Kandahar's Latest Problem ala CENTCOM

[abassinafghan]

lol ismail khan the iranian agent ??? the americans have such a good saying , i guess its called , "talk is cheap "

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai

i find it amusing how you want to try to be "serious" by posting nonsence written by people who dont even speak the languages of the country about they are writting books .

none of this so called experts even wasted a second about afg in the 90s ,and just know about it by rambo movies , and today they write so called scholastic and political educational books by calling narrations of lalas and mamas which they met some how some where .... among them bull**** like kite runner , the war of charlie wilson , the story of ahmad khar masoud , and the taliban who fought the russians . bla bla bla

please stop to explain us what is goint on in khandahar by qouting those people , you make people laugh about you if you would say such things among afghans , and i mean grown up not the little cyber arm chair ghazian

A studied security analyst is entirely different than Khalid Husseini.

Also the issue of relying solely on one's own experiences (although they may be valuable), is that they are nonindependent aned shaded with our own perception filters and biases.

For instance, a Hazara fellow once told me how amazing the US presence was because his grandfather and his father suffered under the Pashtuns. This was his example... the issue with such a simplistic analysis is that it lacks a deep introspective view into the history. He did not understand, and his listeners may not understand that time point zero did not begin with his grandfather. Time point zero, per Y chromosome studies began when Genghis brought regiments to Afghanistan and left behind that day's equivalent of permanent bases amongst the natives. Thriving cities were mowed down. What is happening today and what was happening in his grandfathers day has to be linked inextricably to the fact that his ancestors were invaders and the home base simply collapsed. So now, the occupant's descendents was locked in a sea of Pashtun natives.

Does that make what happened to his grandfather and father right? No, because time marches on and in Islam sons do not carry the sins of their fathers and vice versa.

In the Pashtun regions, for example, if one is to rely on the Afghan narrative, then a reference to Zaeef's book would obliterate criticism of the Taliban ISI patsy link. However, citing that book would result in a series of ad hominem attacks on the Taliban and claims that the book was inaccurate simply because it derives from them.

By this same token, if Najibullah wrote a book and told his version of events, both his and Zaeef's books would offer important information to analysts, but in a discussion of this sort, the religionists would not give weight to Najib book, viewing it as apologetics.

Therefore, independent analyses must be sought.

Take, as another example, Farhat Taj ANDERSEN. She loves to introduce supposed "facts on the ground" narratives that lead to dead ends and are devoid of proof or in their worst case scenarios are low sample size data points (number interviewed equals 50 people who are friends with her dad) and then this is projected over a population of millions.

Finally, if you read this article in the first post,the author knows dari, traveled to Afghanistan, interviewed all the people involved, access the UN investigation records into the killing, and did a great job exposing Abdul Razziq as a murderer.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

Barakzai

i find it amusing how you want to try to be "serious" by posting nonsence written by people who dont even speak the languages of the country about they are writting books .

none of this so called experts even wasted a second about afg in the 90s ,and just know about it by rambo movies , and today they write so called scholastic and political educational books by calling narrations of lalas and mamas which they met some how some where .... among them bull**** like kite runner , the war of charlie wilson , the story of ahmad khar masoud , and the taliban who fought the russians . bla bla bla

please stop to explain us what is goint on in khandahar by qouting those people , you make people laugh about you if you would say such things among afghans , and i mean grown up not the little cyber arm chair ghazian

Also, the "grown up" Afghans like Mr Karzai left their country high and dry in its hour of need and acted like little kids, leaving the rest of the country to fight the occupation.

Mr. Karzai's view of the front line of the fight against the soviets is about as valuable as any of these white guys. In fact, even less valuable as folks like Milt Bearden and the Irish fellow at Harvard mentioned in the article were there as witnesses to events.

Also, I find it interesting that these "grown ups" would laugh at Abdul Razzaq killing 15 additional members of a family in badal with an aimable machine gun. The pictures dont lie and the investigation id dam-ning.

