Crimes of the Pakistani Army & Government

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

We are angry or are at odds with them, because I believe that their security interests and strategic needs are against Pashtuns.

I can understand that!

From what I have seen, read, heard over the years, I have come to believe that, that is not so. I firmly believe that Pakistan is for Afghans/Puhstuns (both of Afghanistan and Pakistan), and that makes me glad.

I also eblieve that, Pakistan is also for the non Afghans inside Afghanistan, whether Tajik or Uzbek or whatever. There might have been a decade or so where this was not so, but it isnt anymore, our State now supports a Govt. in Afghanistan elected by the people of Afghanistan for Afghanistan.


Inshallah, in the coming days and years, Afghanis will see with their own eyes what I am saying now. When that happens, Pakistan and Afghanistan will come much closer, like brothers, and that will be the first step towards living like the natural brothers that we are.

[єѕαρχαι]

HOpe that day will come....

[Pokhton]

the name pakistan is a true zionistic name, long live islam and azad pashtunistan.

[afghan]

Khushal there is no proof of Gurkhas. This gurkha drama of a few pictures of uncircumcised men by Ahmed Qureshi has about as much credibility as a cartoon. Second of all, media is allowed in conflict zones such as Iraq...hec they showed the bombardment live on the news networks. FATA has been severely blacked out in terms of media. I would like to see the corroboration of any of the stories of taliban casualties, even human rights organizations are highly skeptical of the numbers the ISPR is stating.

Who told you this is an old wive's tale? LOLZZ Col Imam, Hamid Gul, Ghulam Ishaq Khan, Naseerullah Babar, and even Mashar Mahmood Khan have all mentioned this. It is rather a fact known by every tom **** and harry.

most of the panjabies are not circumcised, may be the gurkha were khushal's brothers panjabies.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

I can understand that!

From what I have seen, read, heard over the years, I have come to believe that, that is not so. I firmly believe that Pakistan is for Afghans/Puhstuns (both of Afghanistan and Pakistan), and that makes me glad.

I also eblieve that, Pakistan is also for the non Afghans inside Afghanistan, whether Tajik or Uzbek or whatever. There might have been a decade or so where this was not so, but it isnt anymore, our State now supports a Govt. in Afghanistan elected by the people of Afghanistan for Afghanistan.


Inshallah, in the coming days and years, Afghanis will see with their own eyes what I am saying now. When that happens, Pakistan and Afghanistan will come much closer, like brothers, and that will be the first step towards living like the natural brothers that we are.

Wrora you are assuming this unity on the back of Pashtunkhwa. However let me rebring some reality here. Pakistan has no connection to Afghanistan, Pashtunkhwa does. Panjab and Sindh are tied to North India, both historically and culturally. They have cultural exchanges, cross border trade, cricket, etc. This is not the relationship they have with Afghanistan. It is only through the lar au bar Afghans that are maintaining this, and to be frank our division (and hence the inclusion of Pashtunkhwa within Pakistan) is propped up and has been propped up. It can not be naturally sustained.

You have all the right to say that Pakistan is in the interests, but I disagree and I have 30 years of Pakistani policy to back that up. For thirty years the policy Pakistan adopted has been negative that its ramifications are beyond comprehension. Not even the British were this brash, or cruel as the Pakistan army was. Elders of any of the areas of Pashtunkwha will tell you British were far better than what the army has done. You haev substantiate your point with some historical proof or strategic analysis. Just asking me to believe in it doesn`t make it so. Look at this way, it is your firm belief vs 30 years of hard solid strategic facts and policies Pakistan has adopted. What carries more weight?

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Oooh! look at your neutrality!!! Yes! you are not bigoted!!



Correction: They are allowed in FATA but just not in the areas where the Military Operation is going on

When the military conducts operations, it is standard military procedure to prevent the press except for their own Press. This is practiced everywhere around the world, and is currently being practiced by the Pentagon in Afghanistan as well.

Wake up and smell the coffee.!!!

First things first. I never claimed to be neutral. I've always claimed to be on the right side, which, as it so happens in this case, is not the one that you're defending.

Secondly, I precisely meant that they are not allowed in the combat zones. Even then, they're still not allowed into FATA except when on guided tours.

Thirdly, you misrepresent another fact when you forget to mention that it's standard military procedure to practice mass censorship. The BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, Fox (my favorite), NBC, AFP, Reuters and countless other European news agencies are active in Afghanistan - even in the war-torn south. That's why when Germans, Australians and Americans kill Afghan civilians, they're the first to admit it. Because they know they can't lie.

