still open, why such a negative attitude towards women amongst Pashtuns?

Now I am confused. The Khushal's post with my thank says nothing about what you write above. So could you please re-word it or clarify.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Now I am confused. The Khushal's post with my thank says nothing about what you write above. So could you please re-word it or clarify.

It's in the last part of his response

When a baby girls is born, it is considered not as joyous as a baby boy because they know the girl would one day leave them, the boy will always stay with the family. The girl is considered a temporary member of the family while the boy is considered a permanent member. During weddings the brides family including the bride is always seen crying.

[یاسمینه]

It's in the last part of his response

Ok. I've got it.
I don't know if a woman can visit her parents after marriage, even if they live in same village, as often as she wants. But after marriage she belongs to her husband's family and to her mother-in-law women circle.
On marriage a woman becomes part of her husband's group, and authority over her is transferred from her hather (or guardian) to her husband. She may not leave the home without her husband's permission. She retains no legal rights in her natal family, she normally receives no share in inheritance, and she cannot appeal to her father or brothers to protect her against her husband. Her sentimental ties to her parents to revisit her natal home - traditionally after a fortnight of married life, and later for family celebrations of various kinds. However, if the husband's relations with his parents-in-law are not friendly, he will not grant his wife such permission. When she dies a wife is usually buried in the section of the village cemetery used by her huband's patriline. [...]
F. Barth, Political Leadership among Swat Pathans, London 1975, p. 39.

For sure I am not a Khushal's advocate, but the above quotation reflects my understanding of the "permanently giving away" part of his post.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Ok. I've got it.
I don't know if a woman can visit her parents after marriage, even if they live in same village, as often as she wants. But after marriage she belongs to her husband's family and to her mother-in-law women circle.
On marriage a woman becomes part of her husband's group, and authority over her is transferred from her hather (or guardian) to her husband. She may not leave the home without her husband's permission. She retains no legal rights in her natal family, she normally receives no share in inheritance, and she cannot appeal to her father or brothers to protect her against her husband. Her sentimental ties to her parents to revisit her natal home - traditionally after a fortnight of married life, and later for family celebrations of various kinds. However, if the husband's relations with his parents-in-law are not friendly, he will not grant his wife such permission. When she dies a wife is usually buried in the section of the village cemetery used by her huband's patriline. [...]
F. Barth, Political Leadership among Swat Pathans, London 1975, p. 39.

For sure I am not a Khushal's advocate, but the above quotation reflects my understanding of the "permanently giving away" part of his post.

Yes but she's married to her kakazoy or mamazoy, and this "separation" doesn't happen if you consider that entire families live in the Qillah

[یاسمینه]

Yes but she's married to her kakazoy or mamazoy, and this "separation" doesn't happen if you consider that entire families live in the Qillah

An what if they don't live in the Qillah? Can you 100% state that most of Pashtun families live like that? I think it is only one possibilities.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

An what if they don't live in the Qillah? Can you 100% state that most of Pashtun families live like that? I think it is only one possibilities.

most of the time they do since in villages families are interconnected. In fact most people in a village are usually related. Usually the Qilley are separated by grandfather's brother's descendants and so on. The village life is very interactive.

[khushal]

most of the time they do since in villages families are interconnected. In fact most people in a village are usually related. Usually the Qilley are separated by grandfather's brother's descendants and so on. The village life is very interactive.

It does not make a difference. The girl is still leaving the house. She is no longer with her father and mother and her siblings. Even if people in the village are related, she is still leaving her home sweet home. Her koko or momo is not the same as her own dad.
Ask any pashtun why the brides family cries at weddings.

[khushal]

you realize the sentence you quote is saying there's a standard understanding that isn't based on moral right and wrong but ego and pride right?

lol

I think you really are cognitively challenged when it comes to comprehension of the material you read

Evolutionary speaking, the concept of shame is related to morals. For example, a person that stole feels shame becasue he/she has feels they have done something wrong.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Evolutionary speaking, the concept of shame is related to morals. For example, a person that stole feels shame becasue he/she has feels they have done something wrong.

Not necessarily, for example shame can also mean inferiority in general. for example many Pashtuns feel "ashamed" if they don't have a halek for "bacha baz". That's hardly moral but still shame persists if a man doesn't have the hottest bacha around. Here it is about ego

[khushal]

Khushal is deliberately lying ...seriously think about it, Pashtuns celebrate a son's birth and not a daughter's because the daughter is with them temporarily and son permanently? Why wouldn't they be more celebratory of a daughter then since her time with them is shorter and thus more precious and rare? And secondly; most Pashtun women are forced to marry their first cousins who live in the SAME Village as them. So how will they be temporary. Thirdly, the son will have his own family, his children and spouse will take away from devotion to his parents naturally.

SO many inconsistencies in Khushal's narrative; I'm not jealous, but I did not think you'd be so easily swayed by pretty words while ignoring whether or not it makes any sense.

Khushal is basically like the CENTCOM for Backwards cultural beliefs. JUst like CENTCOM inflates unrealistic portrayals of U.S. Military Expansionism , Khushal tries to create a picturesque scenario.

Furthermore notice Khushal never supports anything he claims he experiences with any INDEPENDENTLY corroborateable evidence? Usually that's when people are making stuff up.


I'm just saying don't stop your critical thinking just because it sounds good.

All of this is jibberish. Your thinking afghanistan is like america with individualistic mindset. She is with the family temporarily ghul. Even if she moves to another family in the village, its still a loss. And the son never leaves the family, he is still in the home. we are not talking about devotion of time, we are talking about presence and treatment of the girl. She will always be treated better in her fathers home than any other home.

Pashtun life in the village is not really documented so there is no document I could provide.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It does not make a difference. The girl is still leaving the house. She is no longer with her father and mother and her siblings. Even if people in the village are related, she is still leaving her home sweet home. Her koko or momo is not the same as her own dad.
Ask any pashtun why the brides family cries at weddings.

Well in that sense then the same applies for the son, maybe even more so since the son shifts focus on his own family. This argument is vacuous at best. Since the actual "separation" doesn't exist for most cases.