What do Pakistani Pashtuns mean when they say Lar aw bar yaw Pakhtun

[pashtun_rise]

the fact you're attacking India for just being Non-Muslim is how a Wahhabi would think



I am respectful and tolerant of all good people regardless of what they are.

I think its your ideas that match wahhabism alot...your so called beliefs about mehdi and his army and then denial of sahih bukhari ahadeeths ...all are making me to think that you can be.I may be wrong in judging personalities...but identifying hidden wahhabis like you...i cant be wrong.You in your heart know this.

No you are not tolerant at all.You are racist and a bad critic...esp for women.
If you are that much good...why did you post insulting comments to delhi beauty? Isnt she human? Ok you like afghani women...your's choice..but why insult others?

[Pukhtoon007]

The similarity of the Mughals is with the bar Pashtuns. They imposed taxes on the south. Do you know the southern Pashtuns were paying as much as 4 times the tax the northern Pashtun had to pay. See the similarity? Just to save themselves they betrayed the lar Pashtuns and handed them over to the British. So we weren't doing deals with the British, we were fighting them. The bar Pashtuns were doing deals with the British then labelled us British slaves after selling us to the British against our will.

Its easy to shout foul after you threw your land away. Pashtuns have now immersed themselves in the fabric of Pakistan taking part in every institution. 3 people in now or never were Pashtuns. Pashtuns fought for Pakistani independence and Quaid E Azam helped us gain freedom. Only since the war on terror things have become far worse for the Pashtun of Pakhtunkhwa otherwise even the Punjabis and Urdu speakers were at his feet. Even now this day is not far because a Pashtun, Imran Khan will win the elections.

mate i just wanna make a couple of things clear your not pukhtoon so you have no right to talk about this issue, this issue is what we pashtuns call koranay mamiley.

pashtuns did not throw away their land given the circumstances of the time (1893) the iron amir was stuck between a rock and a hard place (the soviet on one side and the british on the other also), also known as the great game maybe you decided to skip history class when they were teaching that lesson. it was a stupid descion made by a king who did not have the support of his people. many of our leaders that followed tried to undo his mistake, amir amanullah khan and daud khan tried to recapture the occupied territories with no success.

quied e azam did not give the pashtuns their freedom , if you knew anything about pashtuns you would of known we were against the creation of that illgitimate state, there was this person who spent a "SMALL" amount of time in prison about 27 years his name was KHAN ABDUL GHAFFAR KHAN, maybe dedicate a chapter of your book to him, whos grandson is now leader of anp.

what makes me laugh is that a non pashtun is tell us pashtuns what we believe in.

LETS TALK ABOUT WHAT PAKISTAN GAVE US.

yes all people in the in the world have their own culture traditions and languge now in pakistans case its up to the punjabies(by punjabies i mean the ruling elite) to decide which languges are taught in skool etc, im going to talk about pukhtoonkhwa pashto is not taught in skools the culture is not respected, go to pukhtoonkwa pashto is not taught at all maybe in a few skools here and there, it took 60 years for the province to be renamed each province had a name except for nwfp, North-West Frontier Province (this psycological war has caused an identity crisis in some pashtuns eg your parents havisultan) and even when we finally changed the name there was protest all over pakistan, so dnt you dare ever say that Pakistan GAVE US FREEDOM and respects the diversity of the 3 other main ethnicity that reside in that country, now lets talk about FATA YES THE JOKE OF THE CENTURY tell me one good thing about those areas except the fact that we won kashmir for you and stoped the indians from swallowing it whole, fata is still under ancient british law and only in 1996 were they allowed to vote yes i said VOTE, ppl in fuking apartheid Africa were allowed to vote by then , and still they are only allowed to vote in the shoora e majlis. fata is under fcr what is fcr : The Frontier Crimes Regulation (FCR) comprises a set of laws of Pakistan that are applicable to the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA). The law states that three basic rights are not applicable to the residents of FATA the Right to Appeal detention, the Right to Legal Representation, and the Right to present reasoned evidence). The FCR has its origins in laws that were enacted by the British Raj in the Pashtun-inhabited tribal areas in the Northwest of British India. They were specifically devised to counter the opposition of the Pashtuns (ALL PASHTUNS) to British rule, and their main objective was to protect the interests of the British Empire.bescause the couldnt control all pashtuns they did what they were good at DIVIDE AND RULE. Over a century later, the laws continue to be applied to FATA residents by the Government of Pakistan. According to the FCR despite the presence of elected tribal representatives, the Parliament of Pakistan can play no role in the affairs of FATA. Article 247 of the Pakistani Constitution provides that no Act of Parliament applies to FATA, unless the President of Pakistan consents. Only the President is authorized to amend laws and promulgate ordinances for the tribal areas. The elected representatives thus have no say in administration of FATA. It also repeals the jurisdiction of Pakistan's courts over FATA. By inference, this also limits the application of fundamental rights to FATA. like i said joke of the century i quoted from your beloved PAKISTANI constitution. all this is a simple google search away but since you are an aspiring novelist i expected more from you but your intentions are very clear your another pashtun wannabe who wants to divide us. please continue and tell me more about how pakistan gave us freedom.


