Amirul Mumineen Mullah Omar Mujahid (hafidhahullah) tells his lifestory in his own vo

[Ghundal]

Scimitar ,

Quit resorting to ad hominem attacks
Just because I exposed your contradiction in regards to the Syrian insurgency and the Afghan insurgency, it does not mean I support the Afghan insurgency or the Syrian insurgency or the US war.

Making an objective analysis is just that

Don't think that just because you continue to lose in debates like others, you can resort to ad hominem attacks
As I have said before, this is what a pathetic defeated person does

Most of us here are Anti-War

[ScimitarXEdge]

You keep tellling yourself that; Master of the Straw Man argument.


as far as I'm concerned Jamaluddin with deny anything if it doesnt cater to Pashtun pride.

Kais iis against western sources but uses western servants as sources? talk about confused.

you're a straw man argumenter ...

all to defend some idiotic notion that Taliban dont do heinous acts because they're "Pashtun". Maybe if you guys admitted that evil things happen by Pashtuns, there would be LESS evil done by pashtuns; it's that mentality that keeps the cycle going

[Afghanistan2010]

Scimitar,

your brain is just waste of flesh,
you talk so much bs
instead using it gently as others (some ) do,you have failed to do so.

sorry, i would pay for a medical check.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Smitar bro.. when did i say that pashtuns are flawless and perfect... and that i would reject anything that goes against my pashtun pride? lol now thats just a cheap shot...

But i forgive you..

also

you said that the taleban committed rapes, etc., so i asked you to back it up with an authentic source.. so you asked me what i mean by authentic and i gave you a dictionary definition.. you were not satisfied with that so you asked for more clarification..and i gave you the checklist which you could use to authentic your sources..etc..etc...

now come on.. just show us this golden evidence you got...

the suspense is killing me...

lol

[JAMALUDEEN]

Not at all, I just know my environment; I know how stupidly obsessed with protecting Pashtun pride people like Jamaluddin are that he thinks it's impossible for a Pashtun male to rape women, it makes people like you and Jamaluddin feel uncomfortable so to ease your own conscience you invent some excuse to evade the moral repercussions of such information

Pashtun Pride ? What are you on about dude?

You are speaking of morality? How is lying moral to win a debate? So the end justifies the means.. huh

come on brother.. wake up...

:P

[khushal]

aaah this is duplicitous reasning, so a Pashtun can murder civilians because he's lost his mind, but his mind is somehow clear enough not to rape?

That's absurd


you're being intellectually dishonest.

You lack understanding of the pashtun culture and pashtunwali. It is improbable for a group of pashtuns to go plan rape in revenge like your source claims. The Author lacks understanding like you. A group of pashtuns can not plan to take women and rape them, it would be beghyrat for the man for that woman to have a child and not know who the father is, the child would be considered a b*stard. This is not done in pashtun culture. What pashtun have done is take the women and force them to become their brides, that way any child conceived knows his/her father. Pashtuns take pride in knowing their kin and which clan they belong to. Im not saying it is imossible, but it is improbable. Would a pashtun go and rape a woman, it could and has happened if noone knows about it, but he would never brag about it, because he would be staring at the end of a barrel of gun if he does. Other pashuns would kill him becasue he would be considered a danger to their own women.

As far as killing for revenge is considered, that is actually encouraged in pashtunwali.

Jamaldeen and Ghundal are correct in this matter. You have never been to Afghanistan, you dont know the reality there. You are more of a book worm and can argue well as a book worm but when it comes to practicality, you would fail miserably.

[NokiaWnW]

You lack understanding of the pashtun culture and pashtunwali. It is improbable for a group of pashtuns to go plan rape in revenge like your source claims. The Author lacks understanding like you. A group of pashtuns can not plan to take women and rape them, it would be beghyrat for the man for that woman to have a child and not know who the father is, the child would be considered a b*stard. This is not done in pashtun culture. What pashtun have done is take the women and force them to become their brides, that way any child conceived knows his/her father. Pashtuns take pride in knowing their kin and which clan they belong to. Im not saying it is imossible, but it is improbable. Would a pashtun go and rape a woman, it could and has happened if noone knows about it, but he would never brag about it, because he would be staring at the end of a barrel of gun if he does. Other pashuns would kill him becasue he would be considered a danger to their own women.

As far as killing for revenge is considered, that is actually encouraged in pashtunwali.

Jamaldeen and Ghundal are correct in this matter. You have never been to Afghanistan, you dont know the reality there. You are more of a book worm and can argue well as a book worm but when it comes to practicality, you would fail miserably.

You must be joking. What kind of pride? what kind of honour? You have forgotten the attacks on India and how savage tribesmen raped Indian women or Hazara women in Afghanistan. Stop BSing here. Raping were mostly a good tool for savage monkies to impose something.

