Durand Line is international border, says US diplomat

[abassinafghan]

Peace can be reached if you are respect each other , you gain respect if people see that you can defend your interessts , if necessary with force or politicial pressure .

but if you take a country , where people sell of their own interessts to foreigners for a very little price , because they are so tang nazar and dumb that they dont realize what they are doing to their selfes , happy being a king over their owns and confortable being a slave to another slave out of the third rowe , what do you expect ??

and please spare me with your daydreams of muslim muslim brother talk .... such a world such a state will not come true for a long long long time , therefore peoples mind must change fundamental and as a collective ...

europe went through 2 world wars , and they realized that there is enough for all to plunder , and there is no need to **** up each other , because the cost of trying to be above others , cost much more than to share what is already there ...

[BarakzaiAbdali]

BA graana, my question was how feasible is that? I'm starting to believe that those nations will never be able to stand up against regional bullies, since they are so behind in every field possible. Obviously we can write a thesis on how we IDEALLY wish the region to be, but my concern is what kind of calculus does the Afghan government have to employ to change their current global positioning? Obviously we both know that if Afghanistan is left alone, it can be self-suficient. I think you are a prime example, it's obvious that Afghans are not mentally deficient. If given the resources, Afghans can thrive. A local Afghan here recently kicked a Princeton University team's butt in a programming competition, so it's clear that if Afghanistan is left alone, many BA's can be produced. However, we know that all these regional nations have vested interests. Knowing that, can we ever expect a independent forward-thinking Afghanistan? Will we be ever alive to witness it?

Yeah but Admin Khan behind each of these regional interests exists the global interest, perhaps save Iran. Look at Pakistan whose lifeline is China and the US. The istaan states on the other side are Putin's satrapies.

Think to yourself that about 60 years ago some few hundred miles away form where your father was born lived a man named Kuli Khan Khattak. There were many Kuli Khan Khattaks, but he suffices as an example. He said to himself, why not serve the British? They give me titles, they give me lands, they give me honor, they bring railroads, they are building a brick and mortar college in Peshawar. He and some subtribes then went and were some of the BEST soldiers for the British. One Khattak bragged to me about how his grandfather was a world war 2 deceased veteran. I asked how he became deceased. He said to me... he ran into a hail of bullets to defend a British position in Africa. I did not want to insult him, but in my mind I thought "So your grandfather died for the British (one white group of people) who were fighting another white group of people (The Germans) who were both destroying the locals (Africans)." I watered that down and his response? "Well, bro my grandfathers sacrifice made it so that my family was more secure long term and thats why I am here."

These same Khattak tribesmen would go on to help the British occupy Waziristan and beat down the locals at their masters command.

At the end of the day, we have Pakistan. So yes, Pakistan produces engineers, doctors, lawyers, business folk and the medical field here is full of Pakistanis who outdo their Arab counterparts because the British left behind an English based school system in Pakistan.

But what was sacrificed in this process Admin Khan? What did Kuli Khan's partaking do for the rest of his people in helping the British hold up on the frontier in attempts to make headway into Afghanistan to create a buffer to the Russian Bear?

And mind you, the British were the masters of "nation building" yet what we see in the post colonial period is a failed state and I think you are heart broken by the state of Pashto over there are you not?

Remember, every Faustian deal has an outcome. Study the nations before who took a part of that deal. Saddam Hussain thought in much of the same way and Iraq was actually very medically and technically advanced. Yet he never saw his end coming.

Afghans have proven themselves a risilient people. To answer your question, they need no one to counter balance them against the regional powers. This is a myth being perpetuated by Karzai and Kabul to extend the presence of interventionalism and benefit form it.

Remember Admin, one day, the grand kids will read about Sherzai and Karzai and recall that these were the Kuli Khan Khattaks of Afghanistan.

With respect to education and prowess; once again, no one will build you up except yourself and maybe your father. But otherwise, in this world you are on your own and if others have some vested stake they will never allow you to have your full potential.

