What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[Admin Khan]

Manzareh this is my last reply and then i am going to scoot. I am acting like some client services guy who's job is to sit on the computer and reply to people on the internet all day long. The computer is going to do this to me if I sit any longer

Pashtuns can achieve much more. Pashtuns are people whose history and culture is unmatched. No one has as rich a history as the Pashtuns, no one can claim their culture

Pashtuns are a race whose potential is unmatched. There is no reason that Pashtuns cannot achieve what the others achieved... but for this old cultural norms need to break down... women need to be sent to school. Look at Ireland man... those guys were burning women as witches at a stake up till the 19th century man. Modern

Personally I want to see a strong Afghanistan. But since I came on the forum I am just a little worried with the attitudes of some people so don't know what to hope for. As far as the term Pashtun=Afghan is concerned will have no problem with it if it is not used as a tool to blackmail lar Pashtuns and if its meaning is not taken as Pashtun cannot equal Pakistani or there is nothing such as Pakistani Pashtun.

Manzareh you seem like a nice person. I may share what I shared with Faye and Arooj so keep your inbox ready.

As far as Pakistani attitudes are concerned towards indics they need to change. Our education system needs an overhaul and we need to stop being taught hatred for the Hindus and their culture. Its totally wrong. I have written about this in a piece for a religious magazine. However I do think Indic is too broad a term to classify the 400+ races in the Indian subcontinent.

The sooner we realize how far behind we are in nearly every field imaginable, the better. We are too busy pointing fingers at India, or Iran, who are on the other hand busy conducting groundbreaking research etc.

[haviZsultan]

Firstly, almost every president of Afghanistan has been a Pashtun, and even today Pashto is the official language and the national language along with the anthem being in Pashto. In fact, most of the ministers are Pashtun. Do some research, with regards to military; even that's changing. If you think Hazaras are dominated the government, clearly you live in a completely different planet. Also, let's agree for the sake of the agreement that no Pashtun is in the government, and that even the president is a Hazara, what does that have to do with Pashtun not being Afghan? Afghan is also a nationality, the same way there are ethnic Russians, and Russian nationals. A Pashtun is always an Afghan, this is historically and even presently true. In fact, even the Banana republic recognizes this as a fact. From Pashtunkhwa being known as Afghania, to even today revenue records and other identification methods have the label "Afghan" for Pashtuns to tick mark, because of who Pashtuns are!


You my friend are an amazing creature. God bless you, we have the next Russel Peters here. My friend, if we apply your silly, ridiculous logic then there is no such thing as a German, since Turks that were born in Germany also consider themselves as German nationals. Afghans, for Pashtuns, is the name of our ethnicity. Hazaras, and other that were born in Afghanistan are Afghan nationals. If a Sudanese is born in Kandahar, he is an Afghan national. That doesn't mean is a Pashtun(Afghan). This is not rocket science.


Explained. So now live up to your promise, and don't pull a Pakistani politician move. Historically, currently, Afghan = Pashtun. If you have any relatives in Pakistan, that are Pashtun, ask them what's in their domicle. Also, don't disown them or Pakistan for knowing about history and facts(that is Pashtun=Afghan).


Lmao

Stating facts is now blackmailing. Tajiks, Uzbeks, and others are proud Afghan nationals, residing in a nation dominated by ethnic Afghans(Pashtuns).

Now hopefully you know what ANP, and other Pashtun parties in Pakistan mean, along with your government, when they say Lar aw bar yaw Afghan. I'm sure you probably recently found out that Afghania was a proposed name for Pakistan, and that you, yourself, put the A in Pakistan which stands for Afghan. Look it up, rather than wasting your time regurgitating sheer nonsense.

I am not satisfied with this answer. I think the Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks need to be kicked out to claim that Pashtuns=Afghans otherwise its incorrect usage of the term. Once you do that Afghan=Pashtun all the way from my side baby.

Tc. Gotta go. Have to write 1000 words of my book everyday.

[Hakim Khan Urgonai]

I think the Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks need to be kicked out to claim that Pashtuns=Afghans otherwise its incorrect usage of the term. Once you do that Afghan=Pashtun all the way from my side baby.

They love their countrymen, but hate ours.

[Admin Khan]

I am not satisfied with this answer. I think the Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks need to be kicked out to claim that Pashtuns=Afghans otherwise its incorrect usage of the term. Once you do that Afghan=Pashtun all the way from my side baby.

Tc. Gotta go. Have to write 1000 words of my book everyday.

