Why and Who killed Ahmad Shah Massoud?

[JattApache]

All the warlords are killers

[Ghundal]

Hekmatyar, Masood, Rabbani they were all reactions to the Conmunists and the Soviet war they supported.

You know what a immune response is. Blame their extremism and criminality on the terrorist Commies that started drawing up ethnic lines

It's funny seeing a bunch of PRO WAR losers revel in ethnocentric talk

Simply put, had it not been for your filthy Communist heroes "inviting" the Soviets to war on Afghanistan, you would not have the Masoods, Hekmatyars, Sayafs, Rabbabis, and so forth

[roadrunner]

why would the commies draw any ethnic lines? thats not what communism is about.

the invite was something some afghans did. which did mean the government was highly unpopular. does it mean the treaty was legal?

[khushal]

From what I know, his "withdrawl" from Kabul was a tactical manoeuvre to spare kabul from becoming the battleground and its citizens being killed.He couldn't defend Kabul alone so he did what he thought was best for the citizens of Kabul. Throughout history many commanders have withdrawn from cities. its not a big issue.

He did what was best for the citizens of Kabul? under his leadership the city was destroyed and thousands of people in the city died. It was the Taliban that ended the misery that the Kabulis had faced for 4 years because of him and Hekmatyar. They were both so stubborn that they rather destroy the city than let the other have it.
Tactical withdrawal? Dude the man was outgunned when the taliban arrived.

I am sure he was a better person than many of us.

Abdullah Azzam is respected within radical circles who are some of Massoud's harshest critics. Thats why I mentioned. If you want I can mention the opinion of some of his french supporters as well

I have no idea why azzam thought he was the man for afghansitan, but clearly he was wrong because under his administration, Kabul was destoyed, ethnic hatred balooned in the country. He made alliances with the russians so pashtun areas were easily attacked, he made alliances with the ISI so Afghanistan could be weakened, he made alliances with the Communists so he could take Kabul before Hekmatyar could take it. He made alliances with India who was allied with the Soviets during the Soviet/Afghan war and was allied with the Daud regime who he tried a coup against in the 70's. He made alliances with Iran who threatened and made preparations to invade Afghanistan. If that is not a sellout who sold himself to every buyeer on the market, than you tell me what is.

Azzam have obviously made a mistake, what people consider is what did he do for Afghanistan and the answer is nothing but bring misery. Azzam had his own interests at hand which was to secure a sanctuary for the Arabs losing struggle against Israel. The Arab world wanted nothing to do with people like Azzam and the Arab governmnets were kicking people like him out from wherever they could.

[khushal]

Replying to Roadrunner's cynical comment about Afghan Arabs -
of course there is some truth in that.
But too, one must remember that these people GOT THERE,
and TRIED to do something, maybe not military as much as provide
moral support by showing brotherhood with fellow Muslims struggling
in the first REAL Jihad in probably centuries.


I didn't interview any, so I don't claim to know the general motives

The only time I really heard of them was ironically when writing a travel article
on Chitral. There was a new regulation that foreigners must register, so when I
went in for that, the official mentioned how many Arabs were up in Chitral.
It was a surprise to me.

They apparently kept to themselves and did not mingle well with afghans
in Peshawar, even, let alone in Afghanistan.

My attitude is : at least they did a little !

Compare this with the rest of the planet which largely sat back and watched
the bloody war of occupation by the Soviet Union. There was a lot talk
from European intellectuals - even leftist ones - against that war.
But few took concrete action, outside of MSF, Medecins du Monde, etc.

Where was this prominent Jewish French writer and "philosopher"
Bernard-Henri Levy, for example, in those days? He was vocal enough
when Daniel Pearl, fellow Jew, was executed. THEN, he went to Pakistan,
made extensive interviews, wrote an entire book detailing the investigation
of the death of one Wall Street Journal writer.

I doubt such types were bothered to publicize even this PRIME
anti-Communist cause of the Afghan jihad of the 80s.

By contrast, at least Arabs all over the world roused themselves and
traipsed to Peshawar. One can complain this and that, but
at least they WENT ! At least they had that much sincerity.
Surely the Afghan Arabs did not go to make MONEY !

Listen Weirdo,
The ARabs did not do anything during the Soviet occupation. Most of them came to do laundry for the rich arabs who wanted to falsely show thier own people how brave they were while because they had already been embarrased by a few million Israelis who have the whole Arab world of 400 million under them. Most showed up after the Soviets had withdrawn and their aim was to organize, train and to go back and start revolutions in theor home countries. Their interests were about fighting their own dictatorships which had improsoned them.

[khushal]

^
Massoud was ikhwanite style islamist so ofcourse republicanism, democracy and communism are against his belief system. His revolt is natural since he is an ikhwani.