However, you inadvertently validate my argument that the Pakistani Army is deliberately keeping out the media in order to prevent them from reporting the massive civilian casualties that are taking place there. The second part of my argument was that the spineless Punjab and Hindustani-dominated Pakistani media is not even interested in reporting the truth about FATA because after all, only Pashtun civilians are dying - who cares?

Khushal Khan Bhatti.. err I mean Khattak, do you honestly not care about your Pashtun sisters and brother dying as 'collateral'? We don't even know how many have died. The ISPR says "40 in Khyber and 60 terrorists in Orakzai today" and that's how it's reported in the 'independent' media. No one asks anything. If the US can cause so many civilian casualties, do you honestly expect the Pakistanis to cause none?

[BLS_1919v2.0]

First things first. I never claimed to be neutral. I've always claimed to be on the right side, which, as it so happens in this case, is not the one that you're defending.

Secondly, I precisely meant that they are not allowed in the combat zones. Even then, they're still not allowed into FATA except when on guided tours.

Thirdly, you misrepresent another fact when you forget to mention that it's standard military procedure to practice mass censorship. The BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, Fox (my favorite), NBC, AFP, Reuters and countless other European news agencies are active in Afghanistan - even in the war-torn south. That's why when Germans, Australians and Americans kill Afghan civilians, they're the first to admit it. Because they know they can't lie.

However, you inadvertently validate my argument that the Pakistani Army is deliberately keeping out the media in order to prevent them from reporting the massive civilian casualties that are taking place there. The second part of my argument was that the spineless Punjab and Hindustani-dominated Pakistani media is not even interested in reporting the truth about FATA because after all, only Pashtun civilians are dying - who cares?

Khushal Khan Bhatti.. err I mean Khattak, do you honestly not care about your Pashtun sisters and brother dying as 'collateral'? We don't even know how many have died. The ISPR says "40 in Khyber and 60 terrorists in Orakzai today" and that's how it's reported in the 'independent' media. No one asks anything. If the US can cause so many civilian casualties, do you honestly expect the Pakistanis to cause none?

Lewanaye zalmay imagine if I started posted en masse about how many talibs NATO has killed or insurgents in Iraq. Honestly, how many people here who are backing pakista army would believe the claims of NATO or US Army in the warzones? Which is very funny considering: a) counter insurgency is basically taught in the US either by US or Israeli experts, and b) they have more sophisticated weapons therefore it would be logical that they could prevent collateral damage at a better rate than say Pakistan army.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Lewanaye zalmay imagine if I started posted en masse about how many talibs NATO has killed or insurgents in Iraq. Honestly, how many people here who are backing pakista army would believe the claims of NATO or US Army in the warzones? Which is very funny considering: a) counter insurgency is basically taught in the US either by US or Israeli experts, and b) they have more sophisticated weapons therefore it would be logical that they could prevent collateral damage at a better rate than say Pakistan army.

The Pakistani Army has the blessing of Allah Rab-ul-Izzat with them, the guidance of Quaid-e-Azam Rehmatullah Alaye and the poetry of Allama Iqbal Rahimullah. Therefore, their missiles always land on target. End of argument.

[Jana]

Wrora you are assuming this unity on the back of Pashtunkhwa. However let me rebring some reality here. Pakistan has no connection to Afghanistan, Pashtunkhwa does.

Using the same yardstick the Non-Afghans(non-Pakhtuns) in Afghanistan then dont have any connection with Afghanistan if you go by ethnic, linguistic divide.


And What is Pukhtunkhwa ?????? Peshawar is capital of NWFP (Khyber Pukhtunkhwa) which does not belong to Afghans in anyway, same is the situation of many districts of NWFP/KP. Now even if we assume the Claims of Afghanistanis over some of our areas even then Peshawar and other districts dont fall into this.


If you take up tribal areas FATA into consideration than these are NOT even part of Khyber Pukhtunkhwa so what are you talking about man.

Panjab and Sindh are tied to North India, both historically and culturally. They have cultural exchanges, cross border trade, cricket, etc. This is not the relationship they have with Afghanistan.

There is war going on in Afghanistan in such a situation how can you have cultural exchanges?? Still there are some activities going on. Cross border trade with Afghanistan is there its another matter that smuggling has surpassed it.

As far as games or for that matter Cricket is concerned than recent Afghan cricket glory is due to Pakistan. All of them have been trained playing cricket in Pakistani clubs here in Peshawar and for your information some of the players are even Pakistanis from Peshawar who were facilitated with Afghan ID cards for taking part in international games.


You are not going to do any progress without support of others be it Iran, Russia, Pakistan or India.