[Alchemist]

Alchemist, your level of nonsense is indescribable, you not only lie about what people state, you have little to no information on things you discuss.

you need to know the difference between allegations and EVIDENCE.

Ismail Khan is opposed by the U.S. which isn't much to say about your Pro U.S. hero Massoud. And he opposed U.S. bases in Afghanistan. Sure he might not be willing to murder and massacre his own civilians as the Taliban would, and thus is willing to use other means to deal with issues; but so did Muhammad(saw) any sane person can see that's better than blowing up women and children to get one NATO soldier at a check point.

If you weren't brainwashed yourself, you'd have known this.

First of all Jackass...

You are in the wrong thread. FAIL!

Secondly...




Yeah...that looks like oppositions. (FAIL)

Corroborated eye witness testimony = Evidence. (FAIL!)

[Millatpal Noorzai]

Ismat Muslim was one of the worst people in the history of our region. Even Najibullah disowned this ba-stard:



Ismat had no real isses with the ISI, except that they werent arming him with enough to kill more Noorzais with.

In fact, Rubin's text goes on to confirm that he worked with them initially and then, when Najib started to get feisty with him he tried to go back to them:

"he later tried to defect back to the other side, but the ISI refused to meet his conditions...."


There you have it... Ismat the drunkard, w-hore loving, crack smoking pimp ready to sell his allegience for two cars.


"Razik’s uncle Mansour, who had survived Esmat’s departure by rejoining the mujahideen, was hanged from the gun of a tank north of Spin Boldak by the Taliban. Razik’s father also was killed, and his family, along with many Achakzai tribal leaders, fled into exile in Pakistan—until the U.S.-led invasion arrived like a thunderbolt."

In fact he speaks to Fida Muhammad Achakzai.

Mansur was also a member of Ismat Khan's infamous communist militia.

Finally, the greater ethical issue is not Razaq doing Badal, in answering your question of what one would do in his situation... its the hypocrites here who claim that their interventionalist faction (i.e. formerly the communists but peculiarly now the secular capitalist democrats) is more humane and somehow better. This is not the case... and their utilization of US fire power to accomplish these bloody goals of killing a 15 year old at close range is no different than what they harangue against.

Its also Mr. Noorzai of CENTCOM that has to address such failings in the US Military's adherence to the Leahy Law which prohibits funding local militias that have committed known war crimes.

"Moral questions aside, Raziq’s record of reported human-rights abuses should make it illegal for the U.S. to train and assist his forces. In 1997, in response to abuses by the Colombian army, Congress passed the Leahy Amendment, named after its sponsor and most vocal advocate, Senator Patrick Leahy, a Democrat from Vermont. The law prohibits State Department or Defense Department assistance or training to a foreign military unit where there is “credible evidence that such unit has committed gross violations of human rights.”

So the basis for their support of Mr. Karzai vanishes like a mirage and has nothing at all to do with betterment of Afghanistan.

Regarding Razziq's supposed imprisonment, thats a farcical tale:


Regarding Shin's history, the verdict is still out and no proof at all exists of any ISI collaboration. Thats a of unsubstantiated excuses.

"Raziq and Lalai had together lured Shin and his associates to Kabul. The tribes to which Raziq and Shin belonged had been feuding over smuggling routes, and Raziq held Shin responsible for the 2004 killing of his brother. Shin had been a marked man ever since. His 15 companions were just going to be collateral damage."

