No to Pakistan or Afghanistan we need our own country Pakhtonistan

[Toramana]

The earlier Pashtuns realise that the past is over and living in the past will not be just slight foolishness but colossal stupidity on the part of Pashtun that would push them into another quagmire of confusion and instablity for at least two decade more, the better. The consequent loss can be well-gauged.

We should remember that no empire in recent history after it has disingtegrated has been restored. Once people gain autonomy, freedom they tend to retain it. Whether Pashtuns accept or not or agree to it or not or fight or not, north is going to gain more power and autonomy vis-a-vis Pashtuns. The sad part of all this is, Pashtuns will exhaust their own energy in the process without gaining anything. And they will lost a lot in the process.

Above all, self-rule is a right of all people.

[Toramana]

Toramana do you want us to leave the north for northerners?

nazia, my point is, we have reached a point of history whether Pashtuns like it or not, the north is going to be more and more empowered and autonomous ---I rather say more empowered than Pashuns.

[Toramana]

So what do you want us to do? exclude them for our conversations or ignore them?

Engage them, reach a political compromise with them, ...I hope a kind of political arrangement where all communities co-exist with autonomy and freedom yet interact with each other through trade etc. will benefit all.

[Toramana]

With Pakistan always in our affairs how can that happen? The biggest problem we have comes from Pakistan since it supports terrorism in Afghanistan when things aren't done its ways.

nazia you are right but what Pakistan is doing is not sustainable...in a few year the regional situation will become clear.

[parsiwaan]

Baygham what have you been aware of to that post to MI6?

You do know that Arabs are a minority in Islam right Parsiwaan and Baygham?

It doesn't matter...Islam is Arab culture... Allah was the name of biggest Idol in Kahbah....whenever Islam conquers a country it destroys the culture and language of others...example Syria, Lebanon, Palestine. This is why all mullahs will hold a knife in your neck if your name is not Arabic--"Islamic"—ex Mohammad, Fatimah, Zahra.
Ordinarily one nation has to subdue another nation with the force of arms; the vanquished dislike the victor and want to be free, but in this case, all non-Arab Muslims shed tears of devotion to be accepted as the Arabian cultural slaves! Is it not a classical example of a lamb, begging the butcher to lead him to the slaughterhouse? This is the wisdom of Muhammad - may peace be upon him.

Being aware of human frailties, the Prophet exerted further psychological pressure on his non-Arab followers so that they must subordinate their own culture to that of Arabia. He achieved this goal by raising the spiritual prestige of the Arab institutions. Here is a brief account:

1. Kaaba is the House of God because the Almighty had commanded Adam to build it for Him, and it was also rebuilt by Abraham.

2. A Muslim's grave must be dug in a way that when his body is buried, it must face towards Mecca.

3. So sacred is Mecca that nobody must defecate himself facing this City. He who does so is a Kafir (infidel).

4. Allah speaks Arabic, and the Koran is also in Arabic, which is a very difficult language; all Muslims must learn it to be blessed. Fancy how biased Allah is in favor of Arabia.


The hadith no. 5751 (Mishkat, Vol. 3) reports the Prophet saying:
"Love the Arabs for three reasons because (1) I am
an Arab (2) the Holy Koran is in Arabic and (3) the
tongue of the dwellers of paradise shall also be
Arabic."

6. Kaaba is the centre of Allah's blessings because it is here that 120 Divine Benedictions descend every day, and are then distributed to the rest of the world!

7. Ibne Majah reports in hadith no. 1463, that a Namaz i.e. prayer in the Mosque-in-Medina brings 100 times more blessings than a similar prayer in other mosques, and a prayer in the Kaaba invokes 100,000 benedictions compared to a similar worship in other mosques!

8. Even the Arabian graveyards known as Jannat-ul-Mualla and Jannat-ul-Baquee are the most sacred. According to a hadith, they look shining to the dwellers of the skies the same way as sun and moon appear to the people of the earth. Those who are buried there, shall enter paradise without any accountability and each of them shall be privileged to intercede for seventy thousand people!

9. Read the following verse:
"(O Prophet) tell people if you really love
Allah, follow me, and if you act like this, then
Allah will love you, too, and He will forgive your
sins ..." (The House of Imran, III: 30)

When read with the hadith ( 5 ) quoted above, one comes to the conclusion that to be a Muslim, a non- Arab believer has to live as an Arab to qualify for Allah's love and pardon!

10. It is a part of the Islamic faith that every Muslim, no matter where he lives, must come to Mecca for pilgrimage, at least once in a life-time. Over three million Muslims from all over the world come to Mecca every year to perform the Hajj ceremony. Probably, the same numbers gather there to observe the Umra rites during the year. These ceremonies generate so much wealth for the Arabs that, considering their population, they can maintain standards of living compatible with those of the Western Europeans.