You have all the right to say that Pakistan is in the interests, but I disagree and I have 30 years of Pakistani policy to back that up. For thirty years the policy Pakistan adopted has been negative that its ramifications are beyond comprehension. Not even the British were this brash, or cruel as the Pakistan army was. Elders of any of the areas of Pashtunkwha will tell you British were far better than what the army has done. You haev substantiate your point with some historical proof or strategic analysis. Just asking me to believe in it doesn`t make it so. Look at this way, it is your firm belief vs 30 years of hard solid strategic facts and policies Pakistan has adopted. What carries more weight?

Honestly speaking good ties instead of hate with all its neighbouring countries including Russia, Pakistan and Iran are in interests of Afghanistan as well as its neighbours.


Pakistan is not the only one to be blamed for this policy, your beloved US is as much part of it.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Lolzz by Pashtunkhwa I mean all the Pashtun(Afghan) areas east of the durand line. If I wanted to say Khyber Pashtunkhwa I would have mentioned that. Peshawar was the winter capital of Afghanistan, and if you look at all the maps at that time, it was clearly under Afghanistan. Prior to that the Pashtun areas were known as Afghanistan by Babur. How many times do I have to bring about simple facts, that every Pashtun is an Afghan, and by default (and historically, as well as ethnically) it is Afghan territory.

Now about your analogy, well the difference is this, those areas have been historically brought under the rule of Kabul for a 100+ years, and before that have been historically linked to the other areas. Pnjab and Sindh don`t have that connection. So nice try.

I already told you that if there are any cultural exchanges between afghanistan it is through Pashtunkhwa, hence the lar au bar Afghan statement. Do you ever read these posts or do you jump to them?

USA is not my beloved, nor do I owe them anything (unlike your army). I am very aware of the US connection. In fact I have discussed it many times that one of the historic motivations for supporting the creation of Pakistan was to have an anti-communist state in the central-south asian region. One state`s crimes do not wash away the other.

BTW you just gave an opinion, the reality of their policy is clear and so are their ramifications. So either provide me proof for once and some cogent analysis or don`t bother replying. Manana

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Oh and BTW Jana, when are you going to post those links for proof for your previous claims? I have been waiting for them.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

most of the panjabies are not circumcised, may be the gurkha were khushal's brothers panjabies.

There is no need for that wrora. We can`t get personal like that with another member. Manana

[Khushal Khan Khattak]

most of the panjabies are not circumcised

So you check their dhotis? do you? I mean, seriously, you cannot fall lower than this!!! what a cheap shot!!

As facts stand, the Non Muslims of Eastern Punjab (Punjabis) who are majority Sikhs are not circumcised. The Pakistani Punjabis are Muslims just like you, why dont you check yours, if it is cut down there, then these "****" Punjabis will be cut as well, go ahead don't be shy!!

may be the gurkha were khushal's brothers panjabies.

Yes they are, Just as Sindhis, Balochis, Kashmiris, Uzbeks, Tajiks etc. etc. of all the Muslims around the world are my brothers.

But then again, I am Muslim and maybe you arent.......

And as for the non Muslims, Islam teaches us they are also our brothers. But you wont understand such delicate human behavior.

the name pakistan is a true zionistic name

And........ you get a Nobel Prize for Intelligence. How did you come by this THEORY???

First things first. I never claimed to be neutral.

Good, your'e lop sided, I get it.

I've always claimed to be on the right side,

That would be Communist Marxist Atheist. Talk about the GOOD side!!1 LOL. An Afghan can never by anything but a Muslim. Read up on our last one millennium of history, COMRADE!!!

Thirdly, you misrepresent another fact when you forget to mention that it's standard military procedure to practice mass censorship. The BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, Fox (my favorite), NBC, AFP, Reuters and countless other European news agencies are active in Afghanistan - even in the war-torn south.

Where do you live??? probably dream world!!! Wake up buddy!!!

The American military FULLY CENSORS ALL MEDIA REPORTS COMING OUT OF ALL WAR ZONES !!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://crf-usa.org/america-responds-...ensorship.html

Infact, they have very strict rules:

The Pentagon accredited all American journalists and required them to observe the following battlefield press rules:

1. No reporters could visit any U.S. military unit or travel outside of Dhahran or Riyadh except in a press pool.
   
   
2. No pool was permitted in the field without an escort, usually a U.S. military public-affairs officer (PAO).
   
   
3. No interviews of U.S. military personnel were permitted without an escort present.
   
   
4. All pool dispatches must first pass through the "military security review system." (PAOs at each pool location reviewed all dispatches and could delete or change any "military sensitive information." Reporters could appeal any censorship to the military pool coordinating office in Dhahran and then to the Pentagon.)
   