It is indisputable that Esmat Muslim was an alcoholic and who-re lover but unfortunately in Pashtun tribal system the more ruthless one is, the more respect he gains. Yes, he was evil but he was respected by his tribe for that. And at the time when he was dug up by Hafiz Majid, he was dead!
Esmat Muslim initially was with the Mujahideen of Spin Boldak Hezb e Islami group lead by Nemat Khan Noorzai (currently a kiss as* and close ally of Karzai). Later, he deserted from Mujahideen and joined the communists. It was during those times, that he became an alcoholic and womanizer. Najib disowned him when Esmat danced with his wife in a party in Kabul where he was and it was recorded on a VHS. There was an uproar by Pashtun tribal elders and Najib took notice of it by removing Esmat off his good books. Keep in mind half of Esmat Muslim's commander and militia members were from Noorzai tribe. Esmat did not have tribal differences with Noorzais but the with the people that were associated with Mujahideen groups that he had deserted from and hated upon. Esmat Muslims was a hard core communist who did not believe in social classification and did not like elements such as tribal elder, village elder, feudal, Khan etc. One day he invited around 40 Khans of both tribes in Spin Boldak for dinner to his Qarargah (base to the south of Bazaar). Esmat drugged them and later killed them throwing their bodies in a well. When asked he replied; "these are the ****s that has put our society backwards and do not let the communism to flourish". Even though he had killed most of the Khans of his tribe but ISI backed Mujahideen of Noorzai tribe used this killing to wage a war on Assakzais in general.
There were two militias known for their brutality in the South of Afghanistan. One was Esmat Muslim's militia and the other was Jabbar Qahraman's militia (Jabbar is a Noorzai from Maiwand district of Kandahar and a current parliamentarian). Both of these militias are reported to have been involved in extreme brutalities to include extra judicial killings and raping women in Kabul. Today, most of the members of these militias are regarded as "pro-democracy" humble citizens privileged with higher gov't posts and millions of dollars.
I will not comment on Leahy law because not only this but tons of other laws and regulations have been ignored or set aside in the ongoing war. When the legitimacy of this war is questioned from the get go then there is no room left for the enforcement of certain regulations/laws.
Raziq's imprisonment is not a farcical tale. I made it clear in my previous post that i will be giving a first hand insight which may not exactly reflect what you read or see on media sources.
Raziq was questioned, put in a compound of NDS in Kabul till later released as a result of a request made by tribal elders.
There is no feud between the two tribes in large but just in this one district (Spin Boldak) of Afghanistan and even there, it is between a few families not in general. Noorzai and Assakzais are the most inter-related tribes in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Qari Hamdullah S/O Haji Waali (originally from Boldak but raised in Chaman, has been a minister in Pakistani gov't) is a person from Noorzai tribe fueling the animosity on his side whereas Raziq who is not so much into this stuff but is played in the hands of a few instigators is doing so from Assakzai tribe.

I am not vouching for Raziq and am not an advocate defending his ruthless killings of the innocents that he killed with Shin. Shin not only may have killed his brothers but had killed a lot of other people in Pakistan and finally was met with what he inflicted on other people.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