Like Taliban these islamists don't recognize international borders, no borders between muslims. Well Massoud can use the old excuse that the Daud regime wasn't islamic so his revolt and opposition was islamic just like Taliban fought the Rabbani-Hekmatyar regime with the help of Pakistan. Isn't it the same thing?

What your saying does not make sense. First you said that Masood never left Afghanistan, then your back peddling and trying to justify that him leaving is OK. Just admit that you were wrong.

[Alchemist]

moral of the thread- pashtuns hate masood.
Pashtuns will fabricate lies about farsiwan leaders and fabricate greater lies to cover their own pashtun leader's atrocities.

Either that or you just ignorant because if you read any history book in regards to the war in Afghanistan in the past 40 years then you wouldn't say that "Masood was a sell out". Everyone knows that masood dealt the heavies blows to the Russians. Destroyed more of their helicopters, tanks and planes and won more battles against them. The ISI hated his guts and it is even known to the CIA that 90% of the resources was syphoned to Gulbuddin. The CIA agents had to secretly find ways to contact masood so as to not upset the ISI ...and in the end all masood got was $500,000 in total from the $ 8 billion.

While it is a well known fact that after the soviet withdrawal the main reason the interm government failed was because of hekmatyar's refusal to join because of his pakistani backing, the wahdat party backed by iran and the saudi backed sayaf...you would all blame it on masood for trying to mediate between all of them.

It's pretty obvious that masood was killed by his own subordinates...this always happens to great leaders. I am pretty sure the likes of fahim and abdullah x 2, and even his own brothers were sick of eating bread soaked in water in dingy nasty caves for years and years...so when the US came to them with the offer of cash and support...they knew masood would not sell out...as usual...so they plotted to have him killed with the CIA. Masood didn't even entrust his own brothers with the welfare of his son and wife...so he knew he was going to be assassinated by his own kin. It happens to the best of the best commanders... Alexander, Julius Caesar and maybe gengis khan too...

[Catya Sher]

No, Alexander was not killed ; he died of FEVER,
in Babylon in modern Iraq [I visited the marvelous ancient city and remembered
this historical fact when wandering the ruins ].

But it's interesting to read your theory that his brothers were involved.

First time I have heard that suggested. So, you mean that Ahmad Zia ?
I interviewed him earlier and he was so humble seeming. Then next thing
he's stashed some huge number of millions in his suitcase and is found in Dubai
with all that suspicious money.

So what IS the story? Which one of the brothers would have been the ringleader, if your theory is right, Alchemist, and if you have watched his family carefully. Which other brothers or relatives COULD HAVE BEEN involved?

My overall impression is that Massoud started out better, but got corrupt himself.

At the time of his notorious truce with the Soviets during the war, many people were bitterly complaining. Then to side with the Russians against fellow Afghans? None of that behavior really adds up. There is too much
murkiness to Massoud to allow him to be eulogized the way he has been
by so many individuals over the years.

What you say about his brothers, though, strikes a chord of truth !

[Ghundal]

moral of the thread- pashtuns hate masood.
Pashtuns will fabricate lies about farsiwan leaders and fabricate greater lies to cover their own pashtun leader's atrocities.

Either that or you just ignorant because if you read any history book in regards to the war in Afghanistan in the past 40 years then you wouldn't say that "Masood was a sell out". Everyone knows that masood dealt the heavies blows to the Russians. Destroyed more of their helicopters, tanks and planes and won more battles against them. The ISI hated his guts and it is even known to the CIA that 90% of the resources was syphoned to Gulbuddin. The CIA agents had to secretly find ways to contact masood so as to not upset the ISI ...and in the end all masood got was $500,000 in total from the $ 8 billion.

While it is a well known fact that after the soviet withdrawal the main reason the interm government failed was because of hekmatyar's refusal to join because of his pakistani backing, the wahdat party backed by iran and the saudi backed sayaf...you would all blame it on masood for trying to mediate between all of them.

It's pretty obvious that masood was killed by his own subordinates...this always happens to great leaders. I am pretty sure the likes of fahim and abdullah x 2, and even his own brothers were sick of eating bread soaked in water in dingy nasty caves for years and years...so when the US came to them with the offer of cash and support...they knew masood would not sell out...as usual...so they plotted to have him killed with the CIA. Masood didn't even entrust his own brothers with the welfare of his son and wife...so he knew he was going to be assassinated by his own kin. It happens to the best of the best commanders... Alexander, Julius Caesar and maybe gengis khan too...

Your history appears to be hazy, but all the warlords (Masood, Rabbani, Hekmatyar, Sayaf. etc) were backed by the ISI/US. This is well known in regards to the Anti- Soviet war. They along with the Saudis obviously had their own interests , but that is irrelevant to the wider Afghan resentment to occupation/war.

