What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[haviZsultan]

Pukhtoon bro, I'll keep this short because I feel I am repeating myself. Edit. Scratch that its not short.

mate i just wanna make a couple of things clear your not pukhtoon so you have no right to talk about this issue, this issue is what we pashtuns call koranay mamiley.

First of all that was all just reckless speculation. Afghans are champions at playing the non-pashtun card and the Afghan=Pashtun card to deflect any criticism and gallop away like a horse the moment they are shown the mirror. Don't work anymore. I explained this here:

Read the second part:Reply to Admin Khan

Your tactic is very similar to that.

pashtuns did not throw away their land given the circumstances of the time (1893) the iron amir was stuck between a rock and a hard place (the soviet on one side and the british on the other also), also known as the great game maybe you decided to skip history class when they were teaching that lesson. it was a stupid descion made by a king who did not have the support of his people. many of our leaders that followed tried to undo his mistake, amir amanullah khan and daud khan tried to recapture the occupied territories with no success.

I hate repeating myself. Its like I am a servant serving the whims of the Afghans answering one Afghan then another. This will explain my views on Abdur Rehman Khan who is a hero of Afghans but an enemy of Pakistani Pashtuns. Look at the examples I gave:

Read the first part: Reply to Bls or Haris don't remember who

Make sure you read this. It explains fully why he is a traitor to lar Pashtuns and any lar Pashtun who says otherwise is a total slave of the Afghans. I couldn't describe it more beautifully than in that post. If the unity between bar and lar is valued by a lar Pashtun he cannot call Abdur Rehman Khan anything but a traitor. That is why I have doubts about Toramana being Afghan. He can only be a hero in Afghan eyes because he pacified the northern regions and is the founder of modern Afghanistan. Not us. He threw us away like garbage as if we meant nothing.

For your reply about Amir amanullah I don't think trying to sneak up behind the British with a dagger held high while they are looking the other way and scurrying away the moment the British look over their shoulder is bravery.

What the later leaders after the so called "iron amir" of bar Pashtuns did was fight skirmishes and then sign a treaty the moment the British were about to take an inch of their lands. What was so wrong with fighting till the last drop of blood? Why he ordered Nadir Khan to cease hostilities even before their forces entered Afghanistan? Amanullah was as selfish as Abdur Rehman Khan. He did it for himself and not for any love for the lar Pashtuns. He needed a diversion to hold onto power otherwise you guys would have kicked him out for framing his uncle.

Daud Khan... well things were too late by then. Pashtuns had been Pakistanized hate it or love it. Effectively he wasn't even messing with the British but with Pakistan, something Allama Iqbal warned him in beautiful words not to do.

quied e azam did not give the pashtuns their freedom , if you knew anything about pashtuns you would of known we were against the creation of that illgitimate state, there was this person who spent a "SMALL" amount of time in prison about 27 years his name was KHAN ABDUL GHAFFAR KHAN, maybe dedicate a chapter of your book to him, whos grandson is now leader of anp.

Your source? My source the election results in Pakhunkhwa where the people overwhelmingly voted for the Muslim League. Their agenda? To create a state called Pakistan for all Muslims. Pakhtun, Sindhi, Punjabi Baloch. Everyone.

Of course theres propaganda from the losing side but history is filled with examples when people couldn't accept defeat because it would save face with their followers... in this case the Afghans. Jaswant Singhs book reveals how many seats and votes Muslim League won in Pakhtunkhwa. Read it and enhance your knowledge

Bacha Khan was loved. But Pakistan was loved too along with its ideology. Personally I think it was illogical for Bacha Khan to stand for united India... there was nothing noble and useful for Pashtuns about it. Yet some of my friends (Pashtuns) revere him. To you be your faith to me be mine... same way to you be your thinking... to me be mine.

what makes me laugh is that a non pashtun is tell us pashtuns what we believe in.

Think about this. Maybe one day your forefathers ran off from Israel or Arabia and came and settled in Afghanistan and started calling yourself Afghan. You weren't Afghan-you were an alien, an outsider... but gradually with time you became one of them.

This is how races are built. If I was showering flowers on Afghanistan and claiming loy Afghanistan you would be calling me the lion of Afghans. lol.