It is indisputable that Esmat Muslim was an alcoholic and who-re lover but unfortunately in Pashtun tribal system the more ruthless one is, the more respect he gains. Yes, he was evil but he was respected by his tribe for that. And at the time when he was dug up by Hafiz Majid, he was dead!
Esmat Muslim initially was with the Mujahideen of Spin Boldak Hezb e Islami group lead by Nemat Khan Noorzai (currently a kiss as* and close ally of Karzai). Later, he deserted from Mujahideen and joined the communists. It was during those times, that he became an alcoholic and womanizer. Najib disowned him when Esmat danced with his wife in a party in Kabul where he was and it was recorded on a VHS. There was an uproar by Pashtun tribal elders and Najib took notice of it by removing Esmat off his good books. Keep in mind half of Esmat Muslim's commander and militia members were from Noorzai tribe. Esmat did not have tribal differences with Noorzais but the with the people that were associated with Mujahideen groups that he had deserted from and hated upon. Esmat Muslims was a hard core communist who did not believe in social classification and did not like elements such as tribal elder, village elder, feudal, Khan etc. One day he invited around 40 Khans of both tribes in Spin Boldak for dinner to his Qarargah (base to the south of Bazaar). Esmat drugged them and later killed them throwing their bodies in a well. When asked he replied; "these are the ****s that has put our society backwards and do not let the communism to flourish". Even though he had killed most of the Khans of his tribe but ISI backed Mujahideen of Noorzai tribe used this killing to wage a war on Assakzais in general.
There were two militias known for their brutality in the South of Afghanistan. One was Esmat Muslim's militia and the other was Jabbar Qahraman's militia (Jabbar is a Noorzai from Maiwand district of Kandahar and a current parliamentarian). Both of these militias are reported to have been involved in extreme brutalities to include extra judicial killings and raping women in Kabul. Today, most of the members of these militias are regarded as "pro-democracy" humble citizens privileged with higher gov't posts and millions of dollars.
I will not comment on Leahy law because not only this but tons of other laws and regulations have been ignored or set aside in the ongoing war. When the legitimacy of this war is questioned from the get go then there is no room left for the enforcement of certain regulations/laws.
Raziq's imprisonment is not a farcical tale. I made it clear in my previous post that i will be giving a first hand insight which may not exactly reflect what you read or see on media sources.
Raziq was questioned, put in a compound of NDS in Kabul till later released as a result of a request made by tribal elders.
There is no feud between the two tribes in large but just in this one district (Spin Boldak) of Afghanistan and even there, it is between a few families not in general. Noorzai and Assakzais are the most inter-related tribes in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Qari Hamdullah S/O Haji Waali (originally from Boldak but raised in Chaman, has been a minister in Pakistani gov't) is a person from Noorzai tribe fueling the animosity on his side whereas Raziq who is not so much into this stuff but is played in the hands of a few instigators is doing so from Assakzai tribe.

I am not vouching for Raziq and am not an advocate defending his ruthless killings of the innocents that he killed with Shin. Shin not only may have killed his brothers but had killed a lot of other people in Pakistan and finally was met with what he inflicted on other people.

Thank you for the commentary.

I agree, the Malizai clan issues on the border in Chaman made things very difficult for even crossing over into Afghanistan because of all the ruckus it caused.

However, I dont think the Achakzai on that side of the border get off free either. The Ghabizyaan and Hamidzyaan dispute in the 90s made life horrible for many people in Quetta as well.

Also, the Hamidzai leadership also colludes with the Pakistani leadership as much as that Hamdullah.. in fact had Haji Mohmad become leader of the Hamidzai, instead of a certain PMAP individual, the direction of the Achakzai might have gone in a completely different trajectory.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

It is indisputable that Esmat Muslim was an alcoholic and who-re lover but unfortunately in Pashtun tribal system the more ruthless one is, the more respect he gains. Yes, he was evil but he was respected by his tribe for that. And at the time when he was dug up by Hafiz Majid, he was dead!
Esmat Muslim initially was with the Mujahideen of Spin Boldak Hezb e Islami group lead by Nemat Khan Noorzai (currently a kiss as* and close ally of Karzai). Later, he deserted from Mujahideen and joined the communists. It was during those times, that he became an alcoholic and womanizer. Najib disowned him when Esmat danced with his wife in a party in Kabul where he was and it was recorded on a VHS. There was an uproar by Pashtun tribal elders and Najib took notice of it by removing Esmat off his good books. Keep in mind half of Esmat Muslim's commander and militia members were from Noorzai tribe. Esmat did not have tribal differences with Noorzais but the with the people that were associated with Mujahideen groups that he had deserted from and hated upon. Esmat Muslims was a hard core communist who did not believe in social classification and did not like elements such as tribal elder, village elder, feudal, Khan etc. One day he invited around 40 Khans of both tribes in Spin Boldak for dinner to his Qarargah (base to the south of Bazaar). Esmat drugged them and later killed them throwing their bodies in a well. When asked he replied; "these are the ****s that has put our society backwards and do not let the communism to flourish". Even though he had killed most of the Khans of his tribe but ISI backed Mujahideen of Noorzai tribe used this killing to wage a war on Assakzais in general.
There were two militias known for their brutality in the South of Afghanistan. One was Esmat Muslim's militia and the other was Jabbar Qahraman's militia (Jabbar is a Noorzai from Maiwand district of Kandahar and a current parliamentarian). Both of these militias are reported to have been involved in extreme brutalities to include extra judicial killings and raping women in Kabul. Today, most of the members of these militias are regarded as "pro-democracy" humble citizens privileged with higher gov't posts and millions of dollars.
I will not comment on Leahy law because not only this but tons of other laws and regulations have been ignored or set aside in the ongoing war. When the legitimacy of this war is questioned from the get go then there is no room left for the enforcement of certain regulations/laws.
Raziq's imprisonment is not a farcical tale. I made it clear in my previous post that i will be giving a first hand insight which may not exactly reflect what you read or see on media sources.
Raziq was questioned, put in a compound of NDS in Kabul till later released as a result of a request made by tribal elders.
There is no feud between the two tribes in large but just in this one district (Spin Boldak) of Afghanistan and even there, it is between a few families not in general. Noorzai and Assakzais are the most inter-related tribes in Pakistan and Afghanistan.
Qari Hamdullah S/O Haji Waali (originally from Boldak but raised in Chaman, has been a minister in Pakistani gov't) is a person from Noorzai tribe fueling the animosity on his side whereas Raziq who is not so much into this stuff but is played in the hands of a few instigators is doing so from Assakzai tribe.

