Who Kills more? Taliban or NATO/ISAF

[ScimitarXEdge]

I said I wouldn't answer to you but since you are a funny munafiq. I'll answer to you, just to go deeper and to expose your bull****.

You say that all the time; but you answer because I know how to expose your arguments as false by using the Shari'ah and that scares you because you can no longer blackmail people by distorting Islam. I know more about Islam than you do so I can easily identify all your inconsistencies and use Islamic proofs.

HAHAHA. Talibans do not oppose tha Shari'ah because Scholars like Mollah Omar and Shaikh Usama Bin Laden promoted them and Ulamas did not label them as heretics.

Neither Mullah Umar or Usama Bin Laden are Scholars

Shayikh Salih Al Fawzan called him a Khariji, which is a heretic

Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan (Head of the Permanent Committee of Scholars of the Salafee Scholars in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia) also warned of the dangers of this revolutionary call when he said,
"...and Bin Laadin, who was also ungrateful, deviated from the path of the People of the Sunnah to the methodology of the Khawarij, and began to spread chaos and turmoil in the earth, and circulating corruption, but your Lord lies in wait of him and his kind."[16]

Mullah Umar never finished his studies in Islamic Fiqh, so he's not a Scholar at all.

Asia Times Online - The trusted source for news on Central Asia

Non-students who did not resist the Taliban movement and accepted its command. They were later given different positions during the Taliban regime. Most of them had doubts about the leadership of a man who had not completed his studies (Mullah Omar), and when the Taliban regime collapsed they chose to move quietly to the Pakistani tribal areas

If you think evolution is true, then you can distort anything in Islam and you can use Islam as a tool. Truly, you are a munafiq. There is no doubt about it. I double dare you to go to your local mosque and tell people evolution is true.

Muslims have long known about evolution; Muslim scientists like Al-Jahiz and Al-Nazzam figured out evolution and no Ulama ever called them heretic; so your argument is false.

Here is the proof right here.
Salaam Knowledge

So this is what you actually believe ? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Kadhafi is muslim, Salman Rushdie is muslim. Ayatollah Khomeyni is muslim. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is muslim. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. You don't know **** about Islam. You are funny.

So you're saying that innocent women and children who have done nothing wrong getting killed by Taliban bombing are not Muslim?

Astaghfiruallah 2ita8u billah

Really ? I am proud of them. Those "innocent muslims" are policemen, munafiqs like you, who help and fight with the kuffar. They deserve to be beheaded.

So women and children and people on the street are police men? You've proven that you're an Apostate of Islam and will go to hell forever Allah(swt) will send Moroccans and other Berbers to destroy you Insha2 Allah. You're not a Muslim anymore so your life is not protected.

[ScimitarXEdge]

an i already wrote my post when you lose your loved ones it pushes you off edge when your women get raped your children blown apart used as collectors items by kafirs , poverty your homes blown apart your world turned upside down , when you cant fight drones devils with high powered equipment when you see that your going to die anyway or your children will get murdered and your wifes will be raped by perverts in Government and Nato you lose it, when you have no hope left when all you can see is dark and no way out its been 11 years of hell you turn to suicide.

But is that an excuse in Islam to go murder other Muslims yes or no?
Will a person who commits suicide enter jannah or jahanam according to the Qur'an?

Alchemist wror is a great scholar i respect him dosn't matter what anyone calls i have high respect for him.
[/B]

But he has no Islamic knowledge how can he be a scholar?

[CharlieChaplin]

Why do Palestinians do suicide bombing?

Why did the Japanese innovate with the Kamikaze attacks?

Why did the US war with Afghanistan in 1998? 2001- present?

Why did the US war with Lebanon?

Why did the US war with Vietnam?

Why did the US war with Korea?

Why did the US war with Cambodia?

Why did the US war with Somalia?

Why did the US war with Iraq in 1991, 1998(carpet bombing), and then 2003?

Why did the US support the creation of an illegal Israeli state?

Why did the US hatch the plot to remove Mossadeq?

Why did the US drop the atomic bomb on Japan?

Why did the US drop napalm bombs on Vietnam?

Why did the US participate in the mass rape of German women post second world war?


For every action, there is a reaction.

Reactions will continue to occur with greater intensity to restore the natural equilibrium.

