Kandahar Cultural Capital (split from Karachi Violence thread)

[Shayesta]

Don't start judging Pukhtoons so quickly my friends! If Pukhtoons for once don't fight back against someone and turn to government for justice, we call them beghairat for 'crying like women', but when in revenge we also start killing people then again it's our own people who will call us 'wahshi'. So you tell us all, what should we do!? In Hazarajat of Afghanistan other ethnics were trying their best to make Pukhtoons suffer so much economically that they leave for South of Afghanistan, which majority did back then and none bothered to show this on news. But when last month when some Kuchi's had enough and took revenge on Hazara's, all of a sudden we became naqaleen, wahshi, ghol and you name it for fighting against Hazara's: While they were interfering and acting like a boss ever since US invasion!

It's too sad our people in here can't see the grievance of our people back home, very sad. Others inform the news as soon as Pukhtoons kill someone, but when Pukhtoons are killed in return we had rather just sit back and watch. We Pukhtoons keep telling each other we should respect our fellow countrymen in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but when we never get any respect in return still we blame ourselves for not being accepted by them. And then we think it's funny entire world knows us as wahshi?! Shame on all of us!

[BLS_1919v2.0]

Don't start judging Pukhtoons so quickly my friends! If Pukhtoons for once don't fight back against someone and turn to government for justice, we call them beghairat for 'crying like women', but when in revenge we also start killing people then again it's our own people who will call us 'wahshi'. So you tell us all, what should we do!? In Hazarajat of Afghanistan other ethnics were trying their best to make Pukhtoons suffer so much economically that they leave for South of Afghanistan, which majority did back then and none bothered to show this on news. But when last month when some Kuchi's had enough and took revenge on Hazara's, all of a sudden we became naqaleen, wahshi, ghol and you name it for fighting against Hazara's: While they were interfering and acting like a boss ever since US invasion!

It's too sad our people in here can't see the grievance of our people back home, very sad. Others inform the news as soon as Pukhtoons kill someone, but when Pukhtoons are killed in return we had rather just sit back and watch. We Pukhtoons keep telling each other we should respect our fellow countrymen in Pakistan or Afghanistan, but when we never get any respect in return still we blame ourselves for not being accepted by them. And then we think it's funny entire world knows us as wahshi?! Shame on all of us!

We are to blame for this. We are so petty we fight over small things amongst ourselves. It would have been better if we (at least the educated) got on a platform and used our jirga to bring problems forward. We are either dreaming of previous glories or just don't care.

[Shayesta]

^ Even that is a lost dream because all the educated Pukhtoons in Afghanistan will only be set in higher position if they are 'Persianized', and surely most educated Pukhtoons in Pakistan have Punjabised/Urdufied (however you spell it) long ago. Until and unless we don't create a state of our own, our race will continue 'dying' and if we decide we never want a land of our own then mark my words, within just ONE century people will ask: What is a Pukhtoon?

[Michin Khel]

^ Even that is a lost dream because all the educated Pukhtoons in Afghanistan will only be set in higher position if they are 'Persianized', and surely most educated Pukhtoons in Pakistan have Punjabised/Urdufied (however you spell it) long ago. Until and unless we don't create a state of our own, our race will continue 'dying' and if we decide we never want a land of our own then mark my words, within just ONE century people will ask: What is a Pukhtoon?

We have state of our own, afghanistan. If we can not manage afghanistan then we have to admit that we are very useless people.

[Shayesta]

^ So you basically disagree to agree with me? There are much more Pukhtoons in Northern areas than Tajiks in Southern areas and guess what? Nearly all those Pukhtoons are bound to lose their language and culture to Dari and Tajiks. Pakhtunkhwa hasn't been a part of Pakistan for a century now and you yourself stated that they prefer speaking in Urdu now, so you seriously think in another one century they will actually go BACK to Pukhto instead of continuing with Urdu? I don't think so my dear. And what's the use of Afghanistan's most dangerous, most corrupted and highest level of emigrants' province (Kandahar) to be only province where 100% speak Pukhto? I don't see any use of it, do you?

We have state of our own, afghanistan. If we can not manage afghanistan then we have to admit that we are very useless people.

How you want Pukhtoons in Afghanistan to manage Afghanistan, despite of all non-Pukhtoon Afghans plus over 40 NATO countries are putting pressure on us; Politically AND culturally? We still got Pakhtunkhwa as our 'second' home but lemme not even start about people of Pakhtunkhwa...........