lets tackle you anti afghan issues, im guessing you've been listening to too many afghanistanis notice the difference, by afghanistani i mean tajik uzbek hazara, they are not very fond of the idea of pashtuns united because that would give us an overwhelming majority in afghanistan. i live here in perth there are pashtuns here but most of em dont know about there culture or speak pashto, ive been a lone wolf trying to stand up for all pashtuns so i know how it feels when afghanistani talk crap about pashtuns they dont just mean pashtuns in pakistan but all pashtuns.

theres been a few users here on this forum and chaikhanna who were very patriotic pakistanis but over time they realised what "yaw kego keney wrakego"(litral translation : we either become one or we will disappear) means. any pashtun that sincerly loves his people will eventually realise why its important for pashtuns to be one nation.
lets not argue for arguments sake lets open our minds see through bull****....lol

[pashtun_rise]

i thought you are supposedly in pakistan. i read that the hazaras are killed and mistreated there, due to prejudice against them and they have been coming to australia as refugees for some years now, because of abuse by taliban against them in afghanistan. the hazaras have reported that pakistanis and other foreigners were with the taliban when they, hazaras, were attacked and murdered.

i don't know what the exact truth is but those are from articles and books i have read and docos i have seen

where did it say they are only training non pashtuns? if that is the case it is due most likely, to not many pashtun being in the afghan army.
indians may be training afghan soldiers as they are going to be wanting afghanistan government and forces to help guard them if they are starting mining there.

Yeah they are true too...they were abused by taliban...no doubt in that.What hazaras reported about were talibanized version of pakis and foreigners...again not common people of afghanistan and pak.

http://prisonplanet.com/india_in_anti_taliban_military_plan.html

http://dailymailnews.com/dmsp0204/18-0110.htm

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/HH12Df01.html

Mining is just an excuse...this is just a great game to overcome the land of afghanistan.

[pashtun_rise]

I thought it was other way round with pakistan or punjabis occuping afghan land, thats something which some afghan nationalists say.

U really think pashtuns would allow punjabis or pakis to occupy their land.The land is with pashtuns ofcourse.Pashtuns are quite strict in their ideas for ZAN,ZAR,ZAMEEN.U can doubt govt however for putting all eggs into one basket of punjab... i.e facilities etc.But land...NO.Pashtuns themselves didnt do much for their rights much...like ANP today...you think they are sincere? Corruption had been everywhere.Pashtuns too are no exception for this.Yes...balochistan's land was used...that you can debate over.Not pashtuns land man.

[Haris]

My comment was directed at Sultan Khan, only the last paragraph was aimed towards you, pashtun_rise.

First of all i agree that its not a good thread.

