Who Kills more? Taliban or NATO/ISAF

[emkhan]

Hizbi Islami KHalis fight NATO without suicide bombs, why can't the Taliban?

so your problem is suicide bombing... The rest fine ?

[ScimitarXEdge]

[B]Helmand handover: 'People are happy the foreigners are leavinT]

You didn't answer my question

so when NATO kills Muslims, does that mean it's ok for taliban to kill Muslims?


simple yes or n will suffice

[ScimitarXEdge]

so your problem is suicide bombing... The rest fine ?

And assassinations without proper official public trial; and their laws are not acceptable by Shari'ah

[ScimitarXEdge]

so your problem is suicide bombing... The rest fine ?

by the way can you answer my questions directly from now on


Hizbi Islami Khalis fight without suicide attacks, why can't the Taliban?

[Al Hanif]

So in Islam, you can kill Muslims because they're in your country

You can. If it wasn't your intention. What matters is your intention.

....where does it say this in shari'ah?

It is said in Surah 2 Verse 191. Oppression is worse than slaughter.

You have two choices : either you support the "evil" Talibans (who are involuntarily slaughtering civilians) or you don't support Talibans (thus prefer living in oppression) which is a greater "evil" and a greater sin.

I'd go for the lesser evil.

[emkhan]

And assassinations without proper official public trial; and their laws are not acceptable by Shari'ah

You are a big munafiq of 21st century ... You will never let Muslims fight against the oppressors... You always point out things to stop them from fighting.
You like paid mullahs love serve oppressors.
You always skip the main questions and start new things when you are busted.
There is a difference between deliberate killings and collateral damage...
You have to see the intentions behind a war and not the actions if the actions are not bigger than the intentions.
America is a satanic power. They want to run the world on their own will especially the Muslims world because this is the only people who are making hurdles in the way of the dajjali system which main pillars are secularism, athiethism, materialism. please tell me which department are you working for ?

[Al Hanif]

And assassinations without proper official public trial; and their laws are not acceptable by Shari'ah

Talibans are better than anything else in Afghanistan. If you reject them and their interpretation of Sharia, you have to bring something better. You have to show me a better group. I wait.

[ScimitarXEdge]

You can. If it wasn't your intention. What matters is your intention.

so then NATO uses this excuse too; so you're using excuse of the kufar

Show us in the shari'ah that you can

Nabi (saw) says

On the authority of Ibn Mas’ood (radi allahu ‘anhu1) who said: The Messenger of Allah (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) who said : The Messenger of Allah (Sallallahu alayhi wa sallam2) said :

It is not permissible to spill the blood of a Muslim except in three [instances] : the married person who commits adultery, a life for a life, and the one who forsakes his religion and separates from the community.

It was related by al-Bukhari (صحيح البخاري) and Muslim (صحيح مسلم).

So your argument contradicts the Shari'ah of Islam by the proof of Muhammad(saw)'s Sunnah

It is said in Surah 2 Verse 191. Oppression is worse than slaughter.

You have two choices : either you support the "evil" Talibans (who are involuntarily slaughtering civilians) or you don't support Talibans (thus prefer living in oppression) which is a greater "evil".

I'd go for the lesser evil.

Your taw'il of this verse is wrong, this is what the Tafsir of the Qur'an says.

Altafsir.com - The Tafsirs -

And slay them wherever you come upon them, and expel them from where they expelled you, that is, from Mecca, and this was done after the Conquest of Mecca; sedition, their idolatry, is more grievous, more serious, than slaying, them in the Sacred Enclosure or while in a state of pilgrimage inviolability, the thing that you greatly feared. But fight them not by the Sacred Mosque, that is, in the Sacred Enclosure, until they should fight you there; then if they fight you, there, slay them, there (a variant reading drops the alif in the three verbs [sc. wa-lā taqtilūhum, hattā yaqtulūkum, fa-in qatalūkum, so that the sense is ‘slaying’ in all three, and not just ‘fighting’]) — such, killing and expulsion, is the requital of disbelievers.