I am not vouching for Raziq and am not an advocate defending his ruthless killings of the innocents that he killed with Shin. Shin not only may have killed his brothers but had killed a lot of other people in Pakistan and finally was met with what he inflicted on other people.

Also, I think this is the issue as well, in that folks are trying to present Mansur and Esmat as some sort of superheros of ethical issues because they supposedly took a stance against the ISI. In fact, as you noted, this is not the case. These guys were murderers as well and just wanted $$$ from the highest bidder.

Additionally, Shin may have been a stupid thug... but not every stupid thug is an ISI affiliate.

This is essentially the problem... anyone Razaq kills, he can just label as Taliban or ISI and this is exactly what happens when people dont take responsibility for the mess that these sorts of guys caused.

[Millatpal Noorzai]

Thank you for your input Barakzai Saheb. Its nice to see someone bringing atrocities like this into light.

[ScimitarXEdge]

First of all Jackass...

You are in the wrong thread. FAIL!

Secondly...


Yeah...that looks like oppositions. (FAIL)

Corroborated eye witness testimony = Evidence. (FAIL!)

oh yeah a picture with leaders.... totally a smoking gun ...you schooled me....

so what does this picture indicate to you if a picture is evidence of subservience




All you have proven is you're an idiot who'll jump to asinine conclusions; not that you've proven that Ismai'l Khan is favored by the U.S. to look like their man in Afghanistan because there's a picture with Rumsfeld.

do some reading ...instead of acting like you haven't reached puberty and posting stupid internet memes to impress little boys.

corroborated eye witness testimony ? Then how come there's so many allegedlies involved? corroborated evidence doesn't have such uncertainties

Nice try homo. and yes the fact you arbitrarily mention me warrants you being labeled a homo.

[ScimitarXEdge]

And you ask what does CENTCOM have to do with:

This is how naive and simple minded people like ScimitarDullEdge get brainwashed into thinking that warlords like Ismail Khar, BeyHematyar are "lesser evils":


It is estimated that Razik pulls in between $5 million and $6 million per month in revenues, money he has invested in properties in Kabul and Kandahar and also abroad, in Dubai and Tajikistan.

yeah wrong thread eh? Did you NOT make this post in this thread?

Either you're hair brained or obsessed with me; that I become the focus of every post you make here. And you say I'm wrongfully calling you a homosexual?

Men's fixation with other men = faggy

[Alchemist]

Nice try jackass... but you are just posting a picture and hoping to MOTHER NATURE (swt) that everyone is an idiot and will think that a pakistani and a saudi sitting next to Masood means he is their puppet.

