DEBATE: Islam isthe root cause of backwardness in Pashtun society

[Tjanaparh]

Other similar communities in the world that have similar problems as Pashtuns are the people of Caucasus. Both live in mountainous regions where agriculture is very difficult. And due to tough circumstances, people develop a very hostile war-like mentality. Feuds and violence is very common in Caucasus. Just like among Pashtuns.

We can be very proud of our culture and language. But the fact is, our culture is very primitive and backward. We all suffer from ego problems. We all have short temper. And we all are extremely stubborn.

Our language has not developed. We are by majority an illiterate bunch of hot-headed, short-tempered stubborn violent nomads.

Islam does not teach us any of this. It is not Islam that forced us to live in mountainous regions. It is not Islam that prevents us from emancipating our language.

The truth is, we are very weak.

Persians and Punjabis were just like us, subdued by Arabs. Both were subject of Muslim rule.

How is it possible that Persian is today one of the most developed and advanced languages in the world, while Pashtuns have failed to agree on a standard spelling?

Best Greetings to Everybody !!
Dear Sungar , i want to clear some point .
You mentioned the Caucasus - people iin the Caucasus are not hostile - every Caucasian nation was quiet a log isolated but this and the difficult way of life didn't make loose us a codex of honour and hospitality , doesn't matter if you visit Armenians , Lezgins , Avars , Chechens.....
It is true all of us where and are fighters even if this culture is passing - for 1000nds of years we were the division zone of empires - Achemenids , Macedonians , Roman empire , Parthians , Byzantins , Sassanids , Arabs , Khazars , Mongols , Turks , Russians , Assyrians , modern Persians - All these where trying to conquist our lands- we never had a quiet time - but specially the time get difficult with the division in influence zones of empires and world religions - before imperial division our nations even if so different in language , belief and race where defending their homeland together . Our lands were the object of admire and jeleaousy - even the ancient Persians stated ancient Armenia as a land of highest order - every Caucasian nation was very respected as warriors(and they are still as for exaple Cherkess and Ingush , who are personal guards in Arab countries , as Avars and Ossetians who represent the whole fight sports in Russia...
However I dont want to fix on Caucasian theme - onl to tell - we are not hostile - but every Caucasian respects his motherland as his mother .
But to tell one other thing - all our nations where much stronger in our traditional lifestyle without religion.
Different religous gruops ofcristians where masacring eachother - different Islamic movements were one against the other (not to tell about christian - muslim conflicts) - in Avaristan and Vaynakh territories the Russians win for example for two reasons - one was the existance of different Islamic groups that were seeing eachother as opponents - but the other that under Imam Shamil religion was brought to peoplr in a violent way - I agree compleetly with Imam Shamil that alcoholism and sexistic society are bad - but with his violent mode of war - he made loose the faith in the heart of people - as many of his own Avar people were killed by his own people.
Russians could take a big profit for these reason , even if the Avars are 10000 times more brave .

This shortly on the Caucasians .
What is concerning the language - a unique languag isnt a progress I think - dialicts should be all official - this is the guaranty not to loose even the smallest piece of your language - I think beeing close to your roots is never regressive - for example perians now have a lnguage that compared to ancient persian is full of foreign words and has a much simpler structure(for Armenian is the same case) - a to strict binding on written language made that the paper is more value than a persons word - this is qiet bad , this is the birth of hypocrisy ...

Others have other problems - that are even bad - so to go in their footsteps isnt right.
I think a religion , specially that came from outside , cant replace your origin , cant replace a netion - a heterogenious union living under one religous state cant live well - as if religion is in the hands of governmentals - it can be missused - for others national interests(like it happened to the Lezgins(who are really honest muslims).
Generally I would say religion is always a backward , as it replaces faith .
Faith is what a person believes , what connects him to his nation and history of his nation and with the Creator - Religion is the whole opposite a model of statal controled substitute .
Belief needs education - religion needs ignorance !
Sothe first point is thatpeople heave to believe and follow the tuth , the oppostie(imposed model) cannot bring somebody to the truth as he wont belief but follow without noble intentions .