This verse is about Killing Kufar, not Muslims; its saying that being Zulum of Kufar is worse than killing them

so your argument contradicts the Shari'ah/

[ScimitarXEdge]

Talibans are better than anything else in Afghanistan. If you reject them and their interpretation of Sharia, you have to bring something better. You have to show me a better group. I wait.

The Sunnah of Nabi(saw) is better than the Taliban. Islam is the better group than the Taliban. The best group are the Muslims, they tried to come to Afghanistan but Taliban prevents them

[ScimitarXEdge]

You are a big munafiq of 21st century ... You will never let Muslims fight against the oppressors... You always point out things to stop them from fighting.
You like paid mullahs love serve oppressors.
You always skip the main questions and start new things when you are busted.
There is a difference between deliberate killings and collateral damage...
You have to see the intentions behind a war and not the actions if the actions are not bigger than the intentions.
America is a satanic power. They want to run the world on their own will especially the Muslims world because this is the only people who are making hurdles in the way of the dajjali system which main pillars are secularism, athiethism, materialism. please tell me which department are you working for ?

The Munafiq is the one who contradicts the Shari'ah right?

By the way I didn't say fighting NATO or Imperialism is wrong, it's required; but does that mean you can kill Muslim civilians?

[Al Hanif]

The Sunnah of Nabi(saw) is better than the Taliban. Islam is the better group than the Taliban.

The Sunnah of Nabi(saw) is not a group. Sunnah means prophetic tradition.
Islam is not a group. Islam is a religion.

The best group are the Muslims, they tried to come to Afghanistan but Taliban prevents them

So there are no muslims in Afghanistan ?


Show me a better group than Talibans or shut your mouth once and for all.

[Alchemist]

Thank you Lewaney Zalmey for putting a fresh perspective on this.

Bacha Khan warned the Pashtoons about becoming pawns in other people's political violence and he was right to resist. He showed us that even the most deeply ingrained cycles of violence could be broken and that the only way we're going to make progress was if we chose peace.

At the height of the British crackdown against the Pashtoons in 1930, the Khudai Khidmatgars were 80 thousand strong. Trained, drilled, uniformed ambassadors of peace committed to social welfare programmes, education and self-reliance.

We did lose our nerve and somewhere along the way we caved in. Just look at us now. We are a war-torn, traumatised people. Call it NATO; call it the Taliban; call it Russia, Pakistan or America. We are looking for 'saviours' and have forgotten to rely on our intelligence and instinct. Which side has our interests at heart and which side will bring us peace if not ourselves?

Bacha Khan

In cease you didn't hear the news ...

Bacha Khan failed ... miserably.

These so called intellectuals who preach about "turn the other cheek" finally get the boot so hard to their face that they have to run off to the mountains and join "the blood thirsty savages".

Those who preach non violence just put themselves at the mercy of the colonialist and hope that they will spared.

"Fresh perspective"... very funny!

You people are so brainwashed!

You actually believe that 9/11 was carried out by OBL from tora bora?
You believe that Al-Qaida is a real "Terrorist Organization"?

This is exactly why you people are so brainwashed - Hollywood!
All those movies about James Bond infiltrating shadowy secret terrorist organization that are hell bent on global "jihad". There is no freakin global Jihad.

Levanay is an atheist white washed patsy and all you who agree with him are the same - patsies.

