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**Shah-i-Kot** · 05-29-2012, 01:49 PM

Toramana and HaviSultan both support the NATO war and Pakistan support for it. One is dishonest and tries to disguise it, the other, Havi simply is honest about it. Toramana calls the Afghan insurgency made up of "Pak and Arab terrorist, and Havi simply makes it clear he is opposed to "Islamic extremists."

These two having an argument is like someone trying to put a fire out with fire.

**Michin Khel** · 05-29-2012, 02:22 PM

And you have labeled me "pashtun nationalist" in another thread and you said that luffy might be like this because he was "abused" by some ignorant punjabis. I think you and PFers deserve an explanation on this.
Dear havi , some "pathan jokes" has not make me cry or some thing like that.. Stereotypes about pashtuns in pakistan do not make you react in a way to push you to become a pashtunist. They are just signs, not disease itself.
You should know that in pakistani education curriculum, they fed propaganda and false information to kids , not education. Many pakistani analysts agree that lies should'nt be fed to kids in mutala pakistan. Forexample in our urdu book there was subject about 1965 war , in which they were telling us that "hindostan ne raat k andheray may beghair ki waja k lahore par hamla kar dia" which translates to "india attacked lahore in the darkness of night like cowards without any reason"...but the fact is that india attacked lahore in response to operation giberaltor.
Our pashtun kids are taught jinnah, iqbal, muslim league etc and hindophobia is infused into us. Hateful material against india and hindus is taught to our kids, despite the fact that there are hindus in pakistan.
Then urdu children stories are also full of constroversial material, like i read a story where main villian is named "iblees gandhi"...whole urdu literature is about hindostani figures. No emphasize on ethnic identity, infact it is strictly kep away from it. So pashtun kids are brainwashed and made "indics". These pashtuns always live in denial like rest of pakistanis...some of the intelligent pashtuns are able to read some neutral sources, learn about their roots and proper identity, they become realistic human being.. He begins to respond to reason and logic, not emotions and propagandas.
I am a pakistani but i am not a personality-worshipper , i dont worship jinnah like idol. I have also studied maulana abdul kalam azad, he was of far superior vision than jinnah.and i dont have to be anti-hindu, anti-gandhi to be a good pakistani. I am just a practical muslim of pashtun ethnicity and pakistani nationality...I dont wish pakistani pashtuns to become like havi who struggles to speak pashto, or like talal whose ancestors were once pashto speakers, or like my one of pashtun classfellow in qatar who was wearing kurta like punjabis and was ashamed of speaking pashto. I dont want them to adopt bhangra and urdu culture...

**JattApache** · 05-29-2012, 02:37 PM

Our pashtun kids are taught jinnah, iqbal, muslim league etc and hindophobia is infused into us. Hateful material against india and hindus is taught to our kids, despite the fact that there are hindus in pakistan.
Then urdu children stories are also full of constroversial material, like i read a story where main villian is named "iblees gandhi"...whole urdu literature is about hindostani figures. No emphasize on ethnic identity, infact it is strictly kep away from it. So pashtun kids are brainwashed and made "indics". These pashtuns always live in denial like rest of pakistanis...some of the intelligent pashtuns are able to read some neutral sources, learn about their roots and proper identity, they become realistic human being.. He begins to respond to reason and logic, not emotions and propagandas.

