Drones, Civilian Deaths and The New York Times

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

Alchemist wrora, I personally know many people from Waziristan, Khyber and Bajaur and they are almost all supportive of the drone attacks there.

The real tyranny comes not from these drone attacks but from the people they kill - ever since 2001, these so-called "Mujahideen" (Uzbeks, Pashtuns, Chechans, Arabs, Tajiks, Punjabis, Kashmiris) have virtually taken over FATA and have made life hell for the local residents. They commandeer everything from cars to entire streets and any local tribesman who dares to speak out against them is openly executed. More than 1,500 tribal elders from Waziristan and FATA have been target-killed by these foreign militants so as to create a power vacuum, which they would fill in themselves. Until only two years ago, they even took away our (yes, my own family's) harvested crops and all the Marwat khanan had to virtually surrender everything over to them. These militants also take away people's sons and whoever resists is killed. Moreover, many of these militant outfits have support from the ISI and hence the mutual peace between most of these groups and Pakistan.

According to the principles of melmastiya, the persons seeking refuge must first disarm. These 'refugees' have not only refused to disarm but have, with the Pakistani state's support, become the brutal and merciless rulers of these tribesmen. The locals want them out.

The question of civilian casualties cannot be answered because the Pakistani military has ensured that all news out of FATA comes out only through the ISPR (the army's public-relations division). However, according to many locals, almost all the casualties of drone strikes are militant commanders, most of whom are Al-Qaeda or other foreign fighters. Drones fire small missiles and are very precise.

Ask any Maseed or Wazir what they think of these groups and they'll all say that these drones are their saviors.

[Al Hanif]

This quetion is almost eternal, and following in many themes dear peeople!
And it will never come to a solution - You can ask and reask yourself those questions.
Untill people will not learn to fight echother like a man every side will kill civilians.
I would say it is both almost very unbrave(I don'T know the right english word, hope you understand), to bomb somebody with a joystick fearing direct contact with your enemy and to kill yourself in the difficult situation of your nation avoiding the direct contact.
nor of both is fighting, both is killing , and both is unaimd killing as no explosion, sould it be of an airbombing or of a siucide bomber can ever aim to kill only the enemy.
After those actions every talk about spirituality and faith and human rights and patriotism looses its sense.
All this methods are cruel and weak - and weakness will never lead to strong spirit and something positive. And untill mankind won't find a way to fight like a man - face to face and the best even without weapons but with the body - all will go on.
To use a bomb or a kalashnikov or a rocket You needn't be a fighter, you needen'T nor spirit, nor moral, you need only your finger to push the pulsants of your stingger, missile, kalashnikov or bomb - people with weak spirit even if they win technically a war will never bring peace, as their hard is full of fear and weakness.

You say that because you're not on the battlefield. And because you are not being pragmatic. And because you reject revelations. Most muslim Turks are against suicide bombing and most Palestinians muslims are for suicide bombing. Why is this ? Is it because some are brave and others unbrave ? No, it's because Turks did not suffer from 60 years of continual oppression. If you were a Palestinian or in the position of Afghan fighters, you would be as cruel as Japaneses or Israelis because you're godless.

Talibans are not unbrave, they are extremely brave. They are fighting with outdated weapons, they are outnumbered (12 ANA + NATO soldiers vs 1 Taliban), they are fighting against the most powerful coalition in the world provided by the best technologial weapons. Unlike Americans, they don't have fighter aircrafts, they can't use airstrikes and bomb american bases or american cities killing innocents. They fast during the holy month of Ramadan from dawn to sunset. They are defending their country from invaders. They want to bring back Allah SWT sovereignty on muslim soil by replacing man-made laws and implementing Sharia. They did not came to America and killed millions of innocents so Americans will change their way of life and stop Gay Prides, swinger clubs and pornography. Talibans are the brave lions of Islam. May Allah SWT grant them vitory over the kuffars, munafiqs and worshippers of idols. Ameen.