We look at Afghan accomplishments in the US and say, if this happens here... well why not there? Usually this translates to: If America can graduate Harvard material here... let them do it in Kabul too. Well that is all good and well, but it is not the son of the Zamindaar who is getting the diploma in electrical engineering. Much like Kuli Khan Khattak's grandsons, it is Sadaat's daughter who is founding economic ventures to bill and charge American firms for setting up shop there while also getting the ivy degree. Yar Muhammad, Din Muhammad, KohnDil Muhammad and every other person in the village is still languishing with some low hanging fruit like working in a mineral mine.

This is not regional advanacement or counter balancing; its writing one's own death warrant.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Peace can be reached if you are respect each other , you gain respect if people see that you can defend your interessts , if necessary with force or politicial pressure .

but if you take a country , where people sell of their own interessts to foreigners for a very little price , because they are so tang nazar and dumb that they dont realize what they are doing to their selfes , happy being a king over their owns and confortable being a slave to another slave out of the third rowe , what do you expect ??

and please spare me with your daydreams of muslim muslim brother talk .... such a world such a state will not come true for a long long long time , therefore peoples mind must change fundamental and as a collective ...

europe went through 2 world wars , and they realized that there is enough for all to plunder , and there is no need to **** up each other , because the cost of trying to be above others , cost much more than to share what is already there ...

I did not mention Muslim brotherhood. I am agreeing with you. My comment, if you read it was about how everyone, from the doctor to the pimp to the lawyer to the politician to the Islamist to the communist... all should realize that regionally, pooled together, central asia is sitting on an energy and mineral wealth goldmine.

The European example is also invalid because these were major powers all battling it out and they were already autonomous.

Let me get your view on Africa. You are a smart guy. I am sure that when you see a Somali and a Zimbabwean and an Ethiopian and if you hear them bragging about how they are individually from the best state; you are trying hard to suppress a laugh. You are thinking to yourself, man you all look alike you all talk nearly the same way to an outsider but your continent is being ravaged and was ravaged. Together, they had diamond wealth, oil wealth, waterways, land, low populations and whether they are religious or not, the locals of Africa serving their own interests and building their own continent is in the long term better for them and worth the short term pain. This same thing applies to central asia and the mid east as well. These countries in Africa, like in our region, are drawn up in a way to gaurantee perpetual warfare where each side buys arms and thinks that their distant Khan (British, French, Italians etc) is looking out for their best interest.

[fzpz]

Do you think a 'border' exists right now? Have you ever visited the geographic region?

I hate to say it, but Pashtuns on both sides strictly display a 'border' for Punjabis, Hazaras, Tajiks, Sindhis,etc to they can tax them both ways. For Pashtuns themselves, because you have the same tribes on both sides, there is no border or line. What the Banana republic of Pakistan, or the Mayor of Afghanistan(Karzai) says is irrelevant. Pakistan holds no weight, nor does the GOA.

Let's take Loy Kandahar region for example(Quetta-Kandahar tract of the border). The major tribes near the so called mickey-mouse border are the Achakzai, Noorzai, Tarin, Nassar, Kakar. However, the Achakzai and Noorzai of that region hold the most weight. These tribes are on both sides of the line, and there is nothing Pakistan can do to change this. What this means is this, if a Pashtun is travelling from Quetta to Kandahar, they use the phrase "Las mu azaad". If it's a Punjabai, or a Sindhai, or Tajak or Uzbek(again, I hate to mention these ethnic groups, but this is ground reality)they will tax you until you faint, and give you a hard time on both sides(Hazaras suffer the most, along with Punjabis who go to Afghanistan for construction work). So the point I am trying to make here is for non-Pashtuns, it will obviously appear as if there is a "border" but for Pashtuns, there is nothing. Major tribes, on both sides of the LoC are raking in on revenue. Again, it's like the uncle is on side, and nephew is on the other side and both are incredibly happy with this pseudo-line since it's permitting them to possess the ability of taxing those who can't pass their 'Pashtun test'. I recall them specifically quizzing, "Oh you are Pashtun, which tribe? within that tribe which tribe?, etc, etc". The reason for the aforementioned is most non-Pashtuns try as hard as they can to avoid these fees, most have spent all their lives in that region, so they speak fluent Pashto. Again, this is certainly racism and not cool, I don't condone it, I'm just telling you facts. Anybody familiar can verify what I said(although it's not necessary, since I'm speaking from experience).