So true

**afghanis_hehe** · 05-29-2012, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by Luffy View Post

Before taking a break i thought why not a message for you, as you may or may not be here when i come back.
Havi, Today i checked your profile on defence.pk. A similar thread about your book "badal: the thirst for revenge" was posted by you there, but no one even bothered to reply your thread, even though defence.pk has huge traffic and your thread was sticky. What does it tell you?
You live in america and you are a pakistani nationalist, it tells me one thing that some one in your family is in Pakistan army. A pakistani nationalist is not supposed to have ethnic pride but you are taking pride in pakified version of suris, lodhis, you are writing book on pashtuns and you are a member of pashtun-forum...why is that? You were supposed to follow jinnah's quote "from now on, we are only pakistanis, not baloch, punjabi, pathan, bengali or sindhi" , moreover regionalism and ethnic nationalism is strictly haram in pakistani ideology....dont tell me you just joined this forum for promotion of your book when it failed to attract pakistani nationalists at defence.pk?
Dear havi, afghan-hehe is a punjabi and he is just here for fun and thrill and drama which is ensued when he provokes afghans here....you were feeling victimized here so you greeted him as your saviour and started afghan bashing....tell me why you joined this forum in the first place?
I and son of mountains were PMed by a member of defence.pk that he is creating a forum for "pakistani pashtuns" please join. Somehow i liked and supported the idea. When i joined it, i realized that almost all the members were pathans from defence.pk, hardcore pakistani nationalists... Though forum's name was pashtons.pk but there was no pashtun-related discussions going on there, members there were confused..they were posting topics about pakistan... As pakistani nationalists they only know about defending pakistan, not expressing their pashtun-ness. And then they started afghan bashing like they always do on defence.pk to show to fellow pakistanis that pashtuns are very patriotic.... I tried to create "pashtun" atmosphere by posting articles about pashto langauge, literature and culture...but i got zero responses, instead they were praising pak army operations..
I decided to run a diagnostic test on them, i asked them a question in a poll, "who is quaid_e_azam of pashtuns?, jinnah, bacha khan or ahmad shah abdali"...in explaination i wrote that "qauid-e-azam" means the great leader, so who is great leader of pashtuns?...i immediately recieved a warning from a moderator that he wont tolerate any disrespect of jinnah on pashtons.pk. When i replied to him in pashto, he did'nt reply back. Later son of mountains told me that the mod was not a pashto speaker...interesting is'nt...all defence.pk members left the forum within month as they had nothing to discuss any thing about pashtuns.
What does it prove?. It proves that you cant be "adha teetar adha batair" .When you are a pakistani nationalist like zahid hamid then you have to give up on pashtun sense of pride, pashtun heroes and pashtun history. So havi if you are a pakistani nationalist then stop taking false pride in the so called "pak-pashtun" identity who according to your punjabi fellow were always different from "afghanis" since centuries. And that lodhis and suris were pakistani pashtuns, not afghanis...rediculous

yes i m punjabi but what does that mean i m nt here to have fun ok . i m hear to defend my nation against false histry and proudness over the history which afghans dont have ok. here by afghan i mean peopel of afghanistan . on the other hand my mother is pashtun so i have every right to be on this forum . not only this if u can start a whole ghilzai pashtun tribe from a women named bibi mato then why cant i join in. u my frend are mixed up guy .what happens over here my frend on this forum jinnah is called a pork eater what does that seem to u paki bashing right. pakistani are called the terrorists and napaksitan and pakis and all thsi , where are u at that time , are u a pashtun or a pakistani. well i dont know abt u but u have to accept the fact that lodhis and suris were born in the regioon called pakistan and there descendants cant speak pashto lodhis and suris are present in punajb and sindh but that doesnt mean that they will give their forefathers history to the peeople of afghanistan who couldnt even help our forefathers when they migarted to afghanistan during khlafat movement. why do u think they didnt help us then and why do u think that we should help them now. on the other hand u have started a thread for havizsultan but u didnt start a thread to defend ur baba e qoum jinaah . wow what a pashtun u r

