...... Pakistan ......

[Jana]

What invaders? Please understand that you cannot use the us Punjabi Moslems vs them Christian NATO/US/ISAF card here. The presence of NATO/ISAF is a pre-requisite for stability in the region in the forseeable future.

Forget about the punjabis or mohajirs or for that matter what aliens say.


Keeping in view the red highlighted parts in above post of yours i am asking so you support presence of US/NATO/ISAF in Afghanistan????

About the Pashtuns of Pashtunkhwa loving Pakistan. As has been said a hundered times before this is the result of state propaganda and state indoctrination.

When Afghanistan is free and independent then do go to UN and ask for referendum or whatever and whatever will be the result we will know what is the situation. for the time being it doesnt matter what you or me saying on forums.

[Nadir Shah]

Dwee Mashooman na dee chee sok ba ye use kri. Which dream you are living in btw ??

Afghanistan blames everything on others but failed to see that why they did not have the same sincerity to get united for the development of the country.

One strong system with proper representation of all sides in the political system is the needed thing which is missing in Afghanistan too and this space does give rise to resentment in many.

At the end all of you can do whatever you can for separating Khyber Pukhtunkhwa, if there are few stooges who are dreaming to get rich by separating dancing on the tunes of others then well lets see.

The lack of political cohesion or the instability in government functioning of a country does not warrant for another country to try to occupy or manipulate it. If, for exapmle, the army were to move in on Islamabad. Would India be justified in invading Pakistan or financing rebels in Pakistan? The same is true in case of the Saur Revolution and Pakistan.

Look who's talking? You should first think of the failed, dysfunctional, ethincally fractures, economically suicidal and terrorist and seperatist ridden Pakistan before pointing fingers.

[Jana]

No one said Pakistan is the only one. However, you don't see us defending peerangyaan or Iran, so why are you defending Pakistan's role in this? Surely Pashto comes before a citizenship, no? Pakistan has not stabilized rather it adopted a very dangerous route which has negatively affected Pashtuns. Why you are overlooking this issue is beyond me. At least be intellectually honest, if not with us, then with yourself.

So why don't you stand along side us, if we are willingly a part of it?

1. Are you denying that your leaders invited Rosyan willingly.

2. Are you denying that many of your current govt and some people even here on forum defending presence of peerangyaan (in this case all kinds of peerangyan ranging from brits to yankees to german and so) Dont you see why so many countries joined hand against us????????????

3. My difference with your opinion is that you see selectively. Do accept the reality that CIA/Amreeka and all of them have a solid role in everything going on in Afghanistan.

[Nadir Shah]

[/COLOR]
[/B]
Forget about the punjabis or mohajirs or for that matter what aliens say.


Keeping in view the red highlighted parts in above post of yours i am asking so you support presence of US/NATO/ISAF in Afghanistan????


[B]

When Afghanistan is free and independent then do go to UN and ask for referendum or whatever and whatever will be the result we will know what is the situation. for the time being it doesnt matter what you or me saying on forums.

I support the presence of ISAF/NATO/UN forces in Afghanistan till the time the Afghan Republic and it's institutions such as the Afghan National Army are strong and stable enough to ensure the security and stability of Afghanistan and till all the threats to the security and integrity of Afghanistan (eg Pakistan) are neutralized.

We do not need a referendum, I guess. The way things are moving it seems a reality that Pakistan would be forced to concede certain things.

[Jana]

The lack of political cohesion or the instability in government functioning of a country does not warrant for another country to try to occupy or manipulate it. If, for exapmle, the army were to move in on Islamabad. Would India be justified in invading Pakistan or financing rebels in Pakistan? The same is true in case of the Saur Revolution and Pakistan.

Look who's talking? You should first think of the failed, dysfunctional, ethincally fractures, economically suicidal and terrorist and seperatist ridden Pakistan before pointing fingers.

Wrong comparison. If Afghan army was to move in, in own country then why would a second country try to occupy you? And when was the last time we INVADED Afghanistan???


And my comment about lack of political cohesion was not any justification for any third forth country's involvment rather it was in context of the situation that you guys have no tolerance for power structure for different local groups how can you accept Pashtuns from Pakistan and where will we stand if at all we decided to join Afghanistan.

[Nadir Shah]

1. Are you denying that your leaders invited Rosyan willingly.

2. Are you denying that many of your current govt and some people even here on forum defending presence of peerangyaan (in this case all kinds of peerangyan ranging from brits to yankees to german and so) Dont you see why so many countries joined hand against us????????????