No sacrifice is needed, you act as if Pashtuns are obedient to either the GOP or GOA. If you ever visit the region, you will realize they view both governments as illegitimate. Remember when that stooge Musharraf tried to set up a 'fenced' border? Remember what happened? It was Pashtuns of the other side of the line who staged protests, and eventually forced Islamabad to never bring up that absurd topic again. In case one of your Pak defence buddies think I made that up, read this:
http://www.paktribune.com/news/print.php?id=165056 . It's from a Pakistani news agency, so I hope you don't dismiss it as RAW propaganda pal.

I challenge any Pakistani official(which is why it has never occurred yet) to create a border. Las mu azad, however expect the wrath of Pashtuns on both sides. If you think there is one that exists now, then you are out of touch, most of the line has no establishment. Don't take those Pashtuns who are the children of Pak army or Afghan Army officials as representatives of the local spera Pashtuns. There is a difference between Pashtuns who are anomalies that reside in posh areas of Afghanistan or Pakistan speaking on behalf of Pashtuns, and those that actually reside in the battlefield.

Nice seeing you. Good to see you post.

Best,

Dear Lord. No I haven't been to Afghanistan (why would i want to?), but i have been to Pakistan's province of KP. There is an instant camaraderie. It would be like visiting your brother in a different portion of your own house. I wasn't taxed or searched at the Indus. Neither were the numerous Pakistanis (of all ethnicities) going between the provinces. Pretty sure i would've been if i went to Afghanistan. As would all Pakistanis, regardless of their ethno-linguistic background. Did make to the Khyber Pass. Pashtuns were taxing the unfortunate Afghanistanis trying to come into Pakistan. Chaman is the same, regardless of ones' noble ideologies they hold in their head. I don't agree with harassing and picking on your fellow Human beings (extra incentive for them being Muslims), so it was disheartening to see "borders" being enforced between Muslim brothers.

You seem to be insinuating that because there is smuggling and profiteering (along with communal links) along a frontier, that there is no "border". That would mean there is no "border" between Afghanistan and any of its other neighbors. Pakistan can fence and mine it anytime they want, and there's not a damn thing bringing up "absurd topics" would do to change that endeavour. However, there is no interest in Pakistan at dividing fellow Muslims. Most of the moaning would come from Afghanistani-indoctrinated characters. Lip-service would be paid by only a small number of individuals in Pakistan, but no, there would be mass uprising amongst Pakistani Pashtuns. The challenge would be financing and geopolitical, and the hurried call from Musharraf was just to show the lack of will in Afghanistan at curtailing what they call Pakistani incursions. Remember, if there is "no Durand line", it actually benefits Pakistan (currently).

[ډګروال]

NDS is no different when it comes to Afghan and pakistani interests than ISI.
both are playing games with their population's minds.

the way forward is simple

Afghansitan+tajikistan+uzbekistan+turkmenistan+pak istan+bangladesh = trade cooperation,building railroads connecting these countries.

TO BE CONTINUED....

[pashtanajan]

Dear Lord. No I haven't been to Afghanistan (why would i want to?), but i have been to Pakistan's province of KP. There is an instant camaraderie. It would be like visiting your brother in a different portion of your own house. I wasn't taxed or searched at the Indus. Neither were the numerous Pakistanis (of all ethnicities) going between the provinces. Pretty sure i would've been if i went to Afghanistan. As would all Pakistanis, regardless of their ethno-linguistic background. Did make to the Khyber Pass. Pashtuns were taxing the unfortunate Afghanistanis trying to come into Pakistan. Chaman is the same, regardless of ones' noble ideologies they hold in their head. I don't agree with harassing and picking on your fellow Human beings (extra incentive for them being Muslims), so it was disheartening to see "borders" being enforced between Muslim brothers.

You seem to be insinuating that because there is smuggling and profiteering (along with communal links) along a frontier, that there is no "border". That would mean there is no "border" between Afghanistan and any of its other neighbors. Pakistan can fence and mine it anytime they want, and there's not a damn thing bringing up "absurd topics" would do to change that endeavour. However, there is no interest in Pakistan at dividing fellow Muslims. Most of the moaning would come from Afghanistani-indoctrinated characters. Lip-service would be paid by only a small number of individuals in Pakistan, but no, there would be mass uprising amongst Pakistani Pashtuns. The challenge would be financing and geopolitical, and the hurried call from Musharraf was just to show the lack of will in Afghanistan at curtailing what they call Pakistani incursions. Remember, if there is "no Durand line", it actually benefits Pakistan (currently).