LETS TALK ABOUT WHAT PAKISTAN GAVE US.

Sure. Go ahead.

yes all people in the in the world have their own culture traditions and languge now in pakistans case its up to the punjabies(by punjabies i mean the ruling elite) to decide which languges are taught in skool etc, im going to talk about pukhtoonkhwa pashto is not taught in skools the culture is not respected, go to pukhtoonkwa pashto is not taught at all maybe in a few skools here and there,

I think Luffy pointed out the problems with you westernized people or Austrailized people in your case. They don't know about ground realities as you haven't really lived in those regions. They think oh Pakistan is going to ****... lets make a circle in the sand and call it our land and be done with it. As if it would solve the problems. This is why I dislike people like Toramana who are driven by hatred and cannot think about proper solutions to their problems. By saying Punjabis are in control of education you have made a very Toramana-like comment which has seriously let me down.

As of 2006 Pashto is a compulsory subject in all schools of Pakhtunkhwa. A school that doesn't have it is breaking the law. Till grade 1-10 schools are to teach it as a language. Also a person seeking to further their knowledge in Pashto can take it as an elective in college and university. So someone who you want to label a non-pashtun has more knowledge than you. Surprising huh?

Also want to add something. Punjabi is not taught in schools in Punjab as a language at all. Think about this? Whose culture is being taken from him? The Punjabi's or the Pashtuns? Think critically for a second... is it that you are being brainwashed by your Afghan brethren. Its the same for us patriots... we think huge atrocities are taking place in Kashmir when the ground situation is much better than in the past.

it took 60 years for the province to be renamed each province had a name except for nwfp, North-West Frontier Province (this psycological war has caused an identity crisis in some pashtuns eg your parents havisultan) and even when we finally changed the name there was protest all over pakistan, so dnt you dare ever say that Pakistan GAVE US FREEDOM and respects the diversity of the 3 other main ethnicity that reside in that country,

Lol. First you don't know anything about my parents. It is my initiative to be Pashtun not my parents.

We struggled, we fought for our province's name and we got it. This is the power the Pashtun has within the Pakistani constitution and he can improve his lot within the fabric of Pakistan. It proves for sure that democracy is always a great weapon and democratic Pakistan means a strong Pashtun.

Pakistan gave us freedom while the Afghans were busy plotting against each other, or doing everything but making sure not to put up proper resistance against the British. The Muslim League saved Pashtuns from years of British tyranny and from being dominated by the Indians. Pashtuns overwhelmingly voted for them.

now lets talk about FATA YES THE JOKE OF THE CENTURY tell me one good thing about those areas except the fact that we won kashmir for you and stoped the indians from swallowing it whole, fata is still under ancient british law and only in 1996 were they allowed to vote yes i said VOTE, ppl in fuking apartheid Africa were allowed to vote by then , and still they are only allowed to vote in the shoora e majlis. fata is under fcr what is fcr : The Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR) comprises a set of laws of Pakistan that are applicable to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). The law states that three basic rights are not applicable to the residents of FATA the Right to Appeal detention, the Right to Legal Representation, and the Right to present reasoned evidence). The FCR has its origins in laws that were enacted by the British Raj in the Pashtun-inhabited tribal areas in the Northwest of British India. They were specifically devised to counter the opposition of the Pashtuns (ALL PASHTUNS) to British rule, and their main objective was to protect the interests of the British Empire.bescause the couldnt control all pashtuns they did what they were good at DIVIDE AND RULE. Over a century later, the laws continue to be applied to FATA residents by the Government of Pakistan. According to the FCR despite the presence of elected tribal representatives, the Parliament of Pakistan can play no role in the affairs of FATA. Article 247 of the Pakistani Constitution provides that no Act of Parliament applies to FATA, unless the President of Pakistan consents. Only the President is authorized to amend laws and promulgate ordinances for the tribal areas. The elected representatives thus have no say in administration of FATA. It also repeals the jurisdiction of Pakistan's courts over FATA. By inference, this also limits the application of fundamental rights to FATA. like i said joke of the century i quoted from your beloved PAKISTANI constitution.