[retro]

Look at this child, from a refugee camp in Kabul. Where is the US trying to win "hearts and minds"? Only thing they have brought is military offensives in their districts, which only makes their lives worse.

Sadly 30 years of war have very seriously undermined Afghanistans socioeconomic and cultral development.

The Wests Zionist poltical class and their Islamist cronies aren't to be trusted. As they certainly aren't working for either your peoples intrests or mine, but rather their own.

[Soldat_Amir]

Some people on here from the West just cant accept the fact that using child to become suicide bombers for political purposes and to defame Islam is wrong. Kakargirl, have you ever been to Afghanistan or Pakhtunkhwa, lived under the Taliban or actually ventured out of that council house of yours in the UK and seen reality, you ever seen the mass number of bodies on the ground at a vollyballl match in lakki marwat, no you havnt, but when have people been experts on Pashtun issues when they have not even interacted nor have any experience within the region.

[Alchemist]

****mitar keeps saying that Al Jahiz "Figured out evolution" but this is a lie and I exposed it.
Only a few pages of the original manual of Al Jahiz has survived and no where in it did he endorse a "gradual change". Rather ****mitar is quoting a paraphrased distortion of the original script that reads that variation exists in the animal kingdom. However on closer examination of the manual Al Jahiz denies that one species of animal may arise from another since he believed that Allah created everything complete with due proportion...so he rejected the labelling of animals as morphs of two.

Then ****mitar makes the argument that Mullah Omar and Osama are not scholars of Islam but then he arrogantly claims that he knows Islam better than everyone else here ...when in fact he hasn't even stepped inside an Islamic institution for gaining even an ounce of Knowledge and learned everything from wikipedia.com.

He is making the argument that suicide bombing as a tactic makes the jihad of the Afghans against ISAF invalid ..and the jihad of the phalasitinees against the zionist invalid also. But in 10 years of the wars there has been a total of 150 suicide bombings in AFghanistan... but this douchebag doesn't even offer an alternative tactic...and whatever valid actions they have taken he doesn't even acknowledge.

In conclusion ****mitar is a douchebag.

[Soldat_Amir]

Where do you guys get this deluded claim of the resistance being mainly of villagers posing as Taliban or Taliban hijacking the real resistance.

Non-sense.

There is no real resistance against the Afghan government, there is Taliban(ISI) and Alqueda and there is the Afghan government.

Inexperienced folk with no knowledge would utter such terrible non-sense, if there was a peoples resistance in Afghanistan, no street in Afghanistan would be safe for Nato and Afghan forces.

As a matter of fact, MOST ATTACKS ARE HIT AND RUN. Taliban ambush convoys, lay IED's, hide amongst the civilians, and then run off to Pakistan on their scooters/4 by 4's.

What kind of resistance is that, and why do Taliban ALWAYS run off to Pakistan, why dont the VILLAGERS protect them?

Its a well known fact, Taliban recover their losses/strength by hiding in Karachi,Peshawer,Waziristan, Quetta, Rawalpindi, why not Kabul,Kandahar, Paktia, Khost etc etc etc.

[kakargirl]

^The facts mm just spent 3 months in Helmand the bloodiest place where peoples resistant has grown so much and i don't blame them i don't even know how they live ,the so called taliban resisting now are someones sons nephews fathers grandfathers,son in laws most don't even have any knowledge of islam but were farmers but anger hate makes you resist your children dieing your parents your family your land detstroyed poverty water supplys destroyed women raped in their own home 11 years of constant drones falling on your heads ,so soldat maybe you wouldn't care if your family got murdered by Nato or your women raped ,but me i know what it would turn me in to now after this no comment from me as its useless right now my heads worried about someone my phone calls not going through to family so my heads a little insane right now.

[kakargirl]

But is that an excuse in Islam to go murder other Muslims yes or no?
Will a person who commits suicide enter jannah or jahanam according to the Qur'an?



But he has no Islamic knowledge how can he be a scholar?

I'm nobody to say what Allah swt will do , but yes hell has been promised to suicidal people in Quran.

[ScimitarXEdge]

Alchemist You're quite the genius you know that? NOT

How can Bin Laden and Mullah Omar be scholars when neither have ever graduated from an Islamic Seminary with an 'Alim degree. Can someone be a scholar without any affirmed learning?

