if you have any questions to the taliban here you can ask them!!

[faye]

cop out!!! yes or no, me ole mate. come on now, stop beating around the pp.

[SUMMERLOVE]

^ do you refridgerate your pee before drinking or....?

[khushal]

that's all well and good, now if you would show a source that corroborates your apologetics., and random pictures of beardless Talibs isnt evidence, since ultra zealous types are known to have hypocrites.

It is simple logic. I know afghanistan, the whats and the whys. I would say 40% men in my village were clean shaved, we had a girls school, and people were playing music and celebrating weddings like they always have. The people in my village were and still are armed to the teeth.

but here is the link that the vice and virtue police were only in kabul and even in kabul you could get away with a clean shaved face if you avoided that specific police, the regular talib police and troops didnt really care.
http://www.merip.org/mero/mero070600
In Kabul, considered in direst need of moral reform by the Taliban, authorities keep close watch on the officially sanctioned primary and secondary education for girls in mosque schools, and obstruct informal home tutoring.
In the countryside, far from the eyes of the vice and virtue men, families can set up home schooling for girls with the support of village elders and tribal leaders. International NGOs help to fund some of this informal education, often with UN support and some form of official approval. The NGOs supply textbooks and blackboards, train teachers and in some cases pay them a salary of about $40 a month, ten times the salary in state-run schools

[faye]

^ do you refridgerate your pee before drinking or....?

freeze it. make ice-blocks. want some?

[RevolutionThroughReason]

It is simple logic. I know afghanistan, the whats and the whys. I would say 40% men in my village were clean shaved, we had a girls school, and people were playing music and celebrating weddings like they always have. The people in my village were and still are armed to the teeth.

but here is the link that the vice and virtue police were only in kabul and even in kabul you could get away with a clean shaved face if you avoided that specific police, the regular talib police and troops didnt really care.
http://www.merip.org/mero/mero070600
In Kabul, considered in direst need of moral reform by the Taliban, authorities keep close watch on the officially sanctioned primary and secondary education for girls in mosque schools, and obstruct informal home tutoring.
In the countryside, far from the eyes of the vice and virtue men, families can set up home schooling for girls with the support of village elders and tribal leaders. International NGOs help to fund some of this informal education, often with UN support and some form of official approval. The NGOs supply textbooks and blackboards, train teachers and in some cases pay them a salary of about $40 a month, ten times the salary in state-run schools

There is no rule in Logic that says Khushal's statements are bonafide evidence; try again. the link you posted wasn't that a confirmation that they ONLY restricted it in Kabul; it says in the country side were out of the reach of the Taliban. This makes perfect sense since the Taliban didn't have enough man power to cover the whole country with enforcers. This is not reflective of their policy however.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

We have to use logic here. The Taliban were protecting things that they thought were important. The protection of women by keeping them in the home or being escorted by related males. They were protecting in their own way the traditional family.

Even here in the states there is the debate going on about gay marriages. Most of those people that are against gay marriages dont really care about what a man does with another man in the privacy of their own bedroom. Most of those same people would defend that privacy right to the death. But the thing they are concerned about is protecting an institution called family, the traditional family. They view that gay marriage is a threat to the traditional family. Most of the proponents of gay marriage say that it is no ones business who a person should marry but the two individuals themselves. The former is being portrayed as backward and ones that infringe on others rights.

That's not logic; women starving and having to turn to prostitution because they couldnt make income is not protecting women. especially in regards to widows. So this claim of protecting the traditional family is logically unsubstantiated.

Please don't mindlessly toss around the word "Logic" merely because you see me or someone else say it. Logic requires qualification; you can't just use the word and without it being substantiated.

[khushal]

There is no rule in Logic that says Khushal's statements are bonafide evidence; try again. the link you posted wasn't that a confirmation that they ONLY restricted it in Kabul; it says in the country side were out of the reach of the Taliban. This makes perfect sense since the Taliban didn't have enough man power to cover the whole country with enforcers. This is not reflective of their policy however.

what are you talking about. it says that it was out of reach from the vice and virtue police. they were a different police force who had specific duties. there were tlaiban out in the country side.
you are not interested in truth, you want to make your own version of events.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

that still doesn't mean they had by policy only restricted things to Kabul. 50,000 arent enough to police All of Afghanistan. Your statement is NOT truth and your references don't confirm your statement. So it's not a lack of interest in truth, you're only saying this because I made a similar remark against you earlier. This is about your evidence and your statements not matching up. So if there's someone not interested in truth and painting their own description of events here then it is you.