If you have time research his lordship Babrak Ahmed Yousufzai a man who has done much in this regard. He was also my leader. He is a Pashtun born Pakistani Nationalist and leader of one of the most respected nationalist organizations in the country. My leadership role of the PNA was nothing compared to his activism. I have put my weight behind his efforts to end the stupid British laws in the tribal areas. Collective responsibilities act is retarded, the FCR is retarded and all these laws need to go to the dustbin. I think the problem with our leaders is no one knows about them which is a problem with Nationalist policy of not taking limelight.

This clause can be repealed if Pashtuns struggle against it hard enough. But of course how are we going to concentrate on it. Our attention is on declaring one Pashtun/Non-Pashtun, Muslim/Non-Muslim. What did the renaming of Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa prove? That Pashtuns can struggle for their rights and get them within the fabric of Pakistan. By 1996 they could vote. More is coming and Imran Khan has said he will repeal the FCR.

all this is a simple google search away but since you are an aspiring novelist i expected more from you but your intentions are very clear your another pashtun wannabe who wants to divide us. please continue and tell me more about how pakistan gave us freedom.

I am a realist. I want Pashtuns to succeed and prosper and I understand that the Afghans are trying to use the brave and noble people of Pakhtunkhwa for their own gains. I don't want their chances to be destroyed in Pakistan too after they have been destroyed in Afghanistan just to satisfy the Afghans urges.

Pakistani Pashtuns want to prosper and move to a better standard of living. They need basic necessities, not an idiotic idea that will gain them nothing.

lets tackle you anti afghan issues, im guessing you've been listening to too many afghanistanis notice the difference, by afghanistani i mean tajik uzbek hazara, they are not very fond of the idea of pashtuns united because that would give us an overwhelming majority in afghanistan. i live here in perth there are pashtuns here but most of em dont know about there culture or speak pashto, ive been a lone wolf trying to stand up for all pashtuns so i know how it feels when afghanistani talk crap about pashtuns they dont just mean pashtuns in pakistan but all pashtuns.

Frankly sometimes I feel sorry for those minorities. If the bar Pashtuns aren't leaving us alone how will they leave their own countrymen alone?

In their eyes our land is theirs! But their land is not ours. The moment we say Pakistani Pashtuns own Afghanistan if they own Pakhtunkhwa they start with all the Pakistani can never be Pashtun etc etc. lol.

I mean they eventually drove away every lar Pashtun on this forum. In 2 months they drove away 2 lar Pashtuns. Going at this rate they will manage to kick every lar Pashtun out and form loy Afghanistan within an year InshaAllah... all on e-world because such ideas are not supported by real Pashtuns in Pakhunkhwa. lol.

theres been a few users here on this forum and chaikhanna who were very patriotic pakistanis but over time they realised what "yaw kego keney wrakego"(litral translation : we either become one or we will disappear) means. any pashtun that sincerly loves his people will eventually realise why its important for pashtuns to be one nation.
lets not argue for arguments sake lets open our minds see through bull****....lol

Of course I am sure the patriotic Pakistanis became cute fluffy little beasts wearing linen underwear the moment they noticed the flowery words of the foul mouthed-sorry noble-hearted Afghans.

I am one of those. I loveth Afghans.

P.S No pun intended... Afghans are improving though. In the past they seemed to have nothing better to do than launch diatribes against Pakistan.

Unity for me is only in culture and language. Anything other than that we are suspicious of it... we are especially suspicious of the

Afghan: "For unity you have to understand you are not Pakistani"
Pakistani Pashtun: "We are just as the Tajik of Afghanistan is an Afghan and not a Tajikistani"
Afghan: "No way. We are hypocrites. We can't accept that."

There you go I answered your post upon your request.

[BLS_1919v2.0]

1) Learn how to read. I didn't disgrace anyone.
2) I am from Pashtunkhwa, but I don't care what side or area people are from, a Pashtun is a Pashtun.
3) Stop trolling.

[faye]

the aggression on here towards the pakistan pashtuns that i have observed, appears to have made most of them leave or be quiet.
if afghan pashtun want to convince the other side to join them in ideals, you are going the wrong way about it.

lol, shadowgovernor talking about 'debating' people, is an oxymoron.

