Taleban are Pakistan's Army Proxies not Pashtun Nationalists

[Khostai]

You can argue what you like peopel, but the ones who expirienced talibs knows the truth, so before praising them get a reality check please.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you are too big of a liar and dishonest as usual.

the governor tried to hush the news but knowing the news has come out he tried to do damage control by saying it was a lone soldier suffering from mental illness.
he didnt say what the villagers were claiming so that news in itself was a coverup and damage control.

i understand it hurts you that your "evidence from the horse's mouth" turned out to be another fake.
yes and turned out that i was right and this guy was lying and it turned out to be that way.

why is it so hrd fo you to understand the Afghan view intsead pushing your foreign narrative?

the Afghans said it were more than 20 soldiers and that is what i believe ,close the investigation.


hope you do understand Pashto,i doubt you do.
http://www.pashtunforums.com/showthread.php?t=26958

Your narrative itself is a foreign narrative so how can it be an Afghan narrative? where does it indicate the Governor tried to prevent the media from knowing this or that the Provincial Council tried to do the same? This is something you're adding on. It's called Spin doctoring. If anyone has lied or been deceptive here, it would be you in this case.The link you posted also has nothing indicating that the governor tried to stop the media from knowing nor anything about the provincial council

Don't pull that "do you know Pashto?" angle with me, you tried doing that with Mullah Azizullah and Mullah Noorul Aziz Agha; when you were praising and defending them in your former ID as Graveyardofempires. After you found out they both affirmed that Pakistan manipulates the Taliban, you changed your tune. So it didn't turn out "you were right"; it turned out that he was saying the exact opposite of the agenda to propagate propaganda in favor of the Taliban; so in actually it was back firing on you not anyone else. This is more evident now. There is a search button and an entire record of your smokescreening tactics on this site sir.

[Karpo]

Your narrative itself is a foreign narrative so how can it be an Afghan narrative? where does it indicate the Governor tried to prevent the media from knowing this or that the Provincial Council tried to do the same? This is something you're adding on. It's called Spin doctoring. If anyone has lied or been deceptive here, it would be you in this case.The link you posted also has nothing indicating that the governor tried to stop the media from knowing nor anything about the provincial council

Don't pull that "do you know Pashto?" angle with me, you tried doing that with Mullah Azizullah and Mullah Noorul Aziz Agha; when you were praising and defending them in your former ID as Graveyardofempires. After you found out they both affirmed that Pakistan manipulates the Taliban, you changed your tune. So it didn't turn out "you were right"; it turned out that he was saying the exact opposite of the agenda to propagate propaganda in favor of the Taliban; so in actually it was back firing on you not anyone else. This is more evident now. There is a search button and an entire record of your smokescreening tactics on this site sir.

My dear friend,

You are summarily refuted here with facts, and this is very very recent news. None of these characters were ever Taliban as the New York Times (Western news source since that in some peoples eyes is more credible unfortunately)
In regards to the Agha character, quite an actor he indeed is, He should have got an Oscar.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/wo...ef=afghanistan