If someone is born within the boundaries of Afghanistan, he/she is an Afghan national. To claim that invalidates Afghan = Pashtun is as pathetic as claiming if your son is born in Russia, ethnic Russians or ethnic Germans are no longer German. Like I said, even if a Sudanese is born in Herat, he is an Afghan national. That doesn't, however, mean he is a Pashtun. There is a saying amongst us; Every Pashtun is an Afghan, but every Afghan is not a Pashtun. Read some historical books, or ask your government next time you swing back, and all the other things I mentioned earlier to you. Nice talking to you as always.

Take care.

[KGODB]

Calling someone a wanna be is not cool. I personally view him as an Afghan brother, if you want my honest opinion. Some of us are misled, some of us are geniuses, etc,etc. Just because someone doesn't agree with me or you, or can't speak Pashto, doesn't mean they are not a Pashtun. The fact that he is here discussing this with me, which is a process of education IMO along with learning Pashto is highly commendable.

Day tem, wis Afghan wayee?

[pashtun_rise]

Haviz, what are you talking about? There are many Pashtun/Afghan leaders who fought for their own freedom against the British. Many were not pro-Pakistan. In fact the few that were, were not freedom fighters, but had collaborated with the British on many levels and were party members of Muslim League (like the Congress, a british creation). Look you can decieve Arooj Khan, or pashtun rise, but some of us actually went through the Pakistani school system and have heard the hocus pocus history before. You are basically trying to use some half-hearted facts, rhetoric to create some new pashtun identity (ironically you haven't even told us whether or not you are Pashtun). Now come out with it and be straight forward.

P.S. this feroz guy who joined the army, I don't know his circumstances, but what respect should he deserve? Many Pashtuns have suffered because of this army. I know Pashtuns in Pashtunkhwa who dislike the pakistani army. Politically they can't do anything to them, because they run the state. Many Pashtunkhwa Pashtuns, IDP tribals went to Afghanistan during the harsh fighting between talibs and Pakistan. They were treated far better than swatiyaan, and buneri were when they went to sindh or panjab.

I am not someone to be impressed much by people usually until i see something.And yes i agree with him...for his aware conscious....n i am impressed by his work...whats wrong?

Pakistani school system doesnt matter much when it comes to ground realities...People are no kids.Lar pashtuns face racism from time to time at the hands of afghans...whats new? Does it affect us...No.

Regarding giving some1 claiming for pashtun identity..and love for pashtuns...we are honoured.Only a pashtun can understand that.

[pashtun_rise]

Acha, tumare pakistan ko aqal hai ?
Itna kharav mulkh hai, aap ka ISI itna dirty hai
Dekho afghanistan ka haal kya hai aaj ?
Bcoz of ISI
Aqal sikho mere bachey

Han aqal hai...pr tumharay indian govt ko aqal jitni jaldi ajay utna behtar hai...


Kharab mulk hai...humay pasand hai q k is ma pashtuns k b ilaqay hain....afghans ko meeti baton se bevakof bana sktay ho...humay nhi....or hm apni sarzameen k lia akhri dam tk larangay....agr kisi ne ankh b utha kr dekha.Apnay mazi ko yad rkhna chahya...


Afghanistan k lia bara josh ubal raha hai khariat? Pashto to khair se apko b nhi ati...

Aqal hi to hai...jbhi to kisi ki side b nhi latay...han izat zaror krtay hain baron ki...ISI ne jo kia...vo b sb ko pata hai....WAD,KHAD,KGB ne jo kia vo b malom hai... or RAW jo kr rhi hai vo b hm jantay hain...Sirf pak ko target banana ...aqalmandi nhi hai...Ap b apna hissa dalain aman k pagham ma....teeli na lagain...warna vo din to door nahi k afghanis ko humaray pas ana hi parayga...

[Admin Khan]

Day tem, wis Afghan wayee?

Afghan ke rakam rakam khalag sta. Baz poh ye, baaz naye poh, nor khpala poh sa.

Long story short, one should never strip the identity of a person simply because of their views. If a Pashtun loves Israel, or Pakistan that doesn't mean he is no longer a Pashtun. Instead, we should be having fruitful discussions to reach a common ground where our interests converge, and a resolution is reached. Brainwashing happens on various levels.

The sooner we realize this, the better.

[pashtun_rise]

Afghan ke rakam rakam khalag sta. Baz poh ye, baaz naye poh, nor khpala poh sa.

