Awami National Party

[Afghanistan2010]

ANP , Apostate working for native Pakistan.

They are enemies of Islam, and true Pashtuns.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

for a realistic practical conclusion you will need to consider 3 D simultaneously otherwise your results will be flawed severely.

With such an approach your results would not just be flawed, but incomplete. The single most important demension in this discussion is time.

Rather, what we may say (once the evidence here is assembled) is that its not an issue of 3D, but rather 4D. If you neglect spacetime, you draw the erroneous conclusions that Lavanae Zalmay, Toramana, and a host of others continuously do, which is to assume that the space time continuom's (X,Y,Z,t) axis intiation point, (0,0,0,0 sec) was 9/11/01. Perhaps a closer approximation of the modern era time point zero, when a chain of events would be set into motion that would force central ingelligence to use the word "blowback" in print for the first time, would be:
19 August 1953 or 28 Mordad.

[Badlun]

For Pashtun nationalism I prefer Pashtunkhwa mili Awami party PMAP to ANP. Now ANP is just a political party like any other party in Pakistan with sphere of influence in Khyber Pashtunkhwa. The real representative of Pashtuns in Pakistan is mahmood Khan Achakzai and not Asfandyar.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

For Pashtun nationalism I prefer Pashtunkhwa mili Awami party PMAP to ANP. Now ANP is just a political party like any other party in Pakistan with sphere of influence in Khyber Pashtunkhwa. The real representative of Pashtuns in Pakistan is mahmood Khan Achakzai and not Asfandyar.

A good thought and one we ought to expand on. If you can find a neutral valid source that deals with the history of PMAP as a spin off party and gives the history of Abdus Samad and his son, it would contribute to the discussion. I prefer to stay away from pieces in the NY Times and other places that are simply doing an expose on how ANP or PMAP could be a viable American partner. I would strongly prefer historical sources/text references, maybe journal articles. If a well read author did write an in depth expose in some big daily paper that is acceptable.

[Badlun]

i am sorry that at the moment I dont have time to present a well written write up on PMAP but for US or the West PMAP or even ANP is a better option than Taliban or religious parties because the more you are Pashtun nationalist the less you are religious bigot and violent extremist. Pashtunwali is an antidote for religious extremism and Pashtun nationalism panacea for terrorism and fundamentalism

[ScimitarXEdge]

but most of Pashtunwali has many tactics and practices which are more violent than even some extremists and religious bigots use. How can that be a solution?

[emkhan]

ANP and MQM both are secular and nationalist parties. They have killed more people only in karachi than taliban have done in all over the country. Now who is more violent religious or secular nationalist. Bhutto was a secular, do you have how many he killed in his time ?
and there are so many other examples.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

A fascinating superb paper that finally gave me a viewpoint into what the marxists are so upset about.

http://www.khyber.org/publications/p...ationalism.pdf

Go to page 10:
There are multiple facets of intrigue that the Britishers utilized in the NWFP to support the large Khans who they paid to exert control on their behalf and subvert Ghaffar Khan. The British utilized an approach in which they claimed that Khudai Khidmatgar and various supporters were in pursuit of Hindu dominance. For this, the Mullah class was given land and also brought into play.

British official Cunningham actually mapped out a plan in which Big Khans communicated with Mullahs to continuously preach against the Congress Party and any Muslim involvement (e.g. Ghaffar Khan) as serving revolutionary hindu interests. THis is in an actual policy note from Cunningham.

The interesting thing about the outcomes though, is that when you look into which party the descendents of these subversive large Khans wound up in... you will see the following:

http://www.pakistanherald.com/newprofile.aspx?hofid=302

Large Landowner Khan Muhammad Akbar Khan's son is actually... wait for it... wait for it... an ANP iite.