[Mutakhasis]

Arevpasht you need to review your history lesson, what you said is just BS and has no factual evidence behind, please quote me the sources where you got all that jibberish from

A tribal society is always splintered, Islaam was the only way of life that brought waring tribes together into one brotherhood

You've fallen into the same senseless idea that Islaam is a religion like medieval ones that brought nothing but bloodshed

[شمله ور خراساني]

Best Greetings to Everybody !!
Dear Sungar , i want to clear some point .
You mentioned the Caucasus - people iin the Caucasus are not hostile - every Caucasian nation was quiet a log isolated but this and the difficult way of life didn't make loose us a codex of honour and hospitality , doesn't matter if you visit Armenians , Lezgins , Avars , Chechens.....
It is true all of us where and are fighters even if this culture is passing - for 1000nds of years we were the division zone of empires - Achemenids , Macedonians , Roman empire , Parthians , Byzantins , Sassanids , Arabs , Khazars , Mongols , Turks , Russians , Assyrians , modern Persians - All these where trying to conquist our lands- we never had a quiet time - but specially the time get difficult with the division in influence zones of empires and world religions - before imperial division our nations even if so different in language , belief and race where defending their homeland together . Our lands were the object of admire and jeleaousy - even the ancient Persians stated ancient Armenia as a land of highest order - every Caucasian nation was very respected as warriors(and they are still as for exaple Cherkess and Ingush , who are personal guards in Arab countries , as Avars and Ossetians who represent the whole fight sports in Russia...
However I dont want to fix on Caucasian theme - onl to tell - we are not hostile - but every Caucasian respects his motherland as his mother .
But to tell one other thing - all our nations where much stronger in our traditional lifestyle without religion.
Different religous gruops ofcristians where masacring eachother - different Islamic movements were one against the other (not to tell about christian - muslim conflicts) - in Avaristan and Vaynakh territories the Russians win for example for two reasons - one was the existance of different Islamic groups that were seeing eachother as opponents - but the other that under Imam Shamil religion was brought to peoplr in a violent way - I agree compleetly with Imam Shamil that alcoholism and sexistic society are bad - but with his violent mode of war - he made loose the faith in the heart of people - as many of his own Avar people were killed by his own people.
Russians could take a big profit for these reason , even if the Avars are 10000 times more brave .

This shortly on the Caucasians .
What is concerning the language - a unique languag isnt a progress I think - dialicts should be all official - this is the guaranty not to loose even the smallest piece of your language - I think beeing close to your roots is never regressive - for example perians now have a lnguage that compared to ancient persian is full of foreign words and has a much simpler structure(for Armenian is the same case) - a to strict binding on written language made that the paper is more value than a persons word - this is qiet bad , this is the birth of hypocrisy ...

Others have other problems - that are even bad - so to go in their footsteps isnt right.
I think a religion , specially that came from outside , cant replace your origin , cant replace a netion - a heterogenious union living under one religous state cant live well - as if religion is in the hands of governmentals - it can be missused - for others national interests(like it happened to the Lezgins(who are really honest muslims).
Generally I would say religion is always a backward , as it replaces faith .
Faith is what a person believes , what connects him to his nation and history of his nation and with the Creator - Religion is the whole opposite a model of statal controled substitute .
Belief needs education - religion needs ignorance !
Sothe first point is thatpeople heave to believe and follow the tuth , the oppostie(imposed model) cannot bring somebody to the truth as he wont belief but follow without noble intentions .

So you dont worship god but you worship your ethnicity? is that it?

For your kind information, I’ve spent some time in the Chaucasus. I know many Armenians, Georgians, Chechens and other Caucasians.

They are just as hostile and warlike like Pashtuns.

And most of the story you said, doesn’t really have anything to do with this subject. You just look for an opportunity to rant about your kind.

[Mutakhasis]

In fact the people of Caucasus are known historically to be the most hostile, that's why many people consider them to be Gog and Magog

Even in Surah al-Kahf, the story of Dhul Qarnain, it's referring to people who are extremely wild and hostile, many scholars believe it's the people from the Caucasus mountain region

[Afghan_Soldier]

Islam is not the source per se but has contributed towards our misery when it is politicised or used as mean to control. I simply do no need a troll mullah as source of my moral or religeous authority. Simply no to political Islam, sepertate state and religion. I cannot even accept people like Mullah Westernised (still scarry) Sangar as an authority if we were to live in a true elightened society. This is a braod debate, but quick answer in propotion to Sangar's direct question.

