DEBATE: Islam isthe root cause of backwardness in Pashtun society

[شمله ور خراساني]

Pashtuns were backward way before Islam entered our land. We use to be very primitive people and lived a very primitive life.

Some of the primitive and backward aspects of Pashtun society are still visible in our community.

The introduction of Islam to Pashtuns is not the reason why Pashtuns fight and kill each other over small parcels of land. The introduction of Islam to Pashtuns is not the reason why Pashtuns insult and speak evil of other clans and tribes. The introduction of Islam to Pashtuns is not the reason why there are so many hostilities among Pashtun tribes.

The Reason why Ahmadzai & Niazai have a traditional hostility and animosity towards one another is not because of Islam.

The reason why Mangal and Zadran have faught various wars with each other resulting to death of many men is not because of Islam.

The reason why Pashtuns treat women like bargain chips to settle feuds is not because of Islam.

The reason why Pashtuns robbed and pillaged Punjabis & Persians in the past resulting to centuries long lasting hostilities was not because of Islam.

The real cause of all the evil prevalent in our society is because we live in an environment where life is very tough. We live in mountainous range where we lack access to fertile lands large quantities of food.

Societies that progress, and develop have an abundance in food. Europe does not need other continents to feed its population. Holland is the smallest country in the world. Yet it produces dairy products for the whole world.

In Pashtunkhwa and rest of Afghanistan, you can barely feed the local population. Everytime Pashtuns suffered from a bad year and lack of food, the would descent from the Sulaiman mountains and go and raid and pillage Punjab. Not just their food, but even their women.

We live a very tough and harsh lifestyle.

Other similar communities in the world that have similar problems as Pashtuns are the people of Caucasus. Both live in mountainous regions where agriculture is very difficult. And due to tough circumstances, people develop a very hostile war-like mentality. Feuds and violence is very common in Caucasus. Just like among Pashtuns.

We can be very proud of our culture and language. But the fact is, our culture is very primitive and backward. We all suffer from ego problems. We all have short temper. And we all are extremely stubborn.

Our language has not developed. We are by majority an illiterate bunch of hot-headed, short-tempered stubborn violent nomads.

Islam does not teach us any of this. It is not Islam that forced us to live in mountainous regions. It is not Islam that prevents us from emancipating our language.

The truth is, we are very weak.

Persians and Punjabis were just like us, subdued by Arabs. Both were subject of Muslim rule.

How is it possible that Persian is today one of the most developed and advanced languages in the world, while Pashtuns have failed to agree on a standard spelling?

How is it possible that Urdu, which is not even a real language is the official language of hundreds of millions of people. Yet, most Pashtuns can't even agree on what kind of Pashto is the right version?

We are weak, insecure and are too scared to point the finger towards ourselves.

We seek ways to blame all of our short comings and insecurities on others.

[erlangner]

As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I would like to invite all the munafiqeen, murtadeen, zindiqeen, and kuffaar to enter into a sensible debate in order to make your rhetoric more consistent.

So please present your case.

For the Muslimeen, Mumineen, Muhsineen, Saaliheen. Musliheen... teach these poor souls a good lesson.

In my opinion you seem to be the top of the list, zindeeq in this forum. Mind your langugae. Shame on the fanatics like you. You think, you are islam. If you are silam, then people and groups like you are the root cause of backwardness of pashtuns. Otherwise islam can never bring any hurdle in development of any society. It invites to development and brightness.
Shame on you.

[tor_khan]

Much of this is familiar, but I'd like to explore a thought.

"We are by majority an illiterate bunch of hot-headed, short-tempered stubborn violent nomads."

They used to say that about the Scandavians who lacked food and lived through bitterly cold Northern European winters. Their language was coarse and their limited writings in runic-script (now long abandoned) carried no weight in Europe where Roman script is used to this day.

Vikings did not become Christian until they became settled people - this was a gradual process between 8th - 12th century, well after Islam came to Arabia.

The Scandavians managed to turn themselves around and are now leaders in terms of qualilty of lifestyle and a sense of social justice.

The state of Pashtoons can be compared to Vikings on many levels using your description, but if the Scandanavians made it, then we too needn't be presented as eternally barbaric.

[erlangner]

dont be such a crybaby. I am not interesting in your feelings. Just say your say and dont ruin this thread.