The nawab of Tank appears to have lost of his prestige with Tank's downfall.

http://sardargillani.freeservers.com/custom.html


Most damningly, look at page 12 of the paper

http://www.khyber.org/publications/p...ationalism.pdf

I think this should answer Admin Khan's question of what KP Nationalism means in terms of benefits for both lar and bar Pashtuns, and particularly, Afghanistan's Pashtun population. Direct quote reference are given:

"Pashtun nationalists demanded an independent state because they could see that in future Pakistan, they would be dominated by the Panjabies, whereas in case of becoming part of Afghanistan they had to give up the politics of Pashtun nationalism because of Afghanistan was already ruled by Pakhtuns. Thus a new identity was imagined and constructed which shared a past with Afghanistan, but did not want a future with it. Afghanistan's support for the idea of a new state was acceptable, but not Afghanistan itself (Anwar 1988 page 31). Moreover, Ghaffar Khan, who continously evoked the past glory of the Pakhtun nation, contemptuously said about Afghans (Pakhtuns): 'We do not want to be one with those naked people (Anwar 1988 page 31)' Thus the anti colonial nationalist made the colonial durand line that divided pakhtuns the basis of his brand of pakhtun nationalism."

Source of Ghaffar Khan's quote:
Raja Anwar's The Tragedy of Afghanistan: A first hand account.
http://books.google.com/books?id=-ut...itesec=reviews

The author goes on to note the irony of the Jalalabad burial in that he ended up being buried and taken in by those same naked people.

It appears that we clinched and hit the home run regarding Ghaffar Khan and whether his work was of any utility or whether it will be of any utility to lar and bar benefits or unity. The resounding answer, per his own words, is No.

Next we will analyze Ghani Khan.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

"Pashtun nationalists demanded an independent state because they could see that in future Pakistan, they would be dominated by the Panjabies, whereas in case of becoming part of Afghanistan they had to give up the politics of Pashtun nationalism because of Afghanistan was already ruled by Pakhtuns. Thus a new identity was imagined and constructed which shared a past with Afghanistan, but did not want a future with it. Afghanistan's support for the idea of a new state was acceptable, but not Afghanistan itself (Anwar 1988 page 31). Moreover, Ghaffar Khan, who continously evoked the past glory of the Pakhtun nation, contemptuously said about Afghans (Pakhtuns): 'We do not want to be one with those naked people (Anwar 1988 page 31)' Thus the anti colonial nationalist made the colonial durand line that divided pakhtuns the basis of his brand of pakhtun nationalism."

Source of Ghaffar Khan's quote:
Raja Anwar's The Tragedy of Afghanistan: A first hand account.
<A href="http://books.google.com/books?id=-uttAAAAMAAJ&sitesec=reviews" target=_blank>http://books.google.com/books?id=-ut...itesec=reviews

[gadoonwal]

A short itroduction to today,s ANP.

anp is owned by azam khan hoti an ex captain of pak army.
Azm khan hoti is the close relative of asfandyar wali khan.
Azam is the right hand of pakistani establishment and ISI.
His son haider hoti is the CM of pashtunkhwa.
Azam khan hoti has family relation with nawaz sharif and enjoy great freindship.
The entire leadership of awami national party is on the payroll of ,,isi,,
They are the most patriotic pakistanis and the enemy of pashtun nationalism.
wali khan was the first leader from west pakistan asked great mujeaburahman of bingal to stay with pakistan.
He also supported the one unit.
Once wali khan said if pakistan break we will still fly pakistani flag in peshawar.
They fully support the farther division of pashtun land into pieces.
During their rule in province many afghans were abused and forced by police to go back to afghanistan.
ANP is like canser for pashtuns.
The pakistani establishment know how to make one curropt and this is what happen after the death of bacha khan when wali khan shake hand with nawaz sharif.
The wali family men are all educated from itchisen collage lahore sharif (the qibla of pashtun leadership).
The Cm Hoti was appointed by punjabi establishment cus his father ,s close links with ,,isi,,.
AZAM HOTI is the head of ISI in pashtunkhwa.His network gose accross the border to afghanistan where he is making more friends for isi and pakistan.
The ANP also hate mahmood khan achakzai for his stand on the unity of pashtuns.

Mahmood khan achakzai is the true and right leader of pashtuns.
Asfandyar is begerat as much as sherpao,fazlu,maqam and other punjabi slaves.
I have send a letter to the office of interior ministry of afghanistan to ban ANP leaders from enetering to the holy land of afghans and never trust these punjabi talisuts/dalals.They hate afghanistan and afghan unity.