3. My difference with your opinion is that you see selectively. Do accept the reality that CIA/Amreeka and all of them have a solid role in everything going on in Afghanistan.

1. The Khalq government of Afghanistan invited the Soviet Union to Afghanistan on the 21st of Dec 1979 and the first Soviet troops landed on Afghan soil on the 27th of Dec, 1979, while the Saur Revolution took place on the 27th of April, 1978. In between, Pakistan was helping rebels against the Socialist government in Afghanistan with the support of Americans. This fact has been admitted by both Robert Gates and Joseph Brizneskie.

2 We consider Pakistan to be the biggest threat to the stability of Afghanistan followed by Iran. The presence of ISAF/NATO is a necessary evil till Afghanistan can look after its own security needs.

[Nadir Shah]

Wrong comparison. If Afghan army was to move in, in own country then why would a second country try to occupy you? And when was the last time we INVADED Afghanistan???


And my comment about lack of political cohesion was not any justification for any third forth country's involvment rather it was in context of the situation that you guys have no tolerance for power structure for different local groups how can you accept Pashtuns from Pakistan and where will we stand if at all we decided to join Afghanistan.

Then how do you justify Pakistani involvment in Afghanistan in the period 1979-present in general and between 27-4-78 and 27-12-79 in particular?

Who are these you guys? Afghanistan had a working constitutional monarchy from 1936-1973 and a 1st republic from 1973-1978 and a second republic from 1978-1992. How can you call that a power vaccum?
What do you mean by 'no tolerance for local groups'? Who are these local groups?

[Jana]

I support the presence of ISAF/NATO/UN forces in Afghanistan till the time the Afghan Republic and it's institutions such as the Afghan National Army are strong and stable enough to ensure the security and stability of Afghanistan and till all the threats to the security and integrity of Afghanistan (eg Pakistan) are neutralized.

So you need outsiders for stability ? what then you are for?

BTW earlier i was against occupation of Afghanistan by NATO/US but after reading many things on this forum well the better US stay the better it will be for us. We would not have any problem in US being in Afghanistan but rather Russia, Iran will also not close their eyes towards it.

We do not need a referendum, I guess. The way things are moving it seems a reality that Pakistan would be forced to concede certain things.

That aint going to be happen by propaganda churning machines some paid ones while sitting in UK, US, Germany and so on are doing.


I can clearly see why some want us to be with Afghanistan because by comparing all ethnic groups in Afghanistan, all other groups if united will outclass Pashtuns there in any political system.

[Nadir Shah]

So you need outsiders for stability ? what then you are for?

BTW earlier i was against occupation of Afghanistan by NATO/US but after reading many things on this forum well the better US stay the better it will be for us. We would not have any problem in US being in Afghanistan but rather Russia, Iran will also not close their eyes towards it.





That aint going to be happen by propaganda churning machines some paid ones while sitting in UK, US, Germany and so on are doing.


I can clearly see why some want us to be with Afghanistan because by comparing all ethnic groups in Afghanistan, all other groups if united will outclass Pashtuns there in any political system.

Pakistan and its proxies destroyed all the state institutions of Afghanistan during the period 1992-2001. This is a period of rebuilding in Afghanistan. And who are you to say this? Pakistan has always been the client servile state of the US in the region against Communism. It's economy is supported by the Christian US/EU/IMF and it's military is taking 1.5 b $ annually from the same 'Crusaders'. Please read what Henry Kissinger said at the time of the 1971 war.

How can the other ethnic groups overcome Pashtuns? and why would they do so?

[Jana]

1. The Khalq government of Afghanistan invited the Soviet Union to Afghanistan on the 21st of Dec 1979 and the first Soviet troops landed on Afghan soil on the 27th of Dec, 1979, while the Saur Revolution took place on the 27th of April, 1978. In between, Pakistan was helping rebels against the Socialist government in Afghanistan with the support of Americans. This fact has been admitted by both Robert Gates and Joseph Brizneskie.

Where does it prove that Pakistan invaded Afghanistan.

2 We consider Pakistan to be the biggest threat to the stability of Afghanistan followed by Iran.

And we consider pro-Hindu, Pro-Russian Afghanistan as biggest threat to stability of Pakistan. SO its a two-way traffic. We can not move on the basis of emotionalism, Every country has to move according to geo-political scenario.