[Al Hanif]

Alchemist wrora, I personally know many people from Waziristan, Khyber and Bajaur and they are almost all supportive of the drone attacks there.

If some locals are supportive of Kuffar attacks on Muslims, then they are apostates and need to be killed. I hope it's true that their life was made hell and I hope it will remain like this or that it will get worse for them. Plus what you call "hell" is nothing compared to what awaits them in the hereafter.

[graveyardofempires]

so called stories about locals supporting drone attacks are fabricated by desperate people,especially the anti muslim camp.

no ghairati pashtun will support attacks on their soil.

[Tjanaparh]

Dear Al Hanif - first of all, stop your accusings without knowing a person please. You are not in the right to call somebody Godless.
Second - the Taliban and Palestinians are not the only ones fighting against american oppression or any oppression and not all use this tactic. You can die in a fight as a hero without taking a bomb. To lose fear of dying doesn't mean to to die under every circumstances. What you told why a Palestinian kills himself I am aware of.
But no tecnological weapon can kill a spirit. And about where I am You do not know - but .Al Hanif - if somebody doesn't have belief you can even go to him and kill thousands of him he won't stop pornography and gay - when somebody has belief you can kill 1000 of him but he won't rejeect belief.
You cannot win against the beliefless, liars and worshippers of material only with weapon - their uncapability of truth is not genetic(otherwise there would be no difference between us and Turks - as among Turks there are so many armenians, georgians, kurds, arabs and so on). If You like I bring You some examples what I mean?!

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

so called stories about locals supporting drone attacks are fabricated by desperate people,especially the anti muslim camp.

no ghairati pashtun will support attacks on their soil.

In terms of the drone attacks, the US must not make any distinction between al Qaeda and the Taliban. They both have internalised a global ideology that is anti-civilisation and anti-human

There is news coming up in the media that al Qaeda in Waziristan may run away to Yemen in the face of growing drone attacks. The people of Waziristan have expressed deep concern at this news. They do not want al Qaeda to run away from Waziristan. They want al Qaeda along with the Taliban burnt to ashes on the soil of Waziristan through relentless drone attacks. The drone attacks, they believe, are the one and only ‘cure’ for these anti-civilisation creatures and the US must robustly administer them the ‘cure’ until their existence is annihilated from the world. The people of Waziristan, including tribal leaders, women and religious people, asked me to convey in categorical terms to the US the following in my column.

One, your new drone attack strategy is brilliant, i.e. one attack closely followed by another. After the first attack the terrorists cordon off the area and none but the terrorists are allowed on the spot. Another attack at that point kills so many of them. Excellent! Keep it up!

Your drone technology has the full capacity to encircle and eliminate al Qaeda and the Taliban in Waziristan. If you fail to do so and al Qaeda manages to run away to Yemen or any other place, it could only happen in two cases: either you are highly incompetent people or you have ulterior motives.

The people who have established one of the world’s most vibrant democracies and have taken science and technology to a new zenith cannot be highly incompetent. Now the only possibility is that you have ulterior motives, which could facilitate al Qaeda’s escape from Waziristan.

In a sense the ISI of Pakistan and the CIA of the US share a sinister reputation: both use fanatic Islamists to promote strategic goals. The Taliban are the strategic assets of the ISI and al Qaeda of the CIA. Terrorised people in FATA believe that the ISI would never eliminate the Taliban for the sake of strategic depth in Afghanistan and countless people across the Muslim world believe that al Qaeda is a CIA invention to trigger chaos in Muslim lands and hence create excuses for the US to control natural resources such as oil and gas in those lands. There is also a perception in FATA and the rest of Pakistan that the US is especially going soft on Islamists from the restive Muslim areas of China. Those Islamists would be used to destabilise China, the emerging rival to the US in world politics.