The Peshawar Accord was aimed at providing a framework for an interim government, to be implemented in two stages. The first was to dispatch Mujaddidi to Kabul as a compromise choice, to head a two-month transitional government. The second was to enable a longer term interim government, headed by Rabbani—whose control of Kabul through Massoud provided him with extra political clout—to take over from the transitional government for a period of four months. This was to be followed by the holding of a Council of Solution and Pact to constitute an interim government for eighteen months as a prelude to an election. The main flaw in the Peshawar Accord was that it only needed the disaffection of one key party to wreck the whole thing. And this was precisely what happened. Hekmatyar’s power ambitions rapidly led him to work against the Peshawar Agreement, which he had not even signed. He argued that under the Agreement the position of prime minister (reserved by the signatories for the Hezb) should not be subordinated to that of the president; and that the position of defence minister, to which Massoud had been appointed by Mujaddidi, should function at the behest of the prime minister. Although Mujaddidi’s efforts to prolong his interim presidency from two months to two years had created considerable difficulties between him and Massoud, who viewed the implementation of the Peshawar Agreement as the best course of action, ultimately it was Hekmatyar’s obstructionism that rendered the Agreement totally ineffective.[6]
Initially Hekmatyar nominated one of his aides, Abdul Saboor Farid, to assume the premiership, but Hekmatyar himself refused to enter Kabul and used every excuse possible to undermine the Rabbani government. In early August 1992, he launched a barrage of rockets against Kabul which killed over a thousand civilians. His aim was to weaken the dominance of Jamiat in the coalition which included Dostum and a formerly close Pushtun ally of Hekmatyar, Sayyaf. While ignoring his own alliance with former Pushtun Khalqi communist ministers, such as General Tanai and Aslarn Watanjar (who had also defected to Hekmatyar after the failure of the Tanai-led coup), Hekmatyar attacked Massoud’s alliance with Dostum and sought to catalyse conflict between Jamiat and Wahdat by encouraging Sayyaf to move against them forcefully, so that he could ally himself with them once they had left Rabbani’s government.
On March 7, 1993, Saudi King Fahd sponsored a peace accord between the warring factions, mostly the Mujahideen leaders in Islamabad. All the participants agreed with a new proposal that appointed Rabbani as president and Hekmatyar as prime minister. Later King Fahd invited all the Afghan leaders to Mecca, and they swore in the Holy Kaaba to stand by their agreement. However, this agreement was never prac*ticed effectively. Hekmatyar never held his official position as prime minister, and further fighting continued.[7] Even after he was named prime minister,[8] Hekmatyar remained outside Kabul, and in January 1994, in alliance with his erstwhile enemy Dostum and with Hezb-e Wahdat and Mujaddidi, he unleashed the most ferocious artillery and rocket attacks that the capital had ever experienced. By the end of 1994, Hekmatyar’s indiscriminate bombardment of Kabul had managed to destroy half of the city and kill some 25,000 of its citizen

He had to call Hekymatyar's Pakistani bosses to the table ...but that psychopath, hekmatyar whom you think is a saint didn't care for peace.

not that you've proven that Ismai'l Khan is favored by the U.S. to look like their man in Afghanistan because there's a picture with Rumsfeld.

Rumsfeld describes Ismail Khan to reporters after his visit as "appealing person, thoughtful, measured and self-confident"...

For its own part, the Center for Defense Information (CDI) is quite clear about what happened: “a group of armed Afghans patrolling near a US air base at Shindand started shooting at another group of armed Afghans, killing at least 11. In response, US troops called in B-52 bombers…The incident started when Pashtun commander Amanullah Khan’s forces attacked positions held by Herat governor Ismail Khan and advanced toward Shindand, before they were forced back to their positions.” The CDI’s assessment, then, seems simply to be that American bombers fended off an attack on a “US-backed governor” by a rival warlord.

What more proof do you want jackass?




PWNED

AGAIN!!

p.s - if a man is fixated with the prophet of God, does that make him faggy? Just trying to see how your "logic" works.