The presence of ISAF/NATO is a necessary evil till Afghanistan can look after its own security needs.

Seriously speaking presence of any other country in Afghanistan is not GOOD what soever is the reason. an evil is an evil you can not bank on it even for stability.

The alliance of NATO countries for that matter US is NOT at all in Afghanistan out of love for you or me. Every service or deal has a cost so you can not deny that US will bring stability without serving its own interests.

[Nadir Shah]

Where does it prove that Pakistan invaded Afghanistan.

Pakistan was funding the rebels in Afghanistan before the Soviets were involved. and even before that the 1975 coup against Sardar Dawud in Kunar was orchestrated in Rawalpindi by the ISI. How do you rationalize this?

And we consider pro-Hindu, Pro-Russian Afghanistan as biggest threat to stability of Pakistan. SO its a two-way traffic. We can not move on the basis of emotionalism, Every country has to move according to geo-political scenario.

Firstly, the stability of Pakistan is not an issue for the Pashtuns. If Pakistan cannot reconcile itself with the idea of an independent, democratic and free Afghanistan, then Pakistan's place in the region becomes doubtful.
Furthermore, why were some groups in Afghanistan forced to look to India or Russia? Because Pakistan was funding and supporting mercenaries and anti-Afghan and anti-Afghan state forces in Afghanistan. It is only justified that they look to other sources to save the Afghan state. Thirdly, India has been a partner in the development and re-construction of Afghanistan while Pakistan has only sent terrorists and suicide bombers to Afghanistan. You would surely understand if Afghanistan chooses India over Pakistan.

Seriously speaking presence of any other country in Afghanistan is not GOOD what soever is the reason. an evil is an evil you can not bank on it even for stability.

The alliance of NATO countries for that matter US is NOT at all in Afghanistan out of love for you or me. Every service or deal has a cost so you can not deny that US will bring stability without serving its own interests.

We all know the many pretences of the US very well. We are under no illusion as regards the motives of the US but for the forseeable future, the interests of Afghanistan and the US are complementary.

[Jana]

Pakistan and its proxies destroyed all the state institutions of Afghanistan during the period 1992-2001. This is a period of rebuilding in Afghanistan. And who are you to say this?

Care to prove what state institutions Afghanistan had during the period of 92-2001 other than disintegration of Afghan political system. Pakistan was under US sanctions and was struggling with own political mess after Zia's death.


During the period before Taliban or say from 1991 after disintegration of USSR completely the race between Bridas and Unocal for laying hands on the oil treasure of newly independent Central Asian countries, started and here we see all the regional countries along with US, Saudi Arabia jumped in with its oil companies for getting a share. We had no issue with Rabbani Govt till then as we were also part of that 30-year accord for oil supply through Afghanisran, Pakistan by Bridas signed with Rabbani govt.


But US played a role to destroy the deal and Unocal was imposed on all of us.

By 94-95 this race turned into other proxies and Taliban almost started occupying many areas. So tell me what institutions during Taliban era till 2001 were functioning properly that were destroyed.

Pakistan has always been the client servile state of the US in the region against Communism. It's economy is supported by the

Christian US/EU/IMF and it's military is taking 1.5 b $ annually from the same 'Crusaders'. Please read what Henry Kissinger said at the time of the 1971 war.

What is difference between you and us?? The same aid by Christians, jews, tom and harry is feeding people of Afghanistan since long

How can the other ethnic groups overcome Pashtuns? and why would they do so?

[Jana]

Pakistan was funding the rebels in Afghanistan before the Soviets were involved. and even before that the 1975 coup against Sardar Dawud in Kunar was orchestrated in Rawalpindi by the ISI. How do you rationalize this?

Rebels ??? What rebels at the time when Daud had love-hate relation with Khalqi and Parchami.

The coup was the wish of the victims of crimes by Daud and sadly his killing also took place at the hands of own military. dont tell me that people were all happy with Daud.

Firstly, the stability of Pakistan is not an issue for the Pashtuns. If Pakistan cannot reconcile itself with the idea of an independent, democratic and free Afghanistan, then Pakistan's place in the region becomes doubtful.

Stability of Pakistan is very much an issue of Pakistani Pashtuns as well as Afghan Pashtuns for there is no other country that will support Pashtuns against other groups. And if it was not Pakistan then by now Afghan Pashtuns will have been ruled by Punjsheris which btw you dont want in the first place.

