Amrullah Saleh: What do you guys Think of This?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...830446913.html

Written by that clown Saleh:

This is the Golden Goose... the Holy Grail I have been awaiting.

I think this shows rather definitively that the PersioCentric Panjshiri Nationalists look to certain groups within Pakistan as THEIR trump card, as their way to gain their interests.

I think that with Saleh's words basically matching, point for point, and OVERTLY supporting the agenda of the former Najib centric groups in KP, it will be hard to argue that their vision will bring back Pashtun dominance.

Here are a few choice quotes:

" Pashtuns in Pakistan can broadly be categorised as the integrated, the Islamists, and the nationalists."

"Many Pashtuns hailing from the Khatak, Niazi, Yusufzai, and Tarin tribes are integrated in Pakistan. For them, the sense of belonging to a nation is far stronger than their ethnic affiliation."


"The ethno-nationalist Pashtuns of Pakistan have advocated for the rights of their ethnic group within the country. Led by Wali Khan’s family in Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Mahmood Khan Achakzai in Balochistan, these two parties maintain good ties with Afghanistan and India as a strategic fallback when pushed into the margins by the Pakistani establishment. However, they could be co-opted as they ascend to power. Their biggest gain so far has been the change of the name of the North-West Frontier Province to Khyber Pukhtunkha (which means "Pashtun quarter"). Yet their influence among the people of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) is patchy at best. FATA represents a miserable case of a large ethnic group fallen into the traps of a colonial-minded Pakistani establishment. By playing with the ego of the tribes and calling them "free" and "autonomous", the people of FATA have in reality been deprived of the basic rights and progress other societies have enjoyed."

I loved this little "gem" of an opinion:

"That said, Ahmad Shah Massoud did manage to create a pan-Afghan resistance alliance against them in 1998 when it became clear the Taliban lacked a vision beyond war and intimidation."

Oh and this one:

"When General Dostum supported President Karzai in the 2009 elections, he was branded a national figure by both the president and his slain brother Ahmad Wali Karzai. Yet when the same General Dostum - an ethnic Uzbek - switched sides, he was labelled a separatist leader and national traitor. This rhetoric reduces nationalism to a Pashtun-centric system and further alienates others from the system."

Saleh's fear of Karzai incorporating the Taliban is palpable in this article.

[Toramana]

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...830446913.html

Written by that clown Saleh:

This is the Golden Goose... the Holy Grail I have been awaiting.

I think this shows rather definitively that the PersioCentric Panjshiri Nationalists look to certain groups within Pakistan as THEIR trump card, as their way to gain their interests.

I think that with Saleh's words basically matching, point for point, and OVERTLY supporting the agenda of the former Najib centric groups in KP, it will be hard to argue that their vision will bring back Pashtun dominance.

Here are a few choice quotes:

" Pashtuns in Pakistan can broadly be categorised as the integrated, the Islamists, and the nationalists."

"Many Pashtuns hailing from the Khatak, Niazi, Yusufzai, and Tarin tribes are integrated in Pakistan. For them, the sense of belonging to a nation is far stronger than their ethnic affiliation."


"The ethno-nationalist Pashtuns of Pakistan have advocated for the rights of their ethnic group within the country. Led by Wali Khan’s family in Khyber Pukhtunkhwa and Mahmood Khan Achakzai in Balochistan, these two parties maintain good ties with Afghanistan and India as a strategic fallback when pushed into the margins by the Pakistani establishment. However, they could be co-opted as they ascend to power. Their biggest gain so far has been the change of the name of the North-West Frontier Province to Khyber Pukhtunkha (which means "Pashtun quarter"). Yet their influence among the people of the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) is patchy at best. FATA represents a miserable case of a large ethnic group fallen into the traps of a colonial-minded Pakistani establishment. By playing with the ego of the tribes and calling them "free" and "autonomous", the people of FATA have in reality been deprived of the basic rights and progress other societies have enjoyed."

I loved this little "gem" of an opinion:

"That said, Ahmad Shah Massoud did manage to create a pan-Afghan resistance alliance against them in 1998 when it became clear the Taliban lacked a vision beyond war and intimidation."

Oh and this one:

"When General Dostum supported President Karzai in the 2009 elections, he was branded a national figure by both the president and his slain brother Ahmad Wali Karzai. Yet when the same General Dostum - an ethnic Uzbek - switched sides, he was labelled a separatist leader and national traitor. This rhetoric reduces nationalism to a Pashtun-centric system and further alienates others from the system."

Saleh's fear of Karzai incorporating the Taliban is palpable in this article.

How do you say that especially when you mention some Najib-centric groups as trump-card---(you mean he is building his case through Pashtun or Baluch example in Pakistan?). And why would you want Pashtun domination. I consider that to be fundamentally wrong? Why not new social contracts in the region that would unify all through mutual need for security and prosperity?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

How do you say that especially when you mention some Najib-centric groups as trump-card---(you mean he is building his case through Pashtun or Baluch example in Pakistan?).

No he mentions your favorite people as the most the reasonable people and then screws you guys over by putting an important caveat there - showing that he is trying to undercut Karzai and undercut Pashtuncentric people and head them off before they even start. Though you may have called Arooj as having been manipulated, Saleh is trying to think 2 steps ahead of you. He understand that there are passionate pro Pashtun dominance people in said groups - he at first praises their positions and then goes on to add that if they rise to power they will become coopted. You are smart enough to read the article and do not need me to highlight or argue the specifics. I will merely say that the advise you gave to Arooj should also be applied in your own and my own life.