Here in Waziristan the US has a good opportunity to prove to the Muslim world that it is indeed serious in eliminating al Qaeda. The escape of al Qaeda from Waziristan to Yemen or any other Muslim country would communicate the message that the US is an imperial power that just ‘relocates’ its strategic assets from one Muslim society to another only to destabilise them and hence paves the way for US military intervention in those areas.

In terms of the drone attacks, the US must not make any distinction between al Qaeda and the Taliban. They both have internalised a global ideology that is anti-civilisation and anti-human. They will keep coming back to strike at civilisations — Islamic, Western, Confucian or Indian. The sooner the world gets rid of them the better.

This was the view of the people of Waziristan. I would now draw the attention of the US to the Peshawar Declaration, a joint statement of political parties, civil society organisations, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, teachers, students, labourers and intellectuals, following a conference on December 12-13, 2009, in Peshawar. The declaration notes that if the people of the war-affected areas are satisfied with any counter-militancy strategy; it is drone attacks that they support the most. Some people in Waziristan compare drones with the Quran’s Ababeels — the holy sparrows sent by God to avenge Abraham, the intended conqueror of the Khana Kaaba. Which other Muslim society has likened anything from the US military with a Quranic symbol? Only the Pakhtuns did that so publicly in this time of rising anti-Americanism across the Muslim world! What more does the US want from a Muslim society? Now please go ahead and do the needful as indicated by the people of Waziristan.

The overpowered people of Waziristan are angry. They believe no one in their entire history has inflicted so much insult on them as al Qaeda. In our native land, they say, al Qaeda has killed so many of us. Anyone in the world who has gone mad in the name of religion has come to occupy our land. They are Arabs, Central Asians, Caucasians and Africans. They are people with black, brown, blue and green eyes. They are brown, black and white. They all have chosen our land for their sinister designs against all civilisations. No self-respecting people, they argue, can accept this situation.

The ball is now in the US’s court. Their action or inaction against the terrorists in Waziristan would either confirm their image in the Muslim world as an imperial power destabilising Muslim societies in the name of the war on terror or would challenge that image, at least in FATA and the NWFP, the Muslim society on the frontline of the war on terror. The people of Waziristan hope the US challenges that image through the elimination of all terrorists — al Qaeda or the Taliban — in Waziristan.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Author: Farhat Taj Afridi (from FATA)..


She has also written a book on the issue, in which she uses the same argument.

This research is of primary nature and draws on over 2000 face-to-face
interviews, discussions and seminars with people across FATA and the
Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province. These interviews with people from
various walks of life, were conducted over a period of more than two
years. The informants include men and women, lettered and unlettered,
rich and poor, Muslim and non-Muslim (in particular Sikh residents of
FATA).

[Soldat_Amir]

In terms of the drone attacks, the US must not make any distinction between al Qaeda and the Taliban. They both have internalised a global ideology that is anti-civilisation and anti-human

There is news coming up in the media that al Qaeda in Waziristan may run away to Yemen in the face of growing drone attacks. The people of Waziristan have expressed deep concern at this news. They do not want al Qaeda to run away from Waziristan. They want al Qaeda along with the Taliban burnt to ashes on the soil of Waziristan through relentless drone attacks. The drone attacks, they believe, are the one and only ‘cure’ for these anti-civilisation creatures and the US must robustly administer them the ‘cure’ until their existence is annihilated from the world. The people of Waziristan, including tribal leaders, women and religious people, asked me to convey in categorical terms to the US the following in my column.

One, your new drone attack strategy is brilliant, i.e. one attack closely followed by another. After the first attack the terrorists cordon off the area and none but the terrorists are allowed on the spot. Another attack at that point kills so many of them. Excellent! Keep it up!

Your drone technology has the full capacity to encircle and eliminate al Qaeda and the Taliban in Waziristan. If you fail to do so and al Qaeda manages to run away to Yemen or any other place, it could only happen in two cases: either you are highly incompetent people or you have ulterior motives.