What I've just bolded tells me you don't know anything about the affairs of Afghanistan or of those going on in the regions Pashtuns inhabit in Pakistan.

[Shah-i-Kot]

As BA said, China's soft policy does not amount to war in Afghanistan.

China is a rising dragon and Pashtuns will be smart to be on the winning side.

US/NATO wars has resulted in so many deaths of innocent Pashtuns

The West itself has double standards and has human rights for its own citizens, but violated the rights of all others.

[pashtanajan]

As BA said, China's soft policy does not amount to war in Afghanistan.

China is a rising dragon and Pashtuns will be smart to be on the winning side.

US/NATO wars has resulted in so many deaths of innocent Pashtuns

The West itself has double standards and has human rights for its own citizens, but violated the rights of all others.

I don't think China is a rising 'dragon' as you put it. It still needs to face giving its citizen fundamental universal rights - most of its population is heavily in poverty and thus, it cannot fit the criteria of a 'superpower' at least, as of yet. it has many internal affairs it needs to sort out before ever that pedestal. The US also, is losing its title of 'superpower' though it can still hold onto it, if the right decisions are made.

However, I think in today's modern day and age. The term 'superpower' should be re-defined. I think it's the war of intelligence now than ever before.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

As BA said, China's soft policy does not amount to war in Afghanistan.

China is a rising dragon and Pashtuns will be smart to be on the winning side.

US/NATO wars has resulted in so many deaths of innocent Pashtuns

The West itself has double standards and has human rights for its own citizens, but violated the rights of all others.

ShaheKot

I think its very dangerous to assume anyone is going to rise and take the Muslim world out of its misery. The issue with this assumption is that alliances mean obligations. Obligations mean going to war for things that may not affect your own national security. It also means potentially becoming dependent on others.

The problem with China/US/Russia/Europe is that the collective we (atheist, secular, Islamist, nationalist etc) look to these "hero nations" to lift them out and sustain them economically and defense wise.

Remember, China is doing what is best for itself. Take its example on the Sudan South Sudan issue. It forced both parties to the bargaining table, which was better than the sanctions and high browed behavior of the other member states. Within Afghanistan, China has a rather beneficial policy for itself and if it garners wealth it will not enter into the ethnic conflict and strife but just strike deals.

The only time China appears to get involved is when its national security perogitives are at risk. Tomorrow if it sees Uighar separatists getting support from Afghans or a particular ethnic group then you may see a different face of China.

My point is that the central asian states, Iran, the Arabs have to stop looking for a savior or easy deals that force dependency. They have to take the hard route and internalize as much of their industry (nonexistent) as possible. Electronic grids, even if some of the building materials emanate from the outside, have to be built by internal engineers who know it so well inside out that should a Sandy like event happen, the locals know their own country.

As an example, it was an embarrassment to Iran all those years ago when an Earthquake hit in a region and they relied on the US to rescue their injured and relied on sniffing dogs from the US to find the bodies of Iranians. They are still better though than many other nation states.

For instance, Turkey gets a lot of praise from moderates for the "rise of the Ottomans" but in reality Turkey is very dependent economically on its trade and tourism sectors. And this trade and tourism is with the dominant powers. As Erdogan rises he becomes subject to the whims of NATO and his alliance partners. His maneuvers within Turkey are being actively criticized in the US in the papers by the pro Israeli sector; and the freedom of the press charges are being leveled against him.

Nothing comes without lots of hard work, lots of setbacks, lots pain. There is no easy fix. The region must stand together or they will see the, in a few hundred years the fates of Metacom and Tecumseh revisited on them. THe American Indian tribes thought inthe same way. Many of them opened up trade and developed dependency. This in turn divided them and as expansion and manifest destiny unfolded - they were destroyed.

[Shah-i-Kot]

ShaheKot

I think its very dangerous to assume anyone is going to rise and take the Muslim world out of its misery. The issue with this assumption is that alliances mean obligations. Obligations mean going to war for things that may not affect your own national security. It also means potentially becoming dependent on others.

