DEBATE: Islam isthe root cause of backwardness in Pashtun society

[شمله ور خراساني]

Muslims.

the premise of your question is flawed. Therefore, unworthy of an answer.

[tor_khan]

the premise of your question is flawed. Therefore, unworthy of an answer.

Hubris Syndrome.

[Jana]

Misinterpretation of religion to justify the man-made traditions, norms and culture is one of the root causes of ills in any society. Religion in this case Islam in itself is not the cause of this backwardness

[شمله ور خراساني]

Hubris Syndrome.

thank you. I'll take that as a compliment.

[Jana]

What we do need is a moderate form of Islam. When you have mullahs that say ban tvs,computers, do this and do that a society can not advance.

True Islam is already moderate. Havent you read that Islam stresses on moderate path, No tilting towards any extreme. Its always sirat-e-mustakeem the middle path which is straight clear no left right

[erlangner]

it is not called sirat-e-mustaqeem, but called ummata-n-wasata.
Ya but how we will define what is true Islam, as the people who claim to be true Islam and call all other people deviating form their defined path, to be munafiq, kaafir, and many thing else. The moderate people never called these fanatics with such titles, as zindeeq, kaafir, munafiq, although they clearly desrve these terms.
Then in such a chaos, who will decide what is true and moderate Islam?
I met one such moomin on last friday and after friday he was discussing, why Ahmadi are kaafir, why shia are kaafir, why brelvi are kaafir, why ghair muqallad are kaafir, why this is kaafir and why that is kafir, and then at last I decided for him, that except you everyone is kaafir.
The greater problem with these fanatics and fundamentalists and extermists are, that they not only interprete but also try to impose their wished Islam in all the society using force. Then who should be blamed for the backwardness?
Then no way Islam is the hurdle in backwardness, but the violance, anarchy and extremist mentality of fanatics is the main hurdle. After this, they dont let the common masses to discuss what is right and worng for them, and they think that they are the only people who can decide for the whoel society and then their decision throw the societies into hell. Like Mullah Omer threw Afghanistan into it. Fazlullah threw Swat into hell. Faqeer muhammad did same with bajaur. Baitullah mehsud with waziristan and each mulah at local and narrow level threw each village into hell.
We need to train them rightly, to make them tolerate the opposite views.
As long as we do not succeed making them understand the system, we cannot can get rid of the chaos.
There are many other reasons for the backwardness. But it is the main.
For this islam cannot be blamed, but fanatic mullahs.

[amna.]

it is not called sirat-e-mustaqeem, but called ummata-n-wasata.
Ya but how we will define what is true Islam, as the people who claim to be true Islam and call all other people deviating form their defined path, to be munafiq, kaafir, and many thing else. The moderate people never called these fanatics with such titles, as zindeeq, kaafir, munafiq, although they clearly desrve these terms.
Then in such a chaos, who will decide what is true and moderate Islam?
I met one such moomin on last friday and after friday he was discussing, why Ahmadi are kaafir, why shia are kaafir, why brelvi are kaafir, why ghair muqallad are kaafir, why this is kaafir and why that is kafir, and then at last I decided for him, that except you everyone is kaafir.
The greater problem with these fanatics and fundamentalists and extermists are, that they not only interprete but also try to impose their wished Islam in all the society using force. Then who should be blamed for the backwardness?
Then no way Islam is the hurdle in backwardness, but the violance, anarchy and extremist mentality of fanatics is the main hurdle. After this, they dont let the common masses to discuss what is right and worng for them, and they think that they are the only people who can decide for the whoel society and then their decision throw the societies into hell. Like Mullah Omer threw Afghanistan into it. Fazlullah threw Swat into hell. Faqeer muhammad did same with bajaur. Baitullah mehsud with waziristan and each mulah at local and narrow level threw each village into hell.
We need to train them rightly, to make them tolerate the opposite views.
As long as we do not succeed making them understand the system, we cannot can get rid of the chaos.
There are many other reasons for the backwardness. But it is the main.
For this islam cannot be blamed, but fanatic mullahs.

Just to add those kind of people are the reason we are hated by many worldwide. we are quick to declare anyone who's faith is not similar to ours as Kafir. any scholar we dont like as unfair, or "illogical" I've noticed a few here( I wont generalize since this place has many great,great members)do that.


Islam was never meant to be used for politics. Islam is way of life. Its sad to see many people committing suicide attacks, killing there own pashtun brothers. To say Islam is the root cause is a shame, it really is. Never blame Islam. Blame its followers who are following a misinterpreted version of it.