[Admin Khan]

He really wrote this?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

How do you say that especially when you mention some Najib-centric groups as trump-card---(you mean he is building his case through Pashtun or Baluch example in Pakistan?). And why would you want Pashtun domination. I consider that to be fundamentally wrong. Why not new social contracts in the region that would unify all through mutual need for security and prosperity?

Would you appreciate or trust it if Bush came to you or Kiyani came to you talking about mutual unity and security? What makes Saleh anymore reasonable when his take is apparent... to the point of making Dostum out to be some sort of workable and reasonable figure? You are not reading the apparent ellipses he has there. I thought you more crafty than this. You have this man meeting US congressional figures to undercut Karzai and destroy Karzai's attempt to reconcile groups and you have his attack dog Rohrbacher basically doing exactly as he whispered in his ear. Do you think that someone who wants mutual respect does that?

You cannot have it both ways where you simulataneously think Karzai is good for the Pashtun cause and then think this fool is speaking reasonably. His history and actions show what he is planning.

Look also at his FATA statements too focusing the readers energy on maligning FATA so as to ensure it is a reasonable continued target for public opinion as a reasonable base to keep hitting.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

" Pashtuns in Pakistan can broadly be categorised as the integrated, the Islamists, and the nationalists."


I do agree with this quote to an extent.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

He really wrote this?

Yes man! This is what I have been saying all along. Everyone needs to wake up.

[Toramana]

No he mentions your favorite people as the most the reasonable people and then screws you guys over by putting an important caveat there - showing that he is trying to undercut Karzai and undercut Pashtuncentric people and head them off before they even start. Though you may have called Arooj as having been manipulated, Saleh is trying to think 2 steps ahead of you. He understand that there are passionate pro Pashtun dominance people in said groups - he at first praises their positions and then goes on to add that if they rise to power they will become coopted. You are smart enough to read the article and do not need me to highlight or argue the specifics. I will merely say that the advise you gave to Arooj should also be applied in your own and my own life.

Then your interpretation of his argument would imply the same thing as for Taleban are concerned on that "co-option if given share in power" phrase.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Then your interpretation of his argument would imply the same thing as for Taleban are concerned on that "co-option if given share in power" phrase.

No he makes apparent his enmity to them and attempts to undercut Karzai vis a vis reconcilation with the Taliban. He mentions this specifically in the article. He attacks Pashtun ascendency from every vantage point. The man is anything but stupid and has sat down and flipped around the rhetoric of the Karzai crowd back onto itself. That crowed, each time when confronted with ascendcy of other groups at the expense of Pashtuns, has crowed "Do not divide us Afghans." Bu-ll Sh-it, now this guy has taken that exact same mantra and utilized it against the central government that resulted in his ousting and that is focusing more on Dostum's activities and that has bought in Rohrbacher.

He has thought through Pashtun ascendcy and pressure points and diverted the readers attention to each of these places and has done exactly what you guys were all saying Havi Sultan did in terms of "dividing brother from brother."

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Then your interpretation of his argument would imply the same thing as for Taleban are concerned on that "co-option if given share in power" phrase.

Remember, both Karzai and Saleh are mutually exclusive camps whether you like it or not. I know your dream would be to have these two hug and blend to become one super fascist with some fancy dressing style named Amrulamid Karzsaleh (joking) but Karzai himself banned Rohrbacher due to Saleh's outside lobbying for a sustained mastery of his group of folks. Pay special attention to the praise and falsity he puts onto Massoud as the pan uniter. Folks here will be hard pressed now seeing this SOB making their own arguments. Case Closed; Game over.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Then your interpretation of his argument would imply the same thing as for Taleban are concerned on that "co-option if given share in power" phrase.

And please dont tell me you are willing to let go at the swipe he takes at Yusufzao. That if anything should unsettle you.

I will sit back and enjoy my water melon now - I think the "you are trying to divide Afghans" crowed and the "ISI is _____" crowd is going to have to do some pretty fancy verbal gymnastics to deal with the fact that nearly, to a t, EVERY argument they have ever made on PF has been found in this idiot's cliff notes of an essay.

QED

[R3SISTANC3]

Wow, what timing for this piece to come out, as if he knew that such a discussion will be taking place on PF. Sad to say, I actually agree with him on many points.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Wow, what timing for this piece to come out, as if he knew that such a discussion will be taking place on PF. Sad to say, I actually agree with him on many points.

Which ones? The man is smart in that he weaves the Karzai rhetoric against itself. Did you see his advocacy points? This article has been put out there to make himself out to be a uniter as opposed to Karzai's divider stake.

Its easy for any politician, say for instance an American to say: We are all Americans.... pause (everyone gets misty eyed) and then to weave in his advocacy points.

Pay special attention to the points he makes about ALL the groups representing any set of Pashtun interests. He basically indicates all of these folks are defunct and then heaps a lot of malarchy at the door of the Pashtuns. He spares no one, not from Ahady's Afghan Millet style people to Karzai to the Asfandyaar/Achakzai nexus to Taliban

He then spins off to make Dostum and Mossoud out to be paragons of reason... how does what he say convince you?

[BarakzaiAbdali]

And he goes on to absolve the other istan states of any culpability... when it well known that Dostum's men would melt into Uzbekistan as well and gain support:

http://www.eurasianet.org/department...pp031405.shtml

"The Taliban were inclined to do this because Karimov was supporting one of their opponents in the north, the Uzbek-Afghan warlord Abdul Rashid Dostum. Karimov hoped Dostum--a former communist--would serve as a secular buffer between Uzbekistan and the fundamentalist regime in Kabul"

He is purposefully subverting the truth here and I cannot believe you guys are letting him off the hook. And no this is not an ISI tactic to divert attention. The ISI did not animate Saleh and make him write this article.

[Admin Khan]

I honestly dont know where to begin.