Hamid Gul and Brezinksi had nothing to do with Afghan defeat of the Soviets. No one in the world can make anyone fight

Maybe you had Haji Latif of Kandahar who was kind of his own man as well as Amin Wardak, and several others who had their own support

Afghan opposition to foreign occupation was a fact irrespective of whose interests it may have served at the time.

To deny the interests of Afghans in wanting independence is absurd and is a narrative that belongs to only failure expats (who know they are lying themselves).

Afghans did not tolerate Soviet occupation, nor do Afghans tolerate any occupation.




In regards to Masood, he started thinking along ethnocentric lines, and that is undeniable. Even during the war against the Soviets, he still kept communication open with the Soviets

[khushal]

moral of the thread- pashtuns hate masood.
Pashtuns will fabricate lies about farsiwan leaders and fabricate greater lies to cover their own pashtun leader's atrocities.

Either that or you just ignorant because if you read any history book in regards to the war in Afghanistan in the past 40 years then you wouldn't say that "Masood was a sell out". Everyone knows that masood dealt the heavies blows to the Russians. Destroyed more of their helicopters, tanks and planes and won more battles against them. The ISI hated his guts and it is even known to the CIA that 90% of the resources was syphoned to Gulbuddin. The CIA agents had to secretly find ways to contact masood so as to not upset the ISI ...and in the end all masood got was $500,000 in total from the $ 8 billion.

While it is a well known fact that after the soviet withdrawal the main reason the interm government failed was because of hekmatyar's refusal to join because of his pakistani backing, the wahdat party backed by iran and the saudi backed sayaf...you would all blame it on masood for trying to mediate between all of them.

It's pretty obvious that masood was killed by his own subordinates...this always happens to great leaders. I am pretty sure the likes of fahim and abdullah x 2, and even his own brothers were sick of eating bread soaked in water in dingy nasty caves for years and years...so when the US came to them with the offer of cash and support...they knew masood would not sell out...as usual...so they plotted to have him killed with the CIA. Masood didn't even entrust his own brothers with the welfare of his son and wife...so he knew he was going to be assassinated by his own kin. It happens to the best of the best commanders... Alexander, Julius Caesar and maybe gengis khan too...

great leaders unite people not divide people, his only dream was to have farsiwan rule Afghanistan for the first time and it is possible that his own men had a hand in killing him but it had more to do with them realizing his flawed and failed vission for Afghanistan. He never fought the Soviets, he made agreements so the soviets could concentrate on the real warriors and defenders of Afgahnistan. Your saying that the CIA has suicide bomber hit squads and your comparing this idiot to Alexander, what color is the sky in your fantasy world. The CIA could have dropped a bomb on his house anytime they wanted from 80,000 feet in the air and the pilot 3000 miles away sitting on a LazyBoy sipping on a cold Bud.

[randolph85]

moral of the thread- pashtuns hate masood.
Pashtuns will fabricate lies about farsiwan leaders and fabricate greater lies to cover their own pashtun leader's atrocities.

Either that or you just ignorant because if you read any history book in regards to the war in Afghanistan in the past 40 years then you wouldn't say that "Masood was a sell out". Everyone knows that masood dealt the heavies blows to the Russians. Destroyed more of their helicopters, tanks and planes and won more battles against them. The ISI hated his guts and it is even known to the CIA that 90% of the resources was syphoned to Gulbuddin. The CIA agents had to secretly find ways to contact masood so as to not upset the ISI ...and in the end all masood got was $500,000 in total from the $ 8 billion.

While it is a well known fact that after the soviet withdrawal the main reason the interm government failed was because of hekmatyar's refusal to join because of his pakistani backing, the wahdat party backed by iran and the saudi backed sayaf...you would all blame it on masood for trying to mediate between all of them.

It's pretty obvious that masood was killed by his own subordinates...this always happens to great leaders. I am pretty sure the likes of fahim and abdullah x 2, and even his own brothers were sick of eating bread soaked in water in dingy nasty caves for years and years...so when the US came to them with the offer of cash and support...they knew masood would not sell out...as usual...so they plotted to have him killed with the CIA. Masood didn't even entrust his own brothers with the welfare of his son and wife...so he knew he was going to be assassinated by his own kin. It happens to the best of the best commanders... Alexander, Julius Caesar and maybe gengis khan too...

in all fairness, many pashtuns hate their own leaders as well, including hekmatyar.

you can blame the calamity of the civil war on hekmatyar, but rabbani extending his term in violation of agreements certainly didn't help.

as for massoud not willing to sell out to the west, that is a stretch. this is the same guy who was in in europe before his death lobbying for western intervention against the taliban. so what was going to happen then? the west intervenes in afghanistan and suddenly massoud wouldn't want to play ball?