Second uprising

The second uprising occurred in 1890–93. The cause of the uprising was the rape of the wife of a Hazara chief by 33 Afghan soldiers. The soldiers had entered their house under the pretext of searching for weapons and raped the chief's wife in front of him. The families of the Hazara chief and his wife retaliated against the humiliation, killed the soldiers and attacked the local garrison, where they took back their weapons. Several other tribal chiefs who supported Abdur Rahman now turned against him and joined the rebellion which rapidly spread through the entire Hazarajat. In response to the rebellion, the Emir declared a "jihad" against the Shiites and raised an army of 40, 000 soldiers, 10, 000 mounted troops, and 100,000 armed civilians (most of which were Pashtun nomads). He also brought in British military advisers to assist his army.[22] The large army defeated the rebellion at its center, in Oruzgan, by 1892 and the local population was severely massacred. According to S. A. Mousavi:

thousands of Hazara men, women, and children were moved to Mountain area from their land and Kabul and Qandahar, while numerous towers of human heads were made from the defeated rebels as a warning to others who might challenge the rule of the Amir.[22]

[NokiaWnW]

You people condemn self-defense as a kind of traitment while you do it always. God thanks the pumpkin head was send to hell and people took their weapons back to f*** savage tribesmen from Pakilands what they deserves. People do not rape anyone reasonless. Taliban raped Hazara women in Hazarajat. After 09/11 things changed and Hazara stood in the position of Pashtuns, as well Uzbeks, Pashais of Nijran and other people. You do anything to anyone, they will do to you the same way and most of the time even worser. Learn to become humen-beeings with two legs and respect other nations, beliefs and cultures and noone will ride your women. I´m sure once all real Pashtuns are united with other ethnicities of Afghanistan they will ride you 24h till your last days. You live in a fantasy world that does not exist. You not even rape women but also your own boys. Come back to reality. Nothing about pride and honour. Pashtunwali has no existence in the real world. It died out among all nomadic world people and thus also among Pashtuns. It just exists as a term.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You lack understanding of the pashtun culture and pashtunwali. It is improbable for a group of pashtuns to go plan rape in revenge like your source claims. The Author lacks understanding like you. A group of pashtuns can not plan to take women and rape them, it would be beghyrat for the man for that woman to have a child and not know who the father is, the child would be considered a b*stard. This is not done in pashtun culture. What pashtun have done is take the women and force them to become their brides, that way any child conceived knows his/her father. Pashtuns take pride in knowing their kin and which clan they belong to. Im not saying it is imossible, but it is improbable. Would a pashtun go and rape a woman, it could and has happened if noone knows about it, but he would never brag about it, because he would be staring at the end of a barrel of gun if he does. Other pashuns would kill him becasue he would be considered a danger to their own women.

As far as killing for revenge is considered, that is actually encouraged in pashtunwali.

Jamaldeen and Ghundal are correct in this matter. You have never been to Afghanistan, you dont know the reality there. You are more of a book worm and can argue well as a book worm but when it comes to practicality, you would fail miserably.

But then you said "war makes Pashtuns suicide bomb their own people in revenge" and war made unarmed Hazara citizens get massacred in response to Hizbe Wahdat.

seriously; you should hear yourself. you're cherry picking. Before you were blaming the harshness of war.

If the Harshness of war can make a Pashtun man go haywire, then why is it improbable they would say "**** Pashtunwali ...I want to show them who's in charge" and then go on a raping rampage? Why is that somehow improbable?

Your conclusion is based on a nonsequittur; people do things against their cultural or social teachings all the time ; didn't the Taliban often trespass Pashtun tribal laws especially regarding swara? And this was when they were not "shell shocked" and if you say they were shell shocked, then they should never have any stake in having any influence on Afghanistan as it demonstrates they're incapable of doing so

I don't know who this Nokia guy is but Pashtunwali is not as "binding" as you think it is; it is only employed when it works for peoples personal agendas.

There's nothing can be drawn here than an attempt at creating a nebulous apologetic. the claim of Pashtunwali ....does not preclude Taliban from raping hazara women,, If you think crazy people scarred by war have no discernment when it comes to killing then it's very implausible they will do so for rape either. Your contention is not credible

[ScimitarXEdge]

Pashtun Pride ? What are you on about dude?

You are speaking of morality? How is lying moral to win a debate? So the end justifies the means.. huh

come on brother.. wake up...

:P

It i clear from your constant attempt at avoiding explaining what you deem as valid evidence that your intention is not to accept evidence but to disregard any evidence presented.


If any one of us is lying ....it's you.

If you were sincere about wanting evidence give a detailed list of what you accept as valid sources ......

Here's an example .....are western sources acceptable ....are eastern sources acceptable , would something from India be acceptable , something from Pakistan, something from Hazaras?


Your attempt to hide behind pendantics shows you're looking for a justification to deny not ..face reality ...and this sir makes you a liar.

[khushal]

But then you said "war makes Pashtuns suicide bomb their own people in revenge" and war made unarmed Hazara citizens get massacred in response to Hizbe Wahdat.

seriously; you should hear yourself. you're cherry picking. Before you were blaming the harshness of war.

Stop putting quotation marks between things I never said. Find me the post where I said that. I said Suicide bombing is a tactic of desperation.

If the Harshness of war can make a Pashtun man go haywire, then why is it improbable they would say "**** Pashtunwali ...I want to show them who's in charge" and then go on a raping rampage? Why is that somehow improbable?