The problem with China/US/Russia/Europe is that the collective we (atheist, secular, Islamist, nationalist etc) look to these "hero nations" to lift them out and sustain them economically and defense wise.

Remember, China is doing what is best for itself. Take its example on the Sudan South Sudan issue. It forced both parties to the bargaining table, which was better than the sanctions and high browed behavior of the other member states. Within Afghanistan, China has a rather beneficial policy for itself and if it garners wealth it will not enter into the ethnic conflict and strife but just strike deals.

The only time China appears to get involved is when its national security perogitives are at risk. Tomorrow if it sees Uighar separatists getting support from Afghans or a particular ethnic group then you may see a different face of China.

My point is that the central asian states, Iran, the Arabs have to stop looking for a savior or easy deals that force dependency. They have to take the hard route and internalize as much of their industry (nonexistent) as possible. Electronic grids, even if some of the building materials emanate from the outside, have to be built by internal engineers who know it so well inside out that should a Sandy like event happen, the locals know their own country.

As an example, it was an embarrassment to Iran all those years ago when an Earthquake hit in a region and they relied on the US to rescue their injured and relied on sniffing dogs from the US to find the bodies of Iranians. They are still better though than many other nation states.

For instance, Turkey gets a lot of praise from moderates for the "rise of the Ottomans" but in reality Turkey is very dependent economically on its trade and tourism sectors. And this trade and tourism is with the dominant powers. As Erdogan rises he becomes subject to the whims of NATO and his alliance partners. His maneuvers within Turkey are being actively criticized in the US in the papers by the pro Israeli sector; and the freedom of the press charges are being leveled against him.

Nothing comes without lots of hard work, lots of setbacks, lots pain. There is no easy fix. The region must stand together or they will see the, in a few hundred years the fates of Metacom and Tecumseh revisited on them. THe American Indian tribes thought inthe same way. Many of them opened up trade and developed dependency. This in turn divided them and as expansion and manifest destiny unfolded - they were destroyed.

I agree with your assessment on all aspects.

What I am trying to say is that Pashtuns as a unit have to start playing the world 'game' for lack of a better term- to maintain independence and peace.


Strong diplomatic ties based on mutual interests does not equate to loss of independence.

Its better for independence and peace to develop strong ties with nations who do not interfere in the affairs of another country through war than with those who do.

[Admin Khan]

Dear Lord. No I haven't been to Afghanistan (why would i want to?), but i have been to Pakistan's province of KP.

This alone verifies my claim of you being out of touch with ground realities. Since you've never visited the so called line, I would urge you to first visit the area, and then make assertions.

There is an instant camaraderie. It would be like visiting your brother in a different portion of your own house. I wasn't taxed or searched at the Indus. Neither were the numerous Pakistanis (of all ethnicities) going between the provinces. Pretty sure i would've been if i went to Afghanistan.

Exactly my point. Read what I wrote one more time, the 2nd attempt might be your lucky charm.

As would all Pakistanis, regardless of their ethno-linguistic background.

Nonsense. False. Again, read what I wrote. You've never visited the line, so I'm trying to apply some basic logic to figure out how you've reached your conclusions. Visiting the province, and the actual so called 'border' is a lot different.

Did make to the Khyber Pass. Pashtuns were taxing the unfortunate Afghanistanis trying to come into Pakistan.

"Afghanistanis" that alone sums up your experience.

You seem to be insinuating that because there is smuggling and profiteering (along with communal links) along a frontier, that there is no "border". That would mean there is no "border" between Afghanistan and any of its other neighbors.

That's not what I meant. I understand English might not be your first language, so I urge you to paste my previous response in Google translate, and have it translated to Hindi or Urdu or at least something.

Pakistan can fence and mine it anytime they want, and there's not a damn thing bringing up "absurd topics" would do to change that endeavour.

No they can't. When the idea arose, it was the Pashtuns of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, along with the political parties of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa who protested. Both sides protested, don't promote false ideologies pal. I provided you a source, and I can provide you more sources to back up my claims. It was Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa that stood up against the absurd notion of a fenced border. A banana republic is not capable of fencing a border that divides brothers of the same ethnic group. It sounds easy on a forum, but the implementation is impossible, let's call it a O(N)^N algorithm.