The Hajj ceremony has been a part of the Arab culture from time immemorial; it has developed from the Indian principles of idolatry such as Trimurti, Sabeanism, local superstitions and Greek influences. There is no historical proof that the temple of Kaaba was ever rebuilt by Abraham. Even during the early times of Muhammad, it was the centre of idol-worship along with the age-old custom of kissing the Hajr-E-Aswad, which the Prophet encouraged because of its deep association with the Arab national culture. This pagan practice which appealed to the Arabs, certainly helped the Prophet to gain converts for his faith.

The Hajj ceremony belongs to the pre-Islamic times. It is as much representative of idolatry today as it ever was. People perform the rites of kissing the Black Stone including the seven circuits of the Kaaba, which are considered emblematical relic of the stars' revolutions associated with the traditions of the heathen Yemen.

What is true of Hajj, equally applies to Allah Himself. It was the name of the Chief idol of Kaaba associated with Quresh, the tribe of Muhammad. The Prophet's father's name was Abd Allah i.e. the servant of Allah for this reason. He retained this name for his God because of its appeal to the Quresh. Again, Allah was an Arabian God, and everybody swore by His name irrespective of religion.

By such schemes the Prophet bestowed a greater sanctity on Mecca than the Jews could ever associate with the Temple of Jerusalem. The divineness of Mecca imbued the Arabs with an aura of holiness, which was made distinct by such hadiths that all Muslims must love Arabia, and those who begrudge it, they shall be deprived of the Prophet's intercessory blessings, and thus rot in hell.

In this Master Plan of Arabism, the Prophet kept himself right on the top: even though he calls himself a mortal and the servant of Allah, it is Allah, who along with His angels, prays peace to Muhammad i.e. worships him. Therefore, love and obedience to Muhammad is the true Islam and Allah becomes a mere euphemism for Muhammad, who has such a strong grip on Him that belief in Allah means nothing at all without acknowledging Muhammad!

The best way of practising Islam is to treat Muhammad as the Model of Behaviour:

"You (Muslims) have had a good example in God's
Messenger ( Muhammad ) for whosoever hopes for
God and the Last Day."
(The Confederates, XXXIII: 20)


It means, imitating the Prophet even in minor details i.e. one must think, feel and act as the Prophet did; one must develop the same tastes and habits as the Prophet had; one must even eat, drink, talk, walk, sleep and look like him in dress and general appearance.----Exact what the Taliban were doing!!!

When we further ponder over the issue under discussion, it transpires that this doctrine i.e. the Prophet as the Model of Behaviour, is the true force, which makes Islam, the Self-Perpetuating Arab Imperialism because such a confession inspires a Muslim with the duty to treat the Prophet's principles and practices as his true guide of action.
So it becomes the duty of all non-Arab converts to Islam that they must accept the Arab cultural hegemony, that is, subordinate all their national institutions to those of Arabia, adopt Islamic law, learn Arabic and Arab manners; love Mecca and Arabs to acknowledge Muhammad as the Model of Behavior because being an Arab he loved and enforced everything that was Arabian. Still worse, they must hate their own culture and motherland to such an extent that it becomes Dar-ul-Harb, i.e. a living battlefield. In practice it means that they must set up an opposite camp in their own motherland and fight their own countrymen until they all surrender to the Arab Cultural Imperialism by embracing Islam. It is then and only then that the country becomes Dar-ul-Islam i.e. the Land of Peace; otherwise it remains a battlefield (Dar-ul-Harb) where murder and rape of the non-Muslims ranks as good; lying, cheating and dishonesty are considered necessary evils and hence, form part of the indigenous Muslim morality. Motherland! What Motherland? The land of one's birth where one grows up, lives and finds the last refuge, is deemed as the biggest joke under the magic of Arabian influence. These non-Arab Muslims develop a special sense of contempt for their own cultures and motherlands under the pretence of believing in the Muslim nationhood, which is just a mirage, a misconception, a morbid condition of the mind.

[parsiwaan]

unfortunately not every one has these nobel ambitions. The reality is that pashtoon majority and power in kabul will exploit the minorities just like the punjabies exploit us in pakhtunkhwa. Unless as you stated this arabian virus is removed and it is under a federal secular system. That will still require a complete autonomous north at least for a while.