They wouldnt go on a raping rampage, they would kill and take the women as brides if anything. Its not about pashtuns caring about pashtunwali, its about pashtuns thinking about what other pashtuns think about them, if they act like you say they do then they would lose respect among each other and survival within pashtuns would be in jeopaRDY. Saving your family honor is very important for the survival for the pashtun within pashtuns. A Pashtun can easily survive in a farswan society or an American society with dishonor with no problem, in a pashtun society it is very difficult.

Your conclusion is based on a nonsequittur; people do things against their cultural or social teachings all the time ; didn't the Taliban often trespass Pashtun tribal laws especially regarding swara? And this was when they were not "shell shocked" and if you say they were shell shocked, then they should never have any stake in having any influence on Afghanistan as it demonstrates they're incapable of doing so

Tribal laws are trampled on all the time, but when it comes to not knowing who your father is, that is not a tribal law, that is the essence of being pashtun. If you dont know who your father is then you are not considered pashtun. Its not about caring about pashtunwali, many pashtun hate it because it is harsh, but its about survival in a pashtun society.

I don't know who this Nokia guy is but Pashtunwali is not as "binding" as you think it is; it is only employed when it works for peoples personal agendas.

There's nothing can be drawn here than an attempt at creating a nebulous apologetic. the claim of Pashtunwali ....does not preclude Taliban from raping hazara women,, If you think crazy people scarred by war have no discernment when it comes to killing then it's very implausible they will do so for rape either. Your contention is not credible

Nokia is a farsiwan who is a pashtun wannabe with an inferiority complex. Pashtuns take the women as brides, this has been documented in history, read abou the raids in panjab and the raids on the shamili in the 1930's. Some people would consider forcing a woman to marry you as rape, but if a pashtun rapes, that is the way they will go about it. My emphasis is that it is improbable for pashtuns do this as a group. They will not respect each other afterwards, they mind as well kill each other right there becasue that is whats going to happen anyways by giving peghor to each other.

Those hazara women that your author claims were raped, the most likely thing that happened was that those women were taken as brides and were forced to marry the men that took them. Some people might consider that as rape but in the pashtuns mind it is his wife.

[NokiaWnW]

Khushal, I told you several time I am a Pashayeewar Safi. Not a Farsiwan. but it seems Farsiwans did something great to you lol You SoB exchange here potatoes with apples and deny your filthy nature. Alone your heroes, the Taliban, raped more than 15 000 Hazara and Uzbek women. Uzbek and Hazara people are noble people like most of Afghans. They will never rape anyone reasonless. Also taking girls or women from others by force and sell them is somehow like raping but I know your nut big brain will not understand that. Live with the consequences. However, keep hiding in the west and don´t get catched by any Hazara or Uzbek or Farsiwan or whatever.

I just can repeat myself. People do not rape because they like it. They rape because of revange or because they want the same price payed to them.

[khushal]

Khushal, I told you several time I am a Pashayeewar Safi. Not a Farsiwan. but it seems Farsiwans did something great to you lol You SoB exchange here potatoes with apples and deny your filthy nature. Alone your heroes, the Taliban, raped more than 15 000 Hazara and Uzbek women. Uzbek and Hazara people are noble people like most of Afghans. They will never rape anyone reasonless. Also taking girls or women from others by force and sell them is somehow like raping but I know your nut big brain will not understand that. Live with the consequences. However, keep hiding in the west and don´t get catched by any Hazara or Uzbek or Farsiwan or whatever.

Im not going to go on an insulting match with you, so if your going to debate rationally you are welcome, other wise shut the hell up.

[کیش]

Served with the U.S. Army, doesnt that by default make him western too? Look at how you contradict yourself

You're just biased and making stuff up to defend the Taliban. run along kid. You've been debunked

Ok buddy, I have better things to do to make up stuff all day. Like I said travel to eastern Afghanistan if you don't belief me. All my accounts are eyewitness events. Your bs is some 3rd source media outlet owned by a mega conglomerate.


"you've been debunked"

I don't know how it is in LaLa land, but closing your ears and yelling "blah" doesn't count as being debunked.

[ScimitarXEdge]

They wouldnt go on a raping rampage, they would kill and take the women as brides if anything

So a Pashtun Taliban can go mad enough to go on a suicide bombing campaign, which in effect ends up killing more Pashtuns than NATO because the "horrors of war" made him do it, but killing and betraying his own people in such a way that won't change what other Pashtuns think of him; but he'll have his sanity regained enough to take brides and think of marriage, to protect his "honor" in regards to women his people see less than them . Which by the way in such an instance is essentially rape anyways, so even if you argue that angle the rape claim woul still apply.

And using the reasoning you apply of the "Pashtun cares what others think of him ...Pashtun culture says this etc etc." Historically Pashtuns viewed Hazaras as subhumans, the Taliban were no different, so what shame and dishonor would a Pashtun have with another Pashtun for raping a Non-Pashtun who they see with contempt? More unlikely than your claim that a Pashtun wouldn't rape; because plenty of Pashtuns have raped , are raping and probably will rape. We need to start admitting there are Pashtuns, most often the ones who front religion who are raping.