Rude and rubbish minds like you can never enter a discussion at all. You dont know the normal human behavior, and you claim to be the muslim and wakeel of islam.

Great Ghani Khan pinted very nicely zindeqeen like you.

Sta wakeel waee pa chagho, che ta skhat ao zakat ghwaray.

Or
warsha daghalta kahirat de, ta la ye tol eekhay de laray.

Shame on you.

[tor_khan]

As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu,

I would like to invite all the munafiqeen, murtadeen, zindiqeen, and kuffaar to enter into a sensible debate in order to make your rhetoric more consistent.

So please present your case.

For the Muslimeen, Mumineen, Muhsineen, Saaliheen. Musliheen... teach these poor souls a good lesson.

Which of these do you consider yourself to be?

[erlangner]

Which of these do you consider yourself to be?

He will sure consider himself top class zindeeq.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Much of this is familiar, but I'd like to explore a thought.

"We are by majority an illiterate bunch of hot-headed, short-tempered stubborn violent nomads."

They used to say that about the Scandavians who lacked food and lived through bitterly cold Northern European winters. Their language was coarse and their limited writings in runic-script (now long abandoned) carried no weight in Europe where Roman script is used to this day.

Vikings did not become Christian until they became settled people - this was a gradual process between 8th - 12th century, well after Islam came to Arabia.

The Scandavians managed to turn themselves around and are now leaders in terms of qualilty of lifestyle and a sense of social justice.

The state of Pashtoons can be compared to Vikings on many levels using your description, but if the Scandanavians made it, then we too needn't be presented as eternally barbaric.

Scandinavians did something we Pashtuns fail to do for thousands of years.
They used their brains and ingenuity to develop and progress.

Sadly, when Pashtuns think of progress and development, they go around shopping for failed ideologies and visions of utopia.

Scandinavians did not go around and shop for failed ideologies or Jewish secularist utopianism like Marxism or nihilist dog life morality of being liberal promiscuous materialists.

But Pashtuns who attend universities, and learn a thing or two, suddenly go about denouncing Islam, and promoting marxism, liberalism and promiscuity.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Which of these do you consider yourself to be?

I am a Muslim alhamdulilah and I am a mumin inshaa allah. And I aspire to become Saalih one day. So I can become a Muslih.

[شمله ور خراساني]

Rude and rubbish minds like you can never enter a discussion at all. You dont know the normal human behavior, and you claim to be the muslim and wakeel of islam.

Great Ghani Khan pinted very nicely zindeqeen like you.

Sta wakeel waee pa chagho, che ta skhat ao zakat ghwaray.

Or
warsha daghalta kahirat de, ta la ye tol eekhay de laray.

Shame on you.

Ghani khan was a degenerate alcoholic who would get drunk and write blasphamous poetry. Whatever a degenerate alcoholic said might be of any religious value to you. But to me, ghani khan's poetry is equal to a dogs barking.

[erlangner]

Ghani khan was a degenerate alcoholic who would get drunk and write blasphamous poetry. Whatever a degenerate alcoholic said might be of any religious value to you. But to me, ghani khan's poetry is equal to a dogs barking.

But you bark more loud than anyone else. I think you think people like your barking much. You dont bark, you scream.

[tor_khan]

Scandinavians did not go around and shop for failed ideologies or Jewish secularist utopianism like Marxism or nihilist dog life morality of being liberal promiscuous materialists.

But Pashtuns who attend universities, and learn a thing or two, suddenly go about denouncing Islam, and promoting marxism, liberalism and promiscuity.

None of this rests comfortably with me, but the paradox, is they actually DID.

[tor_khan]

I am a Muslim alhamdulilah and I am a mumin inshaa allah. And I aspire to become Saalih one day. So I can become a Muslih.

And I am Muslim too, Alhamdulilah.

What would make you different to the majoriy of us?

[شمله ور خراساني]

And I am Muslim too, Alhamdulilah.

What would make you different to the majoriy of us?

Who is us?

[tor_khan]

Muslims.

[erlangner]

http://www.khyberwatch.com/Sahar/2010/SAHAR_May_2010.pdf

I would like to past here this link for an interesting article, Secualr versus religious parties in pashtun politics, discussing the issue, by Nasir khattak