Eventually our people will realize...it will take time...sadly here in west due to cultural shock most of our people have turned into Arabian zombie...its a way to distinguish themselves and the fear they have of western culture...oh my daughter will bring a white or black or Mexican bf(almost always it starts and ends with female genitalia.) Religions were and are a response to human fear. They were created to give people a feeling of security in an insecure world, and a feeling of control over the environment where there was little control. In human history…religion has evolved as our understanding and knowledge of surrounding increased ..there was time when our ancestors were worshiping sun, moon, stars…anything unknown or mysterious. Fact is all religions are man made and the one that have survived its due to adoptability…. Ex…today Christianity very different then Christianity of 500 years ago.. it has evolved as its required by time….fortunately there is no change or divergence in islam…which means it will bring her own end.

I think John Shelby Spong, a retired bishop of the Episcopal Church, say its all:

"Religion is primarily a search for security and not a search for truth. Religion is what we so often use to bank the fires of our anxiety. That is why religion tends toward becoming excessive, neurotic, controlling and even evil. That is why a religious government is always a cruel government. People need to understand that questioning and doubting are healthy, human activities to be encouraged not to be feared. Certainty is a vice not a virtue. Insecurity is something to be grasped and treasured. A true and healthy religious system will encourage each of these activities. A sick and fearful religious system will seek to remove them."

[parsiwaan]

Parsiwaan you have taken many quotes out of context and that is all a copy and paste.

This is all we hear... like the saying.. Islam ba zaht e khod nadara Yahbe ++ Har Yahbe ke ast dar muslimani mahast. You can not detach Islam from Muslami...its the same thing...Muslim represent islam....which nothing but Arab Imperialism.

[Baygham]

Eventually our people will realize...it will take time...sadly here in west due to cultural shock most of our people have turned into Arabian zombie...its a way to distinguish themselves and the fear they have of western culture...oh my daughter will bring a white or black or Mexican bf(almost always it starts and ends with female genitalia.) Religions were and are a response to human fear. They were created to give people a feeling of security in an insecure world, and a feeling of control over the environment where there was little control. In human history…religion has evolved as our understanding and knowledge of surrounding increased ..there was time when our ancestors were worshiping sun, moon, stars…anything unknown or mysterious. Fact is all religions are man made and the one that have survived its due to adoptability…. Ex…today Christianity very different then Christianity of 500 years ago.. it has evolved as its required by time….fortunately there is no change or divergence in islam…which means it will bring her own end.

I think John Shelby Spong, a retired bishop of the Episcopal Church, say its all:

"Religion is primarily a search for security and not a search for truth. Religion is what we so often use to bank the fires of our anxiety. That is why religion tends toward becoming excessive, neurotic, controlling and even evil. That is why a religious government is always a cruel government. People need to understand that questioning and doubting are healthy, human activities to be encouraged not to be feared. Certainty is a vice not a virtue. Insecurity is something to be grasped and treasured. A true and healthy religious system will encourage each of these activities. A sick and fearful religious system will seek to remove them."

your are preaching to the choir, brother parsiwan. The center of this religion is the fear center of the brain, the amygdyla.

[Wrayun]

It doesn't matter...Islam is Arab culture... Allah was the name of biggest Idol in Kahbah....

Do you cross check your nonsense? If Allah was the biggest idol in Kaba did the Arab Christians and Jews worshiped this idol because they used Allah to refer to God as well? In Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, God is referred to as Alaha, and in Hebrew as Eloh. Were they idols too?

Allah in Arabic, Alaha in Aramiac, Eloh in Hebrew, in all 3 semitic languages mean the same thing = God. All the nonsense associated with Allah being an idol or the moon god has been debunked. Utter garbage promoted by Christian Evangelists.

Your other retarded argument that Islam is an extension of Arab imperialism etc. is again false. We see evidence for that in Iran. What sort of political and cultural hegemony do Arabs have over present day Iran? It is a fact that Iranian/Persian brand of Islam i.e. Shiaism is a threat to Arab culture and political establishment. Persian culture, traditions, and language are exported using this brand of Islam. This argument of yours is a failure in epic magnitudes. It is one of the reason why Shias are curbed in many of the Arab states. In other places Shia ares viewed as Iranian political tools like Iraq, Afghanistan, the Gul and Pakistan.

Islam was also used to promote Afghan culture, style, diet, and rule over the Indian subcontinent for centuries.

[parsiwaan]

Do you cross check your nonsense? If Allah was the biggest idol in Kaba did the Arab Christians and Jews worshiped this idol because they used Allah to refer to God as well? In Aramaic, the language that Jesus spoke, God is referred to as Alaha, and in Hebrew as Eloh. Were they idols too?