The people who have established one of the world’s most vibrant democracies and have taken science and technology to a new zenith cannot be highly incompetent. Now the only possibility is that you have ulterior motives, which could facilitate al Qaeda’s escape from Waziristan.

In a sense the ISI of Pakistan and the CIA of the US share a sinister reputation: both use fanatic Islamists to promote strategic goals. The Taliban are the strategic assets of the ISI and al Qaeda of the CIA. Terrorised people in FATA believe that the ISI would never eliminate the Taliban for the sake of strategic depth in Afghanistan and countless people across the Muslim world believe that al Qaeda is a CIA invention to trigger chaos in Muslim lands and hence create excuses for the US to control natural resources such as oil and gas in those lands. There is also a perception in FATA and the rest of Pakistan that the US is especially going soft on Islamists from the restive Muslim areas of China. Those Islamists would be used to destabilise China, the emerging rival to the US in world politics.

Here in Waziristan the US has a good opportunity to prove to the Muslim world that it is indeed serious in eliminating al Qaeda. The escape of al Qaeda from Waziristan to Yemen or any other Muslim country would communicate the message that the US is an imperial power that just ‘relocates’ its strategic assets from one Muslim society to another only to destabilise them and hence paves the way for US military intervention in those areas.

In terms of the drone attacks, the US must not make any distinction between al Qaeda and the Taliban. They both have internalised a global ideology that is anti-civilisation and anti-human. They will keep coming back to strike at civilisations — Islamic, Western, Confucian or Indian. The sooner the world gets rid of them the better.

This was the view of the people of Waziristan. I would now draw the attention of the US to the Peshawar Declaration, a joint statement of political parties, civil society organisations, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, teachers, students, labourers and intellectuals, following a conference on December 12-13, 2009, in Peshawar. The declaration notes that if the people of the war-affected areas are satisfied with any counter-militancy strategy; it is drone attacks that they support the most. Some people in Waziristan compare drones with the Quran’s Ababeels — the holy sparrows sent by God to avenge Abraham, the intended conqueror of the Khana Kaaba. Which other Muslim society has likened anything from the US military with a Quranic symbol? Only the Pakhtuns did that so publicly in this time of rising anti-Americanism across the Muslim world! What more does the US want from a Muslim society? Now please go ahead and do the needful as indicated by the people of Waziristan.

The overpowered people of Waziristan are angry. They believe no one in their entire history has inflicted so much insult on them as al Qaeda. In our native land, they say, al Qaeda has killed so many of us. Anyone in the world who has gone mad in the name of religion has come to occupy our land. They are Arabs, Central Asians, Caucasians and Africans. They are people with black, brown, blue and green eyes. They are brown, black and white. They all have chosen our land for their sinister designs against all civilisations. No self-respecting people, they argue, can accept this situation.

The ball is now in the US’s court. Their action or inaction against the terrorists in Waziristan would either confirm their image in the Muslim world as an imperial power destabilising Muslim societies in the name of the war on terror or would challenge that image, at least in FATA and the NWFP, the Muslim society on the frontline of the war on terror. The people of Waziristan hope the US challenges that image through the elimination of all terrorists — al Qaeda or the Taliban — in Waziristan.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

Author: Farhat Taj Afridi (from FATA)..


She has also written a book on the issue, in which she uses the same argument.

This research is of primary nature and draws on over 2000 face-to-face
interviews, discussions and seminars with people across FATA and the
Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa province. These interviews with people from
various walks of life, were conducted over a period of more than two
years. The informants include men and women, lettered and unlettered,
rich and poor, Muslim and non-Muslim (in particular Sikh residents of
FATA).

Lewnay, my aunty, the sister of my mother, who happens to be a IDP too, told me, that in Badar Village in South Waziristan, a group of Uzbeks under the Islamic movement of Uzbekistan, beheaded two Maseed boys, aged 9 and 11, infront of all the villagers, everyone were begging the militants to pardon the two boys who were killed because they threw stones at the militants.