[pashtun_rise]

the aggression on here towards the pakistan pashtuns that i have observed, appears to have made most of them leave or be quiet.
if afghan pashtun want to convince the other side to join them in ideals, you are going the wrong way about it.

lol, shadowgovernor talking about 'debating' people, is an oxymoron.

Thanks faye! you are quite clever to learn about psychology in a short time.No wonder....westerners were quite smart if we open the history.People still need to learn from west much more.

[faye]

64 years is not a short time, princess

[pashtun_rise]

hahaha...

[Toramana]

Pukhtoon bro, I'll keep this short because I feel I am repeating myself. Edit. Scratch that its not short.



First of all that was all just reckless speculation. Afghans are champions at playing the non-pashtun card and the Afghan=Pashtun card to deflect any criticism and gallop away like a horse the moment they are shown the mirror. Don't work anymore. I explained this here:

Read the second part:Reply to Admin Khan

It is not a card. It is reality. The Afghan-ness of Pashtuns is more ancient and profound thoroughly ingrained in their collective psyche and at the foundations of the historical development the end-result of which is the Pashtun reality today. Contrary to this, what is Paki-ism /Pakistan---nothing more than an artificial creation, a superficial entity, and just a label or designation that I carry on my passport and that can change any time.

Your tactic is very similar to that.

I hate repeating myself. Its like I am a servant serving the whims of the Afghans answering one Afghan then another. This will explain my views on Abdur Rehman Khan who is a hero of Afghans but an enemy of Pakistani Pashtuns. Look at the examples I gave:

Read the first part: Reply to Bls or Haris don't remember who

You are the archetype of an Indic (having converted to Islam a few decades or may be a couple of centuries back to escape un-touchability of the Hindu-caste system) with depth of thought only skin deep and with the typical trait to win the argument through vane rhetoric and platitudes. Somehow, your Indic moronic mentality cannot grasp the general principle that acts or dead of just one person doesn't make a nation's history or determine its destiny, collective memories, and the consciousness of national-self and unity. Pashtun/Afghan history and identity is much more than just Amir Abdur Rahman with countless heroes and historical figures (Mir Mahmoud Khan Khilji, Mirwais Khilji, Mir Ashraf Khilji, Ahmad Shah Baba, Amanullah Khan, Khushal Khan, Rahman Baba, Darya Khan, Amir Kror, Khlijis, Ghorids, Suris, Wazir Akbar Khan, Bacha Khan, Abdu Samad Khan Achakzai, etc. are a few to cite) not to mention a common language (Pashto), value system (Pashtunwali), geography and territory, literary achievements, and countless other dimensions of culture providing a solid and strong ground for unity.

But there is more to it than the above i.e., you cannot prove he did this purposely just for sake of money (what he dis was under duress) and even if he did that (the chances of which are not even remotely possible), cleavages based on that cannot be of any benefit to the long-run(strategic) interest and survival of Pashtuns. Rather, it would be gravely detrimental to them as a nation. The centuries-old adage is united we stand divided we fall.

But your Pako-fascism and Indic-ism is driving you really crazy and you would hold onto any thing to achieve your dream of a Paki/Ranjit Singhi nation even if that needs raping/prostituting history and robbing communities of their cultures and histories. Debunked, you have become psychic and are trying to push in one thing repeatedly i.e. Amir Abdur Rahman Khan (you have reduced the entire Pashtun history to the dead of just one personality---Amir Abdur Rahman Khan).

Make sure you read this. It explains fully why he is a traitor to lar Pashtuns and any lar Pashtun who says otherwise is a total slave of the Afghans. I couldn't describe it more beautifully than in that post. If the unity between bar and lar is valued by a lar Pashtun he cannot call Abdur Rehman Khan anything but a traitor. That is why I have doubts about Toramana being Afghan. He can only be a hero in Afghan eyes because he pacified the northern regions and is the founder of modern Afghanistan. Not us. He threw us away like garbage as if we meant nothing.