[Mutakhasis]

Not true. The main deciding factor behind the Islamic caliphates was always the tribal connections of the candidates. For example, the third caliphate was decided in a totally inter-Umayyad arrangement.

A little more detailed reply would be helpful, so we can find where your misunderstanding lies

And as usual you're post is irrelevant as I'm speaking of Islaam and not Umayyadoon

[Mutakhasis]

Islam is not the source per se but has contributed towards our misery when it is politicised or used as mean to control. I simply do no need a troll mullah as source of my moral or religeous authority. Simply no to political Islam, sepertate state and religion. I cannot even accept people like Mullah Westernised (still scarry) Sangar as an authority if we were to live in a true elightened society. This is a braod debate, but quick answer in propotion to Sangar's direct question.

Islaam is the source per se, and it's going to be Mullahs ruling Afghanistan once again very soon with an Islaamic government, and the Afghan puppet soldiers like you will have no other place to run except to your White and Indian masters

People like you have no say in our lands, as you're considered an inferior form of mindset due to you not even believing Islaam as the source of all things

[khyaal]

Islaam is the source per se, and it's going to be Mullahs ruling Afghanistan once again very soon with an Islaamic government, and the Afghan puppet soldiers like you will have no other place to run except to your White and Indian masters

People like you have no say in our lands, as you're considered an inferior form of mindset due to you not even believing Islaam as the source of all things

You really seem to be an ISI proxy.

[erlangner]

Islaam is the source per se, and it's going to be Mullahs ruling Afghanistan once again very soon with an Islaamic government, and the Afghan puppet soldiers like you will have no other place to run except to your White and Indian masters

People like you have no say in our lands, as you're considered an inferior form of mindset due to you not even believing Islaam as the source of all things

Ya destruction, backwardness, jabar, brutality, ignorance, hunger and all difficulties are waiting for afghan under your mullahs regime once again.

But there is a decision in Quran about nations>
Without any doubt, Allah does not change the situation (condition) of a nation, till the nation decide itself to change it.

When Afghan will decide to fight a decissive fight against Mullahs, then ok, otherwise, bad luck is waiting.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Ya destruction, backwardness, jabar, brutality, ignorance, hunger and all difficulties are waiting for afghan under your mullahs regime once again.

But there is a decision in Quran about nations>
Without any doubt, Allah does not change the situation (condition) of a nation, till the nation decide itself to change it.

When Afghan will decide to fight a decissive fight against Mullahs, then ok, otherwise, bad luck is waiting.

Americans are shoving big sticks in the rectum of random innocent Pashtuns in Bagram. And your type of secular ghani khan worshiping Afghans are willing to fight Mullahs.

Proves where your priorities are.

[Nadir Shah]

Americans are shoving big sticks in the rectum of random innocent Pashtuns in Bagram. And your type of secular ghani khan worshiping Afghans are willing to fight Mullahs.

Proves where your priorities are.

And what of the civilian Pashtuns killed by the Talib terrorists? This tendency of blaming US/Israel/India seems to forget that the biggest killer of Molsems is Pakistan. And don't forget, the same Americans were once shoving Stingers up the Islamic Mujahideen.

[شمله ور خراساني]

And what of the civilian Pashtuns killed by the Talib terrorists? This tendency of blaming US/Israel/India seems to forget that the biggest killer of Molsems is Pakistan. And don't forget, the same Americans were once shoving Stingers up the Islamic Mujahideen.

Taliban hail from the innocent civilians. They have no interest in killing their own.

However, the kuffaar kill us indiscriminately. Because they consider us as less human than them.

And you are thier proxy.

[Nadir Shah]

Taliban hail from the innocent civilians. They have no interest in killing their own.

However, the kuffaar kill us indiscriminately. Because they consider us as less human than them.

And you are thier proxy.

You guys give them ample reason to.

Taliban do not hail from the innocent civilians. They are a proxy of the ISI and slaves of the Pakistan Army. They massacred plenty of Moslems in Mazar and Bamyan.

[Nadir Shah]

I beg to differ.

I am all ears.

[شمله ور خراساني]

You guys give them ample reason to.

Taliban do not hail from the innocent civilians. They are a proxy of the ISI and slaves of the Pakistan Army. They massacred plenty of Moslems in Mazar and Bamyan.

You have to visit rural Afghanistan and talk to Pashtuns. Make sure you tell them you are a Marxist.

You will find out where taliban hail from.