If one wants to make fool of himself then they should go for punjabwali.
iF PASHTUN RISE TODAY AGAINST PUNJAB THESE TALISUTS/ANP WALAS WILL BRING THEIR HINDO IDEALOGY OF NON-VIOLENT TO STOP THEM AND KEEP PUNJABISTAN STRONG AND UNITED.
Pashtuns voted for them cus many of us do,nt know the true of face punjabwali.
Now they are fully exposed like mullas and pml etc.

Punjabwali and his nephew bought many businesses in malaysia and dubia.
They have signed the deal with cia and isi to kill pashtuns in swat etc.
pashtuns will become more pakipied if follow these punjabi nawkars.


1-ANP walas are patriotic pakis when enter paki parlaiment and get house in islam abad where their families enjoy up on punjabi ,,khairat,,.
2-to enjoy up on hindo hospitalities in india there they calling gaandi jee ,,bapo jee and followers of him.

3-to make fool of pashtuns just before election they become pashtuns for few months to get into punjabi paradise (islam abad).Once they get there then they become patriotic pakis.
4-to make fool of afghans and enjoy on their hospitalities and money they sing the song of lar o bar afghans unity with fake smile on their face.


ANP leader shown his true colour when he run away to punjab in pak army helicopter after a small explosion in his hujra.
He brought shame for the entire pashtun nation and insulted the pashtun way of life.
Many nationalists pashtuns of anp no longer support ,,anp,,.

The only way to free pashtuns from punjabi slavery is ,,revolution ,,against the british state of punjabistan.

If pashtun follow leader like karzai,mulayans,anp,,sherpawans and other punjabi talisuts leaders of pashtuns then write this in red,,,,,that afghanistan will become province of punjabistan and pashtunistan will never be free,,,,whether you like it or not,,,,
this is their plan.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Gadoonwal, best greetings to You!
May I reask my question to You?
I got a bit of confused!
It seems like every region of Pakistan tries to divide somehow?!
Won't that bring those regions also in conflict between themselves as the nations are not distributed strictl<y on regional borders?
Hopefully You understood my question, if not I try to exlain it better dear brother.

[Soldat_Amir]

ANP and MQM both are secular and nationalist parties.

The Taliban follow Islamic Nationalism and their targets are othe Muslims.

They have killed more people only in karachi than taliban have done in all over the country.

Non-sense. Taliban have killed more Pashtuns than Nato forces put together. As a matter of fact, Taliban run Karachi's drug trade and extort fellow Pashtuns daily to feed their terrorism activities. You have no evidence of what your saying, but there is a lot of evidence of Taliban blowing up civilian infrastructure, killing innocent people and attacking hospitals,schools etc, Which MQM and ANP have not done. You ever seen a ANP and MQM politican open up a sucide bombers camp in Karachi?

Now who is more violent religious or secular nationalist. Bhutto was a secular, do you have how many he killed in his time ?
and there are so many other examples.

Anyone can be violent regardless of their views, but the religionous parties inspire violence, take the example of Asia bibi, a innocent Christian Pakistan accused of insulting Mohammad, a politican was killed for saying "kala qaqoon", did Secularists protest on the streets to have her killed, did the secularists give a bounty of 100.000 rupees to have her shot dead? what about the Shia and Sunni conflict, how many lives has that taken, or what about Zia ul haq? Go on Emkhan, educate us on the conflict between Sunni and Shia? go on, what about DI Khan, whereby a Taliban suicide bomber teenager attacked the civil hospital in DI Khan?

Religinous bigotry in Pakistan has cost more lives than what Emkhan claims against the Secularists. Emkhan, what about the pertition of India, how many sikhs and hindus were killed and expelled from their native lands due to Religion? What about the 3000 innocent Americans killed on 9/11 or 7/7? Religion played a vital role in their causes, do you think a secularist would do that? Plus bhutto was not a secularist by heart, he/she both submitted to the role of the Militant Mullah, Pakistan will always be the backward crap hole due to the Militant Mullah, both supported Islamists in Afghanistan during their term in power.

Exactly....You wouldnt know because you dont want to know.