**afghanis_hehe** · 05-29-2012, 05:28 PM

Originally posted by Luffy View Post

And you have labeled me "pashtun nationalist" in another thread and you said that luffy might be like this because he was "abused" by some ignorant punjabis. I think you and PFers deserve an explanation on this.
Dear havi , some "pathan jokes" has not make me cry or some thing like that.. Stereotypes about pashtuns in pakistan do not make you react in a way to push you to become a pashtunist. They are just signs, not disease itself.
You should know that in pakistani education curriculum, they fed propaganda and false information to kids , not education. Many pakistani analysts agree that lies should'nt be fed to kids in mutala pakistan. Forexample in our urdu book there was subject about 1965 war , in which they were telling us that "hindostan ne raat k andheray may beghair ki waja k lahore par hamla kar dia" which translates to "india attacked lahore in the darkness of night like cowards without any reason"...but the fact is that india attacked lahore in response to operation giberaltor.
Our pashtun kids are taught jinnah, iqbal, muslim league etc and hindophobia is infused into us. Hateful material against india and hindus is taught to our kids, despite the fact that there are hindus in pakistan.
Then urdu children stories are also full of constroversial material, like i read a story where main villian is named "iblees gandhi"...whole urdu literature is about hindostani figures. No emphasize on ethnic identity, infact it is strictly kep away from it. So pashtun kids are brainwashed and made "indics". These pashtuns always live in denial like rest of pakistanis...some of the intelligent pashtuns are able to read some neutral sources, learn about their roots and proper identity, they become realistic human being.. He begins to respond to reason and logic, not emotions and propagandas.
I am a pakistani but i am not a personality-worshipper , i dont worship jinnah like idol. I have also studied maulana abdul kalam azad, he was of far superior vision than jinnah.and i dont have to be anti-hindu, anti-gandhi to be a good pakistani. I am just a practical muslim of pashtun ethnicity and pakistani nationality...I dont wish pakistani pashtuns to become like havi who struggles to speak pashto, or like talal whose ancestors were once pashto speakers, or like my one of pashtun classfellow in qatar who was wearing kurta like punjabis and was ashamed of speaking pashto. I dont want them to adopt bhangra and urdu culture...

abdul kalam azad had quite high visions man . hahah he supported gandhi during congress ministries when u and i were asked to worship gandhi ok and sing bhajans and dogs were thrown in our masjids. well u i think bro if consider jinnah as inferior to azad then my frend u shudnt be living in pakistan as he got u this state . u ur ancestors would have been under ths slavery of indians if jinnah wouldnt have rose. woow man u calll urself a pakistani and then u support azad. i dont know what kind of pashtun u r but the pashtuns i know and my family memebers are not like u . urdu books well i beleive my muslims writers rather than white writers or hindu writers . u can belive them may be u have a close blood linkage with them

**BLS_1919v2.0** · 05-29-2012, 05:36 PM

^^Ghilzai tribe supposedly starting from a woman is a myth, a theory proposed by a few, not a fact set in stone. It is as realistic as Yousafzais being descendants of Hazrat Yousaf (AS). In other words, possible but highly unlikely.
Jinnah is not a baba e qaam for Pashtuns, he is just a lawyer who has been given the mantle of father for a country that was created 60 years ago. He can't father a nation that doesn't exist. Pakistan is a state with nations living in it, but it is not a nation. It's very ideology stops it from being a nation, because the very identity of religion that supposedly differentiates it from Hindus, is shared by a billion people.
You can't retroactively add new identities to older personalities like the Lodhis and Suris. Afghanistan can claim them only by virtue of having Afghan in its state's name. Just like Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa can claim Mirwais Neeka, Nazoana, Ghazi Amanullah, etc. Certain personalities transcend state and artificial boundaries.

**abassinafghan** · 05-29-2012, 05:46 PM

so shut up daal eater , jinnah was an ismaeli shia , a sect declared kafirs , back in the first anglo afghan war , i refuse to recognize a state created by kafirs calling their selfes muslims and legitimising their existence because of religion .

kufrabad murdabad

**afghanis_hehe** · 05-29-2012, 05:48 PM

Originally posted by BLS_1919v2.0 View Post

^^Ghilzai tribe supposedly starting from a woman is a myth, a theory proposed by a few, not a fact set in stone. It is as realistic as Yousafzais being descendants of Hazrat Yousaf (AS). In other words, possible but highly unlikely.
Jinnah is not a baba e qaam for Pashtuns, he is just a lawyer who has been given the mantle of father for a country that was created 60 years ago. He can't father a nation that doesn't exist. Pakistan is a state with nations living in it, but it is not a nation. It's very ideology stops it from being a nation, because the very identity of religion that supposedly differentiates it from Hindus, is shared by a billion people.
You can't retroactively add new identities to older personalities like the Lodhis and Suris. Afghanistan can claim them only by virtue of having Afghan in its state's name. Just like Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa can claim Mirwais Neeka, Nazoana, Ghazi Amanullah, etc. Certain personalities transcend state and artificial boundaries.