I guess graveyard and others, would consider anyone who supports such brutal acts as ghariatmand people, people such as graveyard do not understand the current situation of the Pashtun people, he lives in a fantasy of Taliban fighters fighting for Pashtun rights and a Loy Afghanistan with assistance from Arabs,Uzbeks, Chechens, Blacks and Punjabis who have a global Jihadi Ummah cause, makes no sense, well thats what you refer to as an inexperience individual.

Graveyard follows his own emotions and hasnt realistically been or seen the region he proposes to be a expert on.

Taliban is a Pro Pak organisation, Taliban wants to establish a Islami emeritie with Pakistan being the centre core of its administration. Taliban is aligned to other movements, that contradict Pashtun Rights and Pashtuns self determination to a Pashtunistan, the Taliban movement, consists of all Non Pashtuns too, with a ideology that unites them, and rest assured its not Afghan/Pashtun rights or a Pashtunistan state.

Graveyard considers the same people who slaughter innocent Pashtuns as ghairatmand, as if he hasnt had his relative beheaded or blown up due to fanatical Arabs, hes living in cosy west sleeping in his cosy bed, while Pashtuns from Waziristan sleep on the dusty roads of Tank and DI Khan, while their homes are occupied by "Jihadi families from the West, Central Asia, Africa and Middle East".

The Drones are a blessing. They are truely sent from above. If given the chance, I would like to shake the hand of the controller of the drone, and thank him/her for eliminating all those Alqueda/Taliban terrorists who terrorise the locals on a daily basis.

Mordabad to Pak ISI strategic depth.

[JAMALUDEEN]

Lewnay, my aunty, the sister of my mother, who happens to be a IDP too, told me, that in Badar Village in South Waziristan, a group of Uzbeks under the Islamic movement of Uzbekistan, beheaded two Maseed boys, aged 9 and 11, infront of all the villagers, everyone were begging the militants to pardon the two boys who were killed because they threw stones at the militants.

I guess graveyard and others, would consider anyone who supports such brutal acts as ghariatmand people, people such as graveyard do not understand the current situation of the Pashtun people, he lives in a fantasy of Taliban fighters fighting for Pashtun rights and a Loy Afghanistan with assistance from Arabs,Uzbeks, Chechens, Blacks and Punjabis who have a global Jihadi Ummah cause, makes no sense, well thats what you refer to as an inexperience individual.

Graveyard follows his own emotions and hasnt realistically been or seen the region he proposes to be a expert on.

Taliban is a Pro Pak organisation, Taliban wants to establish a Islami emeritie with Pakistan being the centre core of its administration. Taliban is aligned to other movements, that contradict Pashtun Rights and Pashtuns self determination to a Pashtunistan, the Taliban movement, consists of all Non Pashtuns too, with a ideology that unites them, and rest assured its not Afghan/Pashtun rights or a Pashtunistan state.

Graveyard considers the same people who slaughter innocent Pashtuns as ghairatmand, as if he hasnt had his relative beheaded or blown up due to fanatical Arabs, hes living in cosy west sleeping in his cosy bed, while Pashtuns from Waziristan sleep on the dusty roads of Tank and DI Khan, while their homes are occupied by "Jihadi families from the West, Central Asia, Africa and Middle East".

The Drones are a blessing. They are truely sent from above. If given the chance, I would like to shake the hand of the controller of the drone, and thank him/her for eliminating all those Alqueda/Taliban terrorists who terrorise the locals on a daily basis.

Mordabad to Pak ISI strategic depth.

maybe next time you visit waziristan, a drone will bless you too...

of course an accident.. on their part.

[Levanaye Zalmaye]

lewanay and soldat are perverted liars.
they supported the genocide of pashtuns because they are non muslims and pashtuns are muslims.
these people are the problem we pashtuns are facing,they think killing pashtuns is actually saving civilisation,in other words pashtun civilisation and people should be slaughtered so western culture can be upheld.

these people are despicable and PF should be ashamed to be hosting such evil people.

