DEBATE: Secularist Pashtuns

[Mutakhasis]

Taliban achieved what no other Western country could have in Afghanistan

Now that is practical

[Nadir Shah]

I agree with you. In France, at the time when Christians were killing each other to appease God, the same way as our mullahs do now, Voltaire, the famous French philosopher, said: 'Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.'

In our context, we can change it to this: 'Man will never be free until the last General (or warlord) is strangled with the entrails of the last mullah.'

Malgariya, isn't Denis Diderot the person who said this? This is very true off course but let me add that the phrase 'and the evil of private property is abolished'.

[Mutakhasis]

I am very impressed with the level of debate here. Special congratulations to Levane_Zalmay, Qrratugai, StrategicMaseed, Hairan, Enlarger, etc. to enunciate secular ideals such lucidly. I really admire this board for being one of the most enlightened Pashtun forums.

Let me say that secularism by allowing for separation of religion from state and idealogical pluralism in personal domain, lays the ground for broader unity of a society. Religion on the other hand is highly divisive and absolutist. It tends to divide people on sectarian lines.

Impressed already without any practical examples?

You must have very low standards haha

[JAMALUDEEN]

Impressed already without any practical examples?

You must have very low standards haha

How about India and Pakistan for a practical example.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Malgariya, isn't Denis Diderot the person who said this? This is very true off course but let me add that the phrase 'and the evil of private property is abolished'.

who cares who said it? Let him speak. He wants to sound intelligent by mentioning voltaires name.

[erlangner]

Taliban achieved what no other Western country could have in Afghanistan

Now that is practical

I can exemplify it as my dear. See no system is perfect but we should look at the most working and practicle.
I am living in germnay from the last 4 years and never was hurted or bothered by police or public and I am allowed to do what i want to do with more freedom than i did in pakistan. In taliban regime it was impossible. The whole europe basis on nationalism and secularism, as they have divided countries on culture and languages and then people are free to practice which religion they want.
Is this not enough?
But this need a mind which can think, eyes whcih can see, ears which can hear and hearts which can feel.

[pekhawar]

I can exemplify it as my dear. See no system is perfect but we should look at the most working and practicle.
I am living in germnay from the last 4 years and never was hurted or bothered by police or public and I am allowed to do what i want to do with more freedom than i did in pakistan. In taliban regime it was impossible. The whole europe basis on nationalism and secularism, as they have divided countries on culture and languages and then people are free to practice which religion they want.
Is this not enough?
But this need a mind which can think, eyes whcih can see, ears which can hear and hearts which can feel.

The west is more tolerable to Islam then Islamic countries itself.

Look at Pakistan declaring Muslim sects as Kuffar .

[Mutakhasis]

I can exemplify it as my dear. See no system is perfect but we should look at the most working and practicle.

You're correct all of the man-made ideologies and governments are not perfect, that's why Islaam is not man-made as it would have many contradictions. Islaam is a perfect way of life, it adopts to a persons natural disposition

I am living in germnay from the last 4 years and never was hurted or bothered by police or public and I am allowed to do what i want to do with more freedom than i did in pakistan.

Well first you aren't even a practicing Muslim, rather a secularist

Germany has many cases of Islaamophobia, and the killing of a pregnant woman in court, you shouldn't be so arrogant to use yourself as an ultimate example as what goes on in Germany. And again you're not a practicing Muslim, you're a Secularist

Pakistan is not a country that's being ruled by any Islaamic system, it's a republic

In taliban regime it was impossible. The whole europe basis on nationalism and secularism, as they have divided countries on culture and languages and then people are free to practice which religion they want.
Is this not enough?

What was impossible under the Taliban? What exactly do you do in Germany through the so-called freedoms that you have, that you couldn't do anywhere else? In fact you can do more in Pakistan than you could ever do in Germany. So this is why right now I think you're full of yourself

But this need a mind which can think, eyes whcih can see, ears which can hear and hearts which can feel.

Haha do you even know the difference between Secularism and Democracy? Germany is a federal parliamentary republic

This post was irrelevant

[Mutakhasis]

The west is more tolerable to Islam then Islamic countries itself.

Look at Pakistan declaring Muslim sects as Kuffar .

You live in a bubble, the Western countries are more opposed to Islaam, and they are the ones who established the puppet governments in Muslim countries to oppose Islaam, I suggest you read up on how those governments were put into power and which Western country colonized what area of the Islaamic world

Qadiyanis are Kuffar without a doubt, whoever doesn't think so than that person him/herself is most likely a Kaafir and doesn't know Islaam at all, they aren't even practicing and just Muslim by name

[Mutakhasis]

They established puppet govt for there own benefits.

But in the USA I can proudly say I am a Muslim. Compare this to Pakistan where the citizens even blow up mosques.

You can say you're Muslim anywhere in the world, that's not exclusive to USA

The problem comes in when you practice Islaam as a way of life and not simply as a religion, they have no problem that you wear hijab, pray 5 times a day and fast during Ramadan.

Once you speak and implement Islaam as a way of life, as in a Islaamic government, you will see their real hatred towards the Deen as been clearly said by their President and top generals. They are fighting in Afghanistan to oppose an Islaamic caliphate

[Mutakhasis]

America is not how it use to be, today America is a police state, and their media is a state run outlet that spread hatred towards Islaam

[شمله ور خراساني]

It still has more freedom then any Islaamic Govt in the world or a Muslim dominant country.

your statement doesn’t make any sense. Because most Islamic governments that put restriction on freedoms, do so to please America.

[Mutakhasis]

It still has more freedom then any Islaamic Govt in the world or a Muslim dominant country.

That's the problem, there's no Islaamic government in the world and the Muslim countries are ruled by puppet governments that are controlled by the Western colonialists

So what you've said is false from every angle

I've started a thread on what an Islaamic government should be and will keep updating it http://www.pashtunforums.com/politic...ernment-3523/?