Well brother jinnah is babe qoum for most pakistanis whther they are pashtuns or not . whoever says that jinnah is not babe quom is either a person from afghanistan who thinks pashtuns in kp hate other ethnic groups . well bro i m nt saying ghilzai are for sure descendants of bibi mato but that theory is the only theory which makes them pashtun . other theory makes them turk that is descnded from khilji turks. and there are no nations in pakistan , while pakistan itself is a nation. we might also think the same way that uzbek tajik hazara and pashtun in afghanistan are different nation but the reality is that u live in one country and they are afghans too , same is with pakistan all the people in pakistan are one nation no matter how much the peopel from other countries comment about that. i respect u as an administrator.
i just hae one simple question for all afghans, where were they when our forefathers migrated to afghansitan during khilafat movement why did they kick us out from there. my relatives were unluckily part of that migration too.??
allah hafiz brother

**afghanis_hehe** · 05-29-2012, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by abassinafghan View Post

the women which gave birth to you is certanly not a pashtun women and if she is by name a true pashtana ,and speaks pashto , her father and brothers should be shot dead , giving her away to punjabis .

so shut up daal eater , jinnah was an ismaeli shia , a sect declared kafirs , back in the first anglo afghan war , i refuse to recognize a state created by kafirs calling their selfes muslims and legitimising their existence because of religion .

kufrabad murdabad

well u r a dumb person . and i guess a person who respect a women then shouldnt even be called a person . pshyco why dont ur mother be shot for making a mistake of giving u birth. so mind u language next time.
what dal eater , i have seen u guys eating dal and even eating garbage here in pakistan. well dall is a food , i dont care if u call me dall eater or whatever. it shows how desperate u r .
we have a country names pakistan and it is present on the map . think whatever u want nobody wants to listen to u.

**BLS_1919v2.0** · 05-29-2012, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by afghanis_hehe View Post

Well brother jinnah is babe qoum for most pakistanis whther they are pashtuns or not . whoever says that jinnah is not babe quom is either a person from afghanistan who thinks pashtuns in kp hate other ethnic groups . well bro i m nt saying ghilzai are for sure descendants of bibi mato but that theory is the only theory which makes them pashtun . other theory makes them turk that is descnded from khilji turks. and there are no nations in pakistan , while pakistan itself is a nation. we might also think the same way that uzbek tajik hazara and pashtun in afghanistan are different nation but the reality is that u live in one country and they are afghans too , same is with pakistan all the people in pakistan are one nation no matter how much the peopel from other countries comment about that. i respect u as an administrator.
i just hae one simple question for all afghans, where were they when our forefathers migrated to afghansitan during khilafat movement why did they kick us out from there. my relatives were unluckily part of that migration too.??
allah hafiz brother

Why is he a baba e qaam? Because in textbooks people were taught this? What makes Pakistan a nation? Two boundaries drawn by Britain? Was there a pakistani nation prior to 1947? What are its parameters?
Yes Afghanistan has different ethnic groups/nations, no one denies this. Afghanistan came out of a kingdom, a pashtun dynasty, one that unified a pashtun nation and later amalgamated other groups into its state. There are other states with similar historical progress. No one denies this.

When did this mass migration of Pashtunkhwa people take place? Indians mostly tried to move to Afghanistan during the Khilafah movement and the government at the time had no interest in entertaining them. However, many Pashtuns moved across the durand line and established themselves. Many Pashtunkhwa people were given IDs and education facilities during Zahir Shah's and Daud's time.
These relatives of yours, which side of the family were they?