Furthermore, why were some groups in Afghanistan forced to look to India or Russia? Because Pakistan was funding and supporting mercenaries and anti-Afghan and anti-Afghan state forces in Afghanistan. It is only justified that they look to other sources to save the Afghan state.

Pakistan supported all groups including that of Ahmad Shah Masood. The Northern Alliance was formed after the withdrawal of USSR by then all of these groups were our boys but when fight between North and Pashtuns for power started then NA sided with Pro-India, pro-Russia elements whereas Pakistan sided with Pashtun groups. We did have some mistakes and one of these were that some of our idiots have let go Ahmad Shah Masood although personally i believe we should have him by our side even after Soviet withdrawal

Thirdly, India has been a partner in the development and re-construction of Afghanistan while Pakistan has only sent terrorists and suicide bombers to Afghanistan. You would surely understand if Afghanistan chooses India over Pakistan.

WRONG. If india was so much in love with you then why it did not raise voice or even invested for Afghan people during Taliban era. why it always jumped in using shoulders of Russia and recently US. Almost all their investment is based on their strategic interests.


As far as Pakistan is concerned we are bearing one of the largest refugees in the world uptill now. Your dearest US and other aid group when winded up their support even then we have been bearing the burden.

besides Pakistani investment in Afghanistan is not less important its another matter that our govt is silly to understand the propaganda stunts, so they failed to send buses with Pakistani label.

We all know the many pretences of the US very well. We are under no illusion as regards the motives of the US but for the forseeable future, the interests of Afghanistan and the US are complementary.

So as they say in need you can shake hands with anyone then why the hue and cry when we are doing the same.


How would you justify US presence to Afghan people? can you make them realise the above point?

[Shayesta]

zka chay da AFGHAN takay da Farsi da...

Pukhtana tool Islamic noemuna (names) lare, yane Arabi noemuna. No bia da dagha mana lari che mung Arabian yu? Afghaan bas yaw teka neda, Afghaan yaw noem aw yaw nishan dai che zemung baba worta jangedeli di.

Pakistan zindabad. No country is Islamic like Pakistan. look at our madrasahs and etc.

Jokes aside, why on earth do I have the feeling you might not be a Pakistani, but just someone who tries to make fun of Pakistan and Pakistanis?

Wait for that one day and trust me when that one day we Pakistani Pashtuns who are fighting on behalf of Afghanistan's people in Afghanistan against all invaders then trust me we have the guts to fight for our own country too.

Ehh, so what you are trying to say is first you gonna fight for Afghanistan's 'freedom' and then fight for your Pakistan, and yet love Pakistan more than Afghanistan? Is this even supposed to make sense?

Even if they are from KP then there thousands who are much happy in Pakistan rather being in Afghanistan

And once again you start your cheap talks by dragging Afghanistan into a discussion going between you, a Pukhtoon from Pakhtunkhwa, and Maseed, another Pukhtoon from Pakhtunkhwa.

[B]
Aw yawa bala khabara Afghan wazir paron wayalay dee chee hagha UK ta rawan day aw the mineral extraction da para ba da UK pa mashwara amal kawee.

Again, cheap talk, dragging Afghanistan in a discussion about Pakhtunkhwa/Pakistan.

Afghanistan blames everything on others but failed to see that why they did not have the same sincerity to get united for the development of the country.

And this is coming from a national of a country who blames 'Indian agents' for disunity in Pakhtunkhwa, Balochistan and Karachi, but rubbishes those who say disunity amongst Afghans was brought by Pakistani government? Oh puh-lease!

Are you denying that your leaders invited Rosyan willingly.

First of all, don't make the same mistake towards BLS wror (like you did with Farhan wror) by thinking he is an Afghan national or doesn't belong to Pakhtunkhwa, because he 100% belongs to Pakhtunkhwa and you can ask plenty of members here the same who know him personally as well. If you don't want to be called 'an Pakistani army's daughter' for siding Pakistani interest, then don't tag anyone else as 'an Afghan national hiding under Pakhtunkhwa's veil' for siding Pukhtoon interest. Thank you. And second of all, so you admit Afghans themselves invited Russians to Afghanistan? In that case, what on mother earth made you think we brought them to Afghanistan to fight against them? And why are your people spreading the crap you helped us from 'Russian influence'? I mean, we ourselves invited them, right? Then what makes you say you saved us from people we wanted to be on our land?