Now that is crossing the ultimate limits. A Dravidian offspring of untouchable converts to Islam comes here and imposes his categorizations on Pashtuns---Bravo---Can there be a worst act of ignobility than this? I am sorry to say it but any person who tries to be this crafty must be of low if not outright ignoble birth.

Listen moron, I am a Pashtun, I am an Afghan---I am a Pashtun a member of the great Afghan/Pashtun nation that extends from Attock/Indus to Hindukush-----and hail from Swat, KPK.

Let me also tell you that Arooj Khan is a very genuine Pashthana in my opinion misguided and I respect her as a pashtana sister. But you ---you are like a thief having broken into another body's house and trying to steal---that is called intellectual burglary.

Your source? My source the election results in Pakhunkhwa where the people overwhelmingly voted for the Muslim League. Their agenda? To create a state called Pakistan for all Muslims. Pakhtun, Sindhi, Punjabi Baloch. Everyone.

That argument has long been debunked---Say something genuinely authentic---Even Kalum Saifullah Khan has admitted at one point that she casted 15 votes in the of-quoted referendum that was heavily manipulated by authorities with approval from British governor (was boycotted by KKs and excluded large swathes of Pashtun populace ---non-Pashtuns of Hazara overwhelmingly voted though.)

[Toramana]

the aggression on here towards the pakistan pashtuns that i have observed, appears to have made most of them leave or be quiet.
if afghan pashtun want to convince the other side to join them in ideals, you are going the wrong way about it.

lol, shadowgovernor talking about 'debating' people, is an oxymoron.

Madam, who gave you the right to poke your nose in Pashtun affairs. Am I more qualified as KPK Pashtun to speak on behalf of Pashtuns or you as an alien? Show some mercy to poor aboriginals instead of posting senseless comments here.

[pashtun_rise]

Here goes again the history thing..toramana you must have visited pak...i think you should know better what majority lar pashtuns think about afghanis...right? Come on dont try to hide reality from afghans.Dont you know that maj pak pashtuns hate afghanis for bringing poverty and destruction to KPK etc?

Why are you giving them false hopes by telling them that lar pashtuns are with them? Why dont you show them the true picture and are misguiding afghanis? No wonder why afghans are so persistent in their loy pashtunistan's concept due to people like you.

I ve never passed a single day in my life when i dont hear them curse afghanis.Why dont you tell them that? Or is it that you always linger on the bullying side and forget the facts?

[Toramana]

First of all...try not to disgrace our orakzai tribe...and our lar ancestors...as is called in a post here that our lar ancestors were cruel.Lets not cross the line of decency...and lets not loose the respect that i am giving to you people....go through my previous posts...find a link and read it fully...you ll know some good facts about ur so called loy pashtunistan theory's past...and the leaders or tribes.

2nd...attacking someone through lot of posts cant change the facts that mostly lar pashtuns want to be with pak...if not try yourself.Few members here cant generalise the lar pashtuns.Try to accept the present facts.

3rd...history is gone with the wind...think about future....you people live in past /history...while lar pashtuns live in present...and think about future.

Last but not the least...so many attempts have been made...but failed.Try to know the reasons.The way you afghans disrespect pak pashtuns on one side while expect them to be with you on other side...is clear.Lar pashtuns are diverging in other ethnics...intermarriages have taken place.Lar pashtuns are not what you think are now.New generation have emerged....from all 4 provinces...You can see that once come to pak.

Better forget this great pashtunistan's idea.Make your lives worthy as a good muslim...work for refugees that are in pak...u can save their ethnicity if u wish.Work for a good and prosperous afghan state....better be with indians.No doubt indians are best in commerce.We lar pashtuns are here on pak's side to pray for you...as always.

As long as there are 50 millions Pashtuns/Afghans living on their historical land both sides of the divide, dream of your Paki nation will never come true. This is not to mention other historical nations like Baluchis, Sindhis, Urdu-speaking Indics, Siraiki-speaking Indics, who would not let their historical identities to be bartered for some degenerate entity. However, if someone has some familial relationship with Punjabis, he/she can migrate to Punjab and become a naturalized Indic/Punjabi ---Who cares---Why should a nation be divided/sacrificed for someone's whims or social circumstances?.