My leaders fought as much as possible....till the treaty was signed by none other than your beloved AHMAD SHAH DURRANI.Ahmad shah durrani was a man of greed to take control of all other tribes.He wanted the glory of his tribe only....by declaring many lands under his tribe.The great KHAN/MALIK he was....may be a hero for you guys not for us.Even upto this we karlanis are fighting in courts for our lands which they occupied only officially while infact they were our lands.And yeah...the treaty was signed by him...dont forget that.He can never be my hero.

I never said that bar pashtuns were coward...all i said that they didnt help at times of crisis when real time was there to fight for foreign intervention.Where was their so called love for pashtuns then? Or is it that durrani dynasty was too much powerful to divide their power to other tribes .Better you get this into mind...pashtun tribes were autonomous too..those tribes of that time never liked the oppression of durrani tribe as well.Try to ask your grandparents about that.

Eh? Which treaty did Ahmad Shah Durrani sign?

I do not need to ask my grandparents anything.
Wardags supported Ahmad Shah Durrani. Whether it was for the promise of Jihad, plunder or unity I do not know but they fought for him and one of our greatest generals at that time, Ghazi Kamal Khan Wardag, was his frontline commander at Panipat fighting against the very same Indians that you seem to hate so much.

He is not my hero. I do not have any hero. That does not mean that I wont acknowledge his successes. He brought about the unification of the Pashtuns. No-one else has ever done that.

He did not "take control of all other tribes" as you say. The tribes fighting under him were independent & autonomous and could have easily left if they chose to and fight against him but they didn't because he promised Jihad, booty & unification. If you think Wardags or others were conquered by him and under his complete control then you are mistaken. They served him but were not owned by him. He had great leadership qualities to bring about unification and extend Pashtun power throughout the lands.

What are you talking about when you say "upto this we karlanis are fighting in courts for our lands which they occupied only officially while infact they were our lands."...? I am Karlanri. I am not fighting in any supposed court. Many Karlanri tribes are not fighting in any court. What would they be fighting for? Are they trying to sue someone who died 239 years ago? If they always had control of their land then what the hell do they have to worry about going to courts?



I never said that you said that Bar Pashtuns are cowards so I don't know why you would mention this.

As I said, many tribes worked with the Durranis for the greater good overlooking their own petty tribal interests. They worked for unification. They worked to further the cause of Islam. I thought you would have supported Jihad...especially against Indians...



If Pakistanis hate him so much, why did they name a rocket after him? Were there protests among Pakistani Pashtuns about that? Or is it only convenient to hate him when Pakistani national pride (which sadly is so often in the form of an extravagent military) isn't at stake?

Later on...the durand line was accepted in 1919,1921 ...by afghan govt.Where was their love of pashtuns then? Why claiming now when pashtuns of pak gained more facilities of education etc...? Isnt this hypocricy? I still love those pashtuns more (both lar n bar) who try their best to educate their people....even if they have to migrate.Yes i respect them...i respect those tribes who didnt oppressed others and kept in peace with each other...like karlani tribes...to a certain extent,yousafzai etc..

You think they wanted to? The whole reason that the Durrand line was reaffirmed was because the Afghan government was fighting the British to reclaim the land of their brothers.
They obviously could not compete. They had outdated weapons, no airforce and were up against an empire. History was cruel to them. To say that they had no "love of Pashtuns" is frankly disrespectful.

Afghans did not start claiming now. They were always claiming. Their land was illegitimately taken from them. The Durrand still remains officially unrecognised by Afghan governments.

The only difference now is that the Afghans who were separated have over time been forced to adapt to the society of their new occupiers and the inheritors of those occupiers. Many became proud to be 'Pakistani' (i.e. yourself and haviZsultan).

I do not know if those people want to reunite with their brothers again. Most likely, the majority do not. But to say that historically there was no wish for reunification, no wish to rejoin seperated tribes, no love for eachother by the masses is completely false.

I dont deny the truth that wardag tribes fought against british....yes i accept that.But when did i say i like british govt or paki govt?