I am not calling for the murder innocent Pashtuns.

I wholeheartedly support the removal of these ISI-backed Arabs, Uzbeks, Punjabis and Wahabi-cultist Pashtuns from FATA who have destroyed the lives of the peaceful tribesmen there, who have brought death and destruction to these peaceful and brave people, who have rendered them powerless and homeless in their own homeland.

It is unfortunately that some civilians get caught up in these drones but given that more than 2,000 terrorists, mostly foreigners, and only 138 civilians have died in these attacks, I'm all for them.

By the way, Bachaa Khan was also against these foreign fighters. He was even against the Soviet "Jihad". Will you also curse him?

[graveyardofempires]

This is how these people want our people to be treated in attempt to rid them fo their culture and religion and above all handing over their country.
The truth that Pakistan does not want you to see - YouTube
Pashtun Speaks of the way Pakistan army treats Pashtuns in Waziristan - YouTube
Pakistan is arresting and torturing innocent Pashtuns in Waziristan - YouTube
Pashtuns expose the truth about Pakistan army - YouTube

[Soldat_Amir]

maybe next time you visit waziristan, a drone will bless you too...

of course an accident.. on their part.

For your kind information, most of South Waziristan has fled and live in tents/camps in Tank and DI Khan in Pakhtunkhwa.

Hope fully I will visit, once the vermin, ISI stooges and Alqueda Arabs with their Afghan traitors are blown away into dust.

I hope that makes sense if it doesnt, then why dont you transfer all the Arab terrorists to your house in America/Canada, and let a drone pay you a visit.

[Soldat_Amir]

This is how these people want our people to be treated in attempt to rid them fo their culture and religion and above all handing over their country.
The truth that Pakistan does not want you to see - YouTube
Pashtun Speaks of the way Pakistan army treats Pashtuns in Waziristan - YouTube
Pakistan is arresting and torturing innocent Pashtuns in Waziristan - YouTube
Pashtuns expose the truth about Pakistan army - YouTube

You see how gullable you truely are.

I MADE THOSE VIDEOS HAHA!

Pashtundefence is my account, those videos were taken before the operations began under Musharaff, I revisited the region in 2009, and absolutely changed my view of things, when I saw Punjabis,Chechens,Arabs and other Non Pashtun flith, check posting every corner of South Waziristan, you ever been to Wana or Miram Shah Bazaar?

If you do go, you will realise why Drones exist.

[graveyardofempires]

^
making those videos is the only good thing you did and your videos speak against you.
but as you are trying to cover the truth of my people with your random lies,it seems you couldnt hide these videos and the content.

[ScimitarXEdge]

how do you know it is deliberate? Can you show evidence?

or you are an omnipotent being who can read the intentions of people half way around the world, with whom you have absolutely no contact at all.

Also you show that if ANA deliberately kills Muslims, then it is acceptable murder...

If people go to place knowing they're civilians there and they're letting off explosives, what else can it be? It'd be like someone driving their SUV into a crowd saying he only meant to kill a cockroach (like yourself). You trying to hide behind the "Are you God card?", is nonsense, humans have brains, they have the ability to reason and learn things by inference. Being God doesn't factor into the equation.

Furthermore such an argument would backfire, how do you know the ANA intends to murder civilian? Maybe like the Taliban they were just trying to get the "bad guys" and civilians were an unintended consequence? You would agree such an argument is absurd right? Then why make special pleading for the Taliban? The collateral damage argument is a logically fallacious doctrine, as if you know your actions will cause damage , then the wilfull desire to do so, means deliberate action. Simple reason.

I don't need to show anything, because nothing you're asking me is something I claim, so it's moot point. When I don't call NATO or their allies evil, then you can ask me that question

[Toramana]

The drone is the only answer to these terrorists. I myself met many homeless families from Waziristan now living in Charssada plus many families from Bajuar living in Peshawar suburbs. The abject conditions in which they live will sadden you.