Drones, Civilian Deaths and The New York Times

[Shayesta]

Funny how those members who request non-Muslims to be banned for not being a Muslim don't know how to respect non-Muslims themselves. Next offensive post/insulting post is a warning. Manena.

[ScimitarXEdge]

don't you mean don't know how to respect Muslims themselves?

[ScimitarXEdge]

Toramana the murder of innocent people is never an answer to the murder of innocent people


you're no better than Alchemist

[JAMALUDEEN]

For your kind information, most of South Waziristan has fled and live in tents/camps in Tank and DI Khan in Pakhtunkhwa..

and for that i have your word for it.... which is sufficient evidence (sarcasm).

Hope fully I will visit, once the vermin, ISI stooges and Alqueda Arabs with their Afghan traitors are blown away into dust.

You are too scared to do something about it yourself? What happened to pashtunwali? Don't you always scream .. i am pashtun this and i am pashtun that.. and yet you allow others to fight your battle

I dare you to go to Afghanistan with your atheists brothers and form an anti-terrorist.. anti-taliban group..and see how long you will last

see how much support you will get.. What you fail to understand is that the taliban and the people of afghanistan have a religious connection. You will never get as much support my friend not even in your wildest dreams.. you can sit there and torture your fingers all you want...

The people of Afghanistan would rather a trust a muslim..pakistani.. than an atheist..kafir..

I hope that makes sense if it doesnt, then why dont you transfer all the Arab terrorists to your house in America/Canada, and let a drone pay you a visit

I can say the same about you.. Why don't you call and transfer all your atheists brothers to the UK and leave the innocent poor people of Afghanistan alone?

I think, you come here with an agenda to divide Afghans. You are a spy..

Who do you work for? come clean..mate

[JAMALUDEEN]

Toramana the murder of innocent people is never an answer to the murder of innocent people


you're no better than Alchemist

That is true, but you can also not deny the possibility of the US demonizing the taliban through propaganda.. we have seen it happening to other nations.. it is the information warfare.. America has a huge advantage over everyone else.. and they easily brainwash people like Soldat Amir and turn them into spies against our own people.

[ScimitarXEdge]

if we use that logic; then can it be said the Taliban are demonizing America?

let's think logically; if we followed your argument, then the law of infinite regression would make such propagandizing apply to the Taliban as well. If you say that's NOT possible, you're Special Pleading which is a logical fallacy

point being we can't invent elaborate conspiracies; we have to use what information we can corroborate

[JAMALUDEEN]

if we use that logic; then can it be said the Taliban are demonizing America?

The taliban do not have to spread propaganda... the American presence in Afghanistan is propaganda for the taliban in itself. So to clarify it more, If the western forces leave Afghanistan for good, they would stop demonzing themselves.

[JAMALUDEEN]

and doesn't it make you a conspiracy theorist to suggest that the taliban are spreading propaganda?

Where is your proof for this?

[ScimitarXEdge]

The taliban do not have to spread propaganda... the American presence in Afghanistan is propaganda for the taliban in itself. So to clarify it more, If the western forces leave Afghanistan for good, they would stop demonzing themselves.

see once again, faulty premise, then it could be argued the Taliban presence is propaganda for the Americans itself.

see that's the problem with Pro-Taliban arguments, they're too circular or their premises are not sound.

No it doesn't make me a conspiracy theorist, because I'm using YOUR LOGIC against you. I'm showing you that this line of reasoning is meritless.


Propaganda happens from both sides obviously, this is a fact. The problem is, neither side are legit

siding with the Taliban, just because it has seemingly "Afghan Faces" but with a Pakistani Hand puppeteering them is no different than having a Government with seemingly "Afghan Faces" with a NATO/U.S. hand puppeteering them, they originate from the same place.

[JAMALUDEEN]

see once again, faulty premise, then it could be argued the Taliban presence is propaganda for the Americans itself.

see that's the problem with Pro-Taliban arguments, they're too circular or their premises are not sound.