You misunderstand, my post was not about the glorification of Wardags. I mentioned Wardags only because I know relatively much about them and can use them to back up my point. I could just as easily have named any other Bar Pashtun tribe. Of course Wardags fought against the British. So did many other Bar Pashtuns.

I never said you liked the British government or the Pakistani government.

Regarding your view of consultation...yes thats also true...many tribes were not taken into consideration regarding consultation of so called division or shifting loyalities.That i also accept that whoever did that were a shame to us...

Thank you for accepting this basic fact. I hope that HaviZsultan does so too and refrains from insulting my ancestors again.

Now if you question my love for pashtun people or me being a pashtun...i damn care.I am not here to ridicule the past or question their loyality...but i am surely here to make pashtuns in general understand that they need to understand their enemies and stay away from so called afflictions of dajjal...which they are misunderstood as friends.(Some pashtuns think that).

I never questioned your love for Pashtun people or you being a Pashtun.

If you want to love the 'Fortress of Islam' that is Pakistan then go ahead. I have no problem with that. That is your right and I do not get involved in such discussions because people tend to use circular logic and I hate long drawn-out fruitless debate.

I just don't want to see people spreading ignorance about our (both Lar & Bar) ancestors (<-- referring to HaviZsultan).

[pashtun_rise]

Many presumptions there...I don't hate Punjabis nor do I blame average Pakistanis, neither am I from Afghanistan. I am a fellow Pakistani sister.

As for Pakistan and present day Afghanistan, both are a mess created by the British. Pakistani Pashtuns, majority are ignorant about their past and history, yet those who are educated, among them a nationalist resurgence that aspire towards their Afghan identity - in contrast to a Pakistani/Indic one - is taking place. I know many Pakistanis have a hard time dealing with this but the unification of Pashtun is inevitable, it's just a matter of time and education.

Reason being, there is no real/valid historic, scientific, geographic, or religious reason for this division. The only one there ever was is the one perpetuated by the British and their stooges which was created to weaken the Muslims of the region. This division is haram with a capital H, in fact I will go as far as to say that those who support it are conspiring against Islam, not only using standard Islamic justice but also because of the reasoning and history behind this division.

Of course there should be no malice towards Punjabis, or any other non-Pashtun Pakistanis because the average man had no say in this. This is a game played by the elite and their pet dogs. My wish is that both nations figure out a peaceful solution to this.

As for India, Pakistanis have this Hindu-phobia which steams from their insecurity and inferiority complex. This is the reason why haviZ probably adopted Pashtun identity vs. the alternative i.e. Punjabi/Mahajir/Sindhi etc. all of which are Indian in respect. You as a Pashtun should realize that this is a personal matter between these two Indic brethren, and stay away from Hindu-phobia. This Hindu-phobia also gives the current ruling military janta power, without the fear of big bad evil vegetarian Hindus Pakistani army has no role in politics.

The republicans in the US use Islam and Muslims to get votes, the military in Pakistan use India and Hindus to remain in power (a reason why Pakistanis and US republicans always get along - same nature creatures).

Just look at what this Hindu-phobia turned Pakistan into. Behind every rock a RAW agent is hiding, paranoia every where and 20 hrs no bijlee while the Indians are aiming for the moon. All this Hindu and Indian-phobia has resulted in nothing but suffering for Pakistan. What has Pakistan accomplished with all the Indian bashing and what state is it in compared to India? You guys are beating a dead horse, time to realize that something is seriously wrong with that mantra and change is necessary.

India is no longer a regional power but a global power. Afghanistan has no choice but to shake hands with it. If Pakistan can shake hands with Americans, and the Chinese, both with an extensive record slaughtering Muslims, then why is it a problem for Afghanistan to shake hands with a country where Muslims are the second largest majority and have a great influence over politics?

Pakistani arguments dont make sense. It's like watching a horror movie, a twilight show.