P.S. This khilafah movement also suffered in the former Ottoman empire, the Turks and Arabs themselves discarded this idea. Sure Britain and the other European powers carved up the region, but the Turks and Arabs helped finish it off. They were just as uninterested as the then govt of Afghanistan. Not using it as a cover but an FYI.

**afghanis_hehe** · 05-29-2012, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by BLS_1919v2.0 View Post

Why is he a baba e qaam? Because in textbooks people were taught this? What makes Pakistan a nation? Two boundaries drawn by Britain? Was there a pakistani nation prior to 1947? What are its parameters?
Yes Afghanistan has different ethnic groups/nations, no one denies this. Afghanistan came out of a kingdom, a pashtun dynasty, one that unified a pashtun nation and later amalgamated other groups into its state. There are other states with similar historical progress. No one denies this.

When did this mass migration of Pashtunkhwa people take place? Indians mostly tried to move to Afghanistan during the Khilafah movement and the government at the time had no interest in entertaining them. However, many Pashtuns moved across the durand line and established themselves. Many Pashtunkhwa people were given IDs and education facilities during Zahir Shah's and Daud's time.
These relatives of yours, which side of the family were they?

P.S. This khilafah movement also suffered in the former Ottoman empire, the Turks and Arabs themselves discarded this idea. Sure Britain and the other European powers carved up the region, but the Turks and Arabs helped finish it off. They were just as uninterested as the then govt of Afghanistan. Not using it as a cover but an FYI.

Well governement of afghansitan was uninterested right to entertain their muslim brothers .thanx its nice to hear brother when people sell all their properties and all what they had and moved to afghansitan to gain help and what they gained was rejection.
my mothers family tried to go there and my grandmother tells me that when they went there even though they were pashtuns they were cooking and some local ladies kicked their food pot and asked them in a bad manner to go back and stop sitting in their fields. thats the love we all muslims have for each other.

**randolph85** · 05-29-2012, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by afghanis_hehe View Post

well u r a dumb person . and i guess a person who respect a women then shouldnt even be called a person . pshyco why dont ur mother be shot for making a mistake of giving u birth. so mind u language next time.
what dal eater , i have seen u guys eating dal and even eating garbage here in pakistan. well dall is a food , i dont care if u call me dall eater or whatever. it shows how desperate u r .
we have a country names pakistan and it is present on the map . think whatever u want nobody wants to listen to u.

israel is also on the map, which was created by the same people who drew the map of pakistan, ironically. being created by foreigners and recognized by them doesn't make the state legitimate.

**Michin Khel** · 05-29-2012, 06:05 PM

During khilafat movement, it were millions of hindostanis, not lar pashtuns, who tried to enter into afghanistan after ulema called hindostan "dar-ul-harb" due to british occupations. The idea was migration of "all" hindostani muslims to afghanistan. Wow. These pusies have always run from hindus in fear like this. They wept for our help when marahatas were close to capturing of all india.
Thanks God afghan king did'nt open doors to hindostanis muslims, they would have fate like sindhis. And farts could have been echoing throught afghanistan.

**haviZsultan** · 05-29-2012, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by Luffy View Post

Before taking a break i thought why not a message for you, as you may or may not be here when i come back.
Havi, Today i checked your profile on defence.pk. A similar thread about your book "badal: the thirst for revenge" was posted by you there, but no one even bothered to reply your thread, even though defence.pk has huge traffic and your thread was sticky. What does it tell you?

Your point I understand nought. Detective.

Wonder what you are doing on a Nationalist forum, Luffy. Good question isn't it. Call Pakistan a mistake then defend the same Nation?

You live in america and you are a pakistani nationalist, it tells me one thing that some one in your family is in Pakistan army. A pakistani nationalist is not supposed to have ethnic pride but you are taking pride in pakified version of suris, lodhis, you are writing book on pashtuns and you are a member of pashtun-forum...why is that? You were supposed to follow jinnah's quote "from now on, we are only pakistanis, not baloch, punjabi, pathan, bengali or sindhi" , moreover regionalism and ethnic nationalism is strictly haram in pakistani ideology....dont tell me you just joined this forum for promotion of your book when it failed to attract pakistani nationalists at defence.pk?