When did you debunked the claim of Al-Jahiz? Oh yeah you used someone's commentary from a Wikipedia-style User created Wikisite, I see, that's not debunking that's just using that's just using a dubious uncited commentary.


Alternative tactic , fight like men, with guns and ONLY NATO soldiers and Combatants; that's what Muhammd(saw) would do, but alas following Islam wouldn't be important to you would it? You have no moral qualms about Becoming apart of the Zionist run Fast food Industry and selling Pork and making harram profit.

[kakargirl]

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[ATTACH]5875[/ATTACH]look at how happy people are all over afghanistan look at the happy protesters in kabul , yes they are thanking nato ,have some shame the ones that haven't lost families ,have some remorse and feel what these people are feeling people cant fight drones, these are people not animals, so think what will these people become , yes of course resistant fighters normal people picking up guns i know the west is saying pick up beat not guns so they can kill more easily,i repeat normal people are picking up guns oh and the picture you can see big trench dug out is a big mass grave yard, and the men with shovels are men burring villagers.

[tor_khan]

In cease you didn't hear the news ...

Bacha Khan failed ... miserably.

These so called intellectuals who preach about "turn the other cheek" finally get the boot so hard to their face that they have to run off to the mountains and join "the blood thirsty savages".

Those who preach non violence just put themselves at the mercy of the colonialist and hope that they will spared.

"Fresh perspective"... very funny!

You people are so brainwashed!

You actually believe that 9/11 was carried out by OBL from tora bora?
You believe that Al-Qaida is a real "Terrorist Organization"?

This is exactly why you people are so brainwashed - Hollywood!
All those movies about James Bond infiltrating shadowy secret terrorist organization that are hell bent on global "jihad". There is no freakin global Jihad.

Levanay is an atheist white washed patsy and all you who agree with him are the same - patsies.

Do I have to remind you guys that the war was waged on Afghanistan UNPROVOKED!
Not the few hundreds of Arabs in Afghanistan, not even Mullah Omar had ever shot a bullet at ANY american. It is a fact that American envoys, CIA operatives roamed Afghanistan all through out the civil wars. Stop telling everyone here that the Americans were "provoked" by "Taliban"...by "arabs"...by pakistanies. America has an unbroken record of premptive war. Yet you guys are stupid enough to sit here and pander the same propaganda that the white house uses? Why did the insurgency pick up until after 2003 when in 2001 the US claimed victory? The question of who kills more is a very important one. The reason why the insurgency picked up later was because for 2 years after their declaration of victory the Americans kept continuously harrasing the people of Afghanistan. The insurgency gained momentum as a result of the bombings, the night raids and the torture of civilians. You are a fool for thinking that the cycle of violence will stop when the pashtuns, the talibans, and muslims in general stop fighting. The Islamic Ummah laid its weapon down with that hope that you have for peace back in 1914. Since that day our situation has gotten worse and worse and worse. There was no resistance fighters in Afghanistan in 2002, but still the Americans went hunting for them...still they killed innocent Afghans. And I know for a fact that if the Taliban stop fighting ..and everyone turns into Bacha Khan...the Americans will continue to bomb Afghanistan. They will make up any excuse they want to bomb any part of the world and this fact - where there is resistance or not, they will drop bombs. You think they poured concrete at their base near bagram because they anticipated a short stay?

This is the clearest sign of why the intellectuals of a colonized society always fail to support any national, genuine uprising.

Lewanay doesn't know jack **** about Jihad or Islam and everything he says comes from CNN and BBC. You brainwashed patsies clap for him because it resonates with the same mantra that has been drummed into your ears for ages and call it "fact".

Jihad is a way of life that is compulsory on every Muslim. You keyboard warriors, half muslims (including myself) don't act on it...but DON'T rationalize your inaction. Don't give me this b.s about Bacha Khan creating social welfare systems and promoting education ...then having his schools closed down and sent to prison..what reformation did he bring about? What change did he bring to Pashtuns when today majority of pashtuns in Pakistan don't even speak pashto. What is left of his legacy today? To the victor goes the spoils.

Spare me the ghandi mantra...it is only a placebo created for cowards.

Some people may get to that point of emotional exhaustion whereby they seemingly choose from two options. One would be a violent response, and one would be a peaceful response.

The Bacha Khan type of resistance is not about instant results. Whether we are going to call Bacha Khan a failure or not, what is acknowledged is that he drew his strength from Islam. He carried the Qu'ran on his person and and he was by all accounts a deeply committed Muslim. May Allah be pleased with him.