[khushal]

That's not logic; women starving and having to turn to prostitution because they couldnt make income is not protecting women. especially in regards to widows. So this claim of protecting the traditional family is logically unsubstantiated.

Please don't mindlessly toss around the word "Logic" merely because you see me or someone else say it. Logic requires qualification; you can't just use the word and without it being substantiated.

the starvation happened because of no foreign aid and the drought. the only reason kabulis were being fed in the past was because of soviet foreign aid and today is becasue of american foreign aid. Its difficult for the afghan economy to feed its people with access to the ocean. pakistan has the upper hand becasue pakistan has afghanistans econmy as hostage.
prostitution was rampant during soviet times and even today.

[khushal]

that still doesn't mean they had by policy only restricted things to Kabul. 50,000 arent enough to police All of Afghanistan. Your statement is NOT truth and your references don't confirm your statement. So it's not a lack of interest in truth, you're only saying this because I made a similar remark against you earlier. This is about your evidence and your statements not matching up. So if there's someone not interested in truth and painting their own description of events here then it is you.

You make no sense. I said the banning was enforced in kabul by vice and virtue police, you asked me for evidence, i provided and you still make excuses by saying that it was enforced in kabul because they did not have the man power otherwise it would have been enforced everywhere.

you have never been to afghanistan. one thing you should get out of this conversation is that it is very difficult to enforce any law in rural afghanistan and that includes FATA in pakistan. The Soviets had 200,000 troops, hundreds of thousands of afghan troops at their side and couldnt enforce anything, the Americans have 160,000+, 300,000 ANA troops and hundreds of thousands of more armed contractors and they also cant enforce anything in rural afghanistan. The Taliban were no different, they could not do it.
As mostafa1919 has said when his father was going through a taliban road block in the east of the country when a talib told him that he would look stronger if he had a beard, the father said we are strong with a beard or beardless. They like everyone else couldnt do sh*t in rural afghansitan. In kabul it would have been a different matter.

[RevolutionThroughReason]

the starvation happened because of no foreign aid and the drought. the only reason kabulis were being fed in the past was because of soviet foreign aid and today is becasue of american foreign aid. Its difficult for the afghan economy to feed its people with access to the ocean. pakistan has the upper hand becasue pakistan has afghanistans econmy as hostage.
prostitution was rampant during soviet times and even today.

Foreign Aid and Drought was a general cause for lack of resources for society as a whole; the other factor was the Taliban preventing women in particular from acquiring whatever little resources were available to be able to feed themselves. You would think if the international community was barring Afghanistan from accessing resources; the Taliban would have actually been MORE LENIENT and understanding considering the situation. So much for logic eh?

Whether prostitution existed during the Soviet era is irrelevant since the Soviets curtailed resources then too. By Logic this would mean the increased scarcity due to Taliban oppression would thus increase prostitution. forcing MORE women into it. especially iin a conservative society like AFghanistan, such acts only occur out of desperation;not desirability as it would be in America..

[Catya Sher]

I didn't waste time reading every post when the discussion started to
deteriorate a ways back,
but was the Answer to Maiwand's excellent and sincere questions
translated by anyone ?

There be many students out there who have the same questions
but are afraid to contact the site directly.

[khushal]

Foreign Aid and Drought was a general cause for lack of resources for society as a whole; the other factor was the Taliban preventing women in particular from acquiring whatever little resources were available to be able to feed themselves. You would think if the international community was barring Afghanistan from accessing resources; the Taliban would have actually been MORE LENIENT and understanding considering the situation. So much for logic eh?

Whether prostitution existed during the Soviet era is irrelevant since the Soviets curtailed resources then too. By Logic this would mean the increased scarcity due to Taliban oppression would thus increase prostitution. forcing MORE women into it. especially iin a conservative society like AFghanistan, such acts only occur out of desperation;not desirability as it would be in America..

you said that the women were forced into prostitution by the taliban policies. I said that it existed prior and after the taliban. the soviet aid kept the afghan government on its feet. they didnt cutail aid unitl its collapse.