There is no such thing as a Pakistani Secularist! every Pakistan has this Pro Jamiet aspect to their views in regards to being Pro Pak. Jinnah being a Non Muslim himself, brought his nation into misery due to this confusion of identity.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The Taliban follow Islamic Nationalism and their targets are othe Muslims.



Non-sense. Taliban have killed more Pashtuns than Nato forces put together. As a matter of fact, Taliban run Karachi's drug trade and extort fellow Pashtuns daily to feed their terrorism activities. You have no evidence of what your saying, but there is a lot of evidence of Taliban blowing up civilian infrastructure, killing innocent people and attacking hospitals,schools etc, Which MQM and ANP have not done. You ever seen a ANP and MQM politican open up a sucide bombers camp in Karachi?




Anyone can be violent regardless of their views, but the religionous parties inspire violence, take the example of Asia bibi, a innocent Christian Pakistan accused of insulting Mohammad, a politican was killed for saying "kala qaqoon", did Secularists protest on the streets to have her killed, did the secularists give a bounty of 100.000 rupees to have her shot dead? what about the Shia and Sunni conflict, how many lives has that taken, or what about Zia ul haq? Go on Emkhan, educate us on the conflict between Sunni and Shia? go on, what about DI Khan, whereby a Taliban suicide bomber teenager attacked the civil hospital in DI Khan?

Religinous bigotry in Pakistan has cost more lives than what Emkhan claims against the Secularists. Emkhan, what about the pertition of India, how many sikhs and hindus were killed and expelled from their native lands due to Religion? What about the 3000 innocent Americans killed on 9/11 or 7/7? Religion played a vital role in their causes, do you think a secularist would do that? Plus bhutto was not a secularist by heart, he/she both submitted to the role of the Militant Mullah, Pakistan will always be the backward crap hole due to the Militant Mullah, both supported Islamists in Afghanistan during their term in power.

Exactly....You wouldnt know because you dont want to know.

There is no such thing as a Pakistani Secularist! every Pakistan has this Pro Jamiet aspect to their views in regards to being Pro Pak. Jinnah being a Non Muslim himself, brought his nation into misery due to this confusion of identity.

Lol, anyone can play this game you joke of a bloke as they say in your neck of the woods. Stalin and your heroes initiated a series of actions around the world that resulted in the deaths of millions beyond compare.

Watch, I'll teach you how a reference works. Otherwise its just you and Emkhan stating things and the rest of us having to watch the backforth with you generating more conspiracy action fiction in the process:

Look at where the antitheists (you) fall into the fray of things you thalidomide baby.

Here is an supposed Jordanian Islamist rebuttal to you with data included:
http://www.rissc.jo/docs/bodycount_final.pdf

Here is the center's philosophy, but regardless of the affilation, the author has very strong academic credentials, unlike Miss ANDERSEN.

http://www.aalalbayt.org/en/index.html

and a discussion about the rebuttal by a Yale Divinity School Professor that discusses how, even if the numbers are inaccurate and some numbers added to the Muslim slaughters by including the the numbers from the Ottoman march across Eurasia, it doesnt do much to redeem the Western Christian world.

http://www.yale.edu/faith/ne/documen...ounts.Volf.pdf

I would be afraid Maseed, because your enemies here, show resilience:

"the results: Our findings show that, using the entire data set for the period 0-2008, politically and religiously motivated violence has cost between 449.38 million and 708.61 million lives. The Christian civilization’s share of this is the largest with between 119.32 million and 236.56 million victims (median 177.94 million). In second place is the Antitheist civilization which has contributed with a median figure of 125.29 million deaths. The Sinic civilization is third with 107.92 million deaths (median). Fourth is the Buddhist civilization with ca. 87.95 million deaths. Fifth is the Primal-Indigenous civilization with 45.56 million deaths. Sixth is the Islamic civilization with 31.94 million deaths. Finally, seventh and last, is the Indic civilization with just under 2.39 million deaths.

The author Naveed Sheikh, sounds more like a secularist than an Islamist, in case you reach for that mind numbing argument:

http://www.keele.ac.uk/media/keeleun...iew%202007.pdf

His credentials seem impeccable, compared to yours:

http://www.keele.ac.uk/spire/staff/sheikh/

and to Farhat Taj ANDERSENS.