In Struggle With Taliban, on Guard for Charlatans

By ROD NORDLAND and ALISSA J. RUBIN

KABUL, Afghanistan — In an insurgency, everyone is an imposter. The enemy wears no uniform and carries no identity card.
Just so with a mullah in Kandahar named Noorul Aziz. After trading his job as a Taliban commander for a cushy post as an Afghan government official, the story goes, he was taken last month by the military coalition on a tour of his old bases, where he made speeches to persuade the locals not to support the insurgency.
Except the locals say they never heard of him.
Then there was the Afghan “senator” who instead may have been a Taliban operative. In January, he conned his way into getting a V.I.P. tour of some of the most secret locations in Kandahar, with briefings from the American-backed provincial governor, Tooryalai Wesa, the local head of the Afghan intelligence service and the governor of the strategic district of Dand.
He did not even bother to adopt a real senator’s name. “There was no senator by that name in the entire senate,” said Bismillah Afghanmal, who is a real senator, from Kandahar.
These are hardly isolated cases. In September, a man posing as a Taliban peace envoy traveled from Kandahar to Kabul to meet the head of the High Peace Council, and used a bomb hidden in his turban to assassinate him. The year before, a scammer who persuaded the Americans that he was a high-ranking Taliban official who wanted to talk peace was flown in by a NATO helicopter to meet with President Hamid Karzai, and paid handsomely for his time. In late 2009, a CIA informer who turned out to be a Qaeda plant killed eight people in a suicide attack at an agency outpost.
Mr. Aziz, the supposed Taliban commander, showed up in Kandahar last year with 30 armed men and a letter from the Taliban leadership in Pakistan showing that he had just been appointed the shadow governor of Kunduz Province in the north.
His story was that he did not like it up north so was turning himself in as part of the government’s reintegration program, in which former Taliban fighters are offered access to community and jobs programs. The reintegration program has been off to a slow start, so to get a shadow governor of a province to walk in was a big deal. Governor Wesa and other officials greeted him with bear hugs.
In southern Afghanistan, officials say fewer than 300 Taliban insurgents have turned themselves in under the two-year-old program; many are believed to be opportunists looking for government handouts.
“We have two kinds of Taliban, fake Taliban and real Taliban,” Amanullah Hotaki, the chairman of the Oruzgan Provincial Council, said of those who have turned themselves in there. “The fake are 60 or 70, but the real ones are only five.”
In an interview last year, Mr. Aziz insisted he had been the Taliban commander in the district of Nad Ali in Helmand Province, once one of the most violent places in Afghanistan.
Elders there, however, said they had never heard of him. “We don’t know a Taliban commander by the name of Noorul Aziz,” said Haji Mirwais Khan, a tribal elder. “Maybe he has been called by a pseudonym?”
Western military intelligence officials have also cast doubt on Mr. Aziz’s bona fides. “We don’t know who he is,” said one.
Nonetheless, after his surrender, Mr. Aziz managed to become the provincial director of the Department of Hajj and Religious Affairs, a plum job that in many parts of Afghanistan has been a font of corruption. He was appointed by Governor Wesa, who reportedly also arranged the visit of the mysterious non-senator.
In the senator case, a man calling himself Muhammad Asif Sarhadi said he was a senator from Ghor Province who wanted to start a new museum and open a Kandahar branch. The governor, according to local officials, then gave him introductions to district officials, where he met with police, intelligence and government officials.
“He was not here officially and we did not deal with him officially,” said Zalmai Ayoubi, a spokesman for Governor Wesa. He conceded, however, that “Mr. Sarhadi” talked with officials about security issues as well as museums.
Mr. Aziz, the supposed former Taliban, went on tour last week in Helmand Province, visiting what he said were his former bases from his insurgency days, and meeting NATO coalition soldiers there.
“Meeting face to face with a former Taliban commander gave me mixed feelings to begin with,” said Maj. Kaido Kivistik, commander of an Estonian Army company.
Mixed feelings about Mr. Aziz are common. “We don’t know him, “ said Qari Yusuf Ahmadi, the spokesman for the Taliban in southern Afghanistan. “He’s a sick man and he’s an imposter.”
Emma Watkins, a spokeswoman for the southwest regional command of the NATO-led coalition, which includes Helmand, disputed that Mr. Aziz was not genuine. “I am informed that Mr. Aziz continues to be the director of Haj in Kandahar and in particular he made a speech at the Kandahar peace conference in September last year,” she said.
Turning against the Taliban, whether sincerely or not, has become something of a family business for Mr. Aziz, who was rewarded with a house, bodyguards, money and a job. At least four of his brothers and a father have also turned themselves in — one of them, Abdul Aziz Agha, claimed to have been the Taliban commander in Panjway District, a Taliban stronghold just outside of Kandahar.
In Panjway, no one had ever heard of Mr. Agha, either.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

My dear friend,

You are summarily refuted here with facts, and this is very very recent news. None of these characters were ever Taliban as the New York Times (Western news source since that in some peoples eyes is more credible unfortunately)
In regards to the Agha character, quite an actor he indeed is, He should have got an Oscar.

.

Not exactly; this is only saying that the people in question never heard of them; according to one commentor, they may have used pseudonyms


The comment alone nullifies your claim; since if he was a "Shadow Governor" this would seem reasonable.

Looks like the summary refutation, ended up refuting itself.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you clearly dont know what you are talking about and your tactic is lying as much as possible.

ive already told you what your problem but you are just making **** up as you go.Stick to the subject and watch the video which is in pashto.
if you understood pashto (which you dont)you would understand that the governor did do that and it is said by the relatives and elders of the victims.

your narrative is not just foreign but plain wrong and full of lies.
your tactis are no different than malakandghar or soldat boy,they use the terms Islamism and wahabi to attack the Afghan way of life and you being a mutazillah are dooing the same.