Are you denying that many of your current govt and some people even here on forum defending presence of peerangyaan (in this case all kinds of peerangyan ranging from brits to yankees to german and so)

If your creation a.k.a. Taliban hadn't deceived and mistreated minorities in Afghanistan, then today it would have them loving and siding with Pakistan. You had loads of chances to make Afghanistan a friend my dear, but that was never in your interest. Until today, when you yourself are in even bigger sh*t than Afghanistan. At least in North of our country bombs don't fly over and economics is getting better and better there.

My difference with your opinion is that you see selectively. Do accept the reality that CIA/Amreeka and all of them have a solid role in everything going on in Afghanistan.

If your country never had sided them, it wouldn't have been that easy for USA to complete it's aim and you know this damn well. So indeed, do accept the reality.

And we consider pro-Hindu, Pro-Russian Afghanistan as biggest threat to stability of Pakistan.

Okay, now listen to me and you listen to me very carefully; If you today once and for all stop interfering with Kashmir, tomorrow India will forget that a country named Pakistan even exists. They already got Bangladesh away from you and if your country doesn't get over Kashmir today, then tomorrow Balochistan will follow. And as far as Russia is concerned, Russia never was interested in Pakistan and they never saw Pakistan as an enemy or threat. Since last few years USA is begging Russia to come to Southern Afghanistan to fight the Taliban and if Russia truly was your enemy and wanted to occur a danger for you or take revenge, then today they would have shifted to South of Afghanistan and could bomb your entire Pakhtunkhwa and make your government believe this is either an American or Indian conspiracy. You mean absolutely nothing to Russia and nor ever have so don't act as if Russia is even a bit interested in your country. Because they are not.

What is difference between you and us?? The same aid by Christians, jews, tom and harry is feeding people of Afghanistan since long

And what does 'since long' mean in your dictionary? You have been fed by them since your creation 63 years ago, we also been fed by them since our independence nearly three centuries ago? We are getting military supplies because our army isn't even well trained yet, what about your army which is said to be one of the strongest army and yet reliable on American aid? Don't even dare to compare Pakistan and Afghanistan on level of aid because even my own Pakistani boss, half Punjabi and half Kashmiri, refers to his nation as a 'begging nation'.

dont tell me that people were all happy with Daud.

Talk to as many Afghans as you can in real life about Daud Khan and I promise you that this will be their answer; 'After Daud Khan's fall, Afghanistan got destroyed.' Go an, I dare you.

And if it was not Pakistan then by now Afghan Pashtuns will have been ruled by Punjsheris which btw you dont want in the first place.

LOOOOOL! Till the day of today you yourself couldn't get out of Punjabi slavery, and you actually claim to free Pukhtoons in Afghanistan from Panjsheris who never even interest in ruling over us!? Bahahahahahaha! And don't worry, even dogs of Panjsheris are much more merciful and helpful than Pakistanis who fake well-being of Afghanistan.

when fight between North and Pashtuns for power started then NA sided with Pro-India, pro-Russia elements whereas Pakistan sided with Pashtun groups.

Oh is it? Is that the reason you supported killing of Mohammad Najibullah?; A Pukhtoon?

If india was so much in love with you then why it did not raise voice or even invested for Afghan people during Taliban era. Almost all their investment is based on their strategic interests.

Tell me, you seriously believe your 'friends' like China, Saudi, etcetera will ever raise voice against anyone oppressing Pakistan? I don't think so, back then Afghans themselves got in trouble for fighting the Taliban and you expect Indians to step into the very same fire? Unlike Pakistanis, they don't enjoy meddling and interfering. That's why they got much more friends than you will ever have.

[Feroza_Banu]

i don't get it why people from across the border thinks they can talk about afghan and afghanistan .... and here dear nokia sahab doesn't even wanna be called afghan... as if afghans have begged him to call himself one...

afghanistan has enough people that feel proud to call themselves afghans...we don't need anyone else... stay under panjabi rule if u are happy... we could care less... our beautiful afghanistan has pashtoons, tajiks, hazara, uzbek, pashayee, noristani, sikhs, and many more ethnicities... if pashtoons from other sides of the border wants to join this diverse afghanistan then they are more than welcome to... if not and they are happy under panjo rulling government... then we are happy for them...