No one in my direct family is in the army. Distant relatives yes.

I joined this site for many reasons-initially yes it was the promotion of my book. However another reason is to disprove what you're getting at... that a proud Pashtun cannot be patriotic Pakistani. He has to give one up.

Quaid E Azam was right. Extreme pride in ethnic identity would always be detrimental, similarly extreme pride in religion to the point of hating other religions and bashing Hindus would do nothing to strengthen the social fabric of Pakistan. So in reality Quaid had a remedy to both our religious and ethnic issues. Pity we didn't follow his path. Quaid E Azam meant that we are Pakistanis first before anything and our land means a lot to us. Its not really smart to assume that Quaid E Azam even thought that these racial identities would completely disappear.

He understood their existence and applied specific solutions to specific ethnic groups.

Ethnic pride is never a problem unless it comes in the way of Pakistan. Unfortunately many of the ethnic nationalists do not understand that they do not have to be anti Pakistani to think about the betterment of their race. That their races future is forever joined with Pakistan.

The point is, is Jinnah's purpose successful. Is my love for Pashtuns coming in the way of my Nationalism. Is it making me hate Punjabis and the others? If it is not Quaid E Azam would not mind my dedication to Pashtuns.

Lets put it this way. The cause of Pashtuns and the cause of Pakistan is one-at least the cause of Pakistani Pashtuns anyway who are far more in number than Toramana etc.

Dear havi, afghan-hehe is a punjabi and he is just here for fun and thrill and drama which is ensued when he provokes afghans here....you were feeling victimized here so you greeted him as your saviour and started afghan bashing....tell me why you joined this forum in the first place?

You are trying to drive me and Afghani-hehe apart. I wish I had a better name for him. Me and this guy are brothers from the state of Pakistan and we love our country. This inevitably brings us closer.

I have never BASHED Afghans. They have always bashed me and my country. When someone shows the Afghans the mirror they obviously do not take it pleasantly. You just came. You don't know how they treated us before this.

Initially I expected proud Pakistani Pashtuns would be on this forum and Afghan Pashtuns would be peaceful in nature, not stubborn. I thought they would welcome the book with open arms and I would build a large market for my book. After all the book was about Pashtuns. Initially that was the reason. But after noticing how great the racism is now I am here for more reasons than that. One of which I have stated before.

I and son of mountains were PMed by a member of defence.pk that he is creating a forum for "pakistani pashtuns" please join. Somehow i liked and supported the idea. When i joined it, i realized that almost all the members were pathans from defence.pk, hardcore pakistani nationalists... Though forum's name was pashtons.pk but there was no pashtun-related discussions going on there, members there were confused..they were posting topics about pakistan... As pakistani nationalists they only know about defending pakistan, not expressing their pashtun-ness. And then they started afghan bashing like they always do on defence.pk to show to fellow pakistanis that pashtuns are very patriotic.... I tried to create "pashtun" atmosphere by posting articles about pashto langauge, literature and culture...but i got zero responses, instead they were praising pak army operations..

Have you seen how empty the site is? I posted similar articles and got no responses. Big deal. The fate of Pashtuns and Pakistanis is forever intertwined. I have been explaining why all day and cannot elaborate on this further.

Lets focus on you. You are treating me better than the racist crowd in the hopes you can win me over which you can't.

And Luffy, please I told Toramana the same thing. Please don't try to teach us. I appreciate you are not like Toramana but I recognize that you are on the edge. The only one who is confused is these people who want to break Pakistan and you too are slightly confused. You don't know what you are advocating by supporting these people who will gladly discard you once you've been used. Just because of history which the Afghans forgot in one day when they gave us over to the British you are forgetting how the Pakistani Pashtuns struggled alone without Afghan support against the British, fought and died and then with their blood built Pakistan. (Toramana is probably really an Afghan not from Pakistani side.)