Allah in Arabic, Alaha in Aramiac, Eloh in Hebrew, in all 3 semitic languages mean the same thing = God. All the nonsense associated with Allah being an idol or the moon god has been debunked. Utter garbage promoted by Christian Evangelists.
Your other retarded argument that Islam is an extension of Arab imperialism etc. is again false. We see evidence for that in Iran. What sort of political and cultural hegemony do Arabs have over present day Iran? It is a fact that Iranian/Persian brand of Islam i.e. Shiaism is a threat to Arab culture and political establishment. Persian culture, traditions, and language are exported using this brand of Islam. This argument of yours is a failure in epic magnitudes. It is one of the reason why Shias are curbed in many of the Arab states. In other places Shia ares viewed as Iranian political tools like Iraq, Afghanistan, the Gul and Pakistan.

Islam was also used to promote Afghan culture, style, diet, and rule over the Indian subcontinent for centuries.

You should google god in Hebrew before making up stuff...

YHVH is the only proper "name of God" in the Hebrew. Whereas words such as Elohim (god, or authority), El (mighty one), Shaddai (almighty), Adonai (master), Elyon (most high), Avinu (our father), etc. are not names but titles, highlighting different aspects of YHVH, and the various roles which God has. The simple fact that Mohammad father was named Abdullah(creature of Allah) indicates the per-islamic and pegan orgine of name allah.

Lets cute this bs and answer few question….Islam is a religion that has shunned idol worshipping completely. My understanding is that idol worshipping is disrespectful to God because all matter has been created by God hence it is illogical to use matter for the purposes of worship. THEN Why do Muslims face the kaaba for their prayers? Why is the kaaba, then, referred to as "the lords house"? Clearly if the lord is formless, eternal and omnipotent how can he have a house? Also, if matter is not to be regarded as sacred, then what is the purpose of kissing and walking around the kaaba?

Finally, idol worship is also regarded as blasphemy because Muslims regard it sinful to depict God in human/manlike images. However, at the same time Muslims refer to God as "Merciful, benevelolent and all-compassionate". Clearly these are nothing more than human emotions and characteristics.

Below is inside Kabah…A room muslim worship.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3163/2894833652_1cf04bdb1f.jpg?v=0






As for as Shai'sm you have no idea.... until 16th century majority of Iran were Zoroastrian, and Suni...it was after raise of Turkish Saffavid empire…which was founded by a Sufi order that goes back to Safi-Al-din..who converted to Shi’ism for political purpose---in order to have a distinct and unique identity as oppose to their fallow Turkish enemies Ottoman and Uzbaks. At beginning the Saffavid had their capital in Tabriz but Ottoman capture and burn it…so they move future south/east to Isfahaan.
To this day the Iranian beat themselves like animal for 40 days cause of some Arab that was killed 1400 years ago…and yet you question the arab imperialism? Almost all the IRI ruler…all the Akhonds are Arab by blood…including Imam Khomeini…you should go and read about them. There is no Persian in these akhonds, its all Arab cities of Najaf, and Karbalah center of Shai powers…where millions of Iranians go each year and bestow their money to Arabs there.

[Manzareh]

I think Pakhtana have a 1hour slot on DM Digital. its monogamous Pashto music albeit poor attempt.
Granted it’s not a “true” reflection of Pakhtana but it has a captivating Pashto audience.

At one point I did contact the show and asked if this a true reflection of Pakhtana, his answer was interesting and sadly true.
It went along the lines of “ Pakhtana demand music and what we show reflect their demand/choice” At that point I was speechless and unable to really argue.

Pakhtana need to understand ( as most here will agree) that Education is priceless and should be a core teaching in their/your upbringing.
The struggle Pakhtana are and will face will be the most difficult times in their existence, they will prevail god willing but need to think with their head and not with their heart.

Is that it a 1hour slot on ****ty DM digital and were labelled 'Damaan'..this is absoloute nonsence, pukhtana have an image of anything but not into music or damaan. there are music gangs and dj's,radio,tracks of every single ethninic group in england APART from pukhtana..when he said "Pakhtana demand music" you should have said to him they dont need to demand it theres plenty of pukhtana in england if they really wanted to thed be plently of pukhtun singers, rappers, dj's..which there isnt and its not people view of pukhtana. pukhtanas are either the typical doctor, local area don lol music doesnt even come into the equation.