However, there is no interest in Pakistan at dividing fellow Muslims.

You think Pakistan cares about the world Muslim world? The terms 'Pakistan, 'Muslims' 'Care' when concatenated easily form an oxymoron. This has to be the joke of the century. Why don't you first protect our Pashtun 'brothers' from drone attacks, and then worry about 'fellow' Muslims. Pathetic. I always wondered where the brotherhood disappeared when Bengali Professors were getting knocked one after the other by your forces at Dhaka University, or when thousands of innocent civilian women got raped. Did a ragtag Mullah issue a Fatwa to drone Pukhtuns and rape Bengalis? Or is this too propaganda? Point to take here, don't drag the Islam brotherhood card in, the world knows what Pakistan is famous for. Always remember Fzpz, that you and Indians have two things in common IT, India being famous for Information Technology, and the Banana republic being famous for International Terrorism. So drop the division nonsense and let's focus on the thread.

Most of the moaning would come from Afghanistani-indoctrinated characters.

Lies. I already told you KP Pashtuns protested, including the dominant political parties of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. You see Fzpz, I know the state of mind you are in. You wish to paint this picture of one side not caring, and the other begging, but you have to realize that's false. It's the same people, with relatives and in-laws on both sides. Aside from evidence of protests(along with interviews)it's basic common sense.

Lip-service would be paid by only a small number of individuals in Pakistan, but no, there would be mass uprising amongst Pakistani Pashtuns.

That's not what happened. You seem to be out of touch with reality. Dear Fzpz, with due respect, educate yourself, and digest that article.

Malik Akbar Khan, a resident of Kurram Agency's Parachinar area told Pajhwok this news agency through telephone that the tribal leaders have already convened a meeting on this issue and decided not to let the government enforce its plan.

Malik Hamid Hussien a Shia tribal elder in Parachinar considers such action of Pakistan impossible and said that this is the land of Pashtun and without their choice no one can take any action.

Also, Haji Gul Khan Achakzai, a tribal elder in Baluchistan state of Pakistan rejects Pakistan plan on mining and fencing the border.

He said: "We do not accept the present border line that split Pashtuns into two parts and we know that the areas we reside on both sides of the border belong only to Pashtuns and the Pakistani government can not claim its ownership."

Now if you choose to be delusional, or somehow assume those are RAW agents or how it was 'fixed'(Banana republic is very notorious for believing everything against them is fixed)it's your own news agency reporting it.

The challenge would be financing and geopolitical, and the hurried call from Musharraf was just to show the lack of will in Afghanistan at curtailing what they call Pakistani incursions. Remember, if there is "no Durand line", it actually benefits Pakistan (currently).

It benefits Pashtuns malgara. ;] Which ever side is thriving, at any given moment, they eat. If Kandahar has jobs, flock over there. If Peshawar has jobs, flock over there. Not a darn thing the Banana republic of Pakistan, or Mayor of Afghanistan can do about it? Don't believe me? Go and actually visit the 'line' area.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

This alone verifies my claim of you being out of touch with ground realities. Since you've never visited the so called line, I would urge you to first visit the area, and then make assertions.


Exactly my point. Read what I wrote one more time, the 2nd attempt might be your lucky charm.



Nonsense. False. Again, read what I wrote. You've never visited the line, so I'm trying to apply some basic logic to figure out how you've reached your conclusions. Visiting the province, and the actual so called 'border' is a lot different.


"Afghanistanis" that alone sums up your experience.


That's not what I meant. I understand English might not be your first language, so I urge you to paste my previous response in Google translate, and have it translated to Hindi or Urdu or at least something.


No they can't. When the idea arose, it was the Pashtuns of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, along with the political parties of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa who protested. Both sides protested, don't promote false ideologies pal. I provided you a source, and I can provide you more sources to back up my claims. It was Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa that stood up against the absurd notion of a fenced border. A banana republic is not capable of fencing a border that divides brothers of the same ethnic group. It sounds easy on a forum, but the implementation is impossible, let's call it a O(N)^N algorithm.