I haven't surveyed whether the majority of Pashtoons in Pakistan speak Pashto or not. You obviously appear to know something more and have presented it here as a fact, but that's beside the point. Bacha Khan's remaining friends were India and Afghanistan and his legacy - which I agree was watered down - haunted Pakistan and so it wasn't allowed to remain. Hence the organised deconstruction of everything he stood for.

As for the option of armed resistance. We Pashtoons have done that and it has paid off so there's merit in that argument too. However, few would choose war as their first option. Did the Americans/NATO wreck the chance of a lasting peace by their invasion of Afghanistan? Yes. They absolutely made a mess and people are justifiably angry. To that extent I completely understand why there is an insurgency/resistance.

What has happened over the recent past is that our cause has been hijacked by others and we appear not be serving interests that benefit ourselves. Just look at the quality of life of Pashtoons in Afghanistan or in Pakistan. For more than thirty years we've been at war. With that many dead, wounded and damaged sons and daughters and with entire families/villages displaced, we're a traumatised and easily exploited people. Our emotions are easily manipulated.

We also have to be clear about our objectives. Is this an all-out Jihad between Muslims and non-Muslims? Or between some Muslims and some non-Muslims? If there is an option for peace, would you take it? Or if we are prepared to engage in an epic fight till the last man is standing? In that case forget your non-Pashto speaking Pashtoons in Pakistan, there will no Pashtoons to speak of.

At the moment, the future appears mixed, and at its worst rather bleak. Allah knows best and may Allah protect us all.

[emkhan]

The Munafiq is the one who contradicts the Shari'ah right?

By the way I didn't say fighting NATO or Imperialism is wrong, it's required; but does that mean you can kill Muslim civilians?

No one is supporting the killings of the Muslim civilians. The war you want them to fight is the war of swords where one strike hits one guy where there is no chance of collateral damage.
But unfortunately modern weapons and modern technology have created means of more sufferings for the human beings.
When you fall or strike a bomb, the high chances are to kill non militant civilians.
Now when a NATO copter hit a village in search of a talib then more civilians are killed and the same way when a talib try to hit some military vehicle then there are more chances that civilians will be hit. The situation is unavoidable.
Now you have to see the intentions of the both parties.
The intentions of the NATO is clear, they kill innocents to create fear and try to prove they have killed the militants.

[ScimitarXEdge]

No one is supporting the killings of the Muslim civilians. The war you want them to fight is the war of swords where one strike hits one guy where there is no chance of collateral damage.
But unfortunately modern weapons and modern technology have created means of more sufferings for the human beings.
When you fall or strike a bomb, the high chances are to kill non militant civilians.
Now when a NATO copter hit a village in search of a talib then more civilians are killed and the same way when a talib try to hit some military vehicle then there are more chances that civilians will be hit. The situation is unavoidable.
Now you have to see the intentions of the both parties.
The intentions of the NATO is clear, they kill innocents to create fear and try to prove they have killed the militants.

Not supporting the killing of Muslim civilians? But you're supporting the group that kills Muslim civilians? Yes I know NATO kills Muslim civilians, but so do the Taliban. This contradicts the Shari'ah, just because kufar are wrong is no excuse for a Muslim to do wrong EVER. We have a higher standard.It's avoidable ...wait till you're in a place where no civilians are around THEN attack. That's the way to avoid. Don't you have common sense?

The Taliban also kill civilians to create fear

read for yourself

Refugee Cooperation - Publications - Afghanistan : "Protracted Displacement in Afghanistan Can Be Mitigated by a Change in Policy " by Jacob Rothing.

Human rights abuses perpetrated by the Taliban have also caused large numbers of small-scale displacements, particularly in the southeast, south, and central regions. The Taliban intimidate, harass, and kill tribal elders, government officials, civilians working for international forces, teachers, health care workers, shopkeepers and the staff of Afghan and international NGOs. [8] They also target and displace members of minority Shi‘a groups. [9]
International actors’ role

[emkhan]

Your problem is you consider yourself above all.
I am not picking incidents, I am looking at the main thought behind this war.
One party's intentions are dirty and want suppress others. The other party wants to free a nation, kick out the oppressors and wants to establish a system of Islam and justice.