Do I have to remind you guys that the war was waged on Afghanistan UNPROVOKED!
Not the few hundreds of Arabs in Afghanistan, not even Mullah Omar had ever shot a bullet at ANY american. It is a fact that American envoys, CIA operatives roamed Afghanistan all through out the civil wars. Stop telling everyone here that the Americans were "provoked" by "Taliban"...by "arabs"...by pakistanies. America has an unbroken record of premptive war. Yet you guys are stupid enough to sit here and pander the same propaganda that the white house uses? Why did the insurgency pick up until after 2003 when in 2001 the US claimed victory? The question of who kills more is a very important one. The reason why the insurgency picked up later was because for 2 years after their declaration of victory the Americans kept continuously harrasing the people of Afghanistan. The insurgency gained momentum as a result of the bombings, the night raids and the torture of civilians. You are a fool for thinking that the cycle of violence will stop when the pashtuns, the talibans, and muslims in general stop fighting. The Islamic Ummah laid its weapon down with that hope that you have for peace back in 1914. Since that day our situation has gotten worse and worse and worse. There was no resistance fighters in Afghanistan in 2002, but still the Americans went hunting for them...still they killed innocent Afghans. And I know for a fact that if the Taliban stop fighting ..and everyone turns into Bacha Khan...the Americans will continue to bomb Afghanistan. They will make up any excuse they want to bomb any part of the world and this fact - where there is resistance or not, they will drop bombs. You think they poured concrete at their base near bagram because they anticipated a short stay?

This is the clearest sign of why the intellectuals of a colonized society always fail to support any national, genuine uprising.

Lewanay doesn't know jack **** about Jihad or Islam and everything he says comes from CNN and BBC. You brainwashed patsies clap for him because it resonates with the same mantra that has been drummed into your ears for ages and call it "fact".

Jihad is a way of life that is compulsory on every Muslim. You keyboard warriors, half muslims (including myself) don't act on it...but DON'T rationalize your inaction. Don't give me this b.s about Bacha Khan creating social welfare systems and promoting education ...then having his schools closed down and sent to prison..what reformation did he bring about? What change did he bring to Pashtuns when today majority of pashtuns in Pakistan don't even speak pashto. What is left of his legacy today? To the victor goes the spoils.

Spare me the ghandi mantra...it is only a placebo created for cowards.

[Al Hanif]

so then NATO uses this excuse too; so you're using excuse of the kufar

I don't care about what the kuffar says. Their intentions are materialistic : money, power, pride, fame... Taliban's intentions are to please Allah SWT by implementing his laws and fighting the mushrik invaders as He ordained the muslims. How dare you comparing them ? You must be a munafiq to have such point of views.

Show us in the shari'ah that you can

Nabi (saw) says
So your argument contradicts the Shari'ah of Islam by the proof of Muhammad(saw)'s Sunnah

No, it does not. First you have to show me a proof that the people Talibans killed were actually muslims. Then you have to show me that they did it intentionnally. Because if I kill a man with my car in an accident, it is not a murder, it is an accident. And finally, you have to follow what Allah says and go kill invaders to be credible. Because if Talibans are bad for killing muslims and contradicting sharia, you are also bad for not fighting against the invaders. If Talibans are bad, then so are you for the same reasons. So I have no reason to trust your opinion. You are not a Shaykh, you just use hadiths out of context to support your blatant lies.

Your taw'il of this verse is wrong, this is what the Tafsir of the Qur'an says.


This verse is about Killing Kufar, not Muslims; its saying that being Zulum of Kufar is worse than killing them

so your argument contradicts the Shari'ah/

No. Talibans are fighting kuffars, not muslims. Muslims are the victims of American invasion, not of Talibans.

[Alchemist]

The Munafiq is the one who contradicts the Shari'ah right?

By the way I didn't say fighting NATO or Imperialism is wrong, it's required; but does that mean you can kill Muslim civilians?

You have uttered blatant lies about clear passages of the Qur'an...Mr. Heretic.

Don't wag your finger at anyone else...go fix your own aqidah first ...Mr.Apeman. Mr. Agnostic-Theist.

[KingKhan]

I hope everybody hasn't forgotten about the Gulf Of Tonkin, that started the Vietnam was fake. The North Vietnamese didn't destroy the US vessel, it has been confirmed by the US way after the war ended.