Split Discussion: What Can Pashtuns Learn from Panjabis

[abassinafghan]

@lynx

Have you ever been in afghanistan .? Did you ever lived there ? Did you lived in the islamic republic of afghanistan. When mister massoud or rabbani were in charge i dont belive so ..

Besides i dont think you know after all any one who was there at this time or the political circumstances which led to his death , let alone the circumstances which led to the invasion of the sowjets .and the different parties which had interessts in this war.


If you reall belive daud was killed because pervert communists wanted mini skirts
,you should really read some books and talk with some people who has been there .... I can not take you serious sorry

And the rest of your explinations are just laughable dont say it infront of grown men they will laugh about you ...continuie your funny stories at the net but please dont claim this nonsence as history .


and your mullah say and legitimize everything as long there is somebody who is paying him for it ,just look at the current ulema or look at saudi arabistan ,
The kafir is always the one in the other party regardless what he is doing or even what one self is doing .




@shadowguy

No one hinders the pashtuns to day from going to university in kabul , if you dont belive me go there and look it up by your self , also back then in the old days most classes were not held in pashto but dari !!!! Excluding everyone who was not fluent in dari .

Yes its true that hazaras pushing their youth to the universities and its true that they are Profiting from the americans , what is doing kharzai and his brothers ?

The hazara get education from them , kharzai take all the money into his own pocket , and trust me even if americans move out those hazaras will be there and will get along with talib jan, because they will have skills which we lack .

And for the case of europe we can meet and count , i know alot of pashtun families and i know what their children are doing and i can gurantee you majority of our people are busy making the short term cash ,instead for the long term hit ....

Hence we are not even able to form any associatian or making community work like offering language courses providing history books or even far away from political questions just the cultivation and preservation of our cultural heritage ,

Because most people dont care ....


If i said any thing wrong , just proof me wrong , tell me in which point and why i am wrong .


But to say i am kafir and munafiq and that i say lies , without telling how and why , i can not take you serious and i will treat you like a child like i treat lynx ,

On such a level any further discussions lead no way and makes no sence

[abassinafghan]

@ havisultan screw you and your pakistan

[tor_khan]

No doubt Pashtuns are behind in education but what is the solution?do you have study material in pashto? or do you want them to be taught in urdu and dari(which is happening)? i think we need to be practical, instead of constantly criticising our people and blaming them for the situation.
I dont think about having an upper hand

Thank you for acknowledging a key weakness. Whatever the solution to the education deficit, the present situation is extremely undesirable, since whether you think about having the upper hand or not, I guarantee you for sure, there are others out there who not only think about having the upper hand, they know that they have got it and know how to manipulate our people in order to make sure that they keep it.

[Shah-i-Kot]

So the solution that Toramana, Soldat try to say is that NATO war/occupation is good for Pashtuns? Keeping those NATO supply routes from Torkham and Chaman is good for Pashtuns?

Without NATO war, Pashtuns will be in bad shape..

What the heck type of a logic is this?

They want the NATO supply lines from Pakistan should REMAIN OPEN.. These are "Pashtun nationalists?" NO

Pro-Pakistan when Pakistan supports the NATO war LOL what jokes/losers.

The NATO war is not possible without Pakistan support for it. Therefore, only dishonest pro-War individuals make things up...

They are the biggest supporters of Pakistan

[Afghanistan2010]

Wayali di che de lewany sara bass ma kawa....

وایلی دی چه دې ليونى سره باس ماکاوه

[Shah-i-Kot]

The education

Do think Indians like it that you pretend to be an Indian, making fools out of them?

[randolph85]

Soldat and Abbasin,

All this talk about Mullahs and beards, you fools.. it was the secularist/militant Communists who started all this when they murdered Sardar Daud Khan and his entire family, then buried them in a mass grave.

Daud Khan was not secular enough for these perverts/war hawks/cowards supporting foreign wars/occupation.

Despite the fact that he was ok with women wearing mini skirts in Kabul ...these perverts were not satisfied, in their WARPED sense of PROGRESS, NO, these pervert secular trash were not satisfied. They wanted Kabul women to walk around naked, they wanted homosexuals/lesbians and immorality to be the norm...Pimping and prostitution to be the norm..they wanted Kabul to be Las Vegas.


Then when Daud Khan realized it is best to gravitate towards Muslim nations, these secular rats went and murdered him and his family...


So Soldat, my dear dear friend, look in the mirror at your own ideological leanings, and blame yourself for the situation Pashtuns are in..