I agree most of what you said in start...the mess thats been created etc...I also agree that hindu phobia is common in pak...but where there s a smoke...there ll be a fire somewhere.Indian govt is not innocent.You cant prove that.I am not hindu phobic...but a realistic person.I see things with reasons...i wouldnt have bothered them if not encountered them in OUR areas.I was like you guys once...neutral...turn a blind eye to everything...I am still neutral but with a sense of caution...As far as pak politics are concerned...everyone knows it.Its crystal clear.But indian govt and its atrocities are also not hidden.May be you need to have a look at it.


Pak's arguments dont make sense becoz you dont like pak...it may be your subjective thinkings...thats your choice.I like peace loving indians but not wicked govt of india.Thats my thinking.

[pashtun_rise]

[QUOTE=Haris;620776]My comment was directed at Sultan Khan, only the last paragraph was aimed towards you, pashtun_rise.



Eh? Which treaty did Ahmad Shah Durrani sign?QOUTE

Sorry i mistakenly wrote ahmad shah durrani's name....it was abdur Rehman who did the durand line treaty.But it was Ahmad shah durrani in the first place who gave such power to him that he even oerturned against him...afterall they were of same tribe.That iron man brought a good deal of destruction.


I do not need to ask my grandparents anything.
Wardags supported Ahmad Shah Durrani. Whether it was for the promise of Jihad, plunder or unity I do not know but they fought for him and one of our greatest generals at that time, Ghazi Kamal Khan Wardag, was his frontline commander at Panipat fighting against the very same Indians that you seem to hate so much.QOUTE

Question answered above.I hate this iron man.

He is not my hero. I do not have any hero. That does not mean that I wont acknowledge his successes. He brought about the unification of the Pashtuns. No-one else has done that.QOUTE


Unification at the cost of some tribes? Unification theory credit goes to khushal khan.Ahmad shah was not perfect either....but not bad either.So in my books...not bad.

He did not "take control of all other tribes" as you say. The tribes fighting under him were independent & autonomous and could have easily left if they chose to and fight against him but they didn't because he promised Jihad, booty & unification. If you think Wardags or others were conquered by him and under his complete control then you are mistaken. They served him but were not owned by him. He had great leadership qualities to bring about unification and extend Pashtun power throughout the lands.QUOTE


Who said the tribes were under his control..i said they were trying to oppress...through their KHANI...e.g the land adjacent to them were claimed by them officially but tribes unaware were living there.They came to know later on when got notices.Courts of peshawer and some distts are full with this record.May be not your family wd ve come across with this.But we have.

What are you talking about when you say "upto this we karlanis are fighting in courts for our lands which they occupied only officially while infact they were our lands."...? I am Karlanri. I am not fighting in any supposed court. Many Karlanri tribes are not fighting in any court. What would they be fighting for? Are they trying to sue someone who died 239 years ago? If they always had control of their land then what the hell do they have to worry about going to courts?QOUTE


Ahmad shah durrani is dead years ago...but yes his legacy had left residual effects.His tribe was one of the major tribe at that time...not only population wise but also education etc.They did shown khani.Many court cases have been settled.N we have taken back majority of our lands.


I never said that you said that Bar Pashtuns are cowards so I don't know why you would mention this.
As I said, many tribes worked with the Durranis for the greater good overlooking their own petty tribal interests. They worked for unification. They worked to further the cause of Islam. I thought you would have supported Jihad...especially against Indians...QUOTE


Durranis mostly worked for them.People mock about their so called KHANI. N what jehad? You think i am some so called jehadist that wahhabis have creayed so far? I believe in unification of pashtuns alongwith other muslim ummah...as destined in ahadeeths...the prophecies of mohammad pbuh...many these prophecies were kept hidden or forged to hide the truth from pashtuns esp.Their leadership at end times is prophecised alongwith prophet isa (jesus) pbuh....not only in islam but also in rest of 2 scriptures.This is what i am here for.I was thinking to make a thread about that..many pashtuns dont know these prophecies and the islamic knowledge forged.But i didnt get time since this thread was there.All i want is to clear the misconceptions b/w pashtuns and non pashtuns muslims...coz its the pashtuns of end times who are gonna be the frontline army of jesus pbuh...the signs are coming ahead soon and here you guys are fighting for ethnicity.Pahtuns are destined to rule till jeruselam....jews know this yet doing their genocides...while pashtuns are sleeping.As end time leaders...we pashtuns need to love humans in general...not become racist.