Long story short, one should never strip the identity of a person simply because of their views. If a Pashtun loves Israel, or Pakistan that doesn't mean he is no longer a Pashtun. Instead, we should be having fruitful discussions to reach a common ground where our interests converge, and a resolution is reached. Brainwashing happens on various levels.

The sooner we realize this, the better.

huh should not strip someone's personality? Man is that you..who is saying? No no now you are again insulting us by saying that we are brain washed....keep up the good work bro!

[Admin Khan]

huh should not strip someone's personality? Man is that you..who is saying? No no now you are again insulting us by saying that we are brain washed....keep up the good work bro!

English probably isn't your first language. Use 'Google translate' to translate what I wrote in these past few pages to Urdu or French, etc. I never said any of the above, unless your day-dreaming sis. I am kind of shocked as to how you extrapolated that. Personality? Strip?

If someone thinks India is the root cause for all the problems, and I call them brainwashed, that's my opinion and unlike most Pakistanis or Afghans who unfortunately don't have a right to an opinion back home since NDS or ISI might haunt them, I do. Also, if in my opinion I feel like Unicorns exist, that too is my opinion. Ya Allah khair.


You are a new member, and so before you generalize on someones aspirations, do a bit research on them. I've written thousands of posts, read just the last few of them and you might get a grasp as to how much I want, and aspire for Pashtun unity.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Afghan ke rakam rakam khalag sta. Baz poh ye, baaz naye poh, nor khpala poh sa.

Long story short, one should never strip the identity of a person simply because of their views. If a Pashtun loves Israel, or Pakistan that doesn't mean he is no longer a Pashtun. Instead, we should be having fruitful discussions to reach a common ground where our interests converge, and a resolution is reached. Brainwashing happens on various levels.

The sooner we realize this, the better.

I am very confused by this schizophrenic thread. What is the argument about, is it:

1) That ethnically the words Pashtun = Afghan as a synonym?
2) Is it that Bangash is being held hostage by the Pakistani government and that he is emblematic of the KP population in full with an aspiration to be appropriated into Afghanistan?
3) I.e. per 2 above, are Peshawaris and Quettans waiting for a resurrected Afghan army to of old to march across the border and free them? Or are they waiting and biding their time for a William wallace moment where they will throw off the yolk and then send dignitaries to Kabul to rejoin?
4) Is it that, similar to how a Hazara or Tajik is called an Afghan national if born in Afghanistan, that a Pashtun is a Pakistani national if he is born in Pakistan? Or was the conclusion that he cannot call himself a Pakistani national?
5) Is the Hazara or the Tajik also considered brainwashed if he calls himself an Afghan? Or should he refer to himself as an Afghan National? I.e. Can a Tajik in Tajikistan tell a Tajik in Afghanistan that to call himself Afghan is brainwashing and that either he must revert to calling himself Tajik or an Afghan national?
6) If 3) Is not true then the Israel comparison falters because Israel, though an artificial state created by importing European jews into Arab lands mirrors the partitional musical chairs switcharoo on the subcontinent - the Palestinians situation is rather different then the Pashtun situation in KP - that is the only group launching anything like Ketushia Rockets at Islamabad or its tentacles is the Baloch and or the H Mehsud group that attacked military institutions.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

English probably isn't your first language. Use 'Google translate' to translate what I wrote in these past few pages to Urdu or French, etc. I never said any of the above, unless your day-dreaming sis. I am kind of shocked as to how you extrapolated that. Personality? Strip?

If someone thinks India is the root cause for all the problems, and I call them brainwashed, that's my opinion and unlike most Pakistanis or Afghans who unfortunately don't have a right to an opinion back home since NDS or ISI might haunt them, I do. Also, if in my opinion I feel like Unicorns exist, that too is my opinion. Ya Allah khair.


You are a new member, and so before you generalize on someones aspirations, do a bit research on them. I've written thousands of posts, read just the last few of them and you might get a grasp as to how much I want, and aspire for Pashtun unity.

Btw, in the last post, Im asking simply what the argument about from those that have been able to read all 22 pages, not inferring that you are the primary argumenter.