Had Sardar Daud Khan not been assassinated by your Communist heroes/False Pashtun nationalists... at least Afghanistan would have resembled even a corrupt state as Pakistan that you admire where at least people can get an education, go to medical school/engineering school/law school, etc etc...work with what is offered, an educations in some semblance of security. Your communist secular militant terrorists wanted war and foreign occupation. Today, these losers have warped into democratists. LOL HAHAHAH

The issue is regardless of Sardar Daud Khan's political leanings, one thing he would not tolerate is a Soviet war and occupation of Afghanistan. This along with his gravitation towards Muslim countries was why he was assassinated by your secular MILITANT terrorist Communist heroes aka FALSE PASHTUN NATIONALISTS

These people are solely to blame for Afghanistan's problems, not the Mullahs. The Mullahs are simply doing what their ancestors did, and what all Pashtuns do.

Pashtuns will never tolerate foreign occupation. Period




BUT NO YOUR COMMUNIST COWARD HEROES DID NOT WANT THAT..

daud was a POS and he was not killed for "not being secular enough"

he was killed for pushing away the people that brought him into power, the communists.

[R3SISTANC3]

Soldat, some valid points, but a lot of defeatist diatribe. Plus the religious people have always did the actual fighting in respect to our historical struggles while the modern liberal types made treaties and joined the enemy political adventures in the region. Even right now the religious TTP is fighting the Pakistani army nail and teeth while the nationalist parties are part of the Pakistani parliament.

The TTP while killing and dying at the hands of the Pakistani army, agencies and their allies in the 'war on terror' are supposedly, according to you, agents of Pakistan. While the nationalists giving invitation to and seeking protection from the same people are supposedly, according to you, our liberators and not agents at all.

Okay, white is black, and black is white. Got it.

[haviZsultan]

I would like to add more.

Punjab in itself is not an example of having a great education system and high literacy in itself. When you want to learn from someone you choose the person who has the best system. So in terms of education and women's rights there isn't much Punjab can necessarily do for the Pashtuns.

However there is something else we can learn from the Punjabis. Often the Punjabis are criticized for having no culture or traditions and their rapid urduization. However its not really that they have no culture. They are more willing to accept change than Pashtuns who are adamant to stick to old tribal structures despite their clear problems.

Pashtuns have simply fought change wherever they have seen it. Pir Roshan and how he was hated by the mainstream is proof of that. Though I do admit the Pashtuns of the past were much more tolerant than what they are now. Today sometimes it seems there is no hope when looking at the racists and fanatics.

Pashtun culture has deteriorated in favor of fanaticism in the recent years no less the fault of terrorists and mullah-cult than the fault of ultra-nationalists who refuse to look within.

An example of the role of women was Nazo Tokhi. Its clear that she used to arbitrate disputes between the Ghilzai and Sadozai tribes. However to have a woman doing this in modern times in Afghanistan or FATA is unthinkable.

The thing is the overall culture of each people has changed towards more liberal and noble ideas over time. The Afghans unfortunately have become more fanatical as time has passed. Afghanistan2010 and shadowgovernor prove this.

Overall culture has changed with time in many places. Europe used to burn old women at stakes calling them witches. They used to burn entire Jewish quarters in their cities. They adopted secularism, they went on a path of development and completely revolutionized their entire culture. No more is the life of any citizen in danger for what he or she believes in. Europe has been at each others throats for several thousands of years and they changed. What with the prohibition in America etc? US was much more intolerant than it is now.

Also if we are looking for an example it is not necessary that the change should come from outside... why not look at a few personalities that we could be inspired with to march on a path of enlightenment:
1) Pir Roshan: Today Sufism is a concept that is no where in the minds of the Pashtun but Pir Roshan was on a path to lead us there. To lead us towards tolerance, peace, harmony. He advocated women's rights and education.
2) Nazo Tokhi: A woman who used to arbitrate disputes and was very much involved in the running of Pashtun Nation. Today it is unthinkable that women will have such a role.
3) Malalai of Maiwand: This woman rallied Pashtun armies against the British. She was on the field of battle. Something quite unheard for women today.
4) (This will not go down well with the racists here) Jinnah: Though Jinnah was an urdu speaker his ideas were revolutionary and fit for a progressive state. If we had followed his ideas for women's empowerment and education Pashtuns. My inclusion of him in this list is because Pashtuns gave their lives for Jinnah's demand for a Pakistan. He was by all means a Pashtun leader no matter how much Afghans deny this. 30 Million Pakistani Pashtuns follow him. Some qoutes:

We are victims of evil customs. It is a crime against humanity that our women are shut up within the four walls of the houses as prisoners. There is no sanction anywhere for the deplorable condition in which our women have to live.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah

No nation can rise to the height of glory unless your women are side by side with you.
Muhammad Ali Jinnah

We guarantee equal rights to all citizens of Pakistan. Hindus should in spirit and action wholeheartedly co-operate with the Government and its various branches as Pakistanis.

I will maintain that Pashtuns need to change their culture for development and progress. Instead of focusing on revenge focus on love and education. Look within guys and don't turn to racism.

Some people view culture as a never-changing stable concept which will always remain the same. I refuse to believe this. Our culture will be what we make of it.