[Shayesta]

What is the use of Kandahar? Kandahar is the home to many books, professors, and researchers pretty much everyone you take pride in is Kandahary.

You would have done yourself a favour if you had read my posts more clearly. I said what's the use of it if ONLY Kandahar is a 100% Pukhto speaking province while more than half of Afghans are Pukhtoons? You have got no idea how massive the amount of Kandaharis leaving Kandahar is; I have seen it. The most educated Kandaharis are forced to leave their homes, otherwise Taliban is gonna be on it's way. What's left in Kandahar if only hope of Pukhto and Pukhtoons move to Kabul and officially accept Dari as their mother tongue a generation or two later?

Rememeber the Pashtun who built on the the best Muslim empires of all time? Ahmad Shah Baba? He was a Kandahari. Remember the Pashtun who ruled Persia and burned Isfahan in revenge? The Hotakis? They were Kandaharis.

I know who the Kandaharis were and I love Kandaharis as much as I love any other Pukhtoons. Did you in fact know that my forefathers were actually Ahmadzai from Kandahar? I only found this out after my visit to Afghanistan.

When people like you criticize ourselves when we are working for an improvement. we can never succeed.

What improvement exactly? Even our founder called Ahmad Shah Baba spoke Dari as first language at home and thanks to his son millions of Pukhtoons lost Pukhto to Dari, because he was the one who changed the capital from Kandahar to Kabul. Remember?

Please speak for yourself, no one out hears speaks Dari.

You sure? Because I can point you out a few from here who don't speak Pukhto at home..........


No need to get overwhelmed, accepting facts is much more of use and I can't help it if you thought I was pointing at Kandahari's only; I am unhappy with majority of Pukhtoons of Afghanistan because what I was trying to get at is ONLY Kandahari's can't keep Pukhto alive. Simple as that. Can you even tell me when was last time you went to Afghanistan and actually what's going on there?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Dear

We can not neglect the fact that ahmad shah was famous for being in love with Dari,Plus he only allowed Durranis to hold the throne and important positions. Maybe this was common at the time, but he did unite all major pashtun tribes which nobody has done in the past or present.

[Zahed]

That is a fabrication and a lie.
I am Kandahary too. That is one of those lies that have been accepted.

No matter what way u twist it, its a fact that Abdali had a Persian wife and used to speak Persian mostly 'cuz only ones who could understand Pashtu back then were Pashtuns themselves! It doesn't mean that he hated his own language, but in a country with huge number of Dari speakers he had to speak Dari. Kabul surely had huge number of Pashtoons but position of Pashtu there never has been strong since it always has been an dominant Tajek area. That's why Pashtu would 've been much popular in Afghanistan if Qandahar had remained the capital, I'm sure 'n surely u would agree as well that Qandaharis would 've done everything to protect their province even if it kept being attacked 'cuz even Kabul now is too dangerous but Tajeks would be nuts to change its capital to a safer 'n to an Pashtun area. 'N I would love to see the source where it says only 30% of Afghanistan is Pashtun lol. U underestimated ur own ethnic in even smaller numbers than Tajeks! 'N if u 're talking about Nick from AF saying Pashtuns 're only 30% then I remember this very same Nick once claim that Pashtuns make up 60% of Afghan population, there u go.

[Shayesta]

The reason it was changed to Kabul was because Kandahar being the most important city of Afghanistan and the cultural capital of Pashtuns it was always under attack. There is a reason why many kings and empires start in Kandahar. They are all very brave and make good leaders.

Even Kabul is the most important province in Afghanistan and 'enemies' won't rest a day without attacking Kabul and still Pukhtoons hold power there, does it mean that capital from Kabul should be changed as well now? Nopes, just like Zahed said, the 'Farsiwanan' will NEVER allow that, they ain't as stupid as us.

So they shifted it to Kabul, Kabul at that time was pure Pashtun and pashto speaking. In fact even today it is still 60 percent Pashtun and they speak pashto in its out skirts just not in the city.

The city matters my dear, the capital matters! Capital of a country will always have a very strong effect on residents of a country because everywhere in the world people are always out on living in the capital, why? Because that's pretty much always the best place to live in economically. And now look what this 'economical purpose' has done to millions of our Pukhtoons.

so missy, do not propagate false information please. stuff like that is what you read on Tajik websites trying to remove our history.

You are saying that I am propagating 'Tajik thinking' even though YOU are the one claiming Pukhtoons make up only 30% of our country!? Please tell me you weren't serious! And as Zahed said, even I am waiting for that 'source' and indeed I have heard Nick before saying we make up at least 60%/70% of our population. What you gonna believe now?