[Manzareh]

Parsiwaan, when asked a question you just type it into google and copy and paste the first link you see, i count this as spamming, and it only proves that you cannot have a reasonable debate. you said something like allah was an idol in the kaaba and so the muslims worship the idol etc what you need to understand is that the word "Allah" means "God" simply..allah has 99 names and not one of the 99 is "Allah" so in essence all the gods the ideolizers worshiped were "Allahs" got it??? secoundly you mentioned something like arab culture is Islam..which again is proposterous..Islam came and abolished most of Arab traditions..arab culture was drinking alchohol, fornication, dancing, music, burying the daughters of the house alive etc etc Muhammed SAW came and changed this..SO we dont follow arabian culture, those that do i.e wear a jubba(arabian long shirt) for example do it with no islamic benefit as it means nothing in islam as islam only states that you wear loose clothing, it can be anything but they do it to imitate the arabs for there own reasons, they adapted the dress sence. i dont mind debating with you and im pretty confident all refute all your claims, but do it in way apart from pasting long article that i doubt u read yourself.

[Wrayun]

Parsiwan,

When caught with disinformation, it's better to let it go instead of continuing to make a jackass out of yourself.

In your own post you said that Elohim means = god. Elohim is plural for Eloh, which is the Hebrew form of Allah/illah = god. YHWH or Yahweh is the personal name given to the Abrahamic God. Allah is not a personal name, it is a standard term to mean God. Just like Eloh, is a standard term for God in Hebrew. You are confusing yourself and everyone with you.

As for your claim that most of the Akhonds, Mullahs, Malvis are Arabs and not Persians, you are again lying between your teeth. Your very own Persian historians make the claim that many of these people who have attached Arabic names and titles to themselves were originally Persians. You also have to defend what Persian is, a race? Or an ethnicity? You fail again in that respect. There is no such thing as Persian blood.

When Iranians beat themselves for 40 days over some Arabs, guess who is laughing? THE FREAKING ARABS!!!!!! The Arabs laugh at them for doing this non-Islamic "kaafir, shia, bidah" act of self-mutilation, which btw has roots in indigenous cultures and beliefs.

[Khidr]

Come on Jasmina, you know very well, once Pakhtunkhwa joins Afghanistan those northern areas will create civil war and break away.

Parsiwan and Kadir are great examples.

Northern areas are of absolutely zero importance. Main trade routes go through us anyway.

They wont accept a Majority Pashtun, this is a fact.

Are you that Waziri guy?

I think you have a reasonable grasp of reality and dire situation of your people, but the way you articulate your opinions to your people in this very ‘raw’ and ‘crude’ manner won’t get you anywhere. You may not be a Muslim, but you have to respect that that 99% of your people (at least superficially and culturally) consider themselves Muslims. I understand you come here and feel hopeless at the dire status of your people, and how politically naive they are but you have to keep your patience. When you attack their religion, you isolate them and they are inclined to reject whatever meaningful thing you have to say. You’re indirectly feeding into the ISI’s hands, by playing the rule of a kufr.


As for your comment on Tajiks. Listen buddy, we Tajiks have nothing against you or wish to rule over you or whatever. I don’t even hate you guys from east of Durrand Line. I just don’t want to live with you, or have anything to do with you. I have very little in common with you and your people. As I’m sure you don’t want to live with me or have anything to do with me. I’m all for your Pashtun unity with Afghani Pashtuns. Good Luck. I would love nothing more than to see Pakistan breakup. But just don’t expect to imprison my people in your Pashtunistan or come to my Khurasan...because then you will be playing the role of the Punjabis in today's Pakistan and I will have no option but to fight you.

Peace.

[khyaal]

We Pakhtons not (ISI sold out or persianszed Pakhton)need our own country where we can live the way we want to ,where we can speak our own language without some dog face tell us that it's the language of hell ,i'v natin against Panjabies ,sindies, Farsiwans and other but we don't want to share country with them anymore,I don't believe in racesim or want creat some sort of pure race,we welcome anybody who want to live in our Pakhtinistan with us if he/she adopt our language and culture,my Pakhtinistan might sound far fetched but one day it will pick up momintum, long live pakhtonistan.

Afghanistan is a failed state and big farce ,Pakistan is and was British creation it will crumble one day so Pakhtonistan is the future ,god willing.

No. We don't recognise the often quoted (in this forum) false and fallacious simile between the British brainchild Pakistan and the undisputed land of Pashtun/Afghans, i.e., Afghanistan.

These ISI agents in the guise of Pashtuns often present some hypothetical persianised Pashtuns in Afghanistan to justify Punjab's occupation of Pakhtunkhwa. This way these agents wish to dilute or counter Pashtuns/afghans hate for Pakistan by creating hypothetical enemies of Pashtuns in Afghanistan.

If these so-called proponents of Pakhtunistan (an ethnocentric idea of Pashtun land) are really interested in reunion with Pashtun/afghans of Azad Afghanistan they first must prove it by liberating at least one or two districts of Occupied Pakhtunkwha from Pakistan.