If Pakistanis hate him so much, why did they name a rocket after him? Were there protests among Pakistani Pashtuns about that? Or is it only convenient to hate him when Pakistani national pride (which sadly is so often in the form of an extravagent military) isn't at stake? QOUTE


Because pakis love pashtuns...i ve witnessed their love for pashtuns.


You think they wanted to? The whole reason that the Durrand line was
reaffirmed was because the Afghan government was fighting the British to reclaim the land of their brothers.
They obviously could not compete. They had outdated weapons, no airforce and were up against an empire. History was cruel to them. To say that they had no "love of Pashtuns" is frankly disrespectful. QUOTE


Ok accept that they were obliged....but not iron ameer.He was greedy.U can praise ahmad shah durrani...for atleast he did much for islam.I like him for that too.


Afghans did not start claiming now. They were always claiming. Their land was illegitimately taken from them. The Durrand still remains officially unrecognised by Afghan governments.QUOTE


I too agree.

The only difference now is that the Afghans who were separated have over time been forced to adapt to the society of their new occupiers and the inheritors of those occupiers. Many became proud to be 'Pakistani' (i.e. yourself and haviZsultan).QUOTE

Paki ppl in general are our brothers in faith...not occupiers.Blame the govt and army.Haviz is a good person who loves pashtuns...N Allah knows best.

I do not know if those people want to reunite with their brothers again. Most likely, the majority do not. But to say that historically there was no wish for reunification, no wish to rejoin seperated tribes, no love for eachother by the masses is completely false.QOUTE

I didnt deny that...We like to reunite....as per prophecies...we will inshALLAH...they ll rule the world....n so will people see justice in world.This army ll be of pious just and of the best mankind...not like cruel talibs etc.They ll have no power...or weapon except faith..angels will accompany them and strike their enemies.

You misunderstand, my post was not about the glorification of Wardags. I mentioned Wardags only because I know relatively much about them and can use them to back up my point. I could just as easily have named any other Bar Pashtun tribe. Of course Wardags fought against the British. So did many other Bar Pashtuns.QUOTE


ok...

I never said you liked the British government or the Pakistani government.QUOTE

Thanks!

Thank you for accepting this basic fact. I hope that HaviZsultan does so too and refrains from insulting my ancestors again.QUOTE

He is not insulting...just quoting the facts he know.Clarify things to him with respect...afterall he is human...he ll know...disrespecting someone ll only bring clashes in hearts.

I never questioned your love for Pashtun people or you being a Pashtun.QUOTE

Thanks again..


If you want to love the 'Fortress of Islam' that is Pakistan then go ahead. I have no problem with that. That is your right and I do not get involved in such discussions because people tend to use circular logic and I hate long drawn-out fruitless debate.QUOTE


Fortress of islam is not pak...but are those people who are "GHURBA"..WHO HAVE TAQWA in their hearts.People ll recognise them in end times.

I just don't want to see people spreading ignorance about our (both Lar & Bar) ancestors (<-- referring to HaviZsultan).QUOTE


No one is...people are concerned for future...they want our love not hatred...dont doubt that..

[JattApache]

" pakistani " pashtuns and " afghani " pashtuns share the same language , the same culture, the same history.

I can understand the division of punjab ( between sikhs hindus and muslims )
But i will never understand the division between the pashtuns,
The pashtuns share the same religion, they share pashtunwali, they should be united, they are ethnically same, and they have the same tribal organization.

Kam se kam, one day, pashtuns will be united, obviously , there are so many similarities between them.

But I think that the indics pakistanis are trying to do a " DESIfication " of the pashtuns living in pakistan, they are brainwashing them, nowadays many pakistani pashtuns hate afghanistan because of that....