Ahmad Shah Baba even has poetry that praises Pashtuns and Pashto and he will tell people speak Dari? lol I once said what you said to a Kandahary who had a PhD in political science and you should have heard the lecture I got.

Please do tell me what he lectured you about and explain me how he denied that Dari was NOT the first language being spoken in Ahmad Shah Baba's household? And I never said he told people to speak Dari; That's what he used to do himself. For the rest, Zahed has said it all.

[Shayesta]

The capital matters and we Pashtuns are 60percent of the Capital.

And still the capital is known as a province where Dari 'is more than enough', and it's this very same capital where people say you will be nuts if you want to work there but can't speak Dari. Could you please elaborate on this? The city of Kabul is under all attention, not entire Kabul province and despite of Pukhtoons ruling over Kabul for centuries, NONE of them was able to make PUKHTO the first and most spoken language there. Accept the fact buddy.

Its because of negativity from people like you that we can never succeed.

Negative? Then can you please give me an example of positivity? Which lies do I have to bring up to come across as positive? How shall I praise Pukhtoon leaders for bringing up Pukhto while NONE of them even worked for Pukhto?

I never said we make 30 percent. stop making up things please. what source?

Here in your own words:

I can show you sources that now say Pashtuns are only 30 percent. Are you going to repeat that like a parrot as well? or no? Even our Member Nick clarified this.

I would like to know what our member Nick has clarified regarding this?

The man was a proud Pashtun, spoke Pashto, wrote poetry in Pashto and here we have a Pashtana like you lying and saying he spoke Farsi?

Yeah, I am lying by saying he had a Persian wife, his son was completely integrated into Persian culture and I am actually fooling myself by saying he was only and always speaking Pukhto: Even with Hazaras, Tajiks, Nurestanis, etcetera who back then didn't understand a word of Pukhto. So indeed, he actually NEVER spoke Dari. Please excuse my 'lies'.

Shame on you, and stop being dependent on Zahed. Speak for yourself.

I am not ashamed of speaking the truth and nor am I depending on Zahed because the fact you didn't reply back at him showed he was absolutely right, and he said exactly what I wanted to say as well. As you said yourself: No need to repeat like a parrot.

And I am still waiting for the lecture you got? And I never claimed Baba hated us, that's the image you are getting. I only said Pukhto wasn't popular during his era and nor was he bother whether anyone would speak Pukhto or not: A FACT. If any Pukhtoon leader did care about Pukhto then how come Pukhto became an official language in Afghanistan just few decades ago? Any explanation mister honesty?

[Zahed]

If any Pukhtoon leader did care about Pukhto then how come Pukhto became an official language in Afghanistan just few decades ago?

thank u.

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Did pushto became the official language few decades ago?

[MazloomyarMaseed]

Talibans father is Col Imam, so one can not deny ISI had no role in creating Taliban.

Plus with respect, Pushto has declinded and has been insulted on both sides of the map.

One can not neglect this fact and reality.

[Shayesta]

Did pushto became the official language few decades ago?

Yup, Afghanistan ('Land of the brave Pukhtoons') existed since 1747 but language of Pukhtoons was made an official language 'only' two centuries later.

The only place where Dari is spoken is in the city and that is because it is Tajik populated.

Dude, the actual CITY matters because that's where majority of foreign investment is at! And Dari is not being spoken in the city only because even in places like Qargha, Paghman and etcetera all I heard was Dari with a little of Pukhto in between.

You are so wrong there, Kabul plays no role in Afghan politics presently, Its all about KANDAHAR.

Yup, the political base, Western base, the country's interest; Everything lies in Kandahar. That's why Afghanistan doesn't give a crap no matter how many people die in Kandahar, but just one blast has to happen in Kabul and entire world is shaking. Is what you are referring at my friend?

Have you not been checking the news lately? Kandahar is where everything is at.

Everything as in what? Most soldiers? Most Pukhtoons being killed? Most insult towards women by American soldiers? Most bomb-blasts happening? Helmand in that regard is the same, is that where everything is at as well?

It was a Kandahari who founded Afghanistan. It was a Kandahari who ruled India. It was a Kandahari who ruled Persia, It was a Kandahari who wrote Pata khazana (our most important contribution to Pashto)

Great, what a great history we had! But one question; Now what? Are we still ruling Persia? Are we still ruling India? Nopes, today we can't even rule our own country because at the moment it's 40+ NATO countries who are ruling over us while we can't do a crap about it.