   
5. Violations of the above rules could result in arrest, detention, revocation of press credentials, and expulsion from the combat zone.

And for you information, these rules have been made even more tighter by Bush, through the Military Commissions Act of 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militar...ns_Act_of_2006
http://revcom.us/a/064/torturelaw-en.html

I suggest you read some Books, I cannot find many free book links but this one might help:

http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a783392014

or some of the material here:

http://www.projectcensored.org/
http://baltimorechronicle.com/2007/120407Phillips.shtml


Lastly, here are some more links showing how the You Es of Ay Military Censors all Media and News Corporations around the world, whether Home or Foreign:

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/oc...cens-o19.shtml

^^

US government steps up press censorship

http://www.crfforum.org/topics/?topi...document&id=48

http://en.rsf.org/haiti-us-military-...010,36309.html

http://crf-usa.org/america-responds-...ensorship.html

http://www.thepriceofliberty.org/04/04/26/lang.htm

^^

Numerous cases of American troops shooting reporters have been reported. Some were shot in the back while both unarmed and attempting to flee after having identified themselves as reporters.

Is all that ^ enough or should I keep on doing this...........


==================================

As for you calling me Bhatti!!!

I am the blood of Gheyrati Khushal Khan, my blood line is known and true, my fathers taught me not to pull off cheap stunts like the one you just did by calling me Bhatti!!! it really shows where you come from!!! from the unknowns.......... call me anything like that again and I will make sure the ADMIN hears of it, BUDDY!!!

[Pokhton]

Lolzz by Pashtunkhwa I mean all the Pashtun(Afghan) areas east of the durand line. If I wanted to say Khyber Pashtunkhwa I would have mentioned that. Peshawar was the winter capital of Afghanistan, and if you look at all the maps at that time, it was clearly under Afghanistan. Prior to that the Pashtun areas were known as Afghanistan by Babur. How many times do I have to bring about simple facts, that every Pashtun is an Afghan, and by default (and historically, as well as ethnically) it is Afghan territory.

Now about your analogy, well the difference is this, those areas have been historically brought under the rule of Kabul for a 100+ years, and before that have been historically linked to the other areas. Pnjab and Sindh don`t have that connection. So nice try.

I already told you that if there are any cultural exchanges between afghanistan it is through Pashtunkhwa, hence the lar au bar Afghan statement. Do you ever read these posts or do you jump to them?

USA is not my beloved, nor do I owe them anything (unlike your army). I am very aware of the US connection. In fact I have discussed it many times that one of the historic motivations for supporting the creation of Pakistan was to have an anti-communist state in the central-south asian region. One state`s crimes do not wash away the other.

BTW you just gave an opinion, the reality of their policy is clear and so are their ramifications. So either provide me proof for once and some cogent analysis or don`t bother replying. Manana

well said!!!

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

@Khushal Khan Khattak,

When I typed that Bhatti 'slur' I thought I'd remove it.... but then I wanted to see your reaction. There were two ways you could've reacted - you could've either said that Bhattis are our Pakistani Muslim brothers and you don't mind being one or you could've said that you're a Pukhtun Khattak and being called a Bhatti is an insult. You did the latter. I must say, I have to congratulate you, you would hate being called a Punjabi, even if I give you the title of one of their finest sub-groups. You have gone up a notch in my book.

As for me being an infidel, I must inform you that we've been Pashtuns for 7,000 years and Muslims only for 1,500. We've been infidels and pagans four times as long as we've been Muslim. A Pashtun is someone who loves his people, his culture, his language. Not bowing to an Arab deity will not change anything.

Let's get back to the topic at hand then. You're yet to answer my argument about the Pakistani media's lack of interest in independent getting access to FATA. Furthermore, even the people at large don't care about what's really happening there. It's because those Bhattis and Quraishis care very little how Wazir and Mehsud children die - whether by artillery or by 'precision' missiles.

You've posted many directives issued by the American government to it's journalists. However, nearly every civilian casualty in Afghanistan has been reported and criticized and the NATO invaders have apologized for them. It doesn't absolve them of their crimes but at least because of the presence of independent news agencies, NATO has no choice but to reveal its mistakes because if it tries to hide them, the media will expose them and that would not be preferable. The Pakistani Army is hiding the high number of civilian casualties in FATA because it wants the support of the people in its operation (which is basically a bomb and shell everything that moves strategy) and if Pashtuns find out how their brothers are being slaughtered as goats by disgraceful foreigners, they will no longer support the war.