I posted a link where you actually featured a video with the Noorul Aziz Agha doing an interview, in the interview he affirms the Taliban were being used and manipulated. You then went on to thank Qunduz89 for defending this guy and were telling others the stuff he was saying regarding the Taliban being used by Pakistan was faulty. and that the person had to "read between the lines". It is all there, your own thread, just follow the link in the last post.

So if my argument is foreign and plain wrong; why do all the sources and EVEN your own affirmation of other peoples narrations say otherwise? You're back peddling

The sneakiest tactic of a liar is to start accusing everyone else of doing it.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

you are clearly a waste man who thinks when one of his lies is refuted he will jump and create another one and than another one and have a long discussion and at the end pad himself on the back to feel good about himself.

you clearly have some issues that your mutazillah biased view is considered of any value when talking against genuine honest Afghans who know the ground realities.

What refutation? I am still waiting for a cogent refutation, even the article by Karpo isn't "solid" since it argues the possibility of Taliban commanders using pseudonyms.

this isn't about you or I or who wins a debate, this is about how Taliban will do morally reprehensible things things like use children. This does not make me feel good about myself , but rather bad because individuals like you have no scruples but will support the Taliban anyways no matter what crimes they do. This is about your willingness to deceive anyone or portray anyone who has legitimate criticisms against the Taliban's criminal acts as kowtowing imperialism; when it is actually quite the opposite

Let me ask you this, if the Taliban themselves told you they use children as suicide bombers would you still support them? yes or no?

[Karpo]

Not exactly; this is only saying that the people in question never heard of them; according to one commentor, they may have used pseudonyms


The comment alone nullifies your claim; since if he was a "Shadow Governor" this would seem reasonable.

Looks like the summary refutation, ended up refuting itself.

The fact is Noor Agha was and still is a Taliban imposter/ a charlatan.

I stick to facts, not conspiracy

[Karpo]

Most of the press coverage for the Taliban "surrendering" themselves to the karzai government happens in Herat. Thats a laugh

“We have two kinds of Taliban, fake Taliban and real Taliban,” Amanullah Hotaki, the chairman of the Oruzgan Provincial Council, said of those who have turned themselves in there. “The fake are 60 or 70, but the real ones are only five.”

[RevolutionThroughReason]

The fact is Noor Agha was and still is a Taliban imposter/ a charlatan.

I stick to facts, not conspiracy

the claim that he wasn't a Taliban JUST because others haven't heard his name and that Qari Ahmed Yousaf says he wasn't IS a conspiracy.

As YOUR OWN source said, perhaps he used a pseudonym. As a "Shadow Governor" using pseudonyms would work as you're a "shadow governor" no conspiracy about that. That's a common sense thing; and if your understanding doesn't follow logic, it's not factual.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Most of the press coverage for the Taliban "surrendering" themselves to the karzai government happens in Herat. Thats a laugh

“We have two kinds of Taliban, fake Taliban and real Taliban,” Amanullah Hotaki, the chairman of the Oruzgan Provincial Council, said of those who have turned themselves in there. “The fake are 60 or 70, but the real ones are only five.”

He doesn't specify which ones are fake and which ones are real though. You have no smoking gun

[Old School Killiwal]

obviously taliban are not nationalists.

nationalism aka fasicm/racism is false and shallow. protecting your people is not.

[khushal]

There is so much corruption going in Afghanistan that it is unreal. When they propose Taliban fighters surrender in exchange for financial incentive. Regular villigers just go up to the governmnet and tell them we are surrendering, where is the money. And the governmnent officials are in on the whole scam. usually it is there relative or someone from their own village.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

usually it is their relatives? any statistical analysis to corroborate this?

[khushal]

In Afghanistan, whenever there is money involved, it automatically involves a scam and the victims are American Tax payers. Even the Translators that go to Afghanistan is rife with scams. Most of those translators cant translate worth Sh*t. One soldier told me that there was an afghan lady translator from the states who was wearing an oxygen mask. He told her to get the hell out of here, are we supposed to carry you everywhere.

The proof is that when billions are spent but nothing is built translates to scam.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

Not seeing a statistical analysis; just a narrative