It was a Kandaharis who stood up for Pashto language.

Ehh, who and when? As far as I know Pukhto was only made an official language during Zahir Shah era?

a province with nearly 2million people according to Al Jazeera.

LOL, and funny enough the very same Al Jazeera (when showing a documentary about Afghanistan) also said 'Kabul is only province in Afghanistan which exceeds population of one million people'. And that's exactly what Google sources say as well.

When the Taliban ruled Afghanistan, the Capital was Kabul or Kandahar? answer that one carefully make sure you do your research.

Capital of what? Could you please elaborate on it? If you mean the capital of power and province which Taliban cared for, then why did Ahmad Shah Massoud leave Kabul out of fear for Taliban? Why was Mohammad Najibullah killed by Taliban when he refused to hand over power of Afghanistan a.k.a. the province of Kabul to Taliban? As soon as someone wanted to hold power over Afghanistan, then why was Kabul always the first place they thought of? And last but not the least; Why was ISI so eager to make Kabul an Pakistan-friendly city and not Kandahar? You also answer these ones very carefully.

Even the Americans have admitted its Kandahar that plays the most important role,

Do you even know what Americans are doing to Kandahari's and in what humiliation people of Kandahar live thanks to USA and Taliban? No?

It was Kandaharis who created the Taliban as well, Tsk tsk.

Oh, really? I never knew Kandahari's were behind ISI and Pakistani government! I am shocked! Tsk tsk!

It was Kandahar that was the first Capital,

Was and would have been much better if it had stayed like that. Now stop living in the past.

It was a Kandahari who shifted the Capital, Tsk tsk.

And thanks to that very same Kandahari millions of our Pukhtoons have lost their Pukhto, tsk tsk indeed! If Kandahari's could have made 30% non-Pukhtoons in Kandahar speak Pukhto, then even if Kandahar had millions of residents still they would have successfully made Pukhto most important language in Afghanistan. Why on mother earth did we, Pukhtoons, let go of such an incredible chance!?

Your fabrications based on false history. Our most important form of history is oral history, I can create a website and say Pashtuns are now 10 percent. Someone just like you will be quoting it and using it as a fact.

Even I could do the same which will make you happy and use it as a source; Difference here is that I have to rely on several sources and not just one, dunno about yourself.

However, Dari is used more for ADMINISTRATIVE purposes, because many Pashtuns are too busy in war, defending the nang of our country as compared to writing books in Pashto.

Nang as in what, how would you define 'nang'? Entire world is fighting for 'nang' of their country, does it mean entire world should leave their language?

We have a Joke, We kandaharis are so alienated to Dari, that some of us think Peshawari Pashto is probably Dari.

Are you speaking on behalf of all Kandahari's or those in Kandahar only? Because out of all those Kandahari's I met (and I have met a lot of Kandahari's in West so far) only two families used to speak Pukhto as their first language; That's literally it.

Listen missy, we Pashtuns dont like forcing our culture on others. We are not Arabs.

What do you mean by taking Arabs as examples? That they forced Islam on us? If yes then haven't we done exactly same with Kohistani's and Nurestani's?

If we Pashtuns get in a bad mood, best believe that we can have every Tajik in the country speaking Pashto, Its part of our hospitality to not force our language on others.

It's not about forcing, it's about promoting your own language in your own country. You don't have to force Tajik's to speak Pukhto, but why on earth do so many of our Pukhtoons leave Pukhto for Dari in Kabul especially? Or you don't 'force your own culture on your own people' either? All we have to do is to make sure Pukhto is taught at least three hours a week instead of a ridiculous time-line of only one hour a week!

If I am here responding and putting you in check, dont you think I could have done the same to anyone else?

Then what are you waiting for? I am sure you have read his comment and I can bet that and since you like 'putting people in check', then why not do the same to another person? And last person who can put me on check is a Taliban-supporter so for now, keep your 'check in's' in your pocket because we ain't done yet. Thanks.

Pashto was always an important language, we never had a stable government, All our leaders were sold out,

Then you admit, even the Kandahari's?

except the Taliban.

Hahahahahahaha! No comment!

[Shayesta]

^ And it was about time! My point with Zahir Shah was that at least he bothered to make Pukhto an official language, isn't it? Unfortunately there are enough naive Pukhtoons in Kabul who think creating schools in Pukhto will 'divide Tajik's and Pukhtoons', while they don't realise that we can't be divided even more than this and should stop taking Islam and division as an excuse for keeping our language alive!