You think Pakistan cares about the world Muslim world? The terms 'Pakistan, 'Muslims' 'Care' when concatenated easily form an oxymoron. This has to be the joke of the century. Why don't you first protect our Pashtun 'brothers' from drone attacks, and then worry about 'fellow' Muslims. Pathetic. I always wondered where the brotherhood disappeared when Bengali Professors were getting knocked one after the other by your forces at Dhaka University, or when thousands of innocent civilian women got raped. Did a ragtag Mullah issue a Fatwa to drone Pukhtuns and rape Bengalis? Or is this too propaganda? Point to take here, don't drag the Islam brotherhood card in, the world knows what Pakistan is famous for. Always remember Fzpz, that you and Indians have two things in common IT, India being famous for Information Technology, and the Banana republic being famous for International Terrorism. So drop the division nonsense and let's focus on the thread.


Lies. I already told you KP Pashtuns protested, including the dominant political parties of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa. You see Fzpz, I know the state of mind you are in. You wish to paint this picture of one side not caring, and the other begging, but you have to realize that's false. It's the same people, with relatives and in-laws on both sides. Aside from evidence of protests(along with interviews)it's basic common sense.


That's not what happened. You seem to be out of touch with reality. Dear Fzpz, with due respect, educate yourself, and digest that article.





Now if you choose to be delusional, or somehow assume those are RAW agents or how it was 'fixed'(Banana republic is very notorious for believing everything against them is fixed)it's your own news agency reporting it.



It benefits Pashtuns malgara. ;] Which ever side is thriving, at any given moment, they eat. If Kandahar has jobs, flock over there. If Peshawar has jobs, flock over there. Not a darn thing the Banana republic of Pakistan, or Mayor of Afghanistan can do about it? Don't believe me? Go and actually visit the 'line' area.

Well heck just the angoor ada area proves your point Admin. The Wazir straddle the border there and up until 2001 used to graze back and forth across it as powindahs. That is why they still threaten from time to time to move to Birmal and other areas where Amanullah gave them land.

FZPZ i think that your experience may have involved police. Police on both sides harrass everyone. Even intracountry police want highway bribes. Regarding the unity of the Pakistani federation - I would say thats hard to define by a single experience. I traveled with a doctor speaking the local Yusufzai dialect and we were stopped and made to pay him to continue.

Occasionally, tribes will block eachother or various clans. So if a Wazir, years before 2001 was going through Meshud area, my father in law told me, he might get stopped and vice versa and just harassed a little.

Passing via Chamaan is extremely easy.

[asad71]

What matters is not what any American diplomat thinks, but what the concerned people believe.

[Soldat_Amir]

Horribe regime. The only thing one might say of them is that long ago they had multiple powers occupying their land and through blood, sweat, and tears they ejected the foreigners. However, they have an abysmal human rights record, their oppression Uighars and Tebetians is sickening (though the Dalai Lama admitted many links and purposeful disturbances from his CIA handlers).

Look at how they treat their own people in the FOXCONN factory... like fleas without any rights.

But....but............According to Sharia......non Muslims are given second class citizenship, considered Mawalis, dhimmis, who have to pay seperate taxes from the rest of society, they are prohibited from praticing their faith freely and are banned from building places of worship....and you speak of China as a horrible regime just because they know how to handle a gang of Islamist trouble makers.

[Soldat_Amir]

I think it would be wise to recognize the border as a international border.

I think its time for Afghanistan to just accept that there is a border and not waste time on this silly brotherhood non sense.

Pashtuns are a tribal society, they hate each other, they work against each other, they murder one another, they shoot little girls in the name of houris in Jannat, they settle disputes by using under age girls in their deluded tribal system, they are untrustworthy, back stabbers, and Najib, Daud, and Amanullah realised this, had Afghanistan remained a socialist government, we could have deported all the Jamiet types to Pakhtunkhwa or other parts of Pakistan where they can beat their women wives donkeys or whatever they want.

Pashtuns, are in no position to dictate borders with anybody, we are the only people in the world who blow up our own girls schools and enjoy setting books and pencils on fire with loud takbeers of Allah ho Akber.


It would be great to make this border, seal it, and ask for correct documentation for entry, now a days, even a wondering donkey can cross it very easily, it will be a blessing for Afghan border guards to stop the flow of Pakistani Jihadis from causing trouble in Afghanistan, I think they should not fall for all that Pashtun brotherhood non sense, Taliban use this to keep its routes clear without obstruction.