[Jana]

it is not called sirat-e-mustaqeem, but called ummata-n-wasata.
Ya but how we will define what is true Islam, as the people who claim to be true Islam and call all other people deviating form their defined path, to be munafiq, kaafir, and many thing else. The moderate people never called these fanatics with such titles, as zindeeq, kaafir, munafiq, although they clearly desrve these terms.
Then in such a chaos, who will decide what is true and moderate Islam?
I met one such moomin on last friday and after friday he was discussing, why Ahmadi are kaafir, why shia are kaafir, why brelvi are kaafir, why ghair muqallad are kaafir, why this is kaafir and why that is kafir, and then at last I decided for him, that except you everyone is kaafir.
The greater problem with these fanatics and fundamentalists and extermists are, that they not only interprete but also try to impose their wished Islam in all the society using force. Then who should be blamed for the backwardness?
Then no way Islam is the hurdle in backwardness, but the violance, anarchy and extremist mentality of fanatics is the main hurdle. After this, they dont let the common masses to discuss what is right and worng for them, and they think that they are the only people who can decide for the whoel society and then their decision throw the societies into hell. Like Mullah Omer threw Afghanistan into it. Fazlullah threw Swat into hell. Faqeer muhammad did same with bajaur. Baitullah mehsud with waziristan and each mulah at local and narrow level threw each village into hell.
We need to train them rightly, to make them tolerate the opposite views.
As long as we do not succeed making them understand the system, we cannot can get rid of the chaos.
There are many other reasons for the backwardness. But it is the main.
For this islam cannot be blamed, but fanatic mullahs.

You need not to run after these so-called mullas and this and that to define true Islam. We have Quran and the way of Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) why we even need to look for the definition somewhere else.

Just read and Understand Quran. There is everything there

[erlangner]

Ya but after reading and understanding me and my many other friends are called kaafir here in this forum many times. We are called zindiqeen, mubafiqeen, and what names were not given, and I am sure, if we were near these brutal beasts, they will have killed us. However, then what to do with these fanatics wearing dirty turbans, locked beard, and black heart and mind.
they impose their interpreted islam, and all in this forum can observe the black and narrow mentality of these here as well.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

I tell you a true incident of how violent these Mullahs are.

My uncle gave a loan to a friend, the friend couldnt pay it for some reason, so my uncle went to a Mullah(who happens to be member of taliban) and asked him what advice can you give me to get my money back. The Mullah told him to get a knife and cutt the persons throat.

This is their violent nature, How can a Man who is suppose to be a Person of peace and guidance carry around a Ak47 infront of cameras and on photos?

Take the Lal masjid Mullahs out, once he was released a few months ago, he again preached suicide bombings is halal in Afghanistan etc and they opened stals outside Lal masjid selling Jihadi Cd's from Arab countries and Afghanistan.

[erlangner]

ya maseed you are very much true in this. They talk so relaxed about slaughtering the spies etc in FATA or other kidnapped people, and just laugh, smile as they are the real human butchers.
Ghani Khan says:

Badshahi hagho la warka, Che zghamalay ye shi zor,
Che pa las lakka qasab wee, pa khuslat lakka mangor.

[Jana]

Ya but after reading and understanding me and my many other friends are called kaafir here in this forum many times. We are called zindiqeen, mubafiqeen, and what names were not given, and I am sure, if we were near these brutal beasts, they will have killed us. However, then what to do with these fanatics wearing dirty turbans, locked beard, and black heart and mind.
they impose their interpreted islam, and all in this forum can observe the black and narrow mentality of these here as well.

I think if you quote the Quran in its real form here without changing the context and back your argument well with it NO one can call you munafiq or zindiq.


But i have seen these Neo-liberals who are misquoting Quran by quoting half verse instead of the complete one, For example you all must have seen the verse about killing infidels and jehad but interestingly these neo-liberal munafiqeen dont quote the entire verse.

[erlangner]

you should study and qoute as well Quran. ABout Jihad and killing, i have many arguments my dear, where in the present situation nothing including Quran allow us for violant jihad.
I try not to qoute Quran, otherwise how my dear, if any one dont qoute and I dont discuss it much, as not to hurt any one emotions, but then to call zindiq and minafiq, is not fair.
Otherwise, 100% population of muslim world and especially Afghanistan/paksitan will be in this category including yourself.
therefore we can discuss, quote and learn from each other without hurting the feelings.
Kho da zannay khalq khuda da de lapara paida karee dee.

[Jana]

you should study and qoute as well Quran. ABout Jihad and killing, i have many arguments my dear, where in the present situation nothing including Quran allow us for violant jihad.
I try not to qoute Quran, otherwise how my dear, if any one dont qoute and I dont discuss it much, as not to hurt any one emotions, but then to call zindiq and minafiq, is not fair.
Otherwise, 100% population of muslim world and especially Afghanistan/paksitan will be in this category including yourself.
therefore we can discuss, quote and learn from each other without hurting the feelings.
Kho da zannay khalq khuda da de lapara paida karee dee.

Agreed. Thats what i am saying that Quran doesnt teach this kind of jehad which is being presented by warlords and criminals these days

[شمله ور خراساني]

Agreed. Thats what i am saying that Quran doesnt teach this kind of jehad which is being presented by warlords and criminals these days

No. The Indiscriminate bombing and killing of civilian Pashtuns conducted by na-pak fauj is the right Jihad, right?