Pashtuns made Pakistan. I still maintain this. 3 people in now or never movement, Abdur Rab Nishtar, thousands of Pashtun soldiers. Why do you guys discount that as a part of our history. What greater crime can you commit on the souls of these departed?

This history of Pashtuns is what makes us different or apart from the Afghans.

I decided to run a diagnostic test on them, i asked them a question in a poll, "who is quaid_e_azam of pashtuns?, jinnah, bacha khan or ahmad shah abdali"...in explaination i wrote that "qauid-e-azam" means the great leader, so who is great leader of pashtuns?...i immediately recieved a warning from a moderator that he wont tolerate any disrespect of jinnah on pashtons.pk. When i replied to him in pashto, he did'nt reply back. Later son of mountains told me that the mod was not a pashto speaker...interesting is'nt...all defence.pk members left the forum within month as they had nothing to discuss any thing about pashtuns.

There is no guarantee that if the mod was not a Pashto speaker he was also not Pashtun.

Many Pashtuns in Pakistan speak Urdu, Punjabi and Kashmiri and have only a Pashtun background though they still identify for the most part as Pakistani Pashtuns. Now the census in Pakistan is done on the basis of language which means there may be a few Million or so more Pashtuns in Pakistan that are not being counted.

Now being a Pashtun Nationalist you should be working to have an ethnic census to ensure all Pashtuns are counted and as a result get a proper share of the economy. This is what annoys me sometimes about Toramana too... you guys simply are not focused on the right issues. Instead all you want is to break Pakistan is if by some magic the disappearance of Pakistan will solve our problems. You don't know what you are doing and when you will destroy the chances for Pakistani Pashtuns you will eventually feel guilt. Right now you are not understanding you are taking us to suicide.

Toramana made a similar claim that Amir Abdur Rehman was a hero. Only a fool of a Pashtun Nationalist could have made such a ridiculous claim because he is the reason for the divide between Northern and southern Pashtuns today. I don't like repeating, my views on that are discussed here:

Why what Abdur Rehman Khan did partitioned Pashtuns forever.

Instead of misleading Pashtuns to believe Pakistani and Pashtun interests are separate if you guys managed to do something useful and focus on real issues such as language, poverty, intolerance and fanaticism we would be a much better society. But some people are intent on making sure Pashtuns lose what little they have.

Luffy, by leading Pashtuns on a head on collision course with the state

What does it prove?. It proves that you cant be "adha teetar adha batair" .When you are a pakistani nationalist like zahid hamid then you have to give up on pashtun sense of pride, pashtun heroes and pashtun history. So havi if you are a pakistani nationalist then stop taking false pride in the so called "pak-pashtun" identity who according to your punjabi fellow were always different from "afghanis" since centuries. And that lodhis and suris were pakistani pashtuns, not afghanis...rediculous

False broken logic again. I refuse to agree at all. Its clear they were Southern Pashtuns-Pakistani Pashtuns or below the Durand line Pashtuns. What people like you will never understand is that the history of Pakistan is the history of all races within it. Its not the history of a race because Pakistani is not really a race. What is Pakistani Pashtuns history (70% of all Pashtuns are Pakistani) is Pakistani history which makes our countries all the more complex.

I don't know why you have a problem with this. Shouldn't our culture be accepted within Pakistan. Doesn't this mean Pashtun culture is being recognized. Isn't that what you want or do you want to prove that Pakistan and Pashtun are different paths.

Luffy I can only advise you not to listen to the Afghan. Please. I don't have to tell you about the biases which you already know about.

One of the primary purposes of me being on this forum is to PROVE that a Pashtun Nationalist does not have to be a traitor to motherland. I will prove that a Pashtun Nationalist can also be a diehard Pakistani.

This is the truth. My views on the topic are explained in full in this post. Pashtuns and Afghans are always separate:
Why Pakistani Pashtuns and Afghans are different

Announcement

To havisultan and Pakistani members co

To havisultan and Pakistani members co

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