[Karpo]

Hello Revolution,

I have read most of the exchange between you and Khushal, and it looks as if you are putting forward some notions which are weak to say the least.

Female education was not banned or prohibited in the manner that you are claiming, but it was prohibited due to the safety and security of females which was not complete.

I dont know if they had the Public Relations capacity to make a world wide proclamation as to the reasons they had to initially ban female education in some areas. This may have been a chain reaction due to 1) 'Afghan' communists who killed and murdered Daud Khan and the rest of his family 2) had their Communist government, and then 3) proceeded to support war of aggression upon the whole nation by the Soviets. The Soviets obviously were defeated, and then there was a civil war which was nearly brought to an end by the Taliban. If you want to blame someone, then the culprits are the 'Afghan' communists who started all this in the first place. Hence, they would be responsible for some of the extreme draconian laws that the Taliban brought to Kabul and other parts. There was radicalization, but what was it in response to? Foreign intervention and foreign ideologies such as communism.

Remember the reason that the Taliban emerged from the aftermath of the Soviet defeat was due to the fighting that went on between supposed Mujahideen groups. In this fighting, criminal elements created an atmosphere of disorder and crime where girls/women were raped and others were murdered.


It is due to the rape of two young girls by one of the supposed Mujahideen commanders, that the Taliban first arose to power, and swept Afghanistan within a manner of weeks, not months. With their rule, came order and security, but with this came their strict interpretation of Islamic law. Yes, it was extreme at first, but the reasons behind it are evident if you have been paying attention so far.

Due to the fact that there was still ongoing fighting due to Masood and Rabbani, stabilization did not come into full effect.

For you information, females were allowed to go to schools which were deemed safe for them. These schools from afar were usually guarded by security and religious police. There are a few sources which have been cited here in many other discussions.

Khushal is right in saying that the rural areas were left alone since much of the rules the Taliban brought to Kabul were already naturally implemented there due to tribal custom and tradition. The reason they probably left the rural areas alone may have been due to foresight, knowing that they could implement rule through tribal linkages and through the local village mullahs.

The Taliban essentially sought to implement the rules upon Kabul and other areas mostly in the North which were considered bastions of immorality where murder, drug taking, prostitution were the norm. Southern and Eastern Afghanistan already adhered to the social principles which most of the initial people who were part of the Taliban had adhered to as they grew up. To this day, Southern and Eastern Afghanistan operate on mostly the same social rules which adhere to Pashtunwali.

Northern Areas and the capital Kabul did not adhere to Islamic Sharia or Pashtunwali as vice was rampant in those areas. Being raised in the conservative Pashtun areas, this was something alarming for emerging Taliban. Their radicalization was then only seen in Kabul and other Northern Areas where they crushed alcohol bottles, executed pimps and prostitutes, and banned other things such as dog fighting. It may have been considered draconian by the outside, and that is understandable.


There was separation of male and female education. This still happens in the rural Pashtun South and East, as well as the conservative enclaves in and around Kabul (there are a few). This is also evident in many parts of FATA and KP.

[Karpo]

Essentially, it goes like this in numbered order

1) 'Afghan' Communists/ fake Pashtun 'nationalists' murdered and massacred Daud Khan and his entire family, (bringing to end a government that was slowly emerging as a decentralized one)

2) these Afghan Communists support a Soviet war of aggression on the whole of Afghanistan

3) Afghans fight and defeat the Soviet Union, bringing forward its collapse. The US through the Pakistan were supporting the Afghans with arms and weapons. Once the war was over, they both lost interest, and did not offer any type of help in bringing stability to the nation

4) After the Afghans defeat the Soviets, there is infighting between the different anti-Soviet factions. Warlords vie for power, and wish to bring the country under their rule

5) In this chaos and disorder, crime and murder is rampant. People are murdered with impunity, theft is widespread, and girls/women are raped.

This chaos and disorder brings the emergence of the Taliban when two young girls are raped by one of the supposed Mujahideen commanders. The students free the girls and then hang the commander from a tank. This story spreads around Afghanistan. Eventually within weeks, most of Afghanistan is swept by this new order.

6) Taliban implement a very strict interpretation of Sharia in Kabul, mostly due the problems which plague that part. Safety and security appear to have been the first priority.