Agreed.

Propaganda happens from both sides obviously, this is a fact. The problem is, neither side are legit

Well, the same can be said about you. Aren't you spreading your own propaganda when you oppose the taliban or the US? How does this make your side legit?


siding with the Taliban, just because it has seemingly "Afghan Faces" but with a Pakistani Hand puppeteering them is no different than having a Government with seemingly "Afghan Faces" with a NATO/U.S. hand puppeteering them, they originate from the same place.

I do not side with any, but there is no solid proof whether Pakistan is behind all the taliban. You should back it up with proof and stop making conspiracy theories. There is also no proof that the afghan government are puppets to America...where is your proof? You shouldn't speculate.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Well, the same can be said about you. Aren't you spreading your own propaganda when you oppose the taliban or the US? How does this make your side legit?

But I'm just one person, so this is absurd.

I do not side with any, but there is no solid proof whether Pakistan is behind all the taliban. You should back it up with proof and stop making conspiracy theories. There is also no proof that the afghan government are puppets to America...where is your proof? You shouldn't speculate.

From the Horse's Mouth


ISI provides funding and sanctuary to Afghan Taliban: report

ISI provides funding and sanctuary to Afghan Taliban: report
London, Jun 13 (PTI)

Pakistan's ISI provides funding, training and sanctuary to Taliban in Afghanistan on a scale much larger than previously thought, a report claims and suggests that the spy agency may be backing the insurgents to undermine Indian influence in the war-torn country.

The report by the London School of Economics (LSE), based on interviews with nine Taliban commanders in Afghanistan between February and May this year, says the support for the Afghan Taliban was "official ISI policy".

"Although the Taliban has a strong endogenous impetus, according to Taliban commanders the ISI orchestrates, sustains and strongly influences the movement," Matt Waldman, author of the report who is also a fellow at Harvard University, says.

we need to stop thinking afghans are some impenetrable glorious race of people; we're not, we're susceptible to being conquered and controlled just like anyone else

[ScimitarXEdge]

As for Afghan Government being a puppet Government, that's evident by the fact they were installed by NATO/U.S.

[JAMALUDEEN]

But I'm just one person, so this is absurd.
From the Horse's Mouth


ISI provides funding and sanctuary to Afghan Taliban: report


An indian source? So it is indian propaganda.. just as you said it yourself.


Propaganda happens from both sides obviously, this is a fact. The problem is, neither side are legit

I don't think you will ever be able to prove it.


we need to stop thinking afghans are some impenetrable glorious race of people; we're not, we're susceptible to being conquered and controlled just like anyone else

That is true.

[ScimitarXEdge]

No I didn't, my argument is that your claim that everything is merely propaganda is absurd.

Nice try...I'm using YOUR argument AGAINST you. It doesn't mean I endorse your argument. I hope that clarifies your confusion.

The paper shows that Taliban members themselves confess to the ISI involvement. Anyhow.

If that's not good enough, then it's simply a case of denial, not lack of evidence

[JAMALUDEEN]

No I didn't, my argument is that your claim that everything is merely propaganda is absurd.

Nice try...I'm using YOUR argument AGAINST you. It doesn't mean I endorse your argument. I hope that clarifies your confusion.

The paper shows that Taliban members themselves confess to the ISI involvement. Anyhow.

If that's not good enough, then it's simply a case of denial, not lack of evidence

hmmm this is not hard evidence... the guy just spoke and interviewed a few taliban members..some former senior and junior commanders... who are not even identified to begin with .. does it identify any of them ?if there were hard evidence where documents were involved and witness accounts which can then be verified then i'd say that this is a top notch report, until then... it is just another fail propaganda report.


It's funny because the taliban usually tend to be very aggressive towards the west, and yet they would happily let them selves being interviewed by a journalist who works for bbc and tell them about all their plans, and where they receive their fundings..


again, you said that both the US and taliban use propaganda and both are not legit.. so please avoid any of your western sources...since you have already marked them as not legit.