[Admin Khan]

I am very confused by this schizophrenic thread. What is the argument about, is it:

1) That ethnically the words Pashtun = Afghan as a synonym?
2) Is it that Bangash is being held hostage by the Pakistani government and that he is emblematic of the KP population in full with an aspiration to be appropriated into Afghanistan?
3) I.e. per 2 above, are Peshawaris and Quettans waiting for a resurrected Afghan army to of old to march across the border and free them? Or are they waiting and biding their time for a William wallace moment where they will throw off the yolk and then send dignitaries to Kabul to rejoin?
4) Is it that, similar to how a Hazara or Tajik is called an Afghan national if born in Afghanistan, that a Pashtun is a Pakistani national if he is born in Pakistan? Or was the conclusion that he cannot call himself a Pakistani national?
5) Is the Hazara or the Tajik also considered brainwashed if he calls himself an Afghan? Or should he refer to himself as an Afghan National? I.e. Can a Tajik in Tajikistan tell a Tajik in Afghanistan that to call himself Afghan is brainwashing and that either he must revert to calling himself Tajik or an Afghan national?
6) If 3) Is not true then the Israel comparison falters because Israel, though an artificial state created by importing European jews into Arab lands mirrors the partitional musical chairs switcharoo on the subcontinent - the Palestinians situation is rather different then the Pashtun situation in KP - that is the only group launching anything like Ketushia Rockets at Islamabad or its tentacles is the Baloch and or the H Mehsud group that attacked military institutions.

Honestly, I haven't been keeping tracking of all the pages. I've just been randomly popping through and debunking what I, at times, feel is nonsense.

HaviZSultan claims Afghan!=Pashtun since Tajiks, Hazaras are Afghan nationals. I simply argued that based on a historical perspective, along with the current Pakistani governments perspective, a Pashtun is ethnically an Afghan. His argument was that since Hazaras also claim to be Afghan, the term Afghan can't be applied to Pashtuns anymore, a point I disagreed with given history along with other facts. Then he said Afghans sold them, a few other members debunked that.

My personal opinion, as you might know, is a Pashtun is an Afghan. However, for all he cares, he can call himself whatever he feels like. For instance, if a Pashtun is born in America, and if he calls himself an American Pashtun; that's his choice. If a Pashtun is born in Pakistan, and he wishes to be known as a Pakistani Pashtun, that too is his right an opinion and I will wholeheartedly respect his opinion. However, that shouldn't nullify the fact that he is ethnically an Afghan, nor should it come at the expense that Afghans are sell outs.

That's all brother.

[Admin Khan]

Btw, in the last post, Im asking simply what the argument about from those that have been able to read all 22 pages, not inferring that you are the primary argumenter.

I know what you meant. I usually popped in when I saw him drawing absurd conclusions. I think you know my perspective on such matters, since I've discussed it literally thousands of times before. To be frank, I was also a bit saddened to see the magic of Britain at work. Divide and conquer sure did work. Here we have people at each others throats blaming each other, without any critical analysis.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Honestly, I haven't been keeping tracking of all the pages. I've just been randomly popping through and debunking what I, at times, feel is nonsense.

HaviZSultan claims Afghan!=Pashtun since Tajiks, Hazaras are Afghan nationals. I simply argued that based on a historical perspective, along with the current Pakistani governments perspective, a Pashtun is ethnically an Afghan. His argument was that since Hazaras also claim to be Afghan, the term Afghan can't be applied to Pashtuns anymore, a point I disagreed with given history along with other facts. Then he said Afghans sold them, a few other members debunked that.

My personal opinion, as you might know, is a Pashtun is an Afghan. However, for all he cares, he can call himself whatever he feels like. For instance, if a Pashtun is born in America, and if he calls himself an American Pashtun; that's his choice. If a Pashtun is born in Pakistan, and he wishes to be known as a Pakistani Pashtun, that too is his right an opinion and I will wholeheartedly respect his opinion. However, that shouldn't nullify the fact that he is ethnically an Afghan, nor should it come at the expense that Afghans are sell outs.

That's all brother.

I think thats reasonable. It seems like this thread was just one big emotional catharsis without much contributing set of facts. I have now asked for the data 3 times about proof with respect to the Durrani monarchy taxing the KP tribes specifically at greater costs than the Ghilzai, Kharoti, Khostwalaan, etc. I would understand if these was a specific citable policy from Tarikh e Ahmad Shahi or some great text which said: and the Orakzai and Wazir and Dawar and Mehsud and Khattak etc were taxed to a greater extent... but I have not seen that. To the contrary, it appears that if anything was unfair it was unfair across the spectrum, i.e. as Haris has said, if the Kabul government of the time was bad to one tribe, they were generally being bad to others as well, indicating this was not a specific policy to piss off specific tribes.