[RevolutionThroughReason]

I think its your ideas that match wahhabism alot...your so called beliefs about mehdi and his army and then denial of sahih bukhari ahadeeths ...all are making me to think that you can be.I may be wrong in judging personalities...but identifying hidden wahhabis like you...i cant be wrong.You in your heart know this.

No you are not tolerant at all.You are racist and a bad critic...esp for women.
If you are that much good...why did you post insulting comments to delhi beauty? Isnt she human? Ok you like afghani women...your's choice..but why insult others?

But most Wahhabis believe that Mahdi will come soon, and they interpret things literally Like you did.

You're not just wrong in judging personalities; you're wrong in knowing what characteriizies something.

I'm tolerant and not racist; my opinion on what I am physically attracted to is nothing to do with tolerance and racism. Racisim is an ideology, Has nothing to do with what a person finds attractive. There's no insult, these women are just not attractive to me. If I were intolerant or racist, I'd be saying the asinine stuff that you are that Indans are evil, caniving, corrupt, just because they're different than me. THAT is intolerance. You even admitted it yourself that you'd be loyal to Pakistanis even after all the horrible things they have done, just because they're Muslim. pathetic.


you are really lacking in intelligence.

[pashtun_rise]

" pakistani " pashtuns and " afghani " pashtuns share the same language , the same culture, the same history.

I can understand the division of punjab ( between sikhs hindus and muslims )
But i will never understand the division between the pashtuns,
The pashtuns share the same religion, they share pashtunwali, they should be united, they are ethnically same, and they have the same tribal organization.

Kam se kam, one day, pashtuns will be united, obviously , there are so many similarities between them.

But I think that the indics pakistanis are trying to do a " DESIfication " of the pashtuns living in pakistan, they are brainwashing them, nowadays many pakistani pashtuns hate afghanistan because of that....

Pashtuns cant be desified...they have this internal fight for autonomous pashtun land for years...yet they are thankful to pak too for providing them the freedom except in last decade when things got worsened.
Why did they not share same region...is simple..West had power in education and technology.Even subcontinent was being used by them.Atleast pashtuns were brave enough to limit them for a certain point...
You are true in certain aspects that paki pashtuns many hate afghans...the reason can be many...but leme give you one example...Whenever cricket match happens b/e india and pak...when india wins...afghanis fire guns in air to celebrate happiness.While for paki pashtuns afridi,younus khan etc are heros...they get angry... I ve literally seen many fights among the 2 pashtun grps...anyhow...its a cricket...there occurs many debates b/w pashtuns of 2 sides...The greatest conflict arises when afghans claim for pashtun lands...n paki pashtun think they are claiming for their occupied lands.U see...both are not wrong but its the use of words i think or misunderstadings that lead to such situation.Another reason...afghanis blame pakis...and so hate against paki pashtun comes naturally when both debate heatedly.

[pashtun_rise]

But most Wahhabis believe that Mahdi will come soon, and they interpret things literally Like you did.

You're not just wrong in judging personalities; you're wrong in knowing what characteriizies something.

I'm tolerant and not racist; my opinion on what I am physically attracted to is nothing to do with tolerance and racism. Racisim is an ideology, Has nothing to do with what a person finds attractive. There's no insult, these women are just not attractive to me. If I were intolerant or racist, I'd be saying the asinine stuff that you are that Indans are evil, caniving, corrupt, just because they're different than me. THAT is intolerance. You even admitted it yourself that you'd be loyal to Pakistanis even after all the horrible things they have done, just because they're Muslim. pathetic.


you are really lacking in intelligence.

Okay...so you are the main hero of the thread...i ve no brains enough to debate with you further who is so funny.

And how can you know there was no insult? I am a woman...i feel insulted let alone her.

Where did i say i hate indians...i said i hate indian govt...and also other govts...why are you specifying things while you know what i am saying again and again.

Imam mehdi is under debate for recent years by the whole world except pashtuns...and that too by mostly afghanis...I dont want to enroll the thread with such websites except the specific ones whom i consider to be brief and authentic...and who has been searched for years on this topic alone...