[BarakzaiAbdali]

The Taliban follow Islamic Nationalism and their targets are othe Muslims.



Non-sense. Taliban have killed more Pashtuns than Nato forces put together. As a matter of fact, Taliban run Karachi's drug trade and extort fellow Pashtuns daily to feed their terrorism activities. You have no evidence of what your saying, but there is a lot of evidence of Taliban blowing up civilian infrastructure, killing innocent people and attacking hospitals,schools etc, Which MQM and ANP have not done. You ever seen a ANP and MQM politican open up a sucide bombers camp in Karachi?




Anyone can be violent regardless of their views, but the religionous parties inspire violence, take the example of Asia bibi, a innocent Christian Pakistan accused of insulting Mohammad, a politican was killed for saying "kala qaqoon", did Secularists protest on the streets to have her killed, did the secularists give a bounty of 100.000 rupees to have her shot dead? what about the Shia and Sunni conflict, how many lives has that taken, or what about Zia ul haq? Go on Emkhan, educate us on the conflict between Sunni and Shia? go on, what about DI Khan, whereby a Taliban suicide bomber teenager attacked the civil hospital in DI Khan?

Religinous bigotry in Pakistan has cost more lives than what Emkhan claims against the Secularists. Emkhan, what about the pertition of India, how many sikhs and hindus were killed and expelled from their native lands due to Religion? What about the 3000 innocent Americans killed on 9/11 or 7/7? Religion played a vital role in their causes, do you think a secularist would do that? Plus bhutto was not a secularist by heart, he/she both submitted to the role of the Militant Mullah, Pakistan will always be the backward crap hole due to the Militant Mullah, both supported Islamists in Afghanistan during their term in power.

Exactly....You wouldnt know because you dont want to know.

There is no such thing as a Pakistani Secularist! every Pakistan has this Pro Jamiet aspect to their views in regards to being Pro Pak. Jinnah being a Non Muslim himself, brought his nation into misery due to this confusion of identity.

Back to the topic at hand though,

deal with the quote:

"Pashtun nationalists demanded an independent state because they could see that in future Pakistan, they would be dominated by the Panjabies, whereas in case of becoming part of Afghanistan they had to give up the politics of Pashtun nationalism because of Afghanistan was already ruled by Pakhtuns. Thus a new identity was imagined and constructed which shared a past with Afghanistan, but did not want a future with it. Afghanistan's support for the idea of a new state was acceptable, but not Afghanistan itself (Anwar 1988 page 31). Moreover, Ghaffar Khan, who continously evoked the past glory of the Pakhtun nation, contemptuously said about Afghans (Pakhtuns): 'We do not want to be one with those naked people (Anwar 1988 page 31)' Thus the anti colonial nationalist made the colonial durand line that divided pakhtuns the basis of his brand of pakhtun nationalism."

Source of Ghaffar Khan's quote:
Raja Anwar's The Tragedy of Afghanistan: A first hand account.
<A href="http://books.google.com/books?id=-uttAAAAMAAJ&sitesec=reviews" target=_blank>http://books.google.com/books?id=-ut...itesec=reviews

[graveyardofempires]

this is my view on ANP adn PMAP

i like many in ANP,and i think ANP so called leaders are only together for the sake of keeping pashtuns together.

I admire Shahi Sayed of ANP and Mahmud Achakzai are a couple of great leaders even though we dont hear anything from them regarding hot issues such as drone attacks ,invasion of Afghanistan and invasion of pukhtunkhwa.

i attended a jirga where there was also an ANP representative and shed light on some issues,and i dont think he admires gandhi ,he was actually saying that gandhi asked the british to devide Pashtun into three and the 3rd part being stuck in india otherwise these people will tak eover india again.

on the phone in that meeting we got to hear a guy from PPP sherpao and to be honest i didnt expect PPP sherpao to be pro Lar Aw Bar Afghan unity.

so overall people in ANP and Pmap are good but their leaders are passive and dotn have clear vision.

for example : if bacha khan was alive today,he would have fought the paki establishment.