[Toramana]

Here goes again the history thing..toramana you must have visited pak...i think you should know better what majority lar pashtuns think about afghanis...right? Come on dont try to hide reality from afghans.Dont you know that maj pak pashtuns hate afghanis for bringing poverty and destruction to KPK etc?

Why are you giving them false hopes by telling them that lar pashtuns are with them? Why dont you show them the true picture and are misguiding afghanis? No wonder why afghans are so persistent in their loy pashtunistan's concept due to people like you.

I ve never passed a single day in my life when i dont hear them curse afghanis.Why dont you tell them that? Or is it that you always linger on the bullying side and forget the facts?

Yes, some kharyan whose businesses and demography have been impacted by the arrival of Afghans do so. There was one Hindko-speaking Kharay a leader of shop-keepers community who would walk in the bazar and say "kharyano, khazai darna Pakhtuno waghastha ---thaso walai na pasai".

Another category may be half-educated Pakhtoons educated in Paki school system and forced to be addicted to Mutalia Pakistan opium ---that is Pakistan is Allahs creation for some grand heavenly purpose.

[faye]

Madam, who gave you the right to poke your nose in Pashtun affairs. Am I more qualified as KPK Pashtun to speak on behalf of Pashtuns or you as an alien? Show some mercy to poor aboriginals instead of posting senseless comments here.

interesting.
in case you hadn't noticed i am also a member of this forum. i can also have views and opinions about anything i choose to have opinions about.

you want to push your hate agenda, feel free but get out of my face and stop pretending you are a liberal minded person.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Havi the issue of the sample size of 1 Orakzai elder; we shall give you the benefit of the doubt and assume its true can be counterbalanced. If you talk to Afghan elders on the other side of the line, and there are countless interviews available on the web; they will talk about the intrigue that nested itself in KP province as well. For instance, KP was where the descendent of the original salesman, Telai, Mr. Nadir Shah marched to Kabul from. One might note that those Afghans that feel Amanullah was subverted would point straight away at the British support and Wazir tribal support given to nadir shah. The latter though was under the guise of returning the throne to Amanullah.

So, I do not think I am trying to be a dishonest broker by asking for proof of the claim. I mean its a hefty charge - to say a whole nation of tribes in one geographic area purposefully taxed you as if you were infidels or worse, enemies. wars of taxation without representation have sparked revolutions in other parts of the world, so I take the claim seriously.

[pashtun_rise]

As long as there are 50 millions Pashtuns/Afghans living on their historical land both sides of the divide, dream of your Paki nation will never come true. This is not to mention other historical nations like Baluchis, Sindhis, Urdu-speaking Indics, Siraiki-speaking Indics, who would not let their historical identities to be bartered for degenerate entity. However,if you have some familial relationship with Punjabis, you can migrate to Punjab and become a naturalized Indic/Punjabi ---Who cares.

I have my familial relations with many nations....many tribes...many ethnics.So what? And i do visit each and every place i wish any time.But i wont let you decide for me where to go and where not to.

Now you are having sympathy for other ethnics too? Or just blowing the trumpet out of frustration? You seem someone who wish to divide pak into many nations....atleast i am getting this feeling.I ve already told you comments like this would leave you nowhere but day dreaming.My advise would be to stay away from such ideas like pak being divided into many nations...who knows there are ISI agents here . Better watch your back man.

If you love afghanistan...stay in afghanistan and help them rebuild the country....if afghanistan is established and prosperous enough ....i promise you many pak pashtuns will come ...and take afghan identity.

[Toramana]

interesting.
in case you hadn't noticed i am also a member of this forum. i can also have views and opinions about anything i choose to have opinions about.

you want to push your hate agenda, feel free but get out of my face and stop pretending you are a liberal minded person.

Yes, why not --- Going by Pashtun rules, as long as you maintain your impartiality and don't take sides in Pashtuns internal feuds, you are immune to "attacks". But if you violate that rule you are counted as a foe.

Pashtun's rights to stay united and to self-rule is very sacred and above my own interests and ego---So you can go ahead and call me whatever you want---I am satisfied with what I am and am in no need of acknowledgement from others.