I admit openly that i love innocent pakis...but i also admit my love for humans in general...whats wrong with loving some nation? I also have admitted my 2nd most love stands for those arabs who are innocent...and suffering in various arab revolts...So now you say i am arab too..?

What kind of stamina you have got to demonize each and everything? M wondering....

[RevolutionThroughReason]

\.and so hate against paki pashtun comes naturally when both debate heatedly.

There is no hate for Pakistani Pashtuns, I don't deny they are Pashtuns;

Some Afghan Pashtuns want to reunite with Pakistani Pashtuns, I say that is NOT possible, we're too poor and too underdeveloped for any type of "Neo-Pashtun" state.Re-unification would just become a mess.

so for me I'd rather you guys stay with Pakistan or even make your own independent state. I don't want anything to do with Pakistani pashttuns on a political level.

On a cultural level that's another story, obviously we still share cultural common ground. but that's not enough to make a country.

[pashtun_rise]

There is no hate for Pakistani Pashtuns, I don't deny they are Pashtuns;

Some Afghan Pashtuns want to reunite with Pakistani Pashtuns, I say that is NOT possible, we're too poor and too underdeveloped for any type of "Neo-Pashtun" state.Re-unification would just become a mess.

so for me I'd rather you guys stay with Pakistan or even make your own independent state. I don't want anything to do with Pakistani pashttuns on a political level.

On a cultural level that's another story, obviously we still share cultural common ground. but that's not enough to make a country.

Well...i dont know much whether reunification would occur regarding region....but i believe in prophecies...ahadeeths....and those prophecies point out the leadership of pashtuns worldwide...not regarding cruelty but with peace...not with so called weapons as you see of talibs...but weapons of faith....

Advising us to stay with pak...you sure think others think like that? I think you are the only one who thinks like that...afterall...you are so unique....

[RevolutionThroughReason]

O

Imam mehdi is under debate for recent years by the whole world except pashtuns...and that too by mostly afghanis...I dont want to enroll the thread with such websites except the specific ones whom i consider to be brief and authentic...and who has been searched for years on this topic alone...

admit openly that i love innocent pakis...but i also admit my love for humans in general...whats wrong with loving some nation? I also have admitted my 2nd most love stands for those arabs who are innocent...and suffering in various arab revolts...So now you say i am arab too..?

What kind of stamina you have got to demonize each and everything? M wondering....

The problem isn't you love innocent pakistanis or innocent arabs, The problem is you hate innocent Indians JUST because they're not like you.

As for the Imam Mehdi debate, the Pakistani ISI has infiltrated into the religious indoctrination of militants, it was only in recent times did this whole Propaganda of claiming Pashtun's are "Mahdi's Army" started to arise, the ISI started promoting this idea to lure more Pashtuns into their agenda, because they started claiming that the Taliban are Mahdi's Army. The Pashtun psychology is very egotistical, and Pakistan understand's this, They realize Pashtuns have this incessant cultural drive to want to believe that Pashtuns in particular have some higher divine destiny especially for them like they were apart of the chosen people, This is the same basis of how the Bani Isra'il myth became started, but we now know through scientific evidence is false.


The Real Mahdi's army already happened during the time of the 'Abbassiyah, when different political movements started to emerge, they needed religious doctrines to justify it. That is why you find most of the things about Mahdi are from weaker collections of Ahadth.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Well...i dont know much whether reunification would occur regarding region....but i believe in prophecies...ahadeeths....and those prophecies point out the leadership of pashtuns worldwide...not regarding cruelty but with peace...not with so called weapons as you see of talibs...but weapons of faith....

Advising us to stay with pak...you sure think others think like that? I think you are the only one who thinks like that...afterall...you are so unique....

I have never seen any Prophecy specifically mentioning Pashtuns, LOL But if you want to believe this stuff go ahead.

I look for logical and rational answers, because Prophecies and ahadeeths are so easy to MISINTERPRET and Misunderstand.