Drones, Civilian Deaths and The New York Times

[sanman]

How could you say such a thing towards another muslim? You shouldn't take this forum personally. When you take things personally, you stop being objective..
toba

So if he'd been non-Muslim, presumably it would have been okay by you.

Just please don't declare Taliban to be Islamic, otherwise then I don't know where your objectivity is.

[JAMALUDEEN]

So if he'd been non-Muslim, presumably it would have been okay by you.

.

this is what i said.

"How could you say such a thing towards another muslim? You shouldn't take this forum personally. When you take things personally, you stop being objective..
toba"

stop twisting things around. I was referring to alchemist. Where did i say, if he'd been non-Muslim, presumably it would have been okay....

Just please don't declare Taliban to be Islamic, otherwise then I don't know where your objectivity is

Show me proof that they are not muslims...show me proof that you are a muslim? can you prove to us that you are a muslim?

[sanman]

Why? What does it matter?
After all...

[JAMALUDEEN]

Why? What does it matter?
After all...

you made the accusations...so back them up with proof..otherwise, it just becomes your opinion..

[sanman]

On the contrary, you're the one being accusatory.
But as we all know

[JAMALUDEEN]

On the contrary, you're the one being accusatory.
But as we all know

come on sanman, you made the accusations.. you called them unislamic..

show us your proof?
Show us your ethical stance on this matter? then we can discuss and debate this.

[sanman]

Taliban are unprincipled, unethical, ultraviolent ISI stooges.
What else needs to be said, or proven? It's quite obvious what they are, and they themselves can't be bothered to hide it.

They are the henchmen for a desperate out-of-control rogue state.
But we all know what rogues want

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

This was a thread about NATO's casual killing of Afghans...but this delusional self righteous self satisfied arrogant douchbag has to start an anti taliban propaganda campaign to distract us from the OP.

He is actually supporting American aggression because he is a coward who thinks he got flagged by the CIA or the MIB (men in black) which is why he has changed his tune recently.

How about a little restraint?

Casual killing of Afghans? It is unfortunate that these drones have killed 338 civilians but, at the same time, more than 2,300 militants have been killed, many of whom are Uzbeks, Arabs, Punjabis and others. These militants have themselves killed thousands of Afghan tribesmen, including 1500 tribal leaders from Bajaur to South Waziristan. While all this goes on, Pakistan refuses to go into North Waziristan to prove to the world that "there are no terrorists there and everyone being killed is an innocent civilian".

It's a big mess but the fewer foreign terrorists there are, the better it will be for us because it will no longer give NATO an excuse to come to our homeland again.

Isn't that what they always turn it into wror, i think if they could , they would blame everything on the taliban like world war 1,2 the global warming every crime that exists.

Which world are you living in, khoray? Global warming is a big hoax created by atheist scientists to push forward their atheistic agenda. Don't believe me? Ask Alchemist.

We blame the Taliban for turning Afghanistan into a stone-age civilization where women were locked away in homes and all freedoms were stifled, including the freedom to go on the internet and make a post on an open forum, which is a right you are enjoying right now in the West but it is something the Taliban would have flogged you for.

We also blame Al-Qaeda for continuously using our soil to carry out the attacks on the American embassies in Africa, the attacks on the USS Cole, the attacks on 9/11 and many other such operations. And when the US came for revenge, they hid themselves with the ISI in Abbottabad, Karachi, Islamabad and Lahore while our Afghan people were being torn to shreds by vengeful American pilots.

And I would be the biggest fool in the world if I were to be on the side of these Al-Qaeda terrorists again who brought all this menace to my homeland and when the time came to fight, they went crying back into the laps of their Punjabi generals and left my people to die.

The US made a mistake by nurturing Al-Qaeda against the Soviet Union and then leaving men like them to rule over us. Now the US is making amends for its mistakes by taking these thugs out. The US is anything but an angel but I won't stop it when its killing my enemies.

And remember: WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Taliban are unprincipled, unethical, ultraviolent ISI stooges.
What else needs to be said, or proven? It's quite obvious what they are, and they themselves can't be bothered to hide it.

They are the henchmen for a desperate out-of-control rogue state.
But we all know what rogues want

this is just your opinion, otherwise you would have provided evidence. You are no better than a conspiracy theorist yourself now.

[JAMALUDEEN]

[sanman]

this is just your opinion, otherwise you would have provided evidence. You are no better than a conspiracy theorist yourself now.

What evidence do you need? All you seem to know how to do is to mirror people. What will convince you? IMHO, not only do you know what ISI is doing, but you want them to do it. Why? Are your lips glued to Kayani's backside? Do you not understand the damage that is being done to Pashtuns and to Pashtun culture, through this ugly Taliban movement?

What is to like about Taliban? Please tell me. Do you like people who blow up women's schools? Do you like warlords like Haqqanis? Look at that guy - he looks like a hairy ape. He's guerrilla who looks like a gorilla - maybe ISI forgot to tell him the difference.

[JAMALUDEEN]

What evidence do you need? All you seem to know how to do is to mirror people. What will convince you? IMHO, not only do you know what ISI is doing, but you want them to do it. Why? Are your lips glued to Kayani's backside? Do you not understand the damage that is being done to Pashtuns and to Pashtun culture, through this ugly Taliban movement?

What is to like about Taliban? Please tell me. Do you like people who blow up women's schools? Do you like warlords like Haqqanis? Look at that guy - he looks like a hairy ape. He's guerrilla who looks like a gorilla - maybe ISI forgot to tell him the difference.

What will convince me is solid evidence, not just some emotional rant that serves no purpose. Nothing of what you are saying is factual, it is just merely your opinion. You were not "everywhere" to have witnessed everything and you talk as if you were there at all times witnessing and writing the whole thing into a book. So you must have gotten this information from somewhere, therefore you should reference your work, otherwise it is no better than another fictional jargon and a conspiracy theory. Atleast conspiracy theorists are not intellectually dishonest and do not steal others ideas.

Get it?

[ScimitarXEdge]

How could you say such a thing towards another muslim? You shouldn't take this forum personally. When you take things personally, you stop being objective..
toba

because those so called "Other Muslims" are enabling Muslims to be killed.
I don't take it personally, this person is against everything Islam values i.e. Justice

[ScimitarXEdge]

So i am in denial because i ask for evidence, then i guess judges and courts are all in denial when they ask of hard evidence.

Also, you clearly mentioned that both sides use propaganda and are not legit, (I didn't say this) then how can they be credible if they are not legit? You are contradicting yourself by posting these videos. You bash the taliban using western and indian sources as evidence, then you bash the west using the taliban sources, and other sources..yet you don't find any sides legit and know that they use propaganda.

doesn't make sense.. you must find atleast one side legit enough to spread their propaganda..

No you're in denial because you ignore the evidence, or when evidence is presented to you, you make excuses

I said both sides use propaganda, this doesn't make everything automatically propaganda, do you understand the difference? You clearly invented your own conclusion, which are your own words.

In courts of Law confessions count as hard evidence, Taliban members have confessed their relationship with the ISI, and yet you still deny it.

This shows hard evidence isn't what you're looking for.

[JAMALUDEEN]

No you're in denial because you ignore the evidence, or when evidence is presented to you, you make excuses

I said both sides use propaganda, this doesn't make everything automatically propaganda, do you understand the difference? You clearly invented your own conclusion, which are your own words.

You said both sides use propaganda and you said both sides are not legit. So when they are not legit, how can their reports be legit? How can their news be legit? How can their propaganda be legit?

get it?

In courts of Law confessions count as hard evidence, Taliban members have confessed their relationship with the ISI, and yet you still deny it.

This shows hard evidence isn't what you're looking for.

There is a big difference between being interviewed and making confessions. Most of these guys who have been interviewed are just simple foot soldiers and junior commanders who are not really the decision makers. So If they have not witnessed anything, then how can anything that they say be reliable